Getting Him To Listen

[sutnyod]

Ulysses,

do you have any negative bodily responses to his presence yet? Difficulties to breath? Depression when he is around that lifts immediately after he leaves? Unreasonable fits of pure hatred? Does your presence change you? (It happened I had to accept the idea that something was wrong with a partnership the instant my children asked me: why are you always singing and dancing when father is not around? - THAT made me wake up! And no, I had NOT realized before that I was much happier when I was alone with my kids...)

[ThaiWanderer68]

I'm keeping out of this discussion. We only have one side so it's frankly impossible to say anything other than the vaguely supportive but hardly helpful posts already mentioned.

But, i would like to ask a philosophical question.

If female members don't want male perspectives, perhaps they should lobby to have a true women's only forum where guys aren't allowed in.

Some guys post aggressive posts, for sure. Well, tough, that's what you get in an open forum. Others have valuable male perspectives to offer which - even if they don't provide that tendering nurturing "there, there, it'll be alright lovey" - can be just as useful. As another poster has said, perhaps different views and challenges can be just as helpful - if not more helpful - than those you agree with.

I get a growing feeling that any posts that don't offer that facile support and love and mutual empathy aren't welcome and are automatically dubbed misogynist and are deemed flaming.

Not really on topic, bendix, so could you please post this in the thread that it is relevant too? That being, of course, squatters rights. Your opinion is valid, just not here, thanks.

Back on topic, now

Actually I thought Bendix hit the nail on the head, and was on topic, at least from where I sit, with some of the replies. My first real posts in this section, and many of the reactions seemed to show what he highlights. Different views aren't really wanted here. I've never heard of concepts like "flaming", but I was surprised how many people jump on a band wagon, condemning others based on what is not even written, just becauses they assumed a guy dared to speak, or because it's different.

I thought Cathhy's response was frightening. Read a post for 2 mins. Conclude on someone else's marriage "put up" or "move on". Girl X "ditch him". Then Canadian girl sees this it as "slagging off" if I say this is a frightening reaction, and consider something else even if uncomfortable to you. Do you really believe that? How can you judge someone else's marriage so quickly with so little info? God forbid someone took that sort of advice. I hope I'm not "flaming" again, but if that were my spouse I'd hope there'd be a few steps in between. Wasn't the original post centreing on communication?

BTW Speaking about off topic. Someone might question why this is on ThaiVisa.com. Doesn't seem anything to do with Thailand, nor something that really wants an open forum. My assumption was it would have - hence different perspectives. BTW2 That's not a complaint before someone jumps on that, just an observation.

I did see some constructive posts and ideas from some people, though. So I'll try and choose who I post to more carefully in future.

Ulyssses

As for your quote: "Thai Wanderer, You are an extremely scary person. I could care less what gender you are. "

My apologies if you think that.

Good luck with your marriage.

Edited July 17, 2007 by ThaiWanderer68

[sbk]

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as the moderator of this forum, I feel a discussion about general response to posts in this forum really has nothing to do with the current topic at hand, which is Ulysses' marital issues.

And frankly, I find it surprising that so many women would immediately jump on the "dump him" bandwagon with so little information. But again, as I have stated, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just give my own without also posting judgments regarding others opinions in this case.

As for the idea of this being off topic in the ladies forum, this is the LADIES forum. Please read the forum description, not all topics in this forum must be Thailand related but WOMEN related. If you have issues with this then feel free to bring it up with admin but do not hijack this thread with that discussion.

If you feel the need to discuss the ladies forum and its general posting behavior, then please do so in the squatters rights thread, or start one of your own. But this, again, is not the place to do so.

Back on topic, further attempts at hijacking the thread will be deleted.

[AmericanGuy1066]

Seems to be quite a bit of irony in this post. Lady can't get her guy to listen. A few guys write some posts and they are not well received and jumped on. What do you think will be the reactions of the guys who post? As a guy, I can tell you, they'll either argue back or they'll stop posting, and stop listening. Anyone else see any parallels with what the original post here? The thread itself has a lot to say without words...

[villagefarang]

I figured out that he wasn't Thai about half-way through your last post Not Thai male responses, IME.

Not so good with farang men experiences except he sounds a bit like my dad, who had a very controlling mother. Anything that even remotely sounds like her sets him off, regardless of how it was meant. My mom finally got to the point where she had to say "He is a grown man and he has to make his own choices"

Seems you need to let it all go, your attempts at "fixing him", your anger, and your unhappiness. If you do love him then you have to let him make his own choices, no matter how destructive they are. He is the only one who can want to make these changes in his life and no amount of nagging will solve it. My mom told me that this is what she has had to do to find peace with not only her husband but with herself. And no, she doesn't want him to die, but she does want him to be happy.

