Getting Him To Listen

[Ulysses]

I need help getting my sig other to listen.

I am un-happy and have been so for a while.

He will not accept counseling (have asked for 3 yrs).

He thinks it can all be worked out by being happy.

Well I am not happy, and I am tired of trying to get him to listen. He is ADD or just plain deaf.

I am tired of the finger pointing, whatever I say is wrong he says is wrong with me too, okay then fine, lets sit and talk about it and see how to fix it, but he just can't be bothered. Does not like confrontation, nor conflict. Wants to keep his head buried int he sad. At least that is how I feel and how I interpret the situation.

IF you ask him (assuming his vocal cords will function when put on the spot) then it will most likely be a different story. But I wouldn't know because his vocal cords are non functional when I try to talk.

I know he loves me, or at least I think he loves me, but, if you really loved someone you would listen and try.

My last option is to either threaten to pack and leave, or just do it, and be done with it.

I hate threats and feel that is an un-fair way to manipulate a person. Besides, I don't want to be with someone that I had to threaten. and I would not want to be with somone who threatened me to make me stay either.

So... what are my options. Because quite frankly I am really tired of trying.. But then again, maybe I am not trying enough. Maybe I should try harder.. but then what for? Just to get shot down again? I am completely riddled with holes.

Suggestions please.

AND no... he is not cheating on me.. that much I know. Besides dragging me every where he goes, I was a private eye in another life.

[girlx]

if you are trying and he is not, there's your answer. it takes two. dump him.

[DamianMavis]

Dang, Im so curious what his problems are that are making you so unhappy and he is oblivious to.

Damian

[cathyy]

He doesn't want to hear about your unhappiness because then he'd have to change; he attacks you as a defense mechanism when you try to be specific about what is making you unhappy. Both are behaviors designed to resist change and maintain the status quo. Dude ain't gonna change, honey. Either you suck it up -the path he expects you to take since that's what you have done for years- or you leave. No threats required. Just do it, and find somebody who gives a rat's ass about more than his own comfort zone.

[ThaiWanderer68]

Ulysses

You haven't really said what he does.

He is right. It can be worked out by being happy. Be proactive and choose to be happy. People cannot make you unhappy unless you choose to be. Read something like "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" Habit 2 Be Proactive; Habit5 Seek First to Understand, Then to be Understood (Steven Covey). There's a few passages there on empathetic communicating, might be helpful. Or Dalai Lama "Art of Happiness".

Stop painting yourself as some sort of victim and look for the positives. You are in control of your life, not just your speech. Count how many times in your post you wrote "I". Now count how many times you wrote "we".

Maybe you just p**s him off with nagging him about something and this is his way of dealing with it. He does not like confrontation or conflict. So he goes quiet. He also loves you. Note that's a verb, it's something you do. Like "be happy"

If you don't like finger pointing don't do it. He seems to be able to overlook your faults. Start focusing on the postives that "we" do together.

Cathhy,

you're frightening... you read a few paras then come up with "put up" or leave.

Ulysses

I thought Ulysses was Latin for Odysseus. He was away from his love for 10 years during the Trojan war. He p****d off Poseidon and it took him a further 9/10 years to get back to Ithaca. He was also the cause of many of his own problems. I'm not suggesting you spend the 18years or so Homer's "hero" in his Odyssey does, but before you take Cathhy's two choices, perhaps reflect a little on yourself and do some more reading first or thinking first

[canadiangirl]

Hey Ulysses,

it's hard to really say without knowing what you're fighting about exactly but in general I would agree with girlx: it takes two. It's not up to one person to fix an entire relationship -- both sides have to be willing to put in the effort.

But maybe if you want to write more about why you guys are fighting, we could have some more specific advice?

[ThaiWanderer68]

if you are trying and he is not, there's your answer. it takes two. dump him.

Girlx

Ever thought that he think's he's trying too, just in different ways? you're hearing one side of the story.

Perhaps his version of trying includes being non-confrontational and avoiding conflict when she is p****g him off. It takes two you say - yes it does to have an argument. Seems like one doesn't want to argue.

