Are hospitals required by law to provide cost estimate to patients before surgery ?

[Searat7]

I recently had a very bad experience at a private hospital in Bangkok. I needed laparoscopic surgery to repair a hernia and a small adjacent area. The nurse assured me I would receive estimate in advance but this did not happen. The morning after surgery ( I got back to my room at 2 am) 2 people arrived and told me I needed to sign estimate which I did because I was under influence of morphine. The amount was over 600,000 b and I had no choice but to pay to get out of there. Three weeks ago I met with a manager who told me she would look into my claim ( I want 50% back) but it would take time to investigate and go before a committee. This experience would never happen to a Thai person. Is it a law here that hospital must get patient to sign off on cost estimate IN ADVANCE ?

[observer90210]

If such a requirement exists, it could be void if the patient is a emergency situation and unconscious.

 

Not to mention the racket in all private hospitals in Bangkok and all over the world I may say, where money comes far before any interests of the patient.

Edited October 13, 2023 by observer90210

[Don Chance]

What ha

3 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

If such a requirement exists, it could be void if the patient is a emergency situation and unconscious.

 

Not to mention the racket in all private hospitals in Bangkok and all over the world I may say, where money comes far before any interests of the patient.

What happens if you don't pay or don't have the money?

[Bill97]

OP did not get estimate before operation which he should have.  His mistake and now he blames others.  
 

No law to protect people who do not have common sense.
 

 

[freeworld]

14 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

What ha

What happens if you don't pay or don't have the money?

One absconds. the planned 300 baht tourist fee was first envisaged/touted to pay for that.

 

Just kidding.

Edited October 13, 2023 by freeworld

[terryq]

Quote

This experience would never happen to a Thai person.

On what basis do you allege this?

 

Some private hospitals will try to rip off anybody Thai of Foreign. Plenty of reports.

 

 

[Don Chance]

7 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

OP did not get estimate before operation which he should have.  His mistake and now he blames others.  
 

No law to protect people who do not have common sense.
 

 

I guess you could say the same thing about the hospital if they did not make him pay in advance?

 

I think. if you are on a budget and need medical care got to a government hospital in Thailand will be much cheaper than a private.  Also i see there is a Christian hospital in Bangkok that may do it much cheaper if you have no money.

If you are able and not going to die in 24 hours fly back to your country assuming it is government funded there. 

Another option is fly to India, any major city will have some excellent hospitals which is only 3 hours away from Thailand.

 

"On an average Laparoscopy in Chennai might cost around ₹33,250 - ₹66,500."  ($400-$800)

[mania]

30 minutes ago, Searat7 said:

The nurse assured me I would receive estimate in advance but this did not happen.

That is actually quite amazing in Thailand

Because the first question any Thai hospital has before they do anything is ....How are you going to pay?

 

 

 

[Don Chance]

2 minutes ago, terryq said:

On what basis do you allege this?

 

Some private hospitals will try to rip off anybody Thai of Foreign. Plenty of reports.

 

 

If the tourism department wants to do something useful then make medical insurance mandatory for travelers. They can have a online kiosk or booth at the airport like some other countries do. This would save a lot of heart ache.

[KannikaP]

8 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

Another option is fly to India, any major city will have some excellent hospitals which is only 3 hours away from Thailand.

I need gall bladder removal. Went online after reading that India was cheaper. NO! Twice the price of my local Government University Hospital, who ask that I deposit Bht 50k before the job, and I should get some of that back. Plus flight, visa and hotel in India. 

[The Fugitive]

14 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

If the tourism department wants to do something useful then make medical insurance mandatory for travelers. They can have a online kiosk or booth at the airport like some other countries do. This would save a lot of heart ache.

Government regulated to provide treatment in Government hospitals. With a choice of insurance for treatment in private hospitals too. Question would be what happens to tourists who have been reckless e.g. riding hired motos without licence or helmet or taking an alcohol/substance fuelled dive off hotel balconies?  

[Mike Lister]

14 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I need gall bladder removal. Went online after reading that India was cheaper. NO! Twice the price of my local Government University Hospital, who ask that I deposit Bht 50k before the job, and I should get some of that back. Plus flight, visa and hotel in India. 

University Hospital in Pits is very good, our niece is at Uni. there so a regular visitor

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, Searat7 said:

Is it a law here that hospital must get patient to sign off on cost estimate IN ADVANCE ?

Yes, especially when they have to wake up an unconscious one and ask them if they agree ????

[Eff1n2ret]

1 hour ago, Searat7 said:

The amount was over 600,000 b

That seems very excessive. Perhaps we're not comparing like for like but from memory I paid around 30k baht to get an umbilical hernia fixed at the Bangkok Rayong Hospital about 5 years ago. That was with local anaesthetic.

[bang saen guy]

48 minutes ago, mania said:

That is actually quite amazing in Thailand

Because the first question any Thai hospital has before they do anything is ....How are you going to pay?

 

 

 

My last surgery, payment was made in advance

[retarius]

The estimate is worthless anyway. If they estimate;mate 100,000 and charge you 200,000  there is nothing you can do about it, they simply say the surgery was unexpectedly more complicated and cost more.

