Self Defense

[DamianMavis]

Someone very close to me was kidnapped right out front of her apartment and brought to another location and sexually tortured and raped. (at night near Thonglor in Bangkok). There was construction going on beside her partment at the time and those guys looked really rough and were constantly eyeing her, they knew she lived alone and someone had already robbed her apartment recently. Too late she realised she was in serious danger and she hadnt moved or prepared for an attack. Anyway, if you feel unsafe, get the ###### out now.

Damian

[DamianMavis]

You know what Girlx, if you are serious about self defence and want to take a vacation away from the beach to the big city Bangkok come here a bit and I'll give you an intensive self defence course for free at my martial arts school. I used to do womens self defence courses all the time in Canada, we have the full body armor suit for some schmuck to wear and let you beat senseless in your practice of the techniques under pressure. This kind of self defence is designed for begginers and none athletic people (if you can do more advanced stuff than we'll do that too but no problem if you can't), it focuses on gross motor skills techniques that even someone shaking and freaking out can apply successfully. You'll be training with my girlfriend so you don't get the wrong idea.

Self defence training can only help in certain situations, but I'll try to teach you about the mental aspects of self defence too and help you avoid trouble before it starts if possible.

Damian

[Ulysses G.]

Men are MUCH stronger than women and MUCH more at ease with and prepared to use violence. It is VERY doubtful that martial arts or any weapon other than a gun will do anything more than irritate a male attacker to greater force.

Getting a gun, learning to use it, being willing to use it and carrying it all times is the only practical self defence against a violent man for a woman.

[November Rain]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot overnight. It actually bothers me that most people are advocating weapons, yet the idea, even after reading the arguments, is so alien to me.

The only thing that occurs to me is possibly a cultural difference in thinking about weapons/arms. I'm wondering if most of the members supporting weapons are from North America or Asia, where it's more of a "normal" solution to a possible threat? I'm British & while I was living there & being brought up, weapons just weren't something you carried or used. In fact it was even against the law to carry items modified to be weapons. Could that be why I'm so against weapons, while many other members are pro them?

[Ulysses G.]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot overnight. It actually bothers me that most people are advocating weapons, yet the idea, even after reading the arguments, is so alien to me.

The only thing that occurs to me is possibly a cultural difference in thinking about weapons/arms. I'm wondering if most of the members supporting weapons are from North America or Asia, where it's more of a "normal" solution to a possible threat? I'm British & while I was living there & being brought up, weapons just weren't something you carried or used. In fact it was even against the law to carry items modified to be weapons. Could that be why I'm so against weapons, while many other members are pro them?

Huh?

How are you going to defend yourself against a HUGE, horny, steroid-crazed, psychopathic sadist without weapons of some sort unless you are a strong, MALE, martial artist/boxer who has been training hard for years? The answer is that you aren't.

[girlx]

BTW, I thought you'd shouted at the guys that broke in & they left?

yes i did and they left, but that doesn't mean i will be so lucky next time.

as for weaponry, i don't think the US is all hung up on weapons at all, except in places like Texas... i don't know anyone who keeps weapons around unless they collect knives or something.

also, yes koh phangan is dangerous, but not that much more dangerous than any other place in thailand. i think you are being a bit naive to think where you are is perfectly safe november rain. shit happens everywhere- i know this from many years of experience all over the world.

to the last poster- as i mentioned earlier the guy who came back to my village from a mental hospital and grabbed a knife from the isaan shop to go waving around at tourists was oblivious to 4 large thai men trying to stop him with shovels and rakes. in that case even weapons don't work. i am surprised that no one has mentioned how to talk someone down. there must be some psychological tactics that can be used?

[DamianMavis]

There is, talking people down is something I've had to do a bunch of times. But, honestly, not sure if you can pull it off without the physical confidence to back it up, you would have to be an expert actor to pull it off while under pressure and afraid. Part of talking someone down is being extremely calm and confident without being threatening and demonstrating that with your speech and body language. That would take alot more than one course is self defence, that takes years of training.

Ulysses, as a self defence instructor I hear and know about tons of circumstances where self defence did work for women that were much smaller than their attackers, but having said that and having a girlfriend that is targettted by lots of evil people here... I do encourage her to carry a weapon, maybe not a gun, but something.

Damian

[slapout]

Many texacans also try to talk people down. It normally goes like this, backoff or I will "bang" shoot. Prepare for your own defense in a way that feels confortable to you.