Is she really listening? He might not think so. Maybe just a simple nice guy who loves his wife and is happy. Afterall ghe takes her everywhere. His way is maybe simply to "do" things. Whereas hers is to "talk" about them! If he is not talking enough, maybe she is not communicating enough to him by actions instead of words. Nagging does very little positive and it's not exactly high level communicating.

She was a private eye. Perhaps she over analyses things, and he doesn't. Maybe she sees problems which he doesn't, and he gets fed up with this.

Don't forget we often judge ourselves on our intentions, but others on their actions. Are you sure this isn't what is happening, when your wisdom simply says dump him?

Edited July 16, 2007 by ThaiWanderer68

[canadiangirl]

Ulysses

Stop painting yourself as some sort of victim and look for the positives. You are in control of your life, not just your speech. Count how many times in your post you wrote "I". Now count how many times you wrote "we".

Maybe you just p**s him off with nagging him about something and this is his way of dealing with it. He does not like confrontation or conflict. So he goes quiet. He also loves you. Note that's a verb, it's something you do. Like "be happy"

Cathhy,

you're frightening... you read a few paras then come up with "put up" or leave.

Oh dear God, what advice.

You slag Catthy off for reading a few paragraphs and advising the OP to leave, but you read those same few paragraphs and conclude the OP should "stop thinking of herself as a victim", "overlook his faults, he overlooks yours", let's not forget the eternal --- "maybe you're just nagging him too much" and oh "maybe you're the cause of all your own problems"?

You sound like someone who has an axe to grind about his own past relationships with women.

Edited July 16, 2007 by canadiangirl

[ThaiWanderer68]

Oh dear God, what advice. Let me guess, TW, you're a guy, right?

You slag Catthy off for reading a few paragraphs and advising the OP to leave, but you read those same few paragraphs and conclude the OP should "stop thinking of herself as a victim", "overlook his faults, he overlooks yours", "maybe you're just nagging him too much" and "maybe you're the cause of all your own problems"?

What a mean, judgmental response.

Basic points here:

- Maybe there is another perspective to look at.

- You, Ulysses, Cathhy and GirlX obviously can't look at it from an opposite point of view, or his view. That's very useful in relationships. The fact you immediately classify as mean someone with a different point of view is another example, without trying to understand it

- Ever thought it is more useful to have a different point of view? i.e someone who is not another woman shouting yes ditch him.

- What do you three expect? Do you really think he's going to turn round and say yes because you all share the opinion on a forum she's right and he's wrong. If you read she says he's not confrontational. You three ladies aren't. Maybe she needs someone to b confrontational to give her the opposite view

- BTW I didn't say "cause of all her own problems". I did raise she might be the cause of "many". Note the word "might" and "many". Unless you're a woman, problems are rarely one person's fault and rarely back and white.

- What's the point of me saying all the things every girl is going to say? You all agree with her, and whatever she is doing isn't working. As she seems to love him and he her, that suggests it might be worth a different approach. She asked for suggestions. I don't see much constructive in everyone saying the same thing or agreeing with her.

- Ever heard the Indonesian saying when you point a finger, there's three fingers point back at you.

- Think about it for a moment. If everyone says yes it takes two, he's a bad one, ditch him, all men are like that, where's that going to lead. Yes she feels better people agree with her. Personally I'd rather everyone disagreed with me and I have a happy marriage.

- You often learn more from people who challenge your point of view than those who don't.

- She may well be right in many things. But I don't think any of you ladies can judge that based on the info supplied.

In summary:

- Canadian girl agrees with Girl X. GirlX says ditch him. Cathhy likewise. **** if that's not judgemental what is

- Take a look at yourself first when things are going wrong. Not just thru your own eyes, but the eyes of others. Hence all those maybe's... I'm well aware they could be "maybe not's"

- What I did lay out facts/judgements on are: You're in control of your own life. You can choose. Be proactive.

Edited July 16, 2007 by ThaiWanderer68

[canadiangirl]

- You, Ulysses, Cathhy and GirlX obviously can't look at it from an opposite point of view, or his view. That's very useful in relationships. The fact you immediately classify as mean someone with a different point of view is another example, without trying to understand it

- Ever thought it is more useful to have a different point of view? i.e someone who is not another woman shouting yes ditch him.

