Marriage Registration

[keithpage]

Hello Everyone.

This is my first post and i couldnt really find another suitable place to post this so here it is.

Anyway, I am from the UK and have been in Thailand now for 2 years living and working. This year in November i will be getting married to my Thai girlfriend. Everything is going ahead smoothly but one question still remains. This question is....

Is it possible / Do we have to register the marriage in Thailand and / or England?

If youre confused....

Is it possible to register the marriage in Thailand and England or can it only be registered in one country?

Do we have to register the marriage in both Thailand and England?

If anyone can help that would be great. I have already asked a few people and everyone gives me a different answer.

Please help.

Thanks.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Hi,

Isn't it only up to you? If you want to make it easy to divorce and don't mind your wife could go to UK easily then better only register in Thailand I think.

But what I don't know is if it changes something when a Thai woman married to a foreigner (registered in Thailand) wants to buy land? As I heard about people who only registered their marriage abroad not to have any problem when buying land in Thailand?

Bye.

[markr]

Keith,

Marrying in thailand is the same as marrying in england, it is recognised as legal in both countries

Do it wherever you choose, I just did in Thailand and It could'nt be easier.

Your new wife will not lose any rights in thailand, i.e buying land etc, as the poster above mentioned.

Mark

[Maestro]

Keith, you register the marriage in the country where you marry, in your case, marrying in Thailand, you register it at the Amphur office.

Then, with a copy of the Thai marriage certificate, you report your marriage to the British embassy for their records.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...what I don't know is if it changes something when a Thai woman married to a foreigner (registered in Thailand) wants to buy land...

Her rights as a Thai national, including the right to buy land in Thailand, remain unchanged.

--

Maestro

[thedi]

If I understand the question right, the OP wants to know if he could register his marriage in Thailand and not in UK - or vice versa.

The answer is: you could, but you should not.

If you register your marriage only in Thailand, but not UK, you would not gain anything, because the marriage (even if unknown to UK authorities) is still valid in UK. If you would later decide to ignore the marriage and marry an other woman wherever, you would be guilty of bigamy. I don't know the UK laws about bigamy, but I now that this is not taken lightly in Switzerland.

Naturally the chances are, that it will never come out. But on the other hand, your Thai wife would always have a handle against you - if your marriage fails.

I knew of a case in Switzerland, where a guy married a Swiss woman. After several years, a Thai woman showed up in the Swiss embassy in BKK and requested a visa for Switzerland, showing a Thai marriage certificate with that guy. This got him into big problems. He didn't deny that he knew that Thai woman long time ago, years before his marriage in Switzerland, but he claimed that he did not marry her. He may have been tricked in signing something which he didn't understand, as it was written in Thai only.

The case went on for a long time. Lawyers earned a lot of money from it. I lost track of this case. But he got a lot of troubles from that smart trick...

Some years ago it was common practice to marry in UK (or any farangland) and register it there but not to register the marriage in Thailand. This was then, because a Thai woman married to a farang lost some rights, namely buying land. This discriminating laws do not exist any more. There is no reason to not to register your marriage in Thailand. In the contrary: you may gain by registring your marriage, because the immigration laws for 'married to a Thai' are a bit more favorable.

Regards

Thedi

[lungbing]

First, let's sort out a little bit of terminology.

By marriage I assume you mean recording the marriage at your wife's local amphur. If you only have the ceremonies with the monks then that is not a legal marriage, it's more of a blessing, although the local people will think more of that than the bit of paper from the amphur.

If you have the certificates from the amphur then you legally married and that marriage is also recognised as being valid in the UK.

Get the wedding certificate officially translated into English. Let your pension provider know you are married and the taxman. Because I married before I started to draw my pension my wife will get a widow's pension when I (eventually) pop my clogs. There is no benefit at present from the taxman knowing but you never know, they might re-introduce the married man's allowance! You may also need translations for opening UK bank accounts or changing an account to joint names, or applying for a visa from an embassy.

It is not necessary to inform the British Embassy, although you can record (not register) your marriage there. They will take one of the certificates and send it to London. Then in 100 years time your descendants will be able to trace your marriage from London and think what a lucky old ancestor you were. That's the only benefit.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Hi,

Isn't it only up to you? If you want to make it easy to divorce and don't mind your wife could go to UK easily then better only register in Thailand I think.

But what I don't know is if it changes something when a Thai woman married to a foreigner (registered in Thailand) wants to buy land? As I heard about people who only registered their marriage abroad not to have any problem when buying land in Thailand?

Bye.

But am I wrong to think that it will be more difficult to divorce if you also register in any farangland?

As an example in France you can't divorce without a lawyer, but I don't know about UK.

I know that I am pessimistic, sorry, or maybe is it just realistic... ?

And about buying land, people I heard about were married more than 10 years ago, so that's why they didn't register in Thailand.

[MengWan]

But am I wrong to think that it will be more difficult to divorce if you also register in any farangland?

As an example in France you can't divorce without a lawyer, but I don't know about UK.