[Ulysses G.]

Ulysses, as a self defence instructor I hear and know about tons of circumstances where self defence did work for women that were much smaller than their attackers, but having said that and having a girlfriend that is targettted by lots of evil people here... I do encourage her to carry a weapon, maybe not a gun, but something.

Damian

I'm sure that basic self-defence training for women works once in a while, especially when the criminal is worried about privacy and can be scared away, but my guess is that it usually doesn't. If a woman is willing to immediately gouge an attackers eyes out or quickly slash his throat with a knife she might have a chance, but very few would. Many men and most women are just not willing to do what needs to be done until it is too late.

The bad guys rely on this.

[Dustoff]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot overnight. It actually bothers me that most people are advocating weapons, yet the idea, even after reading the arguments, is so alien to me.

The only thing that occurs to me is possibly a cultural difference in thinking about weapons/arms. I'm wondering if most of the members supporting weapons are from North America or Asia, where it's more of a "normal" solution to a possible threat? I'm British & while I was living there & being brought up, weapons just weren't something you carried or used. In fact it was even against the law to carry items modified to be weapons. Could that be why I'm so against weapons, while many other members are pro them?

Good question. We are all conditioned by our parents and cultures from childhood on about issues like this, religion, politics. Fortunately my parents were very mellow about all of these things and rarely even talked about them other than to let me know that I have the right to make my own choices in life.

I had my own rifle at age nine and have been an occasional hunter much of my life but never, as an adolescent, even considered owning a weapon for use against human beings. Then of course I joined the Army and spent a year and a half in full-on combat which taught me that there is a huge variety of very violent people out there and they exist in every nation in the world. I am far more offended by the thought that we may be forced to defend ourselves with some kind of weapon than I am about gun ownership and that is not about to change.

While violent attacks against our person are rare, it only takes once to find ourselves severely traumatized and wishing that we had thought seriously about self-defense beforehand. The world is changing whether we like it or not and violence is becoming more prevalent. Not to mention that Americans and Brits (among others) are coming to realize that we are becoming far less safe everywhere in this world because our own administrations are making masses of people angry enough to want to do us as much harm as possible.

Most of the previous posts about protecting ourselves through intelligent attitudes and awareness are correct, but then there are those crazies among us. Moving out of our home is repugnant and a sad state of affairs when there is not sufficient protection from those who are paid for that very service. The Tourist Police is a good place to start if a village is a bit out of control and dangerous people are allowed to endanger citizens in the street. I also like living a bit remotely but, now having family here, I choose to live in a quiet gated community with excellent security and guards patrolling our streets. Were I alone, I would be living privately and my home would not even be seen for the forest. But then people who are wealthy enough to afford such a thing, and are far from being overlooked by neighbors, can be and are occasionally victimized and even killed in their own homes. Yup, even here in Thailand.

Make your own choices about weapons based on your comfort/ability level, be constantly aware as you would be crossing a busy street, get a big ole friendly but imposing-looking dog, make the kind of friends you know would be there for you in an instant should you need them. I have trained my dog not to bark unless appropriate and have trained all the dogs near my home with a battery-operated ultrasonic anti-bark device so now whenever dogs bark near our home, I know something is going on other than them just making casual noise.

To answer your question, understanding that nobody can really do that but you, I think that you are offended by the thought of owning weapons is because you truly care about people and cannot comfortably entertain the thought of harming one.

I love it...would that everyone had your attitude...

[chaiyen]

yes, i think it is. reasons i am thinking about self defense-

1- there is a mental patient in my village who when he misses his medication can get very dangerous, especially to girls. he has a history of attacking people randomly.

2- there are unfortunately 4 construction sites surrounding my home at the moment. every day 3 pickup trucks chock full of burmese laborers pulls up. i live alone and it doesn't take long for them to figure that out. they stare at me as i come and go, and yell innuendos at me, try to get in my way so i have to stop and talk to them before i can pass, etc. they are often around late into the night. giving most uneducated peoples' impressions of western females, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they came to bother me.

3- i have already had 2 thai guys break into my house, on drugs, in the middle of the night.

4- places are often broken into around the time of the full moon.

5- i have an angry ex boyfriend who may start a problem with me some time.

am not sure weapons are the answer, but there is a lot of great advice about self defense in this thread.

do you not have a current boyfriend that stays with you? Why is your ex so angry? Does he live near you in your villiage? was he ever violent with you in the past?

