Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's official from the UN, israeli IS committing genocide in Gaza. It's going to be hard for the colluder in chief, Biden, to continue to support israel now, though I expect he will. IMO he's in it all the way, complicit in war crimes, and the enabler of it, but IMO he will eventually be dragged, protesting, to forcing israel to end it's atrocity. I'm guessing when he finally recognises he is going to lose the election over it.

 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976

Rights expert finds ‘reasonable grounds’ genocide is being committed in Gaza

Their rights expert is Francesca Albanese, who has history of antisemitic remarks and appeared to justify Hamas's Oct. 7 massacre, yea right.

[Bkk Brian]

12 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

Cherry picked edits there. He also said to Israel. 

 

“Be strong, be smart and let's get this over with and when its over your going to be back to having a great life"

 

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1772735829074403439

 

[ozimoron]

 

[ozimoron]

Netanyahu has been spoiling for a fight with the US. He may not survive this one

 

It also distracts from his stated policy of imploring Qatar to funnel more funds to Gaza to strengthen Hamas, all in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority and render any political negotiations impossible.

 

But this framing allows Netanyahu to placate his rightwing extremist coalition and partners, who have long opposed any form of Palestinian statehood.

 

The second reason is more current and practical: the confrontation is about setting up Biden as the scapegoat for Netanyahu’s failure to achieve “total victory” or “the eradication of Hamas”, two fortune cookie-type slogans that he spews regularly.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/26/benjamin-netanyahu-joe-biden-un-security-council-resolution-ceasefire-gaza

Edited March 27 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Their rights expert is Francesca Albanese, who has history of antisemitic remarks and appeared to justify Hamas's Oct. 7 massacre, yea right.

 

Why not tell us where you think she justified the massacre? As is stands this is appears to be an unsubstantiated throw away designed to shoot the messenger.

 

Edited March 27 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Why not tell us where you think she justified the massacre? As is stands this is appears to be an unsubstantiated throw away designed to shoot the messenger.

 

Why not read the link yourself.

 

Francesca Albanese, who has history of antisemitic remarks and appeared to justify Hamas’s Oct. 7 massacre, claims

https://www.timesofisrael.com/contentious-un-rapporteur-accuses-israel-of-several-acts-of-genocide-in-gaza/

[WDSmart]

12 hours ago, transam said:

You would...........🙄

 

I suppose you wouldn't want Hitlers Nazi's killed either, or ISIS cut-throats, eh.....?

Yes. I would not want any member of a group killed because the group committed atrocities unless that individual was tried and convicted. Just because you belong to a group like the above, or now of Hamas or the IDF, doesn't mean you deserve to be killed.

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why not read the link yourself.

 

Francesca Albanese, who has history of antisemitic remarks and appeared to justify Hamas’s Oct. 7 massacre, claims

https://www.timesofisrael.com/contentious-un-rapporteur-accuses-israel-of-several-acts-of-genocide-in-gaza/

 

I saw nothi9ng which even remotely suggested that she justified the Hamas attack. That's why I invited you to make an argument to that effect but it appears that you have chosen to just make an incendiary claim and leave it at that.

 

Edited March 27 by ozimoron

[WDSmart]

12 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

12 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I honestly had no idea the UN was this bias before Oct 7th. Its certainly opened my eyes to their antisemitism

Me too, this is the most astonishing matter to come out of this war.

What I have learned after Oct 7 and has certainly opened my eyes is the astounding and disappointing degree of misplaced and deflective self-pity that pro-Israelis on this topic, and presumably, Israelis also, have.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

I saw nothi9ng which even remotely suggested that she justified the Hamas attack. That's why I invited you to make an argument to that effect but it appears that you have chose to make the claim and just leave it at that.

I don't care what you invite me to do. I have told you before I do not debate with someone who always edits posts after I have already replied.

 

 

Germany & France Condemn UN’s Francesca Albanese for ‘Disgraceful’ Antisemitism

 

https://unwatch.org/germany-france-condemn-uns-francesca-albanese-for-disgraceful-antisemitism/

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I don't care what you invite me to do. I have told you before I do not debate with someone who always edits posts after I have already replied.