- What do you three expect? Do you really think he's going to turn round and say yes because you all share the opinion on a forum she's right and he's wrong. If you read she says he's not confrontational. You three ladies aren't. Maybe she needs someone to b confrontational to give her the opposite view

(I've edited my original reply to you to reflect what I really think, which is:)

I think you have an axe to grind about your own relationships with women.

As for "another point of view" (apparently, this means a man to tell you to stop "nagging"), I assume that by posting in the ladies forum, the OP was looking for a primarily female point of view.

I guess Ulysses can decide for herself what she finds more useful. For all I know, Ulysses is a gay man. Personally, I'm not a fan of men posting aggressive, confrontational-bordering-on-disrespectful replies to women or gay men asking for advice about their relationships in the ladies forum.

[bruceboy]

Is your husband Thai?

The non-confrontational approacxh, refusing to talk about "it" and wanting to be happy as a solution sounds like a typical Thai cultural trait.

[Ijustwannateach]

I agree with Cathy- these are "crazy-making," intentionally non-communicative behaviours. There's nothing physically or mentally wrong with the guy when there's smooth-sailing- if he can talk then, he should be able to talk other times, too. It's a question of what he wants to do. And he doesn't want to change whatever the problem is, so it's time to up the ante if you want to save the relationship. If he really wants to save it, he'll have to change too (if you're willing to sacrifice the relationship for whatever problem is occurring).

I would recommend that certain other posters on this thread bury their collective hatchets and avoid slurs about each others' motivations, genders, sexualities, et al. The Ladies' Forum has had enough flaming lately.

[canadiangirl]

I would recommend that certain other posters on this thread bury their collective hatchets and avoid slurs about each others' motivations, genders, sexualities, et al. The Ladies' Forum has had enough flaming lately.

Point taken, IJWTT. It's just so hard to resist sometimes.

[Jersey_UK]

Suggestions please.

What about writing him a letter? Don't make it only full of problems though! - make it positive as well.

[GracelessFawn]

I suggest you tell him about what you feel. For example start by saying...... I feel sad because (state your reason). I feel lonely because (state your reason). Then tell him how he can help sort things out with you. Lastly, wait for his answer however, long it takes him.

[justagirl]

I suggest you tell him about what you feel. For example start by saying...... I feel sad because (state your reason). I feel lonely because (state your reason). Then tell him how he can help sort things out with you. Lastly, wait for his answer however, long it takes him.

Nah, that's too complicated and too much bullsshiite. I suggest you get a broom or a frying pan and give him a good whacking in the head. Sometimes, actions speak louder than words.

Edited July 17, 2007 by justagirl

[sutnyod]

Ulysses,

if your husband is Thai inquire about a certain custom that is not very widely practiced: the "as-if-divorce". Have you ever heard about it?

[ThaiWanderer68]

Oh dear God, what advice.

You slag Catthy off for reading a few paragraphs and advising the OP to leave, but you read those same few paragraphs and conclude the OP should "stop thinking of herself as a victim", "overlook his faults, he overlooks yours", let's not forget the eternal --- "maybe you're just nagging him too much" and oh "maybe you're the cause of all your own problems"?

You sound like someone who has an axe to grind about his own past relationships with women.

Nope. Very happily married thank you. No axe to grind. Maybe you're the one with an axe to grind about men? Are you even married? I've not even mentioned my gender and you've jumped to all sorts of personal conclusions.

I try and practice what I preach. My Thai spouse is generally quiet, non confrontational and doesn't like conflict. As someone else raised maybe Ulysses' guy is Thai, in which case that is pretty normal behaviour.

I do my best to not criticise my spouse or reproach for things that "look" wrong, because they often aren't wrong and I have simply misunderstood. I always look at what I may have done to cause a problem. It's very easy to judge someone on your interpretation of their actions and judge yourself on your intent. This is particularly dangerous across cultures. You sound like someone with very little experience of cross cultural relationships.

