Tourists, Residents Panic As Fire Breaks Out At Pattaya High-Rise Condo

[webfact]

 

TOURISTS AND local residents fled in panic after a fire broke out at a unit within a 31-storey luxury condominium building on Second Pattaya road at 1.30 p.m. today (Mar. 16) but this was extinguished in half an hour.

 

Pattaya’s Public Disaster Prevention Department quickly alerted firefighters who rushed to the building with three fire engines and a crane fire truck. Also helping out were rescuers from Sawang Boriboon Foundation.

 

Upon reaching the building they saw smoke pouring out of a unit on the 11th floor frightening both condo residents and those living nearby.

 

by TNR Staff

Fire at a luxury condo in Pattaya Saturday, Mar. 16, 2024. Photo: Matichon

 

Full story: THAI NEWSROOM 2024-03-18

 

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[scubascuba3]

Lucky to put the fire out, a weak hose aimed a couple floors up

[jacko45k]

17 minutes ago, Joe Farang said:

I don't remember the last time I saw a sprinkler system in a Condo/Hotel in any part of the world(Mainly Europe)

Someone said the video showed a hose being used from another condo......so the building has hosepipe points and pressurized water supply on various floors?

[Georgealbert]

10 minutes ago, Joe Farang said:

I don't remember the last time I saw a sprinkler system in a Condo/Hotel in any part of the world(Mainly Europe)

The law in the UK was changed in 2022, that required all buildings over 11m, to have sprinkler systems, believe EU laws are similar.

 

Remember that sprinklers are required as a life safety measure, these regulations are not about building protection, that is left to the insurance companies to require.

 

Hotel safety in the UK, is based on achieving a safe evacuation, by 1. Fire detection (fire alarm systems), 2. Fire containment (fire doors, self closers, sprinklers), 3. Safe evacuation routes (signage and emergency lighting), 4. Staff awareness (training, records and fire drills), 5. Maintaining fire safety protection (testing systems, escapes routes kept clear and unlocked)

 

Also many premises now use recessed sprinkler heads, so all you see is the flat cover, see below.

[Joe Farang]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Someone said the video showed a hose being used from another condo......so the building has hosepipe points and pressurized water supply on various floors?

I believe the reason water sprinklers are no longer or rarely used is that they do more damage to peoples property than fires.

[Joe Farang]

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

The law in the UK was changed in 2022, that required all buildings over 11m, to have sprinkler systems, believe EU laws are similar.

 

Remember that sprinklers are required as a life safety measure, these regulations are not about building protection, that is left to the insurance companies to require.

 

Hotel safety in the UK, is based on achieving a safe evacuation, by 1. Fire detection (fire alarm systems), 2. Fire containment (fire doors, self closers, sprinklers), 3. Safe evacuation routes (signage and emergency lighting), 4. Staff awareness (training, records and fire drills), 5. Maintaining fire safety protection (testing systems, escapes routes kept clear and unlocked)

 

Also many premises now use recessed sprinkler heads, so all you see is the flat cover, see below.

Ok, You sound like you know your stuff on this subject. Different to my experiences, maybe sprinklers are making a comeback since 2022

[Georgealbert]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Someone said the video showed a hose being used from another condo......so the building has hosepipe points and pressurized water supply on various floors?

Given the size of this building, it will have a wet riser, firefighting system.

 

That will include, cabinet with hose reels and fire service hose connection on each floor.

Main and back up fire pumps, normally in underground car park.

Water tank to supply the wet riser, ground or underground level.

Fire service connection to riser, to supplement supply.

Jockey pumps, to maintain pressure at high floors.

 

[Georgealbert]

4 minutes ago, Joe Farang said:

I believe the reason water sprinklers are no longer or rarely used is that they do more damage to peoples property than fires.

Sorry that is a myth.
 

Only a sprinkler head over the fire will activate, not the whole system. The sprinkler is designed to contain the fire, so limits fire, heat and smoke damage.

 

The water from a sprinkler head is far less than from a firefighting hose.

