jbowman1993 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) I get somewhat tired with folks on the board continually painting all Thai people, or Thai men and women, with the same brush. Generalizations and stereotyping went out of style a long time ago, all. Perhaps some of you haven't caught on yet, but it was one of the actual good contributions of the "PC" movement. Topic titles like "selfish Thais" and "Thai male wasters" just rubs me the wrong way. I would call on people posting topics to talk about specific individuals. It will help keep the tone of the conversations on a more intellectually inspired level. This is a farvorite quote of mine, from the 1993 film Gettysburg. Not sure if it strengthens my argument or weakens it, but it came to mind as I was typing, lol. Bizarre how the mind works sometimes. "Colonel, darling, you're a lovely man. I see a vast difference between us, yet I admire you, lad. You're an idealist, praise be. The truth is, Colonel... There is no "divine spark". There's many a man alive of no more of value than a dead dog. Believe me. When you've seen them hang each other the way I have back in the Old Country. Equality? What I'm fighting for is to prove I'm a better man than many of them. Where have you seen this "divine spark" in operation, Colonel? Where have you noted this magnificent equality? No two things on Earth are equal or have an equal chance. Bit a leaf, not a tree. There's many a man worse than me, and some better... But I don't think race or country matters a dam_n. What matters, Colonel... Is justice. Which is why I'm here. I'll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I'm Kilrain... And I dam_n all gentlemen. There is only one aristocracy... And that is right here. [points to his head] " Edited July 18, 2007 by jbowman1993 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) Some people when bit by a dog when they are little children will be afraid of all dogs for the rest of their lives. We try to encourage our friends to open their hearts and minds, but alas, some will shiver in fear or rise up in anger every time they see a pooch. Thus, it is, with generalizations and stereotypes - a painful cage some people plant themselves in. When I was a small child some folks used to talk about Negroes the same as some people talk about "Thais" on this website. Edited July 18, 2007 by mdeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkstoney Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 What's really funny is when you try to get people on TV to listen to you when someone has a blatantly racist and degrading caricature of an African man for an avatar. Because it goes for everybody, right? Not just Thais because you're in THEIR country, right? I mean, we're in Thailand. Is it ok to now call blacks niggers or spades or coons because you don't think any are around? Well, I'm around and I'm wholly offended not only by the avatar but by the negligence of the TV moderators who are always so eager to "give a holiday" when someone's saying things THEY don't like. I doubt there are very many, if any, other blacks who frequent this website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torv Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm Thai, and honestly sometimes those threads do rub me the wrong way. However, I know full well what and who they're talking about. Take the selfish Thai girls for example. What part of Thai girls attract "farang" in the first place? If they turn out to be selfish or whatever, then hel_l live with it. If you can't stand her, then go ahead and break up with her. The truth of the matter is I've seen many farangs complaing about how Thai girls are gold digger, then they just went ahead and forgot that it's them that lure those Thai girls with money. Those Thai girls mostly come from impoverish parts of Thailand, and have never been "comfortable" before. If you spoil them at the beginning, then you'd have to keeping doing it. Seriously guys. Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijnebijn Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 We are all living on the same planet . We are all humans . Racists are very disorientated . We made the borders , differentiate this from that , like children . In fact on the evolutionairy path , we are still . proof ? Look around you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm Thai, and honestly sometimes those threads do rub me the wrong way.However, I know full well what and who they're talking about. Take the selfish Thai girls for example. What part of Thai girls attract "farang" in the first place? If they turn out to be selfish or whatever, then hel_l live with it. If you can't stand her, then go ahead and break up with her. The truth of the matter is I've seen many farangs complaing about how Thai girls are gold digger, then they just went ahead and forgot that it's them that lure those Thai girls with money. Those Thai girls mostly come from impoverish parts of Thailand, and have never been "comfortable" before. If you spoil them at the beginning, then you'd have to keeping doing it. Seriously guys. Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm Thai, and honestly sometimes those threads do rub me the wrong way.However, I know full well what and who they're talking about. Take the selfish Thai girls for example. What part of Thai girls attract "farang" in the first place? If they turn out to be selfish or whatever, then hel_l live with it. If you can't stand her, then go ahead and break up with her. The truth of the matter is I've seen many farangs complaing about how Thai girls are gold digger, then they just went ahead and forgot that it's them that lure those Thai girls with money. Those Thai girls mostly come from impoverish parts of Thailand, and have never been "comfortable" before. If you spoil them at the beginning, then you'd have to keeping doing it. Seriously guys. Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. You know, in all my time on this blasted forum, Ive never received one of those thumbs up, even when I knew I deserved one. Anyway, I digress .... dkstoney: you are not the only one on this forum, and I know exactly who and what you are talking about. This is a large swath of the population that is attracted to Thailand in droves, and i't s no accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Well, I'm around and I'm wholly offended not only by the avatar but by the negligence of the TV moderators who are always so eager to "give a holiday" when someone's saying things THEY don't like. It's being dealt with, and as for your comments >< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 You know, in all my time on this blasted forum, Ive never received one of those thumbs up, even when I knew I deserved one. You got a lot of compliments that you never heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman1993 Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 Glad to hear there are some more like-minded people out there, on this issue. Thanks for the responses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumchok Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Seriously guys.Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Ok , I'll take the bait That could be seen as being a little racist in itself . I am sure that i am not alone in saying that some of us could be offended by that statement . I'll take it on the chin , but I have experienced tension from waitresses who believe they are above catering for an impoverished thai girl . Simple solution , smaller tip if any , and never return . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukanyacondo Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm Thai, and honestly sometimes those threads do rub me the wrong way.However, I know full well what and who they're talking about. Take the selfish Thai girls for example. What part of Thai girls attract "farang" in the first place? If they turn out to be selfish or whatever, then hel_l live with it. If you can't stand her, then go ahead and break up with her. The truth of the matter is I've seen many farangs complaing about how Thai girls are gold digger, then they just went ahead and forgot that it's them that lure those Thai girls with money. Those Thai girls mostly come from impoverish parts of Thailand, and have never been "comfortable" before. If you spoil them at the beginning, then you'd have to keeping doing it. Seriously guys. Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Careful your generalising ha ha My wifes comes from one of those poor areas has never gold dug and I dont think this is an excuse for gold digging, maybe insert the word "lazy" or of lower moral standards for some of the girls. Im sure some of the richer ones are equally bad at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm Thai, and honestly sometimes those threads do rub me the wrong way.However, I know full well what and who they're talking about. Take the selfish Thai girls for example. What part of Thai girls attract "farang" in the first place? If they turn out to be selfish or whatever, then hel_l live with it. If you can't stand her, then go ahead and break up with her. The truth of the matter is I've seen many farangs complaing about how Thai girls are gold digger, then they just went ahead and forgot that it's them that lure those Thai girls with money. Those Thai girls mostly come from impoverish parts of Thailand, and have never been "comfortable" before. If you spoil them at the beginning, then you'd have to keeping doing it. Seriously guys. Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Careful your generalising ha ha My wifes comes from one of those poor areas has never gold dug and I dont think this is an excuse for gold digging, maybe insert the word "lazy" or of lower moral standards for some of the girls. Im sure some of the richer ones are equally bad at times. What Torv said rings true in many cases though. Some guys look for a poor girl whom they can attract with the lure of financial stability then they wonder why the woman's main concern is money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torv Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) Seriously guys.Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Ok , I'll take the bait That could be seen as being a little racist in itself . I am sure that i am not alone in saying that some of us could be offended by that statement . I'll take it on the chin , but I have experienced tension from waitresses who believe they are above catering for an impoverished thai girl . Simple solution , smaller tip if any , and never return . Everything can be taken the wrong way if one chooses to, I reckon. And it's not really racism, but I am stereotyping between two types of Thai women. There are exceptions to everything is the golden rule here. I guess what I'm trying to say is that those Farang who comes to Thailand looking for wives. They have expectations of how Thai girls are already in their mind. Common stereotypes are "exotic", "subservient"...etc. And why not? That's what they've heard, that's what they've seen in movies, and you know...it's not far from the truth. I admit it that I am a very objective person, I say things as they are, and in turn pisses off both parties. So let me try to do that again here because you guys know I just love controversy. Pretty vocal for a newbie huh? Back to the point. Farang's tourist spots such as Patpong, Pattaya, or whereever there are Thai girls holding up 3 fingers going "Hi you big white men, 300 baht all night long yeah?". This is the typical stuff. If Thai women are known to be "hard to get" to Farang, do you think there'd be more Farangs here than now in order to win the heart of Thai women? I can positively assume that to be a hel_l no answer (seriously whis is the word hel_l censored?). That of course, is another generalization I am making in order to be well within the context of this thread. I say, if Farang comes here looking for a subservient, typical exotic Thai girls, and the girls end up becoming a gold digger. Wouldn't you say