Instead of complaining about your spouse's actions, I believe someone needs to try and understand why they themself are complaining. If you work on the basis you love each other, you can then assume their intentions are at least as good as your own, and perhaps you have just misunderstood. Hence if my spouse doesn't listen or understand me, my first thoughts are: is it really them who are not listening or is it me who can't make them understand, or can't interpret their actions.

I have a wonderful spouse. I start from the premise of if something isn't right between us what have I done and wha can I do. There's usually something I could have done better. I see no harm in suggesting that to others.

Again: it's much easier to change what is wrong about yourself than others. If you start with your own faults, people are also more open to hearing about their own. So be proactive, understand before trying to be understood, choose to be happy, and remember the 3 fingers pointing at yourself before you point at others.

Edited July 17, 2007 by ThaiWanderer68

[ThaiWanderer68]

I'd suggest putting on the table a few things you're not happy with about yourself, or things that you know annoy him that you do, and ask him what he feels about them and how you can impove. After that when you've given something he is likely to be more receptive to your needs.

BTW Before someone jumps on this again as having a go at Ulysses for being the party who is wrong . It's not about who's most wrong and right. Ulysses may indeed be the one doing all the trying, but if he doesn't see that it's unfortunately not going to help. If she goes in with the approach of "I feel sad..." "I'm not happy...." it's all about what he is doing wrong at her. i.e we're going to have a conversation about what I want, isn't necesarily the best starting point.

Reverse it, show what you are doing wrong, agree to work on it, then flip it round. One of the best ways of creating trust is first to extend it.

Edited July 17, 2007 by ThaiWanderer68

[Nienke]

Well, TW68, your words certainly impress me. IMO, your words are very wise words. You made me giggle when you mentioned that you, in fact, haven't mentioned your gender (you still haven't and IMO it isn't important in this case as well), but immediately you are seen as a man. Something I've experienced several times also (not necessarily on the Lady's forum alone).

It's very easy to judge 'the other person' is wrong. But from one opening post it is just impossible to understand what dynamincs are really going on the relationship. I can understand the OP is frustrated, but all we know is the OP's frustration, nothing more.

A person very dear to me had a long term relationship. It fell apart because her partner also wasn't giving any feedback, at least that's what she exprienced during that period. Now, years later, after lots of reading (e.g. man come from Mars, women come from Venus which can apply to Gay-people as well), counseling, talking with friends and with more life experience she realizes that maybe she wasn't capable to listen to him as well and has said and done things that weren't very correct either, making him to shut up even more.

They are still very good friends. I know they still love each other deeply and that both regret very much their miscommunication during their relationship and their splitting up as a result. It's certainly one of the saddest split-ups I've seen.

So, my advice to the OP is similar to TW's, and that is try to understand what's going on in the other person, recognize the pattern and then change it! And I know, this is easier said than done. And maybe, the end result will still be seperation or maybe not.

Nienke

[sbk]

As a person who has been in a very long term relationship with a Thai male, I have to echo a few things that have already been stated:

Thai people in general and most men quite specifically, are not good at communication of feelings. Period. Constantly harping on something he is not comfortable doing, is not going to make him want to communicate.

I learned that if I want my husband to communicate with me, I have to tell him what is going on in my head first. And then ask. And then give him time to formulate his answer. If that takes a couple of days, so be it. Shouting makes him shut up. Nagging about it makes him shut up.

My advice? Wait until you are calm and have completely worked out what you want to say in a logical rational manner. And then say it. Do not expect an immediate response. Say, "I would like to hear what you think but we can talk about it later when you've had time to think it over." Emotional, angry conversations never work out. If you really love this guy, and he really loves you, then it can be worked out. Given time.

It takes two to make a relationship work and we can only judge the OP's relationship by the limited picture she's painted.

[canadiangirl]

BTW Before someone jumps on this again as having a go at Ulysses for being the party who is wrong . It's not about who's most wrong and right. Ulysses may indeed be the one doing all the trying, but if he doesn't see that it's unfortunately not going to help. If she goes in with the approach of "I feel sad..." "I'm not happy...." it's all about what he is doing wrong at her. i.e we're going to have a conversation about what I want, isn't necesarily the best starting point.