[richard_smith237]

I know its difficult to name... but which hosptial ???....   somethinggrad, somethingvej, somethingkok? 

 

Any procedure my Wife and I have had at Hosptials in Bangkok have all required pre-authorisation from insurance and thus a cost estimate was provided (the final costs usually being below this). 

 

So.. its very strange that they hospital failed on this.

Additionally, you are quite right, the cost seems extremely excessive for what is a relatively simple procedure.

 

A recent procedure (knee arthroscopy) was estimated to cost 360,000 baht at Bumrungrad, the actual cost was about 60,000 baht less than the estimate. 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by richard_smith237

[KannikaP]

30 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

University Hospital in Pits is very good, our niece is at Uni. there so a regular visitor

Thanks Mike. I shall let you know in two week's time.

Chest xray and see the Dr was Bht 370 !

[Don Chance]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

University Hospital in Pits is very good, our niece is at Uni. there so a regular visitor

Pittsburgh, UPMC?

[scubascuba3]

Are any of us surprised? you have to get the price confirmed before surgery, the only exception is emergency treatment when they have you over a barrel, even then you have to pick a cheaper hospital

[KannikaP]

23 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

Pittsburgh, UPMC?

Don't be silly. Phitsanulok only has one T, whereas Pittsburg has two.

Edited October 13, 2023 by KannikaP

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Don Chance said:

Pittsburgh, UPMC?

Phitsanulok Thailand!

[Tropicalevo]

2 hours ago, mania said:

That is actually quite amazing in Thailand

Because the first question any Thai hospital has before they do anything is ....How are you going to pay?

And then I have always have had to pay a deposit on or before check in. Usually 80%.

[noobexpat]

Ignore 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by noobexpat

[Sheryl]

No, there is no such law AFAIK, but it is customary. Also customary, if the patient is self-pay, is  to get payment, or at least a large deposit, up front in advance.

 

600k baht is an outrageous charge and far more than the norm for any private hospitals. You are correct that, depending on length of stay and type of room, should be around half that.

 

I suggest you also contact the Ministry of Commerce which has the responsibility for issues of private hospital overcharging. See here https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/30372994

 

Serious overcharging happens to Thais as well, by the way.

 

 

[TheFishman1]

I’ve had several operations in Chiangmai Ram Hospital, which is a private hospital. They always give me an estimate as I recall I had a hernia operation similar to yours belly. Stayed there a few days as I recall I think it was around 180 I always ask for an estimate at for that to get pre-authorization from my insurance company. I’ve never had any problems TIT.

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, Don Chance said:

What ha

What happens if you don't pay or don't have the money?

Jail time.

[fondue zoo]

18 hours ago, mania said:

That is actually quite amazing in Thailand

Because the first question any Thai hospital has before they do anything is ....How are you going to pay?

 

 

 

A friend works for the largest insurer here, the stories she tells, how everyone's eyes alight with greed as soon as the level of insurance is disclosed. She has seen them drop what they were holding, usually a standard schedule for treatment, grab a quick chat with admin, and come back with a whole new regime of pre-op tests that are in no way related to the problem. It's so accepted that nobody says anything.

 

It's a feedback loop, everyone is trying to shaft everyone else.   ^{_{and not in the good way}}

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by fondue zoo

[Pumpuynarak]

I had a very unfortunate experience in a very well known private hospital some 10 years ago when i needed back surgery. When setting up the operation date etc i asked what the cost of the operation would be (i was paying) as they had not indicated it to me. Now this was when the problems started, they did'nt want to quote me the costs as they said it was difficult to do given all the issues and if something went wrong. 

I then told them that i was'nt prepared to write them a blank cheque and to please inform me of a ball park figure as surely they know what the costs should be.

Well there was a lengthy conflab going on between hospital administrators and back and forth to me and i repeated i was not writing them a blank cheque. They finally came back with a figure of 116K which i agreed to and signed all the relevant forms. On the day of the op i was asked for an upfront payment of 50K which i duly paid.

 

Final bill was 106K and i was happy but i do wonder if my non acceptance of their initial ''blank cheque'' proposal and the problems i was causing them made them think twice about bill padding me.

 

In conclusion i would'nt ever trust these b******* as far as i could throw them, imo they are the ''kings of bill padding'', we are customers not patients and they are a business and have little or no ethics/integrity. I say the aforementioned based on lengthy experience of mine and friends of mine, one friend was quoted 250K for a back operation and the bill actually came out at 350K, he had no complications or issues that could have given rise to the increased bill, he paid it but let them know exactly how he felt. 

 

Just sayin like.

[bruin]

Just had a procedure done at ratchaprueck in khon kaen. Given estimate 75000 after surgery final bill 120000. Of course I questioned the 60% increase even with my insurance covering it. Lots of mumbling this that with the only hard difference was during surgery, the local anesthesia was not strong enough I started the feel sharp pain so anesthesiologist put me to sleep under general. So they blame the 60% increase on me because "you are big strong man" had to change to general anesthesia and had to wait for general anesthesia to kick in. Surgery time went from 1 hour to 1.5 hours ...=60% increase. Because I whined the hospital ate my 10% copay. All free to me