Thanks endure for holding your hand up

come on now there must be more people who want to get something off their chest.

I'm not 'holding my hand up' just pointing out the situation at the time. BTW editing your posts after I've posted in order to 'score points' doesn't do you any favours.

endure you know I believe in good journalism ,thats why I would not do something like that.

belive me I am new to computers and would not have the skill to "score points" I assure you,.

endure you know I believe in good journalism ,thats why I would not do something like that.

The evidence is there for all to see.

You edited your post to add "...but they won't put their hand up and say" I was wrong" " a minute after I posted my reply.

it wasnt intentional, just luck

you are the person with all the guns ,why would I TAKE YOU ON?

I am shy about my spelling errors

OK, no problem. The point I was making was that at the time, the predictions the medics were making was based on the information available to them so they weren't 'wrong', just not as well-informed as we are now.

I don't think any health professional made unqualified predictions of the numbers of deaths that were expected from AIDS.

My recollection is they made predictions along the lines of:

'If current rates of infection continue'

or perhaps

'If no means of preventing the spread of this disease is found we can expect death rates to reach...'.

Such statements are often missquoted by the press or people who wish to misrepresent medical opinion.

Needless to say there have been a number of factors which have impacted all initial predictions.

Thailand in particular has had a huge success at promoting HIV Safe Behaviour and Practices, not just safe sex, but clinical practices, and such things as teaching barbars to change razor blades etc.

Add to this Thailand has provided funds to purchase and access to cheap anti viral drugs, so as with any country where anti HIV Viral drugs are made available the death rates from HIV plummit.

So to claim that the medical profressionals were wrong has no meaning when all these changes in the management and treatment of HIV have changed.

Conversely, in Africa, where there has been little or no sucess in implementing changes of behaviour and where for many reasons Anti HIV Viral drugs are not available, the death rates from HIV are in the millions.

So Thailand did something about Aids and the deaths from Aids have been controlled, Africa did not and the deaths from Aids in Africa are evidence of the medical predictions being correct.

endure sorry but......thats what a politician would say

endure sorry but......thats what a politician would say

No, it's what someone who doesn't have the benefit of 20 years of hindsight would say but you must believe as you wish.

"Conversely, in Africa, where there has been little or no sucess in implementing changes of behaviour and where for many reasons Anti HIV Viral drugs are not available, the death rates from HIV are in the millions."

Correct, one of the biggest disgraces in our current time. In some African countries, becomming HIV + still looks like an indirect death sentence. Partly because of their governments inability to make these drugs available, partly because of the farmaceutical industry.

well my final word before I go is .......I personally think they (the medical establishment) done their best as always and did probably do the right thing in informing people of the possible concequeces but although they were wrong,in their predictions it should be noted by one and all that the majority view is not allways the right one,(medical prfession and all)

P.S. Iam sure endure mean't to apologise for accusing me of underhand editing,,,,,,maybe later eh?.......bye

I'm interested in your motivation for starting this thread.

Having shagged so many pieces of poxed-up totty, have you got that little seed of doubt in your mind about whether you are HIV+, and you can't bring yourself to confront your demons, so you invent this nice little cosy theory that it's not so bad after all and big, strong, virile blokes like yourself just don't catch such nasty things?

I hope you've convinced yourself, because your outbursts on here serve to convince no-one else.

"Conversely, in Africa, where there has been little or no sucess in implementing changes of behaviour and where for many reasons Anti HIV Viral drugs are not available, the death rates from HIV are in the millions."

Correct, one of the biggest disgraces in our current time. In some African countries, becomming HIV + still looks like an indirect death sentence. Partly because of their governments inability to make these drugs available, partly because of the farmaceutical industry.

Don't you think that having one doctor per 30,000 people might have something to do with it? And the distances between villages and towns? To be travelled on foot usually. Many of the governments have the wherewithal to do something about the problem but they prefer to siphon of a goodly amount of aid monies into private Swiss accounts. Check out Swaziland where the King has umpteen young ladies as wives and buys each of them a posh car and other fripperies while his subjects are dying like flies.

This is not to say that I have a truck or sympathy with the pharma combines.

It's very sad when people twist the words of knowledgeable people to support what is probably their own risky behavior. HIV/AIDS is a serious issue. The death rates began falling once effective medications were introduced. It doesn't mean people won't or don't die of it, because they do; it does mean that it will progress at very different rates in different people depending on the effectiveness of the medication, allergic reactions and negative side effects, etc.

In Thailand a lot of people have died of the disease. Many of them at home, away from hospital or doctor care. There deaths were either not reported, underreported or misreported. Since the gov't was providing medication and the families couldn't afford it, it didn't really seem to matter much.

Many of us do things that put us at risk of HIV. Wishing it away or decided you can't really catch it that way is simply wrong and it doesn't change the facts.

If it's not a problem then why are they using compulsory licensing for the drugs to treat it?

Whether you die of it or not is not always the case. Just look what happens to any family where the man of the house gets his wife infected with herpes or genital warts, both totally permanent, like HIV. It's an etched in stone confession of one's infidelities that rears it's head up several times a year in relapses (likely for the rest of your life).

Although I'd imagine, in the OP's case he'd just blame the wife or the toilet.

I'm not a medical professional, but IMO if you get either of those HIV transmission facilitating diseases, you've got a really good chance of getting one of the 'terminal' STD's here in the LOS... like Hep C or HIV.

There are groups here (that foreigners often interact with and marry by the way) that go through more volume in unsafe sex - sexual partners than your typical African population.

I think you'll find that Thais interact with them more.

Absolutely. The foreigner is often the last or few from the last link on the train... as per all those guys hiring private eyes and those wondering if this other guy is really her "brother" or not.

edit: should be "train" instead of "chain"

I am convinced that to draw to attention the fact that women and gay activivties are the "high risk" groups" and why do you ask for my motives or do YOU have a problem with that... ??...bird on the wire?

PIECES OF POXED UP TOTTY?......BIRD ON THE WIRE said.........A decent person would describe "working girls".....its is quite obvious that you must hate thai "working girls please tell us all WHY?

how does that old song go?..."raindrops keep falling on my head"? .....no no! coconuts keep falling on my head!!

Much of life is about how much risk we feel comfortable with. It's true being a heterosexual male greatly reduces risk but doesn't' eliminate it. Is reduced risk a safe enough enough amount of risk to make you not use a condom? Everyone ultimately must decide for themselves.

OK, no problem. The point I was making was that at the time, the predictions the medics were making was based on the information available to them so they weren't 'wrong', just not as well-informed as we are now.

By the same logic, the US Senate was not wrong to vote to give Bush approval to attack Iraq.

PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO SHOUT ,WHAT THE FACTS ARE because as I said the chances of dying from AIDS from the group I am in is NIL.

Funny coincidence.

One of my wife's brothers said exactly the same thing for the last two years or so, since he knew that his wife was HIV positive. After last year's test came out negative, he still defended his practice of bonking his wife (well, since a few months ex-wife, she left him and married another bloke) without condom.

The next few days the wife and me have been given the not so easy job by his doctor to explain him that his last test came out positive, and that he has to live now with AIDS and all the consequences.

But if you believe that heterosexual intercourse will not get you infected - up to you.

ColPyat you was'nt listening ......your brother in law .....different strain! and do you know for sure thats all your brother in law was getting up to?

A European hetrosexual male who does not practise anal sex .what are the odds of him dying of aids?.....plus of course the fact that new HIV drugs are available........not.... whats the chance of him being infected with hiv....etc.....I think you will find if you look closely that coconuts might have to be brought into the equation!

point taken ihatebendix!