And just as an FYI, for all men, no nagging is constructive, its just nagging.

I agree completely! But if I had written the same exact word feel I would have been erased.

[Boo]

Guys quit bitching about the way the LADIES section is run. I for one am sick of it. Get over it or stop posting in here. Simple really.

[bendix]

Not really on topic, bendix, so could you please post this in the thread that it is relevant too? That being, of course, squatters rights. Your opinion is valid, just not here, thanks.

Back on topic, now

Ahhhhh, mea culpa. I hadnt read squatter's rights. It just shows, doesnt it? Not only do guys not listen, but we can barely read either.

[GracelessFawn]

It sounds like as if you need a holiday girl. Go take one. A little time away from each other might help.

[Ulysses]

Thai Wanderer,

You are a scary person ------ because you do not know me, and yet your analysis of the situation seems to be dead on in a lot more ways than one. Not that you are a SCARY person. It is not a bad scary, but a good scary.

I could care less what gender you are ------ because your gender is not an issue (even though some seem to feel that if you are a male you should not be posting here). For me, male or female, is not an issue, but rather the advice / constructive criticisim.

Which brings about another point.

My communication ability and my choice of words. What I say and what I mean. I may not be the effective communicator I thought I was.

[chuchok]

What most blokes don't understand,is that women just want to be listened to.You don't even have to agree,just listen.You don't even have to offer a solution to their problems either...just listen.

If you have ever heard two woman talking and one is going on about a problem,the one on the recieving end normally just nods or makes the right noises at the appropriate time.Guys jump in offerering thier 2 cents worth and try and fix things before they really know what is going on.

The above is a bit of a generalization ,but it can help a relationship no end.

Personally,I am a bad listener and have to really make an effort.

[sbk]

Thai Wanderer,

You are a scary person ------ because you do not know me, and yet your analysis of the situation seems to be dead on in a lot more ways than one. Not that you are a SCARY person. It is not a bad scary, but a good scary.

I could care less what gender you are ------ because your gender is not an issue (even though some seem to feel that if you are a male you should not be posting here). For me, male or female, is not an issue, but rather the advice / constructive criticisim.

Funny, that is what I thought you meant when I read your initial response, and then to see Thai Wanderer's response made me wonder if I had got it wrong. Guess not.

[girlx]

well i did say in the first answer "dump him"... but that was "if" there was only one side trying. if you are doing everything you can to make things good and it isn't working, then it's time to free him for a bit, and see what happens. if he cares he will have to make the effort to communicate. as SBK said-

Seems you need to let it all go, your attempts at "fixing him", your anger, and your unhappiness. If you do love him then you have to let him make his own choices, no matter how destructive they are. He is the only one who can want to make these changes in his life and no amount of nagging will solve it. My mom told me that this is what she has had to do to find peace with not only her husband but with herself. And no, she doesn't want him to die, but she does want him to be happy.

p.s. i have the opposite problem. my boyfriend is not typically thai at all and wants to analyze and talk everything to death. since i am the same we don't balance and get each other a bit on edge! i actually miss a non communicative boyfriend a bit! try to see positive for a bit, as someone said.

Edited July 17, 2007 by girlx

[GracelessFawn]

A male student was carrying a book entitled, "Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps." Might be an interesting read.

[bendix]

What most blokes don't understand,is that women just want to be listened to.You don't even have to agree,just listen.You don't even have to offer a solution to their problems either...just listen.

If you have ever heard two woman talking and one is going on about a problem,the one on the recieving end normally just nods or makes the right noises at the appropriate time.Guys jump in offerering thier 2 cents worth and try and fix things before they really know what is going on.

Blimey, a sensitive new age Kiwi bloke. Now there's something you don't see too often

Slightly OT, but I laughed at your picture of two women talking, cos i've often suspected that the 'one of the receiving end' isnt listening either, but is just making sure a 'uh huh' or a 'oh dear me' is thrown it at regular intervals. I must learn that skill - the faux listen.

However, I laughed loudest cos when my wife gets together with her friends, I find it hard to understand how they can communicate when four women are talking all at the same time. Are they listening and talking concurrently?

I wish i had those skills.

[ThaiWanderer68]

Ulysses,

Thanks for your message.