 

Firefighting has improved over the years, but often the damage from the firefighting operation is greater than a small fire or a sprinkler system.

[Georgealbert]

15 minutes ago, Joe Farang said:

Ok, You sound like you know your stuff on this subject. Different to my experiences, maybe sprinklers are making a comeback since 2022

Many premises are being pushed into installing sprinklers by the insurance companies, as it offers protection of the building.

 

Fire safety regulations are only about life safety and allowing a safe evacuation of any building in a suitable time.

 

The problem with most new regulations are they do not require an upgrade to existing buildings.

 

UK hotels were first required to apply and maintain a fire certificate, under Fire Precautions Act 1971, Building Act 1984 improved new buildings, Fire Precautions (Workplace) Regulations 1997 brought in EU standards, Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 required premises to do their own fire assessment and The Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022, consolidated everything.

[HauptmannUK]

46 minutes ago, Joe Farang said:

I don't remember the last time I saw a sprinkler system in a Condo/Hotel in any part of the world(Mainly Europe)

Plenty of sprinkler systems around the world, often with recessed heads. My wife's condo in Pattaya has sprinklers.

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Someone said the video showed a hose being used from another condo......so the building has hosepipe points and pressurized water supply on various floors?

In a high rise condo building one would hope they would have fire-hoses at certain levels.

[JoePai]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Someone said the video showed a hose being used from another condo......so the building has hosepipe points and pressurized water supply on various floors?

Most do

[Georgealbert]

This incident highlights that a good standard of external cladding was used. The fire had very little vertical spread and so the cladding had limited combustibility.

 

Shame that the same standards are no longer used in many developed countries, then we would not have seen incidents like Grenfell Tower, in the UK.

 

Also the headlines are a bit dramatic, for what was a minor fire.

 

Here is a similar external fire in a block in Russia, last week, I think people would panic there.

 

 

Edited March 18 by Georgealbert

[Georgealbert]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Lucky to put the fire out, a weak hose aimed a couple floors up

Low pressure was the best way to put out the fire and prevent any further damage. This was a minor fire, with minor external damage and some internal smoke damage. The building was evacuated because the fire alarm would have sounded, but really there was no need for any panic.
 

Using a higher pressure jet, which I am sure would have been available from the wet riser fire main, could have dislodged  damaged material, allowing it to fall on people, vehicles or property. Some videos online, show some of that damaged material had been displaced and fallen to the ground. 
 

There was no need to use vast amounts of water to contain and extinguish the fire, and hence preventing the risk of causing unnecessary water damage.

 

Dislodging burning material, by applying a high pressure water jet into the burning material, would also allow for potential fire spread to other units or property , from either directly from the falling burning material or the embers blown about.

 

Firefighting from below, allows for a clear view of the fire, not restricted by rising smoke, and safer for the responders having little exposure to heat, smoke or steam produced from firefighting. 

[scubascuba3]

35 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Low pressure was the best way to put out the fire and prevent any further damage. This was a minor fire, with minor external damage and some internal smoke damage. The building was evacuated because the fire alarm would have sounded, but really there was no need for any panic.
 

Using a higher pressure jet, which I am sure would have been available from the wet riser fire main, could have dislodged  damaged material, allowing it to fall on people, vehicles or property. Some videos online, show some of that damaged material had been displaced and fallen to the ground. 
 

There was no need to use vast amounts of water to contain and extinguish the fire, and hence preventing the risk of causing unnecessary water damage.

 

Dislodging burning material, by applying a high pressure water jet into the burning material, would also allow for potential fire spread to other units or property , from either directly from the falling burning material or the embers blown about.

 

Firefighting from below, allows for a clear view of the fire, not restricted by rising smoke, and safer for the responders having little exposure to heat, smoke or steam produced from firefighting. 

You may be right but it looked so weak it couldn't reach the higher floor on fire, per the video

[Georgealbert]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You may be right but it looked so weak it couldn't reach the higher floor on fire, per the video

Maybe does not look good on the video, but effective and sensible approach.