[girlx]

no i don't have a current boyfriend who stays with me- i have an on and off boyfriend who has his own place. my ex being angry enough to do something to me is a longshot... but a slim possibility. he is angry because i dumped him and now he can't freeload off of me anymore.

[girlx]

as i mentioned earlier the guy who came back to my village from a mental hospital and grabbed a knife from the isaan shop to go waving around at tourists was oblivious to 4 large thai men trying to stop him with shovels and rakes.

argh! i had a feeling this might become a problem! this guy has just moved in next door to me. he has been staring at my house for 3 days, and junps all over me whenever i leave my house asking me to go watch thai boxing with him. not that that is psychotic behavior but i have seen him be so before. tips on dealing with a guy who i am guessing is schizo (sometimes dangerous)?

[kratindaeng]

as i mentioned earlier the guy who came back to my village from a mental hospital and grabbed a knife from the isaan shop to go waving around at tourists was oblivious to 4 large thai men trying to stop him with shovels and rakes.

argh! i had a feeling this might become a problem! this guy has just moved in next door to me. he has been staring at my house for 3 days, and junps all over me whenever i leave my house asking me to go watch thai boxing with him. not that that is psychotic behavior but i have seen him be so before. tips on dealing with a guy who i am guessing is schizo (sometimes dangerous)?

Self defense for a farang like you in Thailand? Unfortunately if you do decide to defend yourself, you will find yourself in more than a heap of trouble, as you dont live here, your just a guest of the Kingdom, and...the Thai will always win.

[girlx]

yeah hence why i am asking for advice, especially on talking down a mental patient

[chinthee]

Girlx, I advised early in this thread to get yourself some pepper spray, learn how to use it, and how to hold it in ready position inside your purse when you go out at night etc..

It really is effective against any mammal that breathes and has eye membranes, even mental patients or addicts on PCP. It will disable them long enough for you to make your escape. Please stock up on several canisters of this ASAP, and make sure you test every one of them keeping yourself upwind at all times! You really have to have the spray become almost like an extension of yourself so that it will come out reflexively in a panic situation.

That's your only protection against a mental patient really.

[kratindaeng]

yeah hence why i am asking for advice, especially on talking down a mental patient

oh I thought you were a farang girl talking about self defense...

Edited August 3, 2007 by kratindaeng

[mrtoad]

yeah hence why i am asking for advice, especially on talking down a mental patient

Don't try and do it, get yourself out of the situation. Learn something like breakaway and mental awareness. You are not going to be able to talk down an acutely ill mental patient without training and lot's of experience. Leave it to someone who can, don't put yourself in a dangerous situation.

[JimsKnight]

Pepper spray is a good weapon, as is mace, but mace is a precision weapon and in the heat of the moment you might not hit a moving target. Pepper spray envelopes and disables.

Where some people are getting the story of people not being affected by Pepper spray is from the CS gas tales where some people don't get affected.

Trust me. if someone takes a hit off pepper spray they will go down! Just point it at yourself and spray it! You'll see what I mean then

I've seen some 'hybrid disabling sprays' which combine CS gas, pepper spray and mace. They are more expensive but I think its just a gimmick.

The Tasers are a good thing to have, the ones that fire out the electrodes are preferable. You'll need to import those ones as well.

You'll be fined by the police if they catch you with one but unless you're waving it about showing off you won't have any problems. Just don't stick around after you've used it.

Forget knives and swords and guns. Too messy, too hardcore and too lethal for us to be playing with in a foreign country.

All of the above take a defensive situation and make it into a lethal one.

[TAWP]

Trust me. if someone takes a hit off pepper spray they will go down! Just point it at yourself and spray it! You'll see what I mean then

I would put to you that you are wrong with an enough motivated or de-sensiticed person as an attacker. If you have ever trained or seen some military training where application of pepparspray to the subject is done before the person has to do perform several steps of hard exercise you know that you can both train to overcome the effect and that a person that has reduced ability to sence anything (as in the case with PCP and other drugs) won't experience the effect anywhere near as much as a normal, placid, person.

Smacking yourself in the face with it will only teach you how a victim feels, not a motivated attacker...

Edited August 3, 2007 by TAWP

[Mai Krap]

Pepper spray is a good weapon, as is mace, but mace is a precision weapon and in the heat of the moment you might not hit a moving target. Pepper spray envelopes and disables.