Hi TW,

it's possible that I have misunderstood your original post, in which case I apologize. There is some sense in what you say in this clarification. It is sometimes good to be the one to make the first peace offering in case of a conflict (or else you'll be stuck on an impasse forever.), and admitting one's one wrongs will often be enough to encourage a fair-minded partner to do the same.

But I think it's important to remember that all the efforts to save a relationship can't be one-sided. The OP can be the one to start the ball rolling by admitting her own faults, asking her partner how she could change to make their relationship better, but he has to turn around and do his part too.

[solo siam]

The OP doens't even mention why she is unhappy, she say she loves him and vice vera. He doesn't cheat on her, isn't beating her, takes her out - not enough information on what if anything is actually wrong. Sounds like he concentrates on what should make them happy, whilst perhaps she concentrates on what makes them unhappy.

[Nienke]

The OP doens't even mention why she is unhappy, she say she loves him and vice vera. He doesn't cheat on her, isn't beating her, takes her out - not enough information on what if anything is actually wrong. Sounds like he concentrates on what should make them happy, whilst perhaps she concentrates on what makes them unhappy.

Getting no feedback (or not understanding feedback as such) can kill a relationship as well. I think here comes in one of those man/woman differences: women want to talk talk talk and man act, just to put it very black and white and no judgement intended.

Nienke

[Ulysses]

I guess Ulysses can decide for herself what she finds more useful. For all I know, Ulysses is a gay man. Personally, I'm not a fan of men posting aggressive, confrontational-bordering-on-disrespectful replies to women or gay men asking for advice about their relationships in the ladies forum.

For the record, in this instance, I am not male, I am female.

However, if I had been a gay man, would I be any less deserving of help?

I posted here in the Ladies Section because

1. I would have been crucified in the general section

2. Quite a few male posters who frequent this section are pretty rational in their thinking.

3. For the most part the women who post tend to be supportive and offer suggestions.

[sbk]

I guess Ulysses can decide for herself what she finds more useful. For all I know, Ulysses is a gay man. Personally, I'm not a fan of men posting aggressive, confrontational-bordering-on-disrespectful replies to women or gay men asking for advice about their relationships in the ladies forum.

For the record, in this instance, I am not male, I am female.

However, if I had been a gay man, would I be any less deserving of help?

I posted here in the Ladies Section because

1. I would have been crucified in the general section

2. Quite a few male posters who frequent this section are pretty rational in their thinking.

3. For the most part the women who post tend to be supportive and offer suggestions.

I figured you were female. And if you were a gay man, I say "Welcome" they often have the same issues with men that we women do, so why not?

1. Absolutely

2. Well, yes, I agree but we do get the odd misogynist who feels the need to come in and score some points

4. I hope so.

So, anyway, my experience with my husband has been to give him some time but make him realize that it will need to be dealt with. Don't push, but be firm. Give him a few days, and then a gentle warning. then another day or so. Men in general really hate the "talking it out" thing that women do, Thai men even more so. But, he has to realize that for your relationship to succeed, he will need to deal with you.

Good luck, it can be done. I've managed to stay married for 18 years and we still have these issues, but we do eventually get through them

[Ulysses]

Is she really listening? He might not think so. Maybe just a simple nice guy who loves his wife and is happy. Afterall ghe takes her everywhere. His way is maybe simply to "do" things. Whereas hers is to "talk" about them! If he is not talking enough, maybe she is not communicating enough to him by actions instead of words. Nagging does very little positive and it's not exactly high level communicating.

She was a private eye. Perhaps she over analyses things, and he doesn't. Maybe she sees problems which he doesn't, and he gets fed up with this.

Thai Wanderer,

You are an extremely scary person.

I could care less what gender you are.

I say he drags me everywhere, you say he takes me everywhere. I see it as dragging, and he most likely also sees it as "taking". I am so annoyed that I can't even see it as positive, and I refer to it as negative and a burden.

Maybe I am not listening, I might be too upset to listen, and maybe I am just seeing only the negative, instead of focusing on the positive (which obviously he tries to or does).

Do I over analyse things? Yes, I do. Is it a problem? Apparently so. Did I ever look at it as a problem? No, I didn't. Do I see problems when he does not? Yes I most certainly do.