 

Pattaya City also have a number of ALPs (aerial ladder platforms) based at each of the 3 stations (3rd road, Jomtien and Na Kluea) which would reach, to allow external fire fighting if the incident had warranted it.

[tomazbodner]

How could an aircon compressor in a room that's not sold (so aircon not running) blow up and catch fire? Daikin uses R32 gas, the most advanced coolant, and very difficult to ignite (see video below).

 

Only way this could happen would be sustained fire inside compressor box to allow gas to be trapped there long enough to ignite. But what could cause a sustained fire?

 

I'm really looking forward to see what the investigation comes up with.

 

 

Edited March 18 by tomazbodner

[Fruit Trader]

38 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

How could an aircon compressor in a room that's not sold (so aircon not running) blow up and catch fire? Daikin uses R32 gas, the most advanced coolant, and very difficult to ignite (see video below).

 

Only way this could happen would be sustained fire inside compressor box to allow gas to be trapped there long enough to ignite. But what could cause a sustained fire?

 

I'm really looking forward to see what the investigation comes up with.

 

How could an AC air compressor blow up and catch fire in a room that's not occupied. Maybe a staff member left the AC switched on.

 

Clue - A housekeeper in the building said she heard a loud explosion.

 

If an AC compressor suffers from extreme overheating there's a chance it will vent or explode. What happens to the hot oil and surrounding materials is up to the gods. 

[Georgealbert]

57 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

How could an aircon compressor in a room that's not sold (so aircon not running) blow up and catch fire? Daikin uses R32 gas, the most advanced coolant, and very difficult to ignite (see video below).

 

Only way this could happen would be sustained fire inside compressor box to allow gas to be trapped there long enough to ignite. But what could cause a sustained fire?

 

I'm really looking forward to see what the investigation comes up with.

 

 

The news report in the OP says “A housekeeper at this condo building said this unit was unoccupied and she heard a loud explosion after which a cloud of smoke billowed out.”, not sure if the unit was unsold, was not occupied or the occupiers were just out at the time.

 

Any investigation will need to establish if the compressor unit was in fact turned on or connected to live electrics, had the condo’s electrical supply been tripped ? When was the last time anyone was in the condo or used the air con?

 

The seat of the fire will be easy to establish, from burn patterns and the fire/heat damage on the balcony.

 

Was the compressor unit new, recently installed, recently serviced or had any previous reported problems, such as overheating or tripping the electrical supply?

 

Was there any damaged wiring or loose electrical connections, statistically fires that start within any air conditioner, are over one-third of the time, started by ignition to the insulation on an electrical wire or cable.
 

Being high up can not see mice/rats being a problem, but any evidence of geckos or birds nesting in the compressor unit.

 

Was there any combustible or flammable material stored nearby, next to or on top of the compressor unit?

 

The only people interested in the investigation will be the insurers, and we will never know, as the media has already moved on.

 

 

Edited March 18 by Georgealbert

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Maybe does not look good on the video, but effective and sensible approach.

 

Pattaya City also have a number of ALPs (aerial ladder platforms) based at each of the 3 stations (3rd road, Jomtien and Na Kluea) which would reach, to allow external fire fighting if the incident had warranted it.

You seem to know about this stuff, how many floors up can people be rescued from the outside?

[Georgealbert]

59 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You seem to know about this stuff, how many floors up can people be rescued from the outside?

The largest ALP (aerial ladder platform) that I have seen in Pattaya should be able to reach to about the 18th floor, but that could be restricted by where the appliance can be set up. The Thai building act does require providing some emergency access, but I have no idea how strictly it is enforced. It has been some time since I had a look, so do not know if this one is still in service.
 

In the UK it is strictly enforced by the local authorities under section B5 of the building regulations, but even in the UK that emergency appliance access is not required to all sides of a building.