 

 

Germany & France Condemn UN’s Francesca Albanese for ‘Disgraceful’ Antisemitism

 

https://unwatch.org/germany-france-condemn-uns-francesca-albanese-for-disgraceful-antisemitism/

 

Editing my post to clarify my thoughts is a just an excuse to avoid rising to the challenge. UN watch is a rabidly anti UN org with no credibility. Frankly, I'm stunned that it's permitted on this forum.

 

What she said was :

 

You said the victims were “not killed because of their Judaism,” but rather “in reaction to Israel’s oppression.”

 

I believe that's right on point and absolutely true.

 

Furthermore the article does not state who "France" and "Germany" are, an indication of obfuscation. Were those people official spokespersons for their respective countries? We can't know but I suggest they were not.

 

Finally, the links to twitter in the article are in a foreign language.

 

Edited March 27 by ozimoron

[WDSmart]

10 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   No, the time to stop will be when all the hostages have been released and all those responsible bought to justice .

   The people holding the hostages need to be bought to justice , either killed or jailed . 

All those who entered Israel on Oct 7 th need to be held accountable for their actions and crimes and face justice .

  

 

I agree with all of the above, but I would add that all those who invaded Gaza or were responsible for the indiscriminate bombing and interference with food distribution should be held accountable for their actions and crimes and face justice.

[WDSmart]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Israel should settle with Hamas who wants to kill all Jews? 

Israel and Palestine should come to a two-state agreement.

[WDSmart]

10 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   So that one sentence was the only Messianic Biblical prophecies , Torah and advice from Rabbis that Netanyahu has said about this war , that kind of contradicts your claim that he bases his policies on them 

I agree that Netanyahu and most of his government are right-wing, nationalistic, religious fanatics who are moving forward to claim ALL of the "Promised Land" they think they were given by some delusional "god." 

[Bkk Brian]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Editing my post to clarify my thoughts is a just an excuse to avoid rising to the challenge. Frankly, I'm stunned that it's permitted on this forum.

 

What she said was :

 

You said the victims were “not killed because of their Judaism,” but rather “in reaction to Israel’s oppression.”

 

I believe that's right on point and absolutely true.

 

Furthermore the article does not state who "France" and "Germany" are, an indication of obfuscation. Were those people official spokespersons for their respective countries? We can't know but I suggest they were not.

 

Finally, the links to twitter in the article are in a foreign language.

 

UN watch is a rabidly anti UN org with no credibility.

 

Kofi Annan disagrees with you 

 

https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1520656596673646592

 

The US blasts UN Special Rapporteur for the Palestinians Francesca Albanese after she denied French President Emmanuel Macron’s claim that Hamas’s October 7 terror onslaught was the most significant antisemitic attack of the century 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-blasts-un-palestinian-rights-official-who-rejected-antisemitic-undertones-of-oct-7-attack/

 

[ozimoron]

30 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

UN watch is a rabidly anti UN org with no credibility.

 

Kofi Annan disagrees with you 

The US blasts UN Special Rapporteur for the Palestinians Francesca Albanese after she denied French President Emmanuel Macron’s claim that Hamas’s October 7 terror onslaught was the most significant antisemitic attack of the century 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-blasts-un-palestinian-rights-official-who-rejected-antisemitic-undertones-of-oct-7-attack/

 

 

From your link.

 

Facing mounting criticism, Albanese clarified that she was not justifying Hamas’s “crimes, which I have strongly condemned several times.

 

“I reject all racism, including antisemitism — a global threat. But explaining [Hamas’s] crimes as antisemitism obscures their true cause,” she said.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

From your link.

 

Facing mounting criticism, Albanese clarified that she was not justifying Hamas’s “crimes, which I have strongly condemned several times.

 

“I reject all racism, including antisemitism — a global threat. But explaining [Hamas’s] crimes as antisemitism obscures their true cause,” she said.

Albanese clarified.............lol

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Albanese clarified.............lol

 

Clarified that her words should be taken literally.

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

What I have learned after Oct 7 and has certainly opened my eyes is the astounding and disappointing degree of misplaced and deflective self-pity that pro-Israelis on this topic, and presumably, Israelis also, have.

 

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

What I have learned after Oct 7 and has certainly opened my eyes is the astounding and disappointing degree of misplaced and deflective self-pity that pro-Israelis on this topic, and presumably, Israelis also, have.