And I did use the word "I" alot. Didn't realise it, but then I rarely feel like there is a "we" apparently even when there is a "we". I will look for the reading material you have recommended.

Did I use to nag? Yes I did! But I considered it to be constructive nagging. I don't nag anymore. I just try not to care.

He has high blood pressure, chloesterol, is overweight, and smokes like a chimney on fire.

So, I reduce the salt in his food, try and get him to excercise, and have quit trying to get him to stop smoking.

The result: I make a meal, with enough salt for the average person, and what does he do? Makes some smart ass comment about not having enough salt.

I stopped focusing on what he ate and when he ate, and he gained a lot of weight. I mean a lot. His friends looks at me, then look at him, and I can hear their thoughts.. Is she trying to kill him?

He criticizes every single attempt I make to try and whatever. He is a walking time bomb (his father had a heart attack) and I do not do death very well. Okay so george burns lived to a ripe old age of almost (if not 100) and smoked everyday.

This is a major issue, and he looks at me, and says.. I am negative.

Do I critic him? Not really. I think he is brilliant, but selfish (when it comes to how his life affects mine). I constantly praise him. I compliment him daily. What do I get? Nothing, (which is not so bad) because when he does say something, it is critical and he makes rude comments in front of people which I think is a low blow. Not all the time, but you just do not do that.

I said. " I feel like no matter I do, nothing is good enough for you". Can you at least say something nice, just once in a while?

His response... "ohh here we go again"

He said "you are not my mother I already have one"

I have never even bothered to respond to that, because he is right. I am not.

BUT then again.. maybe I am controlling. And perhaps I just need to find the happy in between so that he can have his space, and not feel like I am trying to run his life.

By the way he is not thai.

[bendix]

I'm keeping out of this discussion. We only have one side so it's frankly impossible to say anything other than the vaguely supportive but hardly helpful posts already mentioned.

But, i would like to ask a philosophical question.

If female members don't want male perspectives, perhaps they should lobby to have a true women's only forum where guys aren't allowed in.

Some guys post aggressive posts, for sure. Well, tough, that's what you get in an open forum. Others have valuable male perspectives to offer which - even if they don't provide that tendering nurturing "there, there, it'll be alright lovey" - can be just as useful. As another poster has said, perhaps different views and challenges can be just as helpful - if not more helpful - than those you agree with.

I get a growing feeling that any posts that don't offer that facile support and love and mutual empathy aren't welcome and are automatically dubbed misogynist and are deemed flaming.

[sbk]

I figured out that he wasn't Thai about half-way through your last post Not Thai male responses, IME.

Not so good with farang men experiences except he sounds a bit like my dad, who had a very controlling mother. Anything that even remotely sounds like her sets him off, regardless of how it was meant. My mom finally got to the point where she had to say "He is a grown man and he has to make his own choices"

Seems you need to let it all go, your attempts at "fixing him", your anger, and your unhappiness. If you do love him then you have to let him make his own choices, no matter how destructive they are. He is the only one who can want to make these changes in his life and no amount of nagging will solve it. My mom told me that this is what she has had to do to find peace with not only her husband but with herself. And no, she doesn't want him to die, but she does want him to be happy.

And just as an FYI, for all men, no nagging is constructive, its just nagging.

[sbk]

I'm keeping out of this discussion. We only have one side so it's frankly impossible to say anything other than the vaguely supportive but hardly helpful posts already mentioned.

But, i would like to ask a philosophical question.

If female members don't want male perspectives, perhaps they should lobby to have a true women's only forum where guys aren't allowed in.

Some guys post aggressive posts, for sure. Well, tough, that's what you get in an open forum. Others have valuable male perspectives to offer which - even if they don't provide that tendering nurturing "there, there, it'll be alright lovey" - can be just as useful. As another poster has said, perhaps different views and challenges can be just as helpful - if not more helpful - than those you agree with.

I get a growing feeling that any posts that don't offer that facile support and love and mutual empathy aren't welcome and are automatically dubbed misogynist and are deemed flaming.

Not really on topic, bendix, so could you please post this in the thread that it is relevant too? That being, of course, squatters rights. Your opinion is valid, just not here, thanks.

Back on topic, now