I know that I am pessimistic, sorry, or maybe is it just realistic... ?

And about buying land, people I heard about were married more than 10 years ago, so that's why they didn't register in Thailand.

There's a BIG difference indeed !

In France, there is no need to change any identity paper when a woman marries because she does NOT change her name !

In Thailand, a woman is required to carry the name of her husband !

So, for me, if we register our marriage here, she would have to change all IDs (passport and so on) and I imagine the trouble with the land property deeds ...

As a result, my wife (27 years of marriage) has a thaï ID card with MISS ... (funny, no ?)

[Humphrey Bear]

Keith, you register the marriage in the country where you marry, in your case, marrying in Thailand, you register it at the Amphur office.

Then, with a copy of the Thai marriage certificate, you report your marriage to the British embassy for their records.

--

Maestro

Quite correct. If you are going to UK anyway, then you can register it over there (after getting the full documentation translated officially) at your local registry office. I did that with my Thai wife - officially married in Thailand, with certificate, marriage later registered in UK.

Different with my previous (Polish) wife. Married in Libya, not recognised by UK, but recognised in Poland. Therefore got registered in Warsaw, then the Warsaw registration re-registered in UK.

We are here talking about the Amphur marriage, with paper - not the traditional nine monks thingy, which is not recognised as an official marriage in UK. So make sure you are properly registered in LOS.

[Humphrey Bear]

In Thailand, a woman is required to carry the name of her husband !

So, for me, if we register our marriage here, she would have to change all IDs (passport and so on) and I imagine the trouble with the land property deeds ...

As a result, my wife (27 years of marriage) has a thaï ID card with MISS ... (funny, no ?)

My wife and I were married (Amphur) several years ago.

Registration and so on done - certificates issued (one each)

My wife keeps her own name - in passport and on title deeds to land.

Her ID has changed from the provinces to our address in Pattaya. But still her family name.

Whether this is legally correct or not, I know not. But it is the way things are.

[sierra01]

Lungbing has it right. I would add that its a good idea to get the Thai certificate translated into English and signed and stamped by the MOF on Chaengwattana road in Nonthaburi. We only had it done at one of the shops beside the MOF, which doesn't seem to be good enough for her to get a Schengen visa, we now have to get the translation signed and stamped by the Thai Embassy in London.

[sbk]

But am I wrong to think that it will be more difficult to divorce if you also register in any farangland?

As an example in France you can't divorce without a lawyer, but I don't know about UK.

I know that I am pessimistic, sorry, or maybe is it just realistic... ?

And about buying land, people I heard about were married more than 10 years ago, so that's why they didn't register in Thailand.

There's a BIG difference indeed !

In France, there is no need to change any identity paper when a woman marries because she does NOT change her name !

In Thailand, a woman is required to carry the name of her husband !

So, for me, if we register our marriage here, she would have to change all IDs (passport and so on) and I imagine the trouble with the land property deeds ...

As a result, my wife (27 years of marriage) has a thaï ID card with MISS ... (funny, no ?)

MengWan, that law changed a few years ago and a Thai woman is no longer required to use her husbands name.

[lopburi3]

1. There is no longer a requirement for a Thai woman to change her name to that of her husband. But it is the normal procedure.

2. Her ID card should show her as married. We have a current poster in a bit of a bind; most likely because this 15 minute process was not taken care of.

3. There is no problem with land ownership as if obtained prior to marriage it is not joint property and if she wants to buy after marriage all that is required is a paper signed by foreigner that he understands he has no claim of ownership (she confirms money used belongs to her alone).

[MengWan]

1. There is no longer a requirement for a Thai woman to change her name to that of her husband. But it is the normal procedure.

2. Her ID card should show her as married. We have a current poster in a bit of a bind; most likely because this 15 minute process was not taken care of.

3. There is no problem with land ownership as if obtained prior to marriage it is not joint property and if she wants to buy after marriage all that is required is a paper signed by foreigner that he understands he has no claim of ownership (she confirms money used belongs to her alone).

Now, that is interesting !

I am no legalist (especially english-style laws) but :

What abnormal procedure can lead to a marriage registration, the wife keeping her name ?

Why in hel_l should she be IDed as married ? What's the problem here, does a woman belongs to her husband here ? (In such a case, I would be so glad to tell her, aïe aïe aïe)

We are married "community style" so everything is 50/50 (post-marriage) so how can she confirm "money used belongs to her alone" (sic) without lying ?

I do understand that I have no right of ownership on the land(s), but why oblige the "foreigner" to sign anything ?

I am obviously not happy with this kind of law but have no gunboat and no will to use one to have it changed.

If a "foreigner" does not sign anything, what happens ? Is he being put to jail or is the property confiscated by the state ?

How can you withdraw rights that he doest not have, I do not understand this kind of logic !

My wife and I have only thaï heirs (relatives, no children) but I expect to have a right of usage (usufruit) till I die if I die the last, is it wrong ?

NB: One bad thing about Thaïland, I begin to get tired of being discriminated upon because of this or that !

Edited July 29, 2007 by MengWan