that it's a fair trade? Farangs go to Thailand and aside from charms, and personality, they also have the almighty first world currency hitting on a girl who makes about a 10 dollars a day then we know where that's going. An OP from another thread gave an example of selfish Thai girls. The first example was about his girlfriend asking/telling him to turn the music down. The second one being a girl always eating before he does. Ok...does this seem to anyone that it could happen to any race in any relationship? It's so common that I think including the word "Thai" in there is categorically accusing Thai girls who are with Farang of being selfish. Even if it were true, it doesn't discount the fact that there are other women who do that too or better yet MEN of other races! If you think of this logically...and you can. For example, Farangs come to Thailand to find girls. He has all the tools to succeed in that. His tools are...he's farang, he's charming, he has personality, he speaks English, he's from the first world country, he has money that makes him seemingly wealthy. Guys, these are tools we all use in real life. For those of us who go after girls, we tend to use something to get a leverage, and money is one of them. Why not? Girls like stable guys who are homeowners. Then a lot of Farangs go after the girls who don't have white skinned charming men with foreign currency chasing after her everyday. What is she gonna do? Of course she's going to take it. Farangs looking for a place to retire with Thai women who have all the qualities they want, and Thai girls want to get out of her poverty strickened life. Like I said, a fair trade. However, there are those who make it. My realtor here in the US who is Thai is married to a veteran that stationed in Thailand. He's about 20 years older than her. Typical eh? She was brought over to the US with virtually no education, but strived to be better. She got an MBA, working as a loan officer/realtor with 2 houses and her life is pretty much set. She makes more money than her husband now, and they're still in love with one gorgeous daughter (I mean it). Mind you, it probably starts out the same way as any other farang male, Thai female couples but they're also clearly in love. They both knew what one another was after, but they could also accept that it's life. At this day and age, living on love alone is long gone my friends. This can be tracked back to the exception to every rule deal I mentioned earlier. Do I think Thai people are perfect little angels? Har har! In fact I think a lot are very shallow. It's the only culture I know that kids extensively make fun of their Muslim classmates about not being able to eat pork. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the restive South is happening because they've had no respects from their Thai counterparts and have had enough. It's the only culture that still says the word "Negro" without flinching. In fact, as you might already know. Thai people prefer white folks over black folks. Why? I don't know, but I can honestly say, it's mostly the "color" of your skin. That's it. Of course I speak this in general sense as to once again keep in context with the thread. I grew up in Thailand, and I know the goods and the bads of it. I also know what the foreigners come expect from Thai women. But hey, can you blame them? Prostituion is illegalized in Thailand...REALLY!?! I'm of course defending Thai women here because not all are like that. "What can you expect from Thai women?" Expect her to be a regular woman. "Why are Thai girls selfish" Same reason as other girls being selfish. I know that this forum is frequent by Farangs mostly, and most of the questions are pretty much asked from one Farang to another. I hope you do enjoy Thailand, it has a lot to offer. There're also bad sides. People will always be a mix of good and bad, educated and ignorant, but never ever forget why you chose Thailand in the first place. Edited July 18, 2007 by Torv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torv Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm Thai, and honestly sometimes those threads do rub me the wrong way.However, I know full well what and who they're talking about. Take the selfish Thai girls for example. What part of Thai girls attract "farang" in the first place? If they turn out to be selfish or whatever, then hel_l live with it. If you can't stand her, then go ahead and break up with her. The truth of the matter is I've seen many farangs complaing about how Thai girls are gold digger, then they just went ahead and forgot that it's them that lure those Thai girls with money. Those Thai girls mostly come from impoverish parts of Thailand, and have never been "comfortable" before. If you spoil them at the beginning, then you'd have to keeping doing it. Seriously guys. Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Careful your generalising ha ha My wifes comes from one of those poor areas has never gold dug and I dont think this is an excuse for gold digging, maybe insert the word "lazy" or of lower moral standards for some of the girls. Im sure some of the richer ones are equally bad at times. Apologies. Please read my post below. I'm glad you're one of the lucky ones who actually found love. It's very hard to write this type of posts and not offend anyone or even both side of the coins! Well I ended up explaining myself again anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumchok Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Seriously guys.Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Ok , I'll take the bait That could be seen as being a little racist in itself . I am sure that i am not alone in saying that some of us could be offended by that statement . I'll take it on the chin , but I have experienced tension from waitresses who believe they are above catering for an impoverished thai girl . Simple solution , smaller tip if any , and never return . Everything can be taken the wrong way if one chooses to, I reckon. And it's not really racism, but I am stereotyping between two types of Thai women. There are exceptions to everything is the golden rule here. I guess what I'm trying to say is that those Farang who comes to Thailand looking for wives. They have expectations of how Thai girls are already in their mind. Common stereotypes are "exotic", "subservient"...etc. And why not? That's what they've heard, that's what they've seen in movies, and you know...it's not far from the truth. I admit it that I am a very objective person, I say things as they are, and in turn pisses off both parties. So let me try to do that again here because you guys know I just love controversy. Pretty vocal for a newbie huh? Back to the point. Farang's tourist spots such as Patpong, Pattaya, or whereever there are Thai girls holding up 3 fingers going "Hi you big white men, 300 baht all night long yeah?". This is the typical stuff. If Thai women are known to be "hard to get" to Farang, do you think there'd be more Farangs here than now in order to win the heart of Thai women? I can positively assume that to be a hel_l no answer (seriously whis is the word hel_l censored?). That of course, is another generalization I am making in order to be well within the context of this thread. I say, if Farang comes here looking for a subservient, typical exotic Thai girls, and the girls end up becoming a gold digger. Wouldn't you say that it's a fair trade? Farangs go to Thailand and aside from charms, and personality, they also have the almighty first world currency hitting on a girl who makes about a 10 dollars a day then we know where that's going. An OP from another thread gave an example of selfish Thai girls. The first example was about his girlfriend asking/telling him to turn the music down. The second one being a girl always eating before he does. Ok...does this seem to anyone that it could happen to any race in any relationship? It's so common that I think including the word "Thai" in there is categorically accusing Thai girls who are with Farang of being selfish. Even if it were true, it doesn't discount the fact that there are other women who do that too or better yet MEN of other races! If you think of this logically...and you can. For example, Farangs come to Thailand to find girls. He has all the tools to succeed in that. His tools are...he's farang, he's charming, he has personality, he speaks English, he's from the first world country, he has money that makes him seemingly wealthy. Guys, these are tools we all use in real life. For those of us who go after girls, we tend to use something to get a leverage, and money is one of them. Why not? Girls like stable guys who are homeowners. Then a lot of Farangs go after the girls who don't have white skinned charming men with foreign currency chasing after her everyday. What is she gonna do? Of course she's going to take it. Farangs looking for a place to retire with Thai women who have all the qualities they want, and Thai girls want to get out of her poverty strickened life. Like I said, a fair trade. However, there are those who make it. My realtor here in the US who is Thai is married to a veteran that stationed in Thailand. He's about 20 years older than her. Typical eh? She was brought over to the US with virtually no education, but strived to be better. She got an MBA, working as a loan officer/realtor with 2 houses and her life is pretty much set. She makes more money than her husband now, and they're still in love with one gorgeous daughter (I mean it). Mind you, it probably starts out the same way as any other farang male, Thai female couples but they're also clearly in love. They both knew what one another was after, but they could also accept that it's life. At this day and age, living on love alone is long gone my friends. This can be tracked back to the exception to every rule deal I mentioned earlier. Do I think Thai people are perfect little angels? Har har! In fact I think a lot are very shallow. It's the only culture I know that kids extensively make fun of their Muslim classmates about not being able to eat pork. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the restive South is happening because they've had no respects from their Thai counterparts and have had enough. It's the only culture that still says the word "Negro" without flinching. In fact, as you might already know. Thai people prefer white folks over black folks. Why? I don't know, but I can honestly say, it's mostly the "color" of your skin. That's it. Of course I speak this in general sense as to once again keep in context with the thread. I grew up in Thailand, and I know the goods and the bads of it. I also know what the foreigners come expecting from Thai women. But hey, can you blame them? I'm of course defending Thai women here because not all are like that. "What can you expect from Thai women?" Expect her to be a regular woman. "Why are Thai girls selfish" Same reason as other girls being selfish. I know that this forum is frequent by Farangs mostly, and most of the questions are pretty asked from Farang to another. I hope you do enjoy Thailand, it has a lot to offer. There's also bad sides. People will always be a mix of good and bad, educated and ignorant, but never ever forget why you chose Thailand in the first place. That , In my opinion is the post of the day . Cheers , Jim . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torv Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I'm Thai, and honestly sometimes those threads do rub me the wrong way.However, I know full well what and who they're talking about. Take the selfish Thai girls for example. What part of Thai girls attract "farang" in the first place? If they turn out to be selfish or whatever, then hel_l live with it. If you can't stand her, then go ahead and break up with her. The truth of the matter is I've seen many farangs complaing about how Thai girls are gold digger, then they just went ahead and forgot that it's them that lure those Thai girls with money. Those Thai girls mostly come from impoverish parts of Thailand, and have never been "comfortable" before. If you spoil them at the beginning, then you'd have to keeping doing it. Seriously guys. Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality. Careful your generalising ha ha My wifes comes from one of those poor areas has never gold dug and I dont think this is an excuse for gold digging, maybe insert the word "lazy" or of lower moral standards for some of the girls. Im sure some of the richer ones are equally bad at times. What Torv said rings true in many cases though. Some guys look for a poor girl whom they can attract with the lure of financial stability then they wonder why the woman's main concern is money. Thanks! I'm going to go hide under a rock till the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiangirl Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I get somewhat tired with folks on the board continually painting all Thai people, or Thai men and women, with the same brush. Generalizations and stereotyping went out of style a long time ago, all. Perhaps some of you haven't caught on yet, but it was one of the actual good contributions of the "PC" movement. Topic titles like "selfish Thais" and "Thai male wasters" just rubs me the wrong way. Thanks jbowman, I think this is a much-needed post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torv Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Thanks Jim. I've been using this crazy language (English) for 14 years and I'm still making a bunch of mistakes. Thank the lord, I don't use much of it for work. Good night all. Thanks for making Thailand your home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman1993 Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 I get somewhat tired with folks on the board continually painting all Thai people, or Thai men and women, with the same brush. Generalizations and stereotyping went out of style a long time ago, all. Perhaps some of you haven't caught on yet, but it was one of the actual good contributions of the "PC" movement. Topic titles like "selfish Thais" and "Thai male wasters" just rubs me the wrong way. Thanks jbowman, I think this is a much-needed post. Aww shucks. Just trying to "keep on keeping on..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tod Daniels Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Again we have first worlder's putting their values on third world countries, preaching about being PC, when we live in one of the most openly racist countries I’ve ever seen. Skin color is first, then your social standing in the society and then of course as everywhere $$$. Traveling around the glorious "Land 'O Thais" the three years I've lived here I can only say "in my experience"; most of the generalizations & thai-bashing I read aren't all that far off the mark. By all means, go embrace your inner thai-ness, mind meld with their "Borg-like", xenophobic mentality, but don't lecture people on being more accepting or painting in generalizations. There are no black and white just different shades of gray. That last statement is, of course, a generalization I've got a news flash for you; "We aren't in Kansas anymore Toto". We're in a relatively small sized insignificant developing third world nation in S/E Asia. It is what it is. Everyone doesn't see things through the politically correct rose colored glasses you obviously do. This forum is about the things foreigners face living in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". The good, the bad, and the ugly. Sorry you're being rubbed the wrong way by some posts, but at least you're being rubbed, and that's progress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman1993 Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) Again we have first worlder's putting their values on third world countries, preaching about being PC, when we live in one of the most openly racist countries I’ve ever seen. Skin color is first, then your social standing in the society and then of course as everywhere $$$. Traveling around the glorious "Land 'O Thais" the three years I've lived here I can only say "in my experience"; most of the generalizations & thai-bashing I read aren't all that far off the mark. By all means, go embrace your inner thai-ness, mind meld with their "Borg-like", xenophobic mentality, but don't lecture people on being more accepting or painting in generalizations. There are no black and white just different shades of gray. That last statement is, of course, a generalization I've got a news flash for you; "We aren't in Kansas anymore Toto". We're in a relatively small sized insignificant developing third world nation in S/E Asia. It is what it is. Everyone doesn't see things through the politically correct rose colored glasses you obviously do. This forum is about the things foreigners face living in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". The good, the bad, and the ugly. Sorry you're being rubbed the wrong way by some posts, but at least you're being rubbed, and that's progress... I don't recall giving a lecture on the subject. And, trust me, as a college professor, you would KNOW if I was lecturing you, lol. Im trying to figure out which highlighted opinion is your actual stance, since they seem to contradict each other. But then again maybe they don't. Its a rather difficult opinion to decode, in any event. Edited July 18, 2007 by jbowman1993 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 It’s all very nice to pat each other on the back and swear to be more PC. But the vast majority of the discussion on TV is cultural observation. To discuss modern cultures without using some generalizations is fairly difficult if not impossible. If you are going to talk about New Yorkers you would need to generalize somewhat to distinguish them from Los Angeles residents or Texans. Right now you are getting a picture n your head of these groups and that picture is indeed a generalization. But it is also a true refection of your opinion. The problem with striving to be PC is it makes your communication fairly plastic and sanitary. Not like the real world at all. It is better to make generalizations and acknowledge that is what you are doing. The most important thing is to be realistic without being offensive, which of course is sometimes impossible. I could say that in North America, men like pizza and women like chocolate, a very broad generalization but hardly offensive to most. Also very close to the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minburi Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 To generalize is easy. And its based on the dreaded word to assume. The person will take things at face value and they paint it so they know what is going and most times they are incorrect as each situation is different. Here in Bangkok when every tourists see me and my Thai wife they do not even consider we are married. They just generalize. Its just the scowl I hate that some get when they assume that I am a sex tourist as my Wife is young looking. (But it has gotten better now with my 2 little girls but I still see it every so offen) But its a 2 way street. Alot of Thai guys glare at my wife for being with male who is not Thai sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman1993 Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) It’s all very nice to pat each other on the back and swear to be more PC. But the vast majority of the discussion on TV is cultural observation. To discuss modern cultures without using some generalizations is fairly difficult if not impossible.If you are going to talk about New Yorkers you would need to generalize somewhat to distinguish them from Los Angeles residents or Texans. Right now you are getting a picture n your head of these groups and that picture is indeed a generalization. But it is also a true refection of your opinion. The problem with striving to be PC is it makes your communication fairly plastic and sanitary. Not like the real world at all. It is better to make generalizations and acknowledge that is what you are doing. The most important thing is to be realistic without being offensive, which of course is sometimes impossible. I could say that in North America, men like pizza and women like chocolate, a very broad generalization but hardly offensive to most. Also very close to the truth There is a flip side to your view of PC. It asks people to take other's thoughts and feelings into account, and not just focus on their own narrow view of the world. Having respect for things that others value is not asking you to take on those values, merely to acknowledge that others find them to be important. The problem with your broad generalization above is that it is not that kind that is commonly found here. TV'ers don't go around saying "Thai men like som tam, and Thai women like tom yum". Instead we are making statements like "Thai men are all wasters who should be locked up or sent to the army" and "Thai women are gold diggers who are after the farang's money. There is a huge difference between those examples, and the fact that some don't understand that is a big part of the problem, imo. Edited July 18, 2007 by jbowman1993 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaiWai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) While generalisations can be dangerous, we are all shaped to some extent by our cultures; often rather more than we realise. Cultural values, and differences, are measurable. And yes, of course there are exceptions to every "rule". In this context, I'd like to re-quote an excellent article about Thai values (posted previously by someone else on this forum.) Thailand : the Thai National Characteristics The Thai Character This section (slightly abbreviated, edited, and without footnotes) was sourced from another website with permission. You can find the reference and author below the text. While we personally think that cultural differences between people are often greatly overstated, the characteristics of Thai people as described below might ring a bell for those of us who have stayed awhile in Thailand, and this essay may be beneficial for those considering a long term stay for work or pleasure here. The positive aspects of the Thai character (find them throughout this page) certainly contribute to the number of foreigners who have made Thailand their permanent home. Thai National Character This lengthy essay will focus on the social cultural forces that influence Thai social behaviors to the extent that they constitute persistent behavioral patterns, thus the personality of the Thai people. Conceptually, value systems, as relatively stable structures of culture held by representative members of the culture, can reflect to quite some extent, the national character of that culture. The Thai value systems, derived from the empirical data from two national samples, as conducted by Suntaree Komi, which show a remarkable overall consistency overtime and across groups, have provided some highly consistent and culturally meaningful data, indicating the cognitive dimension underlying the Thai social system. This, consequently, enables her to further identify 9 value clusters, based on the relative correlations among values and through use of inter-subjectivity method from a number of scholars familiar with Thai culture and personality. The 9 value clusters according to the priority of importance, representing the dimensions whereby characteristics of individuals (group) and national character can be meaningfully described. Characterizing a national culture, of course, does not mean that every person in the culture has all the characteristic dimensions arranged in the same order of importance. Therefore, in describing the Thai national characteristics, we are referring to the common characteristic elements within the Thai culture - the national norms, or group norms in case of describing particular group. This should be kept in mind when interpreting the 9 value clusters in the following section. The grouping of the 9 value clusters for explaining the Thai national character is based more on the Instrumental values - the common means for the relatively varying goals, due to the nature as well as to its findings. By nature, Instrumental values, as modes of behaviors serving as means, instrumental to the attainment of the goals, reflected effective social interaction patterns of a culture. Logically, different cultures may have subtly socialized different means to attain goals. Therefore, the findings of Thai Instrumental values should be able to reveal the culturally learned patterns of social interactions, whereby Thai people learn to use them to survive and function effectively in Thai society. Together with in-depth studies, research data render support to the overall picture that the Thai social system is first and foremost a hierarchically structured society where individualism and interpersonal relationship are of utmost importance. And it is reflected in the following 9 value clusters on a continuum of psychological importance from high to low, as presented below. It should be borne in mind moreover that the higher the order, the closer to the self and more likely to be activated to guide actions. 