 

The standard ALP in Pattaya is good to about the 10th floor, and these I believed are based at all 3 stations. When the Royal Jomtien Resort Hotel, caught fire in 1997, the nearest high access appliance had to come from Bangkok, 91 people died, and many were airlifted off the roof by 3 Bangkok police helicopters.

 

This is also why maintenance and regular testing of the installed fire protection measures is needed in high rise premises. That includes, fire walls, fire separation, fire doors, pressurised evacuation staircases, escape routes, emergency signage, fire mains, fire pumps, sprinkler systems, fire alarms, emergency lighting, plus drills and training.

 

In London at the time of Grenfell, London Fire Service had nothing that reached aboVe the 10 floor, the bigger appliances has been withdrawn by a past mayor. The nearest appliance that could reach higher was sent from Leatherhead, Surrey Fire Service. London has since been equipped with 64m ladders.

 

 

Edited March 18 by Georgealbert

[metisdead]

Some troll posts trolling about not reading the links and the replies have been removed.  If you're not willing to read the links and then post untruthful misinformation, posts will be removed as all it does is leads to bickering. 

[bbi1]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:57 AM, webfact said:

 

TOURISTS AND local residents fled in panic after a fire broke out at a unit within a 31-storey luxury condominium building on Second Pattaya road at 1.30 p.m. today (Mar. 16) but this was extinguished in half an hour.

 

 

Not all fled in panic. There was this one Indian dude standing on his balcony at one of the front rooms looking down at all the people on the street, multiple firetrucks in front of The Edge condo, ambulance and police vehicles and he didn't give a toss that the building was on fire.

[bbi1]

On 3/18/2024 at 12:16 PM, Georgealbert said:

Low pressure was the best way to put out the fire and prevent any further damage. This was a minor fire, with minor external damage and some internal smoke damage. The building was evacuated because the fire alarm would have sounded, but really there was no need for any panic.

There was totally no panic by that Indian dude on his balcony casually looking down at all the people and firetrucks down below on the street.

 

That being said, nobody takes fire alarms in condos seriously. The fire alarm in my condo goes of many times a year. People stay in their rooms when they hear the alarm.

Edited March 21 by bbi1

[Georgealbert]

47 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

There was totally no panic by that Indian dude on his balcony casually looking down at all the people and firetrucks down below on the street.

 

That being said, nobody takes fire alarms in condos seriously. The fire alarm in my condo goes of many times a year. People stay in their rooms when they hear the alarm.

That is the problem with fire alarms, too many false alarms and people become complacent, and often ignore them sounding. Boy calling wolf syndrome.

 

Also emergencies are a spectator event, with many not seeing the risks to themselves.

 

A zoned alarm with correct detection, would reduce the number of false alarms and it would only sound in the affected areas. It would sound on the floor where the problem is detected, 1 floor below and 2 above. This also reduces the pressure on escape routes with fewer people using them. Should it be a real fire, then further operation of any detectors would expand the evacuation floors, or the building management can operate the system manually.

 

Any condo block suffering too many false alarms, really needs to do an assessment of why it is happening, is it down to wrong type of detectors, are the detectors in the wrong location, is it caused by poor management procedures, is the system correctly maintained and tested regularly. UK toolkit on reducing false alarms, attached for guidance.

 

Also remember, that Grenfell, in the UK had a stay put policy in place. This would allow a reduction in the amount of escape routes, giving more floor space to develop. Stay put policies work, providing good fire separation of units and public access spaces, horizontally and vertically is maintained at all times. This was not the case in Grenfell, where building work above walls and doors had breached the fire walls, hence the initial fire spread from a small fire, household refrigerator. The secondary fire spread, by the external cladding made both evacuation and firefighting an impossible task.

 

https://www.extinguisher.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/CFRS-Reducing-False-Alarms-Toolkit.pdf

Edited March 21 by Georgealbert

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Not all fled in panic. There was this one Indian dude standing on his balcony at one of the front rooms looking down at all the people on the street, multiple firetrucks in front of The Edge condo, ambulance and police vehicles and he didn't give a toss that the building was on fire.

Busy cooking his lunch on the balcony!