Thai finance ministry considers beverage tax restructure to boost tourism

[ukrules]

30 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The Thai wine industry is worth almost USD 1 billion per year, the high price on imports is to protect the home market.

 

https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/alcoholic-drinks/wine/thailand#revenue

 

With much lower taxes perhaps it would be 4 or 5 Billion per year

[spidermike007]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm not suggesting it's the right thing to do or that the wine is any good, I'm merely explaining why the import tax is so high.

 

While I see your points, it still does not make any sense. I think it is more about corruption, pure and simple, than it is about protecting a small, feeble, super low quality local wine industry. They could be making a fortune on wine imports, wealthy Thais love fine wine, and so do tourists, especially the wealthy ones they drone on and on about wanting to attract, yet they attract relatively few of them, for a dozen good reasons, including this one.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists, and go for quality over quantity. Quantity over quality is never a good thing, unless you are selling one dollar items at a swap meet. It just lowers the quality of the experience for all.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

 

With much lower taxes perhaps it would be 4 or 5 Billion per year

Lowering import taxes is unlikely to make the domestic market for wine production grow, how would it?

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

 

While I see your points, it still does not make any sense. I think it is more about corruption, pure and simple, than it is about protecting a small, feeble, super low quality local wine industry. They could be making a fortune on wine imports, wealthy Thais love fine wine, and so do tourists, especially the wealthy ones they drone on and on about wanting to attract, yet they attract relatively few of them, for a dozen good reasons, including this one.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists, and go for quality over quantity. Quantity over quality is never a good thing, unless you are selling one dollar items at a swap meet. It just lowers the quality of the experience for all.

It joins the list of hundreds of other things here that don't make sense, they are all done for a reason but logic doesn't enter the equation.

[ukrules]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

Lowering import taxes is unlikely to make the domestic market for wine production grow, how would it?

The domestic industry can die for all I care, the government would make its money from the massive increase in imports.

 

Something else that would also likely happen is that the domestic industry would get off its ass and actually begin to do their job - make good wines.

That would mean more jobs and better products. Right now they can continue to produce whatever rotten stuff they're making and still have an edge, so the current policy encourages mediocracy.

[still kicking]

32 minutes ago, nong38 said:

The price of wine here is way to high and I cannot understand that in relation to spirits. The wine also available is of generally very poor quality, too sweet and stuffed with local fruit to degrade it even more. On a recent trip to the UK I could buy a bottle of wine that knocks Berri Estates offerings into a cocked hat for the equivalent of 242 bts. A fair quality bottle of wine say from South Africa or Chile in Waitrose can be had for 350 bts. A bottle of Bells is cheaper here than in the UK!

I am a wine drinker (I like dry red wine) I buy 5 litres in OZ for about 350 baht I bought a bottle of red in LOS for 400 baht. (750 ml) I used to drink beer before, but I gave up on it many years ago because it became too expansive in OZ. Yes, people say boxed wine is no good, but it is just a matter of getting used to it. 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

The domestic industry can die for all I care, the government would make its money from the massive increase in imports.

 

Something else that would also likely happen is that the domestic industry would get off its ass and actually begin to do their job - make good wines.

That would mean more jobs and better products. Right now they can continue to produce whatever rotten stuff they're making and still have an edge, so the current policy encourages mediocracy.

Yes, yes and yes, we all know these things and always have. But somebody somewhere in a position of power and great influence insists it will not be so, presumably to protect his income.

[spidermike007]

2 minutes ago, ukrules said:

The domestic industry can die for all I care, the government would make its money from the massive increase in imports.

 

Something else that would also likely happen is that the domestic industry would get off its ass and actually begin to do their job - make good wines.

That would mean more jobs and better products. Right now they can continue to produce whatever rotten stuff they're making and still have an edge, so the current policy encourages mediocracy.

 

Very true. And the importation of 10-20x as much wine as the current status, would mean a huge increase in taxes, even if the rate was 80% lower, and a countless number of jobs within the industry. The politicians do not get it. They have no focus, and their nationalism blinds them to reality and prevents them from achieving any meaningful level of improvement. The domestic wine and beer industry deserves no support, or favorable treatment, as they produce such a vastly inferior product.