1. Ego Orientation 2. Grateful Relationship Orientation 3. Smooth Interpersonal Relationship Orientation 4. Flexibility and Adjustment Orientation 5. Religio-Psychical Orientation 6. Education and Competence Orientation 7. Interdependence Orientation 8. Fun-Pleasure Orientation 9. Achievement-Task Orientation 1. Ego Orientation The Thai are first and foremost ego oriented, characterized by the highest ego value of being Independent- being oneself (Pen tua khong tua eng), and a very high value of Self esteem. Closer inspection reveals that it is constantly ranked top priority, with the exception of farmers who ranked it relatively low (8th) among all Thai groups. Thai people have a very big ego, a deep sense of independence, pride and dignity. They cannot tolerate any violation of the "ego" self. Despite the cool and calm front, they can be easily provoked to strong emotional reactions, if the "self' or anybody close to the "self" like one's father or mother, is insulted. There are countless number of examples in the media, where people can readily injure or kill another person for seemingly trivial insults. As an example, at a party in which the host was celebrating his winning the black-market lottery, a guest (guest A) was getting impatient for the delayed local puppet show and started making noises. Angry when he was reprimanded by another guest (guest , he yelled at guest B to mind his own business. Apparently, guest B's big ego cannot take guest A's remark, he beat A's head with a whisky bottle, and gunned him down right between his eyes. Another was the case of former Deputy Prime Minister General Chavalit Yongjaiyudh who promptly resigned from the Cabinet in June 1990, after PM's Office Minister Police Captain Chalerm Yoobamrung criticized General Chavalit's wife as a "walking jewelry case" in public. This incident triggered off the Supreme Commander General Sunthorn Kongsomppong to defend the former Army C-in-C's dignity by demanding the Prime Minister to remove Chalerm. The sequence of these overt conflicts contributed to the resignation of the Prime Minister in December 9, 1990. Although Prime Minister Chatichai reshuffled his Cabinet, the open rift with the military elite was irreparably widened. Basically, it boils down to the question of "face" and "dignity". Violation to the "ego" self cannot be tolerated. Numerous examples can be found everyday to illustrate this important value orientation. Many analyses use Buddhist influence to explain why the Thai are so gentle, ever-smiling, non-aggressive, affable and have high tolerance for uncertainty. However, they fail to explain the sudden emotional outbursts of Thai behavior. Incidents of violent actions ranging from breaking up of relations, verbal and physical fights, to killing, can be found both in the less religious urban Thai as well as in the more religious oriented rural Thai, and more so with the hooligan (Nak-leng) class who can easily be provoked with just a non-verbal stare. Since the "ego" of the Thai is so important, it naturally follows that the Thai have the "avoidance mechanism" to fend off unnecessary clashes. And this intricate mechanism is delicately and keenly observed by all parties involved in an interaction. It is only cases where indirect means are not used that interactions will result in negative feelings and emotional outburst if provoked in public. Therefore, using the "Buddhism-explain-all" blanket approach, that Buddhism teaches non-self, avoidance of emotional extremes, detachment, etc., might have missed quite a bit of reality. This "ego" orientation is the root value underlying various key values of the Thai, such as "face-saving", "criticism-avoidance, and the Kreng jai attitude which roughly means "feeling considerate for another person, not want to impose or cause other person trouble, or hurt his/her feeling". The "face" is identical with "ego" and is very sensitive. Since the Thai give tremendous emphasis on "face" and "ego", preserving one another's "ego" is the basic rule of all Thai interactions both on the continuum of familiarity-unfamiliarity, and the continuum of superior-inferior, with difference only in degree. Even a superior would also observe not to intrude too much of the subordinate or the inferior's ego. For a Thai, this is not something to be taken for granted. They intuitively observe this root of interpersonal social rules. Each knows his appropriate role, appropriate means to handle interactions when roles come into contact, and how far one can go, and so on. 2. Grateful Relationship Orientation For a culture in which relationship is also very important besides "ego", it is not surprising to find a number of relationship related values emerged and secure high ranking orders in the cognitive systems of the people. In general, the presentation of most Thai interactions are honest and sincere, and the Thai are bound for sincere and deep reciprocal relationships. And the deepest one is the psychologically invested Bunkhun relationship, as opposed to the "etiquettical" or "transactional" relationship. Bunkhun (indebted goodness) is a psychological bond between someone who, out of sheer kindness and sincerity, renders another person the needed helps and favors, and the latter's remembering of the goodness done and his ever-readiness to reciprocate the kindness. The Bunkhun relationship is thus based on the value of gratitude. Therefore, this value orientation is characterized by the highly valued Grateful quality in a person, and by the patterns of Bunkhun or grateful relationship. Reciprocity of kindness, particularly the value of being Grateful is highly valued characteristic trait in Thai society. Unlike some other nations, especially in the West, the Thai have been socialized to value this Grateful (Katanyu) quality in a person. A person should be grateful to persons who render Bunkhun (goodness, helps, favors, etc.) to him. By being Grateful, it implies two aspects: Roo Bunkhun, which means to know, acknowledge, or constantly bear in heart the kindness done. Tob thaen bunkhun, which means to reciprocate the kindness whenever there are opportunities. It is an exchange of relations that is not bound by time or distance. Although the person who renders help, kindness, and favors, is usually done without expectation of anything in return, the obligated person must be Grateful. And Bunkhun must be returned, often on a continuous basis and in a variety of ways, because Bunkhun should not and cannot be measured quantitatively in material terms. It is an ongoing, binding of good reciprocal feelings and lasting relationship. Therefore, being Grateful to Bunkhun constitutes the root of any deep, meaningful relationship and friendship - be it grateful bond towards one's parents, or to a relative who supports one through school, or a teacher who provides one with knowledge, or a good friend who helps one out at times of troubles, etc. Certainly, there are degrees of Bunkhun, depending largely on the subjective perception of the obligated person, the degree of need, the amount of help, and the degree of concern of the person who renders help. But what is important is the fact that the Thai are brought up to value this process of gratefulness - the process of reciprocity of goodness done, and the ever-readiness to reciprocate. Time and distance are not the factors to diminish the Bunkhun. It is an important base for Thai relationships. While being Grateful is a dominant value underlying important relationships, there are variations found among different groups, which help to explain certain observable behavioral patterns. S. Komin reported that rural people value this characteristic trait significantly higher that the urban Bangkokians. In fact, the national rural sample ranked it the most important value of all, while the Bangkokians ranked it 4th. Moreover, inspection across occupational groups reveals that farmers ranked it top significant order, while government officials and students ranked it 4th and 5th respectively. This indeed explains the congenial, warm and sincere relationship and atmosphere one feels when entering the rural area. 3. Smooth Interpersonal Relationship Orientation Unlike some Western cultures whose top values tend to focus on Self-actualization, Ambition and achievement, down-playing such values of Self-control and Politeness, the Thai, after pricing "ego" and "a grateful relationship", place high value on a group of 'other-directed' social interaction values - all added up to project a picture of smooth, kind, pleasant, no-conflict interpersonal interactions. This orientation is characterized by the preference for a non-assertive, polite and humble type of personality (expressed through appearance, manners, and interpersonal approach), as well as the preference for a relaxed, and pleasant interaction which accounts for the "smiling" and "friendly" aspects of the Thai people, fascinating most foreign visitors. Using Komin's terminology, this group of `other-directed' social interaction values is called "social smoothing" values. They are projected by the following values, listed according to their rank order of importance: 1. Care and Consideration 2. Kindness and Helpfulness 3. Responsiveness to Situations and Opportunities 4. Self-Control, Tolerance and Restraint 5. Politeness and Humbleness 6. Calmness and Cautiousness 7. Content 8. Social Relations S. Komin reported that the first two values - Care and Consideration, and Responsiveness to Situations and Opportunities - have never slipped from the high value group. Moreover the whole group of "social smoothing" values have consistently shown to have very few variations across groups and over time. Almost no significant differences were found when considering different backgrounds, such as sex, education level, occupation, wealth, political affiliation, or religion.. This finding is indeed exciting, because it suggests that, more than anything else, the consistency across groups and over time, is due to the uniform perception from the Thai of all walks of life, and that these values are deeply internalized and are actively functional in the everyday life of the Thai. And the Thai are intuitively keen in observing and practicing these subtle social rules. 