Where some people are getting the story of people not being affected by Pepper spray is from the CS gas tales where some people don't get affected.

Trust me. if someone takes a hit off pepper spray they will go down! Just point it at yourself and spray it! You'll see what I mean then

I've seen some 'hybrid disabling sprays' which combine CS gas, pepper spray and mace. They are more expensive but I think its just a gimmick.

The Tasers are a good thing to have, the ones that fire out the electrodes are preferable. You'll need to import those ones as well.

You'll be fined by the police if they catch you with one but unless you're waving it about showing off you won't have any problems. Just don't stick around after you've used it.

Forget knives and swords and guns. Too messy, too hardcore and too lethal for us to be playing with in a foreign country.

All of the above take a defensive situation and make it into a lethal one.

Two attackers, one projectile taser, the math don't add up, attacks, robberies, rape, murder, and crime in general in Thailand is a multiple player sport in the majority of cases. Machetes are very messy but they are very effective with a minimum of training and understanding. The bottom line is there is no self defense without training unless you have a security guard, then they must do the training.

This thread is after all about women and self defense, I doubt if any man or men with a taser or even pepper spray would stand up to a lady with a machete, that says much on the matter.

[TAWP]

Two attackers, one projectile taser, the math don't add up

Right. Until you find out that several tasers have zero-range capability too. Look up the term 'Drive Stun'.

[Heng]

There really aren't too many "answers" to dealing with multiple attackers -which I think many would agree is THE formula for assault, rape, burglary, etc. in the LOS- ...that would agree with the anti-gun lobby here on TV. You pepper spray one of three guys who come to your house with knives with the intention of having you open your safe for them... vs. you shoot one of them... in one situation, they are going to run away, in the other you're just going to have 2 guys ready to fight and 1 guy pissed off and ready to fight in about 5-10 minutes (or less).

That said, I'm all for 500,000 Baht gun prices, and requiring minimums of say 10,000,000 Baht in the bank to get a license (it's already 1,000,000 nowadays), and online fingerprint scanning at all gun clubs and shops when you make ammo purchases.

[JR Texas]

There really aren't too many "answers" to dealing with multiple attackers -which I think many would agree is THE formula for assault, rape, burglary, etc. in the LOS- ...that would agree with the anti-gun lobby here on TV. You pepper spray one of three guys who come to your house with knives with the intention of having you open your safe for them... vs. you shoot one of them... in one situation, they are going to run away, in the other you're just going to have 2 guys ready to fight and 1 guy pissed off and ready to fight in about 5-10 minutes (or less).

That said, I'm all for 500,000 Baht gun prices, and requiring minimums of say 10,000,000 Baht in the bank to get a license (it's already 1,000,000 nowadays), and online fingerprint scanning at all gun clubs and shops when you make ammo purchases.

Even if you are like Bruce Lee and can kick ass, the best defense is always to avoid conflict. Running away is a good option......do anything possible to avoid having to hurt or possibly kill someone. Learn how to avoid placing yourself in a situation where you must react.

Often tough guys end up dead because they fail to follow the run away rule. I had a friend in high school that was stabbed to death because he thought he was a tough guy......now he is a dead tough guy.

For a female, a big, bad dog can work wonders to thwart off potential attackers (i.e., German Sheppard). Maybe you can move to another location.......good luck.

[Mai Krap]

There really aren't too many "answers" to dealing with multiple attackers -which I think many would agree is THE formula for assault, rape, burglary, etc. in the LOS- ...that would agree with the anti-gun lobby here on TV. You pepper spray one of three guys who come to your house with knives with the intention of having you open your safe for them... vs. you shoot one of them... in one situation, they are going to run away, in the other you're just going to have 2 guys ready to fight and 1 guy pissed off and ready to fight in about 5-10 minutes (or less).

That said, I'm all for 500,000 Baht gun prices, and requiring minimums of say 10,000,000 Baht in the bank to get a license (it's already 1,000,000 nowadays), and online fingerprint scanning at all gun clubs and shops when you make ammo purchases.

Even if you are like Bruce Lee and can kick ass, the best defense is always to avoid conflict. Running away is a good option......do anything possible to avoid having to hurt or possibly kill someone. Learn how to avoid placing yourself in a situation where you must react.