 

[ChipButty]

19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Such exemplary service is the reason why wealthy tourists are flocking to Thailand. They cannot get enough of the place, and the wives love shopping at overpriced luxury boutiques!

They would be very disappointed if they stayed around Kata and Karon for a couple of weeks, a couple of months back my daughter her husband and a 2 year old plus his parents stayed in a 5 star hotel in Karon, I tried to take them somewhere different every night it was becoming difficult and the standard of service and food was appalling in the local places we had to travel further away to places where we would go, it was making it more difficult with 3 Muslims and my daughter a veggie, the best eater was my grand daughter, 

One day in the hotel my grand daughter wanted a hotdog, 340 baht ++, come guys behave yourselves, I walked across the road to 7/11, 

The standard of hygiene is very poor they wanted to eat along the sea front one night in Karon, no refrigerators just dodgy ice boxes, no no we are not eating here we will drive somewhere else, 

It was the first time in a long time we have been out every night for a long time, as we eat at home mostly, 

The standards are way off I didnt realise how bad it was, I would feel sorry for first time tourist coming to Karon, 

[Peterphuket]

41 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The Thai wine industry is worth almost USD 1 billion per year, the high price on imports is to protect the home market.

 

https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/alcoholic-drinks/wine/thailand#revenue

Their own wine is also ridiculously high in price, and mediocre quality, but that can't be helped, this is not France.

[trainman34014]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Reduce beverage tax all you want, but the bars will still  charge what they want.

Simple answer....Stay out of Bars !

[ikke1959]

Better stop with the alcohol sales and buying bans and the ridiculous high taxes on wines from abroad...Very bad quality wines for a high price. In western countries you almost can buy a whole box for the price here and of better quality

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

They would be very disappointed if they stayed around Kata and Karon for a couple of weeks, a couple of months back my daughter her husband and a 2 year old plus his parents stayed in a 5 star hotel in Karon, I tried to take them somewhere different every night it was becoming difficult and the standard of service and food was appalling in the local places we had to travel further away to places where we would go, it was making it more difficult with 3 Muslims and my daughter a veggie, the best eater was my grand daughter, 

One day in the hotel my grand daughter wanted a hotdog, 340 baht ++, come guys behave yourselves, I walked across the road to 7/11, 

The standard of hygiene is very poor they wanted to eat along the sea front one night in Karon, no refrigerators just dodgy ice boxes, no no we are not eating here we will drive somewhere else, 

It was the first time in a long time we have been out every night for a long time, as we eat at home mostly, 

The standards are way off I didnt realise how bad it was, I would feel sorry for first time tourist coming to Karon, 

 

I totally agree, I went to Phuket a few months ago for the first time in about 10 years, I was quite astonished at how much the place had slipped, how boring the nightlife was, and how disappointing the overall experience was. I never need to go back. It was so much better 5 or 10 years ago. The only highlight for me was the Andaman, which is an amazing sea.

[Mike Lister]

Yet another aspect of this is the fact that fundamentally, Thai people are very conservative. Imported sin and sin taxes is fine because there is a moral imperative to protect the population. But home grown sin is something else and must be tolerated because it is Thai. Think alcohol, sex and soon to be gambling.

[still kicking]

2 minutes ago, trainman34014 said:

Simple answer....Stay out of Bars !

Yes, all of my years in LOS and many times for holiday I never been to a bar.

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

Their own wine is also ridiculously high in price, and mediocre quality, but that can't be helped, this is not France.

 

Very true, they just do not have the terroir nor the climate for wine here, so they create an insipid product. No excuse. If they want to be the high quality tourist destination they rant on about, they must make sacrifices. Allowing imported wine and beer, at low duty levels is just one thing they could be doing. Otherwise the quality of tourist will continue declining, and so will the spend per tourist. 

[JackGats]

So cannabis should become illegal again instead of staying legal to boost tourism, but booze should become cheaper to boost tourism. No problem with commercials for booze of course. No problem with booze being sold next to schools. No problem with any disturbing smell, long live the smell of fermenting and vomit!

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Very true, they just do not have the terroir nor the climate for wine here, so they create an insipid product. No excuse. If they want to be the high quality tourist destination they rant on about, they must make sacrifices. Allowing imported wine and beer, at low duty levels is just one thing they could be doing. Otherwise the quality of tourist will continue declining, and so will the spend per tourist. 