3.1. Core of "Social Smoothing" Values What constitutes the core and essence of this group of "social smoothing" values? As a group, each of these values reflects certain aspect of interpersonal interaction traits or goals. Among them, the core value rests on the value of Care and Consideration, the highest and thus psychologically more significant value, as it indicates the deepest reason for the surface smooth and pleasant interpersonal interactions. This is obviously a Thai cultural-laden value, and an important means to maintain or preserve one another's feeling and ego (Raksa nam jai kan). This value shares the closest meaning with the concept of Kreng jai mentioned earlier in relation to "ego" preserving. While Kreng jai is a base concept, Raksa nam jai kan or Care and Consideration slightly emphasizes more the interactional aspect of the concept. The cognition of the Thai social interaction projected by the group of social smoothing values, is as follows: that at all time, one shall be careful not to hurt another person's feeling ("ego"), for example, not to criticize as well as not to reject another person's kindness or good intention, even though it is contrary to one's own feelings. The fact that one disagrees with another person's opinion or is not convenient or comfortable to accept another person's kindness, etc., does not entitle him/her to hurt the other's "ego". Therefore, being flexible (Responsive to situations and opportunities) in not doggedly forcing and asserting one's own desire at times of potential differences and conflicts, is of prime importance in the Thai society. Besides, showing of Nam jai (literally means `water from the heart', ie., kindness, consideration, and sincere concerns) in being Kind and helpful, is something to give out without any expectation in return. The Thai are not calculative in the showing of kindness and help. This is why it has been overtly observed by foreigners that Thai interactions are usually smooth pleasant, and "often accompanied by genuine kindness and an interest in the well-being of the other." There are countless daily examples to illustrate this Thai social interaction behavioral pattern. This pattern retains even at unusual events, like coup d'état. The coup d'état in Thailand, as often as we have, are not like anywhere else. As expressed by the Japanese ambassador to Thailand in a television interview, they are "friendly changing of government leaders" or Palace guards, hardly bloody. The deposed Prime Ministers were often escorted out of the country to live for a period of time, before they were allowed back. 3.2. Successful Personality Besides showing positive gestures of sincere kindness and concerns, in order for interaction to go smoothly, it also requires on the part of interactors, such characteristic traits as having a certain degree of Self Control, Tolerance and Restraint , as well as Politeness and Humbleness. This polite and humble "front" or polite and humble approach is very important for the Thai, since it soothes one another's "ego". It naturally follows that showing of one's aggressiveness and superiority, even overt self-confidence, more often than not, brings about only negative perception of Man sai (feeling indicating a mixture of jealousy and disgust) from the interactor and audience in general. Frequently, this term is used to comment about that person behind his back. Time and again has proved that a successful personality in the Thai cultural context, is often one of competence and substance, but most important of all, one has to have a soft and polite appearance, presentation and approach - as best illustrated in the Thai phrase Orn Nork Khaeng nai which literally means "soft outward, solid and firm inside". A number of Western educated highly competent and superiority projecting personalities, known for their straightforwardness (Khid yangrai ko phood yang nan, meaning `Speak what one thinks') and integrity in standing-up for what they believe, cannot stay long in the organization, after receiving only indirect, slow and non-cooperative performances for a while. Even in religious circles, which are supposed to be more spiritual in orientation, again there are many cases of highly competent, no-nonsense, more outspoken, more principled and achievement oriented intellectuals, who are often blocked by the typical silent boycott or passive cooperation. For interactions to be smoothly processed and without overt conflicts, such characteristics of being Calm and Cautious - Jai yen, the ability to calm oneself as well as calmly control situations by taking a slow, and careful step - is indeed of prime importance. This value is activated when a Thai faces problems or conflicts. And all these "social smoothing" values purport to maintain good Social Relations. These "social smoothing" values relatedly project a picture of smooth, kind, pleasant, no conflict, interpersonal interactions - in short, the surface harmony as observed by many. They are the necessary means to function successfully in Thai society. And the Thai are intuitively keen in observing and practicing these subtle implicit social rules too. It is however important to note that behind the smooth, pleasant, and polite interaction, is the respect for one another's ego, dignity, and psychological integrity - the core concern of not to hurt others. It is the balance between the positive "ego" self on the one hand, and on the other hand, keeping the smooth and pleasant interactions as the means to preserve one another's ego as well as an end in itself from which the Thai derive pleasure and genuine enjoyment. It is this element of the positive value of the "ego" self that lies beneath the relaxed personality and the relaxed and Sanuk (fun) interactions, enjoying certain measure of independence by being one's own master without disturbing others, ever adjusting one's equilibrium to environment, while strictly observing all those interpersonal and interactional social rules. This is the core cognition behind the behavioral pattern of the everyday life social interactions of the Thai. And it is this value of smooth and pleasant interpersonal interaction that gives Thai people the image of being very "friendly" people, and Thailand, the "Land of smile". 4. Flexibility and Adjustment Orientation Besides ego and smooth interpersonal relations values, the Thai are flexible and situation-oriented. This value in fact consistently scores high in the cognition of Thai people, regardless of different backgrounds and groups. In general, for the Thai, there is nothing so serious as to be unbendable or unchangeable. This flexibility value orientation is somehow correlated with a laxness in principle, and consequently reflected in certain behavioral pattern like, "decision-shifting" and corruption. 4.1. Flexibility Over Principle and Ideology This flexibility value in response to situations and opportunities, manifests itself as a core value regulating a number of conspicuous values and behavioral patterns. Because of this value, it is not surprising to find "decision-shifting" behavioral pattern quite common for the Thai, such as vote-switching, position-switching, or even switching of principles. Those who have observed political behaviors of the Thai Members of the Parliament (MPs) year after year, would understand why many MPs switched their votes at the crucial time, switching their positions, or even switching one's political party, for no reasons of ideology or principles. Basic to these "switching" behaviors is always the personal conflict based on the "self", the "in-group", and the situation, that are the main motivating forces. It is always the "person" and the "situation" over principles and systems. Hundreds of political reports that appeared in the media can testify to this. The same pattern moreover occurs in the formation of political parties. Their policies and ideologies can hardly be differentiated. Factions in the Thai political system are indeed not based on ideological or policy differences, rather they are based on personal conflicts and "in-group" interests. 4.2. Flexibility and Corruption Since the Thai are not principle oriented, and with the high value for personal relationships, they also appear not to be strictly law-oriented. In practice, principles and laws are ever-adjustable to fit persons and situations. In other words, laws are rules laid out in papers; but what is wrong or right depends not on the rules, but instead on who the person is or whom the person knows. A prominent Thai businessman ironically described this phenomenon in a seminar: We Thai are not a society of law; we are a society of relationship.... It is not what a person has done that's wrong; it's who he is.... If he is your cousin, or your friend, then what he has done is not wrong. But if another person does the same thing, and it's somebody you don't like, then what he has done is wrong... This is the reason why law enforcement in Thailand hardly works. If it does, it is selectively enforced on those who are either nobody or do not know anybody, or who have no money to ease their wrong-doings or buy their way out of problems. As a society of relationship, it is easy and common for an officer, upon request from even friends of friends, to pull out, cross out or destroy a traffic citation issued. For the sake of a smooth relationship, officers would overlook, turn a blind eye, or keep silent. The point here is that, while the basic Thai value system should not be blamed as the major factor for corruption, it definitely does not help to inhibit corruption either. In general, this characteristic "Flexibility and Adjustment" value orientation has perhaps accounted for varieties of behavioral patterns, ranging from the facilitation of ethnic assimilation process, to the tendency of being corruption prone. In addition, it provides a deeper understanding to the various existing interpretations of the Thai being "unpredictable", "non-committing", "irresponsible" or even "selfish" and "opportunistic", by foreigners. 5. Religio-Psychical Orientation Theravada Buddhism, as the religion of the country, professed by 95% of the total population, undoubtedly has directly or indirectly exerted a strong influence on the people's everyday life. However to see how much such influence is actually perceived and functioning in the everyday life of the Thai people and thus differentiating them from other cultural group, might not be simple and needs closer scrutiny. Komin's findings of value priority show that the value for Religious and Spiritual life has secured a very high and important place in the cognition of Thai people in general. There is no doubt that Buddhism has a conscious significant role in the everyday life of the Thai. The attitudinal data of 1981 show that most Thai (93.6%) perceived religion as important and having influence in their life, with more intense religious influence found in the rural Thai than Bangkokians, and more with the less educated than the highly educated, the poorer than the richer, and so on. It is very interesting to note here that the Thai-Muslims are clearly differentiated from the Thai-Buddhists for their extremely high value of religion. With regards to religious activities, likewise, the Thai are constantly engaged in merit-making, and numerous other religious ceremonies. These activities are religious rituals. And as a Buddhist country, there are such activities to perform all year round, at home, at work, and in the community. Such occasions like, merit-makings on one's birthday, a new house, new company, new building, celebrations of anniversaries, etc., not to mention those of festivals, customs, and religious days. It is no wonder that the Komin's national samples showed high rate of these ritual religious behaviors and ceremony participation. However, to which extent these religious attitudes and activities of Buddhist rites and customs reflect the depth and functions of Buddhism is another matter. 