You appear to have not learned anything, you want a ceasefire so the terrorists can regroup and start more 7/10s and you advocate an unworkable two state solution that neither side wants.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Clarified that her words should be taken literally.

She's a raging antisemitic, no surprise your defending her. 

 

This from the "U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations Human Rights Council"

 

https://twitter.com/USAmbHRC/status/1757103240817078396

 

[WDSmart]

7 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

 

You appear to have not learned anything, you want a ceasefire so the terrorists can regroup and start more 7/10s and you advocate an unworkable two state solution that neither side wants.

No, I do not want more Oct 7s, and I do not want more Oct 8 and onwards bombings and invasions.
I advocate a two-state solution, which, I agree, neither side wants. That's what NEGOTIATIONS are all about. Any negotiation is better than terrorist and military actions. 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

She's a raging antisemitic, no surprise your defending her. 

 

This from the "U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations Human Rights Council"

 

I'm not defending her, I'm saying that her claim that Hamas attacked Israel as a response to decades of Israeli oppression are on point and nothing to do with religion. This war has nothing to do with religion. It is a territorial dispute.

 

Netanyahu was described in the Guardian article I quoted as deliberately dividing Palestinians through his support of Hamas and that he and his officials are extremists who never wanted a Palestinian state and cynically operated to prevent one.

 

Edited March 27 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

I'm not defending her, I'm saying that her claim that Hamas attacked Israel as a response to decades of Israeli oppression are on point and nothing to do with religion. This war has nothing to do with religion. It is a territorial dispute.

 

Netanyahu was described in the Guardian article I quoted as deliberately dividing Palestinians through his support of Hamas and that he and his officials are extremists who never wanted a Palestinian state and cynically operated to prevent one.

 

I'm not defending her

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Clarified that her words should be taken literally.

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

I'm not defending her

 

 

Then you should also suggest the the Times of Israel was defending her as well. You have made a non sequitur.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Then you should also suggest the the Times of Israel was defending her as well. You have made a non sequitur.

You said your not defending her, your post says otherwise.

16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Clarified that her words should be taken literally.

 

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I'm not defending her, I'm saying that her claim that Hamas attacked Israel as a response to decades of Israeli oppression are on point and nothing to do with religion. This war has nothing to do with religion. It is a territorial dispute.

 

Netanyahu was described in the Guardian article I quoted as deliberately dividing Palestinians through his support of Hamas and that he and his officials are extremists who never wanted a Palestinian state and cynically operated to prevent one.

 

I agree with most of what you said above, but this dispute does have a lot to do with religion. The extreme right-wing, nationalistic Jews in Israel think ALL the land of Israel and Palestine belong to them because it was the "Promised Land" given to them by their "God." 

[ozimoron]

Just now, WDSmart said:

I agree with most of what you said above, but this dispute does have a lot to do with religion. The extreme right-wing, nationalistic Jews in Israel think ALL the land of Israel and Palestine belong to them because it was the "Promised Land" given to them by their "God." 

 

They are using their religion as an excuse for a land grab. All wars are about resources and land.

Edited March 27 by ozimoron

[Wobblybob]

12 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

No, I do not want more Oct 7s, and I do not want more Oct 8 and onwards bombings and invasions.
I advocate a two-state solution, which, I agree, neither side wants. That's what NEGOTIATIONS are all about. Any negotiation is better than terrorist and military actions. 

There wouldn't have been an Oct 8th without the infamous beastial attack on Oct 7th and without removing Hamas now you are facilitating more of these attacks which should be obvious to every man and his dog.

Two more Israeli hostages have been murdered in Gaza today/yesterday, it takes a very special person to support the people responsible for these actions. 🥴

[ozimoron]

28 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You appear to have not learned anything, you want a ceasefire so the terrorists can regroup and start more 7/10s and you advocate an unworkable two state solution that neither side wants.

 

The negotiations call for an administration of Gaza and the west bank which does not include Hamas. Without any official status and without support from Israel Hamas would be powerless save for some outstanding extremists who would be opposed by the Palestinian police under a new administration

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

Israel and Palestine should come to a two-state agreement.

Good luck with that as neither side wants that.