Often tough guys end up dead because they fail to follow the run away rule. I had a friend in high school that was stabbed to death because he thought he was a tough guy......now he is a dead tough guy.

For a female, a big, bad dog can work wonders to thwart off potential attackers (i.e., German Sheppard). Maybe you can move to another location.......good luck.

One dog is easy to get rid of with poison or even a stick, even police dogs are sometimes killed by determined criminals. More often than not none of these big dogs have any real training and the owners assume they can get the job done, an assumption which can get you killed.

Most everyone one knows flight or fight, running away, escaping, avoiding confrontation, are all good and valid defense against bodily injury. The problem lies in another assumption and that is one assumes they will be able to escape. What happens when you cannot get away from somebody and you are forced to deal with violence? Being the tough guy is not the answer but failure to have a plan to defend yourself in Thailand has been the death of many a tourist and expat, no need to go down the list but Elton Johns former Piano Player who was murdered on Ko Chang Island was attacked and beaten to death by three men who had been doing work for him. They decided to kill him for his money and did. The poor girls who were raped and murder in Ko Samui were also unable to escape their attackers and died for it. These were horrible crimes committed against them, ones they never dreamed would happen to them.

As I stated before, put a hundred pound woman against a two hundred pound man with no weapons and the man wins every fight no matter if its the baddest Muay Thai female in the world. Take the same hundred pound woman against that man or even two with 2 days of knife defensive training and in most cases she will win the fight, knives are the ultimate close quarters weapon, readily available, cheep, and extremely effective. Never mind the mess, the hype, the BS, or the fishing expeditions for new technology, The blade is a battle proven last defense weapon that has turned the tide to win many a fight.

[girlx]

again, good replies- i am still looking for pepper spray and i am primed to run if i can... but if there is any psychiatric nurse or someone who knows one on this board i would love to have your advice!

[November Rain]

again, good replies- i am still looking for pepper spray and i am primed to run if i can... but if there is any psychiatric nurse or someone who knows one on this board i would love to have your advice!

OK, if you're serious enough to ask for the advice of a psychiatric professional, then I think you need to be more clear on what exactly this guy does to make you or others worried.

Previously you've said he's "Psychotic" and "schizo". Have you done reading to be sure that those are the exact descriptions of his problems? Could he be autistic? Bipolar? Does he have paranoid tendencies? Possibly his behaviour is influenced or has been caused by drink or drugs?

Secondly, are you completely fluent in Thai? As a native speaker? If not, how do you think you can "talk down" someone who is not in their right mind, when you can't even express some ideas correctly in their language?

I'm with Mr Toad - don't even try, unless you really know what you're doing. His post was spot on.

[girlx]

he was in a mental hospital and when he was let out last time he forgot to take his medication and became delusional, forgot who everyone around him was, just tried to attack (that was when the village men tried to bring him down). he has also sexually assaulted (thai) females before when he was off his medication. he used to do a lot of drugs when he was younger but doesn't do them now, except in prescription form. when he is on his medication he is nice enough, but when he is off he is psychotic- what his exact diagnosis is i don't know. he is overly friendly to me, which is ok until he forgets his medication someday. then i am guessing it will be a problem. the thais around me know he is dangerous but say "mai pen rai". (grrr!)

when i was in college i counseled schizophrenic patients on the phone, when they had forgotten their meds and went nutty. scary stuff on the phone, wouldn't know how to deal with it in person.

he speaks decent english so i would be able to talk to him, just don't know if there are techniques for doing so.

[WaiWai]

Having a gun would seem to me very dangerous as girlx could most likely be quickly overpowered & have the weapon used against her. The same goes for knives.

So far, I am thinking the pepper spray sounds like the best idea.

Also, try to get to know the family/people this guy lives with as much as possible. The more you understand him & the more you communicate with them, the better, I'd think. Though they may say "mai pen rai" they will register your concern. However, keep your distance with him, without being unfriendly.

Sounds quite scary, all in all. You don't want to move ?

[girlx]

you know i am so frustrated with the thai families surrounding me here that i may just move. they know i am a farang girl living alone, and i go out of my way to help them quite often. but when i ask for information or help or even a watchful eye they just brush me off. i have had a couple of weird experiences with the thais around me lately and absolutely no one stepped up to the plate to help me when i needed it, and i don't expect them to if this guy goes off his rocker again. it's like they all have their heads in the sand. guess it is my problem though.