Landlord & Tenant General Obligations

[SailingHome]

Lease expired 3 years ago. Now they want more per month. I am already paying more than other rooms rent for and those are remodeled. I don't think the owner's son cares much about mom (I mean that protectively of her.) She is too old to manage things. Rooms here sire empty for YEARS. She can't pay the taxes and HOA and things without me and we have a mutual understanding. I offered to buy it above market if she carries. She sees how smart that is. Income, no taxes, not HOA, if I leave early she keeps the money and the room - simple. Son? NOPE! Add another 110k or move out. OK.

I have no issue paying an extra 500 a month for the convenience of not needing to move with my Parkinson's disease and a surgery coming up and living alone. No worries in any way except one. I will follow the laws and have a lawful contract or I am not leaving and I am not paying more. There is no enforceable contract. The old contract has no precisions for termination. I've lived here 3 years... My lawyer wants have a field day... sigh. Chill dude.

Anyone know the REAL laws of this rental situation of expired contract that does not lawfully follow 2018 L&T laws?

I find it quite humorous other than how the mother is being used.

[worgeordie]

1 hour ago, SailingHome said:

2018 L&T laws?

The law that really only applies if landlord has 5 properties or more , does your landlord

have more than 5 properties ? that law ?

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

[loong]

I can make no sense of this topic at all!

[Andyfez]

You said room stay empty for years. Why not just move to another room? Moving furniture for one room surely is not that difficult?

 

[TheFishman1]

Will either pay the 500 more per month or find a new place it’s not hard you mentioned it a lot of vacancies. They are moving into one of them. It’s very easy to call a few people that will help you move. It’s very inexpensive here T. TIT.

[SailingHome]

25 minutes ago, Andyfez said:

You said room stay empty for years. Why not just move to another room? Moving furniture for one room surely is not that difficult?

 

 

5 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said:

Will either pay the 500 more per month or find a new place it’s not hard you mentioned it a lot of vacancies. They are moving into one of them. It’s very easy to call a few people that will help you move. It’s very inexpensive here T. TIT.

Normally I too agree with you both.  What I didn't point out is that with Parkinson's the home becomes a tool to help manage your care. It takes a lot of time and expense to do that. The owner gave me permission to install things, for example, with the agreement I get to take them with me and leave the room as it was when I moved in. To them the water damage the old and broken AC unit caused to furniture is my fault. Normal war and tear? My fault, not normal wear and tear. The financial and time cost to move is very high plus I am heading to New York for a an invasive surgery next week and am facinga 6 week recovery - bad timing. 

I could seriously care less about 500 baht, guys, lets be real. I can't even get a new contract so it is month to month and I never know when I will lose my home with only 5 days notice becasue they are bound by no laws. 

Let us not forget... no matter where I move TiT as someone so eloqently pointed out. Do you really think the next landlord will be any better whatsoever? Better the devil you know.

[Thingamabob]

1 hour ago, loong said:

I can make no sense of this topic at all!

Me also. 

[newnative]

     I'm not sure why you have started this second thread when you already have another thread running on this very same topic.  Perhaps you did not like the answers you got on the other thread and are hoping for an answer more to your liking here.  I doubt that will be the case.

    If I am recalling correctly, most of the advice given to you was:

   1.  Accept the new contract and stay where you are.  Advantages: You already have modifications to the condo for your illness.  The devil you know argument.  No hassles of moving.  Just a small rent increase after 3 years of living there.  And, you said the 500 baht increase was no big deal--although you mentioned it repeatedly on the other thread and now here.  Disadvantages:  Same son of landlord you don't like.  Uncertainities regarding your rental contract--but you could make a condition of staying a new contract with terms better to your liking.  UNit not as nice as others for rent or sale in the building.

2.  Move to another rental unit in the building since you say there are others for rent that are better than where you now are.  Advantages:  Better unit.  New, hopefully better landlord.  Opportunity to have a better rental contract that protects you better.  Disadvantages:  Hassle and expense of moving and installing your equipment for your illness in the new condo.  But, same building so not as much of a hassle or an expense as it could be moving somewhere else. 

3.  Buy the unit you mentioned that is for sale in the building, which you say is also much nicer than your current unit.  Advantages:  Owning would eliminate your problems with being a tenant--both with your current landlord and with future landlords--which from your above post, you feel will also be hard to deal with.  Also frees you from your large resentment in not being covered by the 2018 rental law--also mentioned numerous times in the threads.  No longer a victim of rental discrimination.  You can get your equipment for your illness installed once and for all and not have to worry about moving it from rental condo to rental condo.  Owning puts you in charge, not the landlord, of your living space and what you can do with it--that woud be a big advantage, for me.

      Frankly, I'm not sure what all the shouting's about.  It doesn't seem like a very big issue to me and you have several good choices to choose from, none of them difficult to accomplish, even wth your illness.  I might point out that if you are well enough to travel to NY you can probably accomplish a move to another condo in the building, should you choose to buy or rent a different unit than your present one.

     In your shoes, I would choose option 3, if you can afford to buy.  But, I have the owner mentality.  Others prefer to rent.  I like being my own boss and not answering to a landlord, and being subject to their whims, rules, bad furniture, and so on.  For me, life is too short to be a renter.   Only you can decide which option is best for you--but you do have options and it's really a matter now of you deciding to decide.  Good luck with your decision and your operation.