5.1. Psychological Function of Some Religious Concepts The essence of Buddhism characterizes the truth of the phenomenal world of everyday life experiences - that everyday world is caught up in desires and thirst or Kilet, which inevitably produces karmic responses, leading to a cycle of rebirths. And the Buddhist doctrinal religious goal is to escape from the clutches of karma and the cycle of rebirths (Samsara), by separating oneself from the world of illusions, and thereby gaining wisdom and insight into the karmically conditioned world, underlying the phenomenal world; and ultimately reach nirvana. Ideally, all Buddhists more or less believe in this doctrine. However, the more important question is to what extent this ideal teaching of Buddhism is actually taken and interpreted in everyday life experiences, and under what conditions those religious concepts are mostly used. Knowing so will surely contribute to a better understanding of the Thai social behavior. Reincarnation-Nirvana While the Thai are seemingly overwhelmed by the perceived influence of Buddhism in their life, most of them have little deep knowledge about it. In general, the Thai do not make conscious effort to reach nirvana, nor do they fully and succinctly believe in it. It is not in the cognition of the general Thai to think of reaching the ultimate state of enlightenment. In fact, Bunnag, in her careful analysis of the social matrices of Thai Buddhism, has drawn attention to the striking fact that none of the Thai monks whom she interviewed "appeared to consider Nirvana a relevant goal for which to strive." A Thai would not be too surprised with the finding, because it is an everyday life reality. However, in spite of such irrelevance of these two "other-worldly" doctrines, Buddhism is still perceived as important at all times. Karma Among all "other-worldly" doctrines, the doctrine of karma is the most functional one - in the sense that it always finds its place in everyday life interaction. In reality, the concept of karma has almost always been used in "after-event" description or attributions, with the differentiation between "good karma" (Bun wassana) and the "bad karma" usually referred to as Kam. The Thai generally believe in the unequal Bun wassana of each person. Each person is born with unequal results of predestined goodness (good karma). The Thai always use this concept in situations to attribute to someone else's success, fortune, high status, promotion, or having good family, good children, and so on. It is used to refer to self only as a conversational ploy to humbly refuse any suggestion for higher status or anything associated with success or promotion, etc. And it is always used in a negative form, like "I don't have the Bun wassana for...". In cases when it is used to truly reflect one's feeling, it indicates psychological acceptance of one's failure and other's achievement, attributing the cause of one's failure and the cause of other's achievement to something beyond one's ability. Thus, it helps to reduce tremendous psychological pressures on one's inability to measure up to one's achievement goals. With regards to the concept of Kam (bad karma), it is found that the Thai usually use this concept in situations associated with negative events, bad fortunes, tragedies, disfavor, injustice, etc., that happened to oneself or others. Whether or not one is responsible for the mishaps that occurred to oneself, the cause of the mishaps or failure is attributed to one's Kam. Illustration of this is the common phrase: "It is my Kam to ... (have such and such consequence)", which is often said in a tone of accepting the state of being without ability to change one's lot. The belief of the "bad karma catching up with you" as in the phrase Kam taam sanong is evident. It is usually used to refer to the situation when misfortune happened to somebody who has been known to have had done something bad in the past. It is used for self only as a caution not to do anything bad, particularly to others, because the Kam will catch up. The range of situations to which karma is used to attribute is widespread, covering all kinds of behavioral consequences, including those of one's own doing. In case of those who consciously know the results of their own doings, the use of this scapegoat concept psychologically helps to rid them of their conscience. The more one uses this concept, particularly when consequences of wrong doing is involved, the more one's sense of right and wrong is blurred. Thus, it explains the meaning of such often heard phrases, like "Kam jing jing thii thook jab" - meaning "It's my Kam (or my predestined bad luck) to be arrested". It is not his wrongdoing that should be blamed, but rather the bad luck of the situation that he is caught that is to be blamed. Indeed these religious notions have tremendous psychological functions. More often than not, they are "after-action" rationalization or justification. They serve psychologically as a defense mechanism for a whole range of negative experiences. 5.2. Superstitious Beliefs and Behaviour Layman Buddhists in general do not have in-depth knowledge about Buddhism, but they have enough general concepts to make use of them to serve one's psychological equilibrium. In practice, they believe in spirits, in astrology, and practice a variety of magical, superstitious behaviors. Irrespective of group differences, this belief in supernatural power is a dominant characteristic of the Thai. Manifestations of supernatural belief are prevalent in everyday life, through belief in spirits, in predestinated Duang (one's personal astrological star), in fortune-telling, in Bon barn sarn klaw (making wishes and vows to the spirits), and in black magic and Sadoa Khroa (supernatural rituals to stop bad fortune), etc. The influence of superstitious beliefs is so deep to the extent that even Western educated Ph.D. scientists would refuse to fathom the scientific and religious conflicts, and would never forget to wear their charms and amulets when traveling, for instance. Apparently, superstitious beliefs and behaviors in various forms are self illustrative of the Thai belief-behavioral systems. As a check of some superstitious beliefs and practices, the results of Komin's Thai Value Studies revealed that for certain superstitious behaviors like Doo mo doo (fortune-telling) and Phook duang (having one's personal star read by fortune-teller), and Bon baan saan klaw (making vows to spirits), the urban Bangkokians engaged in such behaviors more often than the rural people; the educated Thai more than the uneducated; the Government officials of various levels as well as the hawkers did more than the farmers, laborers, etc. 6. Education and Competence Orientation With respect to the value of education and its related values, the findings of the Thai Value studies revealed that knowledge-for-knowledge sake value does not receive high value in the cognition of the Thai in general. Education has been perceived more as a "means" of climbing up the social ladder, of gaining higher prestige and higher salary, rather than an end value in itself. This functional value of being labelled as educated is very clear in everyday life experience, and indicates as well that the Thai people value and give importance to form more than content or substances. 6.1. Form over Content Value The value of "form" more than "content" seems to underlie a number of behavioral pattern, ranging from bribing to getting good grades. Since the Thai people place highest value on the "ego" self, the "face", and social relations, these decorative external labels, degrees, decorations, etc., thus naturally become important. The possession of them would identify the owner with the respected class of the society. These empty labels are highly valued as indicators of prestige and honors, something to be possessed, with or without the suitable worth - the content. However, since values are always used in relative terms, there is no intention to mean that there are no Thai who would value content and work diligently against obstacles to achieve their ideal goals. The fact is, while there are Thai who are serious workers and who value competence and substance, there are also those who, not only value the reverse more, but would seek to possess those decorative forms, either by hook or by crook. 6.2. Form and Material Possession Value Most Thai and foreign observers of the Thai would agree that the Thai value good form and appearance, as well as material possessions. They are particular about appearance and dressing, in quantity and quality with designer labels, and brand names of all kinds. This is why imitated merchandises make good business, for they cater to those who really cannot afford them. This appearance conscious value is an everyday life reality. As a matter of fact, Komin's sociolinguistic analysis of conversational topics in Thai social interactions shows that one of the common conversational themes, is appreciating one another's clothing and its accessories at length. Such "form" and "material possession" oriented behaviors are evident in all levels of social class. People bought what they do not really need, but to show that they also possess them. Frugality is one of the high values of the Thai. "Spending more than one's means" is a common syndrome. One foreigner in Thailand did not understand why his Thai friend decided, much beyond his means, to buy a 3 million baht power Mercedes-Benz. The answer received was that he was the managing director of a company. As for the lower class, this over-spending syndrome has become the core cause of the endless circle of poverty, now that everything can be bought on hire-purchase basis. 6.3. Form And Perception of Development The Thai generally value material symbols, as they are seen as "forms" of being "modern" (Thansamai) and "developed". Even government officials are stuck with these misleading "forms". "Development" has often been equated with roads, electricity, refrigerators, motorcycles, etc. The story of a Buddhist monk's work in a poor village in the Northeastern region is quite illustrative. The monk used to think of development in terms of roads and electricity, etc. Determined to fight poverty and backwardness, he convinced the villagers to give up their land to build a new road that would link their homes to the city. "Development" did quickly stream in. Motorcycles started roaring into the village. Refrigerators replaced earthen jars for keeping drinking water. Electric rice cookers, televisions, jeans, lipsticks, shampoo, fragrant soaps and other consumer goods advertised on television became integral part of the villagers' lives, while gambling and drinking become more widespread. And the villagers plunged deeper into debts. Disillusioned, the monk changed his views, and that was when real change began to take place in this small Northeastern village of Surin Province. Through meditation and Buddhist teachings, he got the villagers to analyze and identify the chronic disease of their poverty, to understand that their gambling, drinking and unnecessary expenses have worsened their situations, and to help them think out means to ease their problems. The villagers made religious vow to decrease expenses on unnecessary products, and they revitalized their community spirits, collaborated on a series of projects from the village's Rice Bank, Fertilizer Bank, "Friendship farming", etc. And now the village has retained their self-reliance. It is fortunate that this village somehow managed to pull through the dilemma. How many more of the country's 55,000 villages are there that are trapped in the misconception and misguided road to "development". 7. Interdependence Orientation This value orientation reflects more of the community collaboration spirits, and in a sense the value of coexistence and interdependence. The collaborative behavior is a dominant behavioral pattern, particularly in the rural community. Coorporation in rice agriculture by members of the village is nothing new in Thailand. They cooperate in maintaining the small irrigation canals that water their fields, and have to agree on plans to share water. They help one another throughout the cycle of rice-growing, from planting to harvesting. In other spheres, they also cooperate in house-building, as well as in the psychologically and culturally important events, like life crises, serious illness, births, ordinations, and funerals. This is succinctly reflected through the value priorities of the rural Thai, where the two highest discrepancy values that distinguished the rural Thai from the urban Thai are the religious value and the community-oriented value of Brotherhood spirit in helping one another and for being Interdependent and mutually helpful. These values of interdependence and mutual help enhance the value of coexistence. Coupled with the higher order values of "ego", "smooth interpersonal relationship" and "flexibility", these values help to facilitate the coexistence of different ethnic groups in Thailand. Better still, they help to make Thailand the rare example of successful assimilation of ethnic groups like Muslims and Chinese, saving Thailand from the painful experiences of ethnic conflicts and scandals. Although interdependence orientation of helping each other is a dominant rural community value which might help stimulate neighbors to participate in different cultural and religious vents, basically it also requires the "flexibility" value orientation of the Thai not to shun off other cultural groups, that make cultural assimilation successful. 