I think there's enough on this thread alone to highlight how one thing can be said but another heard. It's virtually impossible to understand 100% what is communicated, the intention behind it, the way it's communicated and the feelings or thoughts attached, to name a few. Think we just need to remember sometimes there's a gap between the communicator and the receptor. Some communications the gap is small so it goes unnoticed, but it's usually there unfortunately. So try and flip it round and see both sides:

- try and understand what someone said, not just what you heard

- try and understand what someone heard, not just what you said

That doubles our chances of getting it right.

Edited July 17, 2007 by ThaiWanderer68

[LaReina]

Bendix, voice of reason, may I disagree with you with regards to people seeking advice for problems on a public forum.

After all, sometimes, with experience and age, people sitting down can see much farther then the ones standing up.

Edited July 17, 2007 by LaReina

[villagefarang]

In my personal experience, when friends ask for help in dealing with relationship issues, what they really want is for me to take their side. I invariably refuse to take sides and instead lay out possible scenarios. If you do this what might happen? If you do something else what will that lead to, most likely? Try to point out thing they may not see because they are too close to it or too emotional. Then step back and say it is up to you to decide, what is important to you. It is after all your life and you have to live with your choices not me.

[Boo]

Slightly OT, but I laughed at your picture of two women talking, cos i've often suspected that the 'one of the receiving end' isnt listening either, but is just making sure a 'uh huh' or a 'oh dear me' is thrown it at regular intervals. I must learn that skill - the faux listen.

lol my mum had a friend like this, she would unload all her problem over the phone & mum would be busy getting dinner ready or cleaning up & occasionally pick up the phone receiver & say, yeah or uh uh. Her friened didnt want advice or even to talk just needed an empty space to vent to.

[bendix]

Bendix, voice of reason, may I disagree with you with regards to people seeking advice for problems on a public forum.

You may, indeed.

In fact, I'd encourage it. Disagreeing with me usually leads one to a more common sense conclusion. I do it all the time.

[kat]

A male student was carrying a book entitled, "Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps." Might be an interesting read.

I read maps. In fact I've been paid loads of money to make maps, and present them with important information. But somehow I still get lost just a few blocks from my house sometimes - go figure.

[chuchok]

Slightly OT, but I laughed at your picture of two women talking, cos i've often suspected that the 'one of the receiving end' isnt listening either, but is just making sure a 'uh huh' or a 'oh dear me' is thrown it at regular intervals. I must learn that skill - the faux listen.

lol my mum had a friend like this, she would unload all her problem over the phone & mum would be busy getting dinner ready or cleaning up & occasionally pick up the phone receiver & say, yeah or uh uh. Her friened didnt want advice or even to talk just needed an empty space to vent to.

Used to see the old boy do this to my mum too.....many times!He used to put her on speaker phone and continue reading the paper.

[cathyy]

Geez, sorry to scare you guys. Actually, I was looking at it from his point of view. He is happy with the way things are. He thinks she should be happy the way things are. A change in the nature of the relationship is not something he is willing to do, as evidenced by his refusal to get counseling. This situation has been going on this way for years. He would be happy as a clam if it continues forever. He is happily married.

The problem is that her unhappiness is apparently meaningless to him. He is not willing to change what makes him so happy in order to possibly make her happy also. It goes beyond selfish, when you think that other people should be happy just because you are. That's where the OP's husband is. Every marriage needs give and take. He won't give, only take. The OP deserves better than that, and she's not going to get it from the narcissist she's married to. He may think he loves her dearly, but he loves himself far more. OP needs to love herself a bit more and believe she deserves a partner who values her happiness.

[GreenShone]

I would just quit trying. Men don't listen!

[GreenShone]

Bitch-slap him? He,he,he just kidding fellows.

[November Rain]

Slightly OT, but I laughed at your picture of two women talking, cos i've often suspected that the 'one of the receiving end' isnt listening either, but is just making sure a 'uh huh' or a 'oh dear me' is thrown it at regular intervals. I must learn that skill - the faux listen.

lol my mum had a friend like this, she would unload all her problem over the phone & mum would be busy getting dinner ready or cleaning up & occasionally pick up the phone receiver & say, yeah or uh uh. Her friened didnt want advice or even to talk just needed an empty space to vent to.

Used to see the old boy do this to my mum too.....many times!He used to put her on speaker phone and continue reading the paper.

I hate to admit this, but this is one of my tricks. If I'm busy, I won't answer the phone to friends that can talk the hind leg off a donkey. And I have been known to get through a whole phone conversation, saying "yep" and "uh-huh" and "sure", without having the faintest idea what was said. The last time I did this was lunchtime today. The phone call was half an hour long & I have no idea what it was about. I'm a very bad person.