[SailingHome]

<voice typing on>

Actually... I have learned a lot about Thai culture and law in all of this. Mainly that when someone is doing something against societal norms or illegal, you just stand firm. Have them take you to conciliation, arbitration, or court. Partied of a contract that are "unfair" especially if they do not communicate are highly looked down on. Landlords that do not register leases? WOW... they are seriously damaged. I understand now, by people think the bars are entirely skewed quite landlords. The fact is Thailand civil and Commercial Code it's extremely fair, exact Thailand is a culture demands fairness in all things ( OK try not to laugh we're foreigners... But when it comes to contract law look for yourself!)

 I completely understand, why lawyers say we can't help you. I can't tell you how many lawyers told me to the effect, “ discuss it with your landlord. Or pay hundreds of thousands of THB to go to court and have them tell you the same thing unless it's something extreme in which case why haven't you just filed with OCSB? Why are you westerners always telling us our culture is wrong? We value discussion and working things out not having a government force everything on us. If you want for 45,000 we'll do a case review for you and point out discuss it with your landlord. ”

 

I've got one of those landlords that knows that if he doesn't talk to me it makes everything impossible. Reality is it's quite simple. Since when are you ever punished for following the law? You tell the landlord that won't file TM 30? You know there's probably a reason for that! Why would somebody not want to file a 5 minute process online? Think about it if you weren't paying taxes, and or you have unscrupulous rental practices, do you really want the government looking into it? No way! My landlord evaded not just pretended not to file, literally would make mistakes like slightly altering the address from one form to the next; or using a website that uses OCR to put the documents into the computer for immigration, and OCR having make sure the format is correct add 6 zeros to my passport number. I have to say immigration officials and I had quite a bit of fun for the entire month watching him. They were kind enough to explain to me when I asked why on earth would he do this...

 

Ask him charging me 250% above market rate when I first moved in? People like to say, "ohh well you sign the contract!" Yeah sorry guys, the law doesn't really work that way. That he wouldn't talk about it and then tried to shove a rent increase on me when I have a section 570 lease and I have to sign off on the rent increase - ohh wow did he get upset when I did a market rate report showed him, it's actually only 2700 right now ( I'm in a family neighborhood in Chatuchak with low turnover inconvenient to transportation,) and it was 1800 when I moved in. In the absence of any other proof what could he do ? Evict  me for only paying 2700? He never filed the lease for one thing so the courts,  "what gives an eviction proceedings?" But the real thing is he won't even go to mediation, and remember that laws can't be mediated, because he's not going to open his rental practices.

 

Well my landlord certainly presents a unique case where there might be some delusions of grandeur based on words that he said of having his own nation protected by the laws of Thailand, from what I understand of other Thai people this is what they do. They don't create conflict they simply stand firm. They don't go running to arbitration they tell the landlord without telling him you take me to arbitration and while I'm there I'll plan out you're being unfair and they'll be mad at you.

 

You might think this concept ohh the people self enforcing it's strange that we have it in the United states.“ teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves,” is a quote a few of you here will certainly recognize. Imagine a nation that lives by that standard something close to it anyway.

[SailingHome]

On 3/5/2024 at 10:15 PM, worgeordie said:

The law that really only applies if landlord has 5 properties or more , does your landlord

have more than 5 properties ? that law ?

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

Voice typing mode...

 

it's true that it only applies to those that are doing residential contracts as a business (5+ properties) in terms of their being oversight. We have to keep in mind that the presence of one law upon a group, can be applied to other groups. This is called the spirit of the law. Courts tend to hold up that which is fair, and pointing out that your landlord is being unfair and other things, most especially if they have shifted the balance of gain toward themselves (Undue Gain) we'll find themselves facing actual laws they use words similar to undue gain. I'm agreeing with you but I want to point out, using the argument as a landlord that it doesn't apply to me is not going to get very far with a lawmaker thus it won't get very far with a law enforcer. You certainly can't stand there and say in the absence of a law I can do anything I want. The law is based on the foundation of legality which is what is the common practice. In a society that highly values fairness, at least within its legalities, it will be very seldom if there isn't somewhere a standard of what is followed. So you are correct residential contract as a business, is enforced much more quickly than a residential contract by landlord with a single property. So why haven't you just taken it to OCPB once you've shown that you have done enough and can do no more on your own?

 

These thoughts might seem radical, but I assure you quite a few type people have told me this is the way it's meant to be. And then checking it with GPT 4.0 models I found it to be quite true. While AI models are terrible adding interpreting laws themselves because they have an inability to be exact about language, doesn't mean that they don't recognize how culture works. And most certainly when the laws are uploaded to a conversation can you describe your situation they're very quick to point out where there's a conflict noting not particular cases but case law in general since they scrub themselves of law personal data the fact that it's in a GPT means that it did exist therefore your ability to find it won't be very difficult if you need to use it. You won't need to use it. Either a landlord is truly from Thailand and embraces Thai society, or they know they're doing something wrong they don't want to be discovered. Don't blackmail them with that of course! That's for us as foreigners to whine with this culture is it not fair? Sorry I can't join that campaign