8. Fun-Pleasure Orientation Thailand has been known as the "Land of smile", a stereotyped image that comes along with the much-talked-about myth of the Thai being easy-going, enjoying the everyday routine pleasures of life with a happy carelessness, not letting troubles touch them easily, viewing life as something to be enjoyed not endured, and would not do anything that is not Sanuk (to have fun, to enjoy oneself and to have good time). They are easily bored or Buua, and therefore lack of the "stick-to-it-ive-ness" or the serious commitment and sustained level of hard (and often unpleasant) work, which is essentially required for the success of industrial undertakings. They are generally lethargic, lazy, unaggressive, and fond of having fun and leisure. To which extent this myth with all its traits is true and understood in the right perspective? Evidently, many writings on this myth are derivations from the primary sources of Ruth Benedict (1943) and Embree's (1950) anthropological observations, and the application and implication of which should be subjected to further verification and analysis. Komin made a very clear and convincing comment on the matter. First of all, the general conclusion of the Thai as being lethargic, lazy, unaggressive, and fun-leisure loving, is meaningless. It is almost the standardized description of any agricultural, non-industrialized society, be it Thai, Indonesian, or Micronesians in the Pacific Islands, etc. They are often general attributes given to the more relaxed way of life of the rural community dwellers, as opposed to the more hectic way of life of the competitive industrialized city dwellers. Culturally, it is meaningless in not being able to help distinguish the Thai cultural traits from other cultures. 8.1. Nature of Fun-Pleasure Oriented Behaviors of the Thai Empirical data show quite a different picture from that of the aforementioned myth. This type of myth seems to catch only the outward presentation of the "fun" and the "lightness" approach to things of the Thai. Komin in fact looked at and explained this myth from two aspects: the abhorrence of hard-work, and the fun-leisure and "smiling" aspects. For the issue of abhorrence of hard-work, research data showed that the private sector and the lower class in fact did work hard, and ranked work over fun-loving and pleasure. It is the Bangkokians and particularly the government officials who preferred fun-loving over work, and generally known to be very lax and inefficient in job performance. As for the fun-leisure and "smiling" aspect, it can be explained as the resulting behavioral pattern from keeping a pleasant and smooth face-to-face interpersonal interaction, which is a higher value. In so doing, most Thai social interactions are pleasant, light, might be superficial, yet fun and humorous in nature. Joyful behaviors can be observed in any Thai party, which is usually characterized by small talks, gossips, jokes, teasing one another, making fun of all kinds of non-personal inconsequential things and events, including playing with words, using puns and kham phuan (reverse of syllables for taboo word), etc. in a clever, humorous and amusing fashion. Imitations of Chinese and Indian speaking Thai are always good for a laugh. Besides these essential mechanisms of the so-called "social cosmetics" which are so deeply rooted that they appear as genuine presentation to project the "smiling" image, it is also a projection of the basic inclination of being kind, generous, sympathetic towards other human beings, strangers and foreigners included. For instance, it is not uncommon to find a Thai traveling with his friend in a tour van, offering sweets or fruits that he is having with his friends, to the foreigners who happened to be sitting nearby, a share of his joy of eating, as if they were from his own community. Some foreigners might feel uneasy with such show of familiarity treatment. For the Thai, it is nothing special, nor having a purpose, but just a friendly gesture, and not expecting anything in return. Definitely, the Thai are not xenophobic, which could possibly due to the fact that they have never been colonized, and thus adding to the friendly interactions with foreigners. Finally, is this "smiling" and friendly interaction, with lots of fun and joyful behavior, a true indicator of valuing fun and pleasure as an end in itself, or it is a necessary means to function effectively in Thai society? The research findings suggested that this fun-pleasure value functions as the imperative mechanism, as means to support and maintain the more important interpersonal interaction value. When asked "Life is short, so one should enjoy as much as one can", the results show that there are more disagreements to the statement than agreement. Particularly with regards to planning for the future, the majority of the respondents disagreed to the statement that: "Future is uncertain, so there is no need for planning for one' future". 8.2. Everyday Life Concerns and Worries Despite the pleasant, relaxed and joyful behaviors as their everyday life means of interactions, the Thai as human beings do have their concerns and worries. What occupies their minds in their daily existence could be therefore an interesting aspect upon looking at the Thai people. 9. Achievement-Task Orientation This orientation is characterized by the achievement motivation need emphasizing internal drive towards achievement through hard work. According to McClelland (1961), the achievement need within individuals, would promote entrepreneurial achievement or the achievement of professional excellence, which in turn would propel economic growth. Believing that hard work alone will propel on the road to success, Western work ethic has emphasized personal achievement - what one has done or "achieved" through one's best ability and hard work. And basic to this is the focus on the inherent value of work itself and work related attitudes for that matter, striving to attain professional excellence. However, to which extent the Thai score in this perspective, and what is the nature of achievement motivation of the Thai? 9.1. Thai Achievement-Task Orientation The Komin's research data showed that achievement value of being Ambitious and Hardworking to attain one's goals, has been consistently ranked as the least important value (the 23rd) in relation to the rest, with little variation across groups and over time, with the exception of two groups - Thai businessmen who ranked it the 19th, and highest of all Thai groups was the Thai of Chinese descendants who ranked it the 13th. This finding evidently substantiated certain attributes of Chinese characters that accounted for their success story of "rags-to-riches". However, all Thai, without exception, ranked hardworking achievement value much lower than the group of social relationship values. Furthermore, this value ranking result was highly and consistently substantiated by the work achievement related attitudes and behaviors. For example, in a forced choice statement of choosing the importance between "maintaining good relationship" as opposed to "seriously devoted to work", 61.0% of the total national sample perceived "maintaining good relationships" as more important than "work", with only 15.0% seeing the reverse as more important. A closer look further revealed that 64.9% of the Bangkok Thai and 55.2% of the rural Thai perceived maintenance of good relationships as more important than work. It was interesting to find that government officials valued "work" the least (8.7%), while valuing "maintenance of good relationship" the highest of all groups (65.8%). And vice versa, it was the farmers who preferred "work" the highest. This confirms the accepted reality of the low performance - the Chao chaam yen chaam lethargic performance - of government employees who are more keen in paying lip services, taking bribes, seeking good relations with the powerful others, etc. A good relation wins all, not tasks. However, the bottom 23rd ranking of this achievement value (as opposed to the 3rd ranking of industrial society like the United States), and the overall 61.0% preference of "relations over work" as opposed to the 15.0% preference of "work over relations", are sufficient to endorse that, according to the Western sense of achievement need which is based on the person's internal drive of hard work, the Thai achievement need score is very low. And this is because it is seen in the cultural context where social relations is of utmost importance. With regard to this achievement value orientation, many writers both foreign and Thai, have for years talked about the Thai as having low achievement needs to work for economic and material gains, that they abhor hardwork and value only what is sanuk and fun. In fact, empirical data have shown quite the opposite picture that the Thai are very much material possession oriented. They do spend some money on merit-making according to various appropriate occasions throughout the year, but they spend much more on regular basis, for abundance of material possessions. Besides, they are constantly struggling for more. When the national samples were asked: "When one's life is reasonably comfortable or livable (Pho kin pho chai, meaning having enough to eat and spend), that should be enough, and there is no need to continue struggling for more", more than half (63.7%) of the national samples indicated it is not enough, one should continue to struggle for more. Examining the break down of various occupational groups from skilled workers, hawkers, farmers, up to government officials and businessmen, the degree of intention to struggle for more increases accordingly. This might indicate an increasing incentive or drive to struggle for more, when they see higher possibility of success as they move higher up the social ladder with higher education, status and money. It seems to be the spiral moving-up of higher education/status - higher possibility, higher drive, higher expectation, etc. This tendency was consistent in the rural and urban Thai, with the exception of the older people of 50 years and above, and the peasants of the North and the Northeast. The slackening drive of these group is understandable. The old age would probably not drive against their decreasing energy. Whereas for the North and the Northeast peasants who are among the poorest regional groups of the country, they have to exhaust their ingenuity against the harsh nature of the most arid region and find themselves survive on such food like small frogs, silkworms, crickets, or the Kudjii (beetles) found in the buffalo dung, and the like. Even so, if to say that these poorest Thai are generally lazy, abhor hardwork, and just want to have fun and Sanuk, how can one explain the fact that these poor peasants from the Northeast, despite their inability to speak any foreign language and with little education and skills, dare to go and work as un-skilled or semi-skilled laborers in totally alien countries like, the Middle-East, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Singapore and Brunei, etc. One can hardly see Sanuk or fun in their plight. Not only that they do work to survive and to accumulate more monetary and material gains, they are thinking of making money all the time, particularly more than the government officials who sit securely in the life-long employment of the government offices, enjoying their status, and through which in no hurry, they can make easy money along the way. In actuality, do the Thai really abhor hard work as many foreigners have described? The low achievement value ranking should not lead one to interpret so. They do work hard, particularly those independent occupations, like small business, shop owners, skilled workers, hawkers, down to farmers. One would realize this fact if he would just take a look at the lower unskilled labor force circles, like laborers at any construction site, peddlers and street vendors, hawkers, shopkeepers, and Mae khaa (market women) in the fresh markets, etc. where most of them have minimum education, and 90% of them are women of all ages. A typical picture of the laborers at a construction site will illustrate the hardworking drive of this lower less-educated class, where one can see some male construction workers working on the building, with a good number of children and women sometimes as old as 60s and over, shouldering buckets of water, cements, etc., doing all the details work of mixing and paving the finished mixture. . They are hardworking, and are "this-worldly" material oriented, to struggle for more and to gain more. Data further revealed that the rural peasants showed a higher preference of "material possession" to "fun or Sanuk". It revealed that "fun" or "Sanuk" is more a characteristic of the Bangkokians, the government officials, students, and the higher educated, definitely not the less advantaged classes. This is consistent with the value ranking of the rural people who ranked Ambitious-hardworking higher than Fun-loving and Pleasure, where the government officials, students, and the Bangkokians ranked the reverse. 