But but but, what will replace the import tax on day one, the country and the budget needs that income and it's a huge amount? 

 

https://silklegal.com/wine-tax-in-thailand-a-protectionist-barrier/

 

https://dmcrth.dmcr.go.th/attachment/dw/download.php?WP=rUqjMT04qmqZG22DM7y04TyerPMjBT01qmIZAJ1CM5O0hJatrTDo7o3Q

[soi3eddie]

6 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

Absolutely correct Bob, the current level of tax on all forms of alcoholic beverages puts many people of drinking wines etc. lower the tax & more people would consider drinking the more expensive shorts.

Not just that about drinking more quantity. I like a glass of wine, if I know that I can go to a restaurant to enjoy some decent wine without being robbed then I'll be more likely to eat out. My point being, lowering tax on wine will also likely benefit restaurants.

 

[ukrules]

13 minutes ago, JackGats said:

So cannabis should become illegal again instead of staying legal to boost tourism

 

Believe it or not most people don't care about cannabis and when I say most I mean the vast majority of people.

 

[soi3eddie]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Why is wine tax in Thailand 250% on average? In most cases, duties constitute a State’s first protection against products imported from other countries in direct competition with local production.

Does Thailand produce wine? Yes, local production is around one million liters per year and is based in 3 areas of the country: Loei, Hua Hin and Khao Yai. The projects are relatively recent, and the quality of the wine produced is rather low with a high price.

 

Therefore, taxes on wine imports into Thailand would not appear to be a protectionist measure: against a production of one million liters, import weighs for 18.5 million liters per year, for a market worth 4 billion THB before customs, therefore estimated at (at least) 20 billion turnover on the retail market (source: Thai Custom, December 2022).

 

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e5332250-7d7e-4274-8aaf-5fac06ce95f2

Times I've been to Khao Yai and Hua Hin, the wines were 2,000+ Baht a bottle for mediocre product. Are they being taxed same as imports or are the taxes different local vs import?

  

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Times I've been to Khao Yai and Hua Hin, the wines were 2,000+ Baht a bottle for mediocre product. Are they being taxed same as imports or are the taxes different local vs import?

  

The higher the price of imported wine that becomes expensive because of the import taxes, the higher the price local producers can charge for locally produced wines.

[Snig27]

8 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

Many tourists from Australia favour Bali

 

As a former resident of Bali, alcohol is vastly more expensive in Indonesia. Wine is nuts. 

[Snig27]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

Believe it or not most people don't care about cannabis and when I say most I mean the vast majority of people

 

You've been moving in the wrong circles. Pretty much everyone I've spoken to under a certain age in Europe, UK and, yes, Singapore has expressed interest in the weed. Young Singaporeans come for two weeks - one to smoke and one to cleanse the blood. Ganja tourism is pretty big now and there are tours that specifically target it. 

[Walker88]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Utterly ridiculous tripe. The wine import market would be ten times the size it currently is, with a 70% tax, instead of 300%. And that would mean many billions in taxes. The only reason the domestic market is protected is bought and paid for officials and politicians, and the extreme lack of wisdom inherent within this policy is a national tragedy. Also, an abundance of fine wine at fair prices would attract more wealthy tourists, wine events and festivals, etc. Thai wine is a highly inferior product. It does not deserve any protection.

I buy a lot of wine. I buy enough so that suppliers give me the wholesale price. For many Italian wines of better quality, I pay the same or less than I do in the US.

 

I asked about the tax....I was told that low priced wines get hit with a high tax, but better wines get a reduced rate, as importers claim a much lower cost. For a wine that sells for $15 in the US, it might cost $35 here, but a wine that costs $100 in the US might cost $100 here, or even less. That's wholesale. A medium priced wine like Le Volte or il Bruciato also costs me the same wholesale here as I would pay in a shop in the US retail.

 

Restaurants tend to mark up considerably, depending on how hi-so they are. Maybe some mark up 100%, while others mark up 300%. You can buy a Solaia or Tignanello wholesale for about what I pay in the US, but at a restaurant it's 3x what I pay in a US cave. If the tax is cut, cheaper wines will cost less in restaurants, but the Solaias are likely to be the same, as the tax now is a fraction of the official rate.