9.2. Nature of Achievement Motivation of the Thai The general low achievement value of the Thai should not be misinterpreted as abhorrence of hardwork, but that in the context of Thai social value systems, hardworking alone is not sufficient. What is then the nature of the achievement motivation of the Thai? For other cultures, like the Americans whose culture is characterized by high individualism together with high freedom and equality, achievement means one perseveres aggressively towards one' goal and succeeds in a rags-to-riches, self-made man manner. Understandably, the American achievement value was ranked 2nd and 3rd by the national samples and was positively correlated with competence and assertive values. On the contrary, in the Thai context, S. Komin found out that task achievement value was ranked the bottom 23rd, and was negatively associated with all the important social relationship values. For the Thai, it is Hardworking through Competence (r=.16) and Education (r=.15) to attain Social recognition (r=.16) for Success in life (r=.15). However, in the process, it seems to disrupt or seen as negatively related to important social relationship values like Caring-considerate (r=-.20), Kind-helpful (r=-.20), etc., and also negatively related to the time-honored Asian value of being Obedient-respectful (r=-.20). This means that while the Americans having task itself and professionalism as achievement goals with self assertive efforts as means, the Thai give prestige and social recognition as goals for success in life, with work and relations as necessary means. With social recognition as an important underlying motive for success, achievement in Thai society is more social in nature. Also it is very rare that work alone would lead one to the Thai sense of achievement. Instead, it has always been the good relationships, with or without work, that guarantees this Thai sense of achievement, exemplified in the majority of government position holders. In conclusion, for the Thai, task achievement value is usually inhibited by social relationship values. While submissiveness and good relations, with or without work, has always paid-off, task per se or worst still, task which seen as threat or without submissive relations to superior, does not lead to success in life. In the Thai cultural context, achievement in the Western sense indeed would not fit. Primary Source : Fr. Peter S. Niphon SDB, Hat Yai Full unedited text (includes footnotes and references) Secondary Source : S. KOMIN, Psychology of the Thai People: Values and Behavioral Patterns. Bangkok, Research Center, National Institute of Development Administration. Edited July 18, 2007 by WaiWai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 There is a flip side to your view of PC. It asks people to take other's thoughts and feelings into account, and not just focus on their own narrow view of the world. Having respect for things that others value is not asking you to take on those values, merely to acknowledge that others find them to be important.The problem with your broad generalization above is that it is not that kind that is commonly found here. TV'ers don't go around saying "Thai men like som tam, and Thai women like tom yum". Instead we are making statements like "Thai men are all wasters who should be locked up or sent to the army" and "Thai women are gold diggers who are after the farang's money. There is a huge difference between those examples, and the fact that some don't understand that is a big part of the problem, imo. I see what you are saying, but you can’t fix the fact that generalizations are unavoidable. What I was saying was generalizations need to be identified when you use them, and people’s values and equality need to be respected (level ground approach). Otherwise we are either left adrift in a self-censored world of make-believe, or caught up in a back alley brawl where everyone ends up looking low class (a pig fight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacup Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) Who says the generalization is the thing of the past and that we don’t or shouldn’t use it anymore? That is an inaccurate and absurd statement! Those people should go back to school more and I mean at the higher learning level. I personally think that generalization isn't always "bad", it depends on what basis the generalization is made. If all generalizations are bad, we wouldn’t have many sociologists or statisticians with phd or even w/ a Nobel prize all over the world. The problem here on this board is with the “common generalizations” that they are not usually and always based on fact and only based on a very small limited sample and only from their own personal past expericences! and may not be accurate. The problem I see is that there are just a lot of negative people here who tend to always point out the bad -in things, in everything, and in other people. Often I get the silent massage by reading between the lines of many BM posts here that "My generalization is good His is bad ". This message goes by so many times a day and no one gets it? I think it’s typical human nature to react on thing you don’t like and I admit that I do it sometimes, otherwise I’m usually good at not judging. If generalizations are all bad, why don’t people react violently when a good generalization is made unlike a bad one? Like I wouldn’t mind being tarred with honey though! Edited July 18, 2007 by teacup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjock Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Generalizations and stereotyping went out of style a long time ago, all. I found this excerpted sentence above in the OP to be very interesting since it appears to be given as a statement of fact which IMO would be incorrect since both of the above processes are still very much alive and in use in our everyday life and very necessary especially in areas of analysis, problem solving, research, medicine and the list could go on an on. I would agree with his statement if it had been given as a statement regarding cultural or racial generalizations and stereotypes. I do understand what the OP is getting at and I would agree in the sense that some of the negative generalizations we see here on TV which are not backed up by rational and evidentiary support can be troubling to read in this era of political correctness. I view some of the recent forum topics such as 'Selfish Thais' and 'Thai male wasters' merely as unsubstantiated generalizations made in an attempt to generate some controversy. I think by qualifying a generalization by something like 'I think' or 'in my opinion, it would at least makes the statement more palatable since it at least it is allowing for the fact that the writer may not be correct. The interesting thing is that everytime I see some negative generalization about Thais in a TV forum, I could substitute the word American or European for Thai and most of the statements would still be as equally true or untrue ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustoff Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 A very dear friend of mine in Hawaii has the following as her signature line: "Your interpretation of what you see and hear, is just that, your interpretation." What a dizzying experience sometimes, coping with the multitude of personal interpretations of what we see, hear, experience in our Thailand adventure! I have been not only coming to Thailand since 1966 and now live here full time, I have spent the last 50 years traveling throughout the world and have found that generalizations are used because, for the majority of human beings trying to understand our differences as a species, they work. And to deny the reality that generalizations are in practice in every country/culture is simple ignorance. While I have always made every effort to avoid applying generalizations to individuals, I know that I must expect them whenever I flash an American passport or am identified as a 'farang' wherever I go. Just as any of us experience wherever we go in this world no matter where we are from. And people are different! Afghans are different from Nepalese, the Nepalese are different from Iranians, Iranians are different from whoever, and to think otherwise can not only be foolish but dangerous. Customs differ as in 'giving the finger' to Thais to sticking your thumb up as in hitchhiking or displaying your feet toward a Mosque in Iraq to thinking that everyone who smiles at you is your friend.. If nothing else, the American Consular advisories concerning travel in other nations are in place because, duh, generalizations work. Thai/farang, Thai/farang, whew.. Exhausting to read sometimes on these forums and I think that the only time generalizations are destructive is when they are applied in a negative sense. Not that I am immune; when I came here to live well over six years ago, I was not in any way looking for a relationship or encounter with a woman (we are all different and have different agendas and I realize that) and when I met a waitress on Phuket and felt myself falling in love, I actually told her that I was also poor because of negative generalizations that I had heard over the years about Thai women. She didn't care. Making some 4000 Baht a month, she said, "I can take care of you." We are locked together to this very day and I could not be happier but it took some explaining on my part when she found out that I am financially secure. Trust is a very sensitive issue with 'real people'.. There are as many differences between we people as there are humans on the planet and the imaginary borders and cultures/religions we have formed further separate us but we, individually, IMHO, are the same! I have met people in vastly different cultures in the Himalayas to Herat to Crete to Istanbul to Chaiyaphum to Bombay whom I will hold, as long as I am alive, to be some of the finest people I have ever met and have no question that they feel the same about me. For me, generalizations are worth considering if I wish to educate myself and be respectful of other's cultures and ways, but if I ever use them to negatively judge any other human being, I am little more than a fool cheating myself out of the amazing experience of grokking my own kind... But don't get started on the average quality of Thai home construction. Some generalizations work.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
.thumb.png.76be522b3b43e7458166b9dac9e422ed.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now