New tax laws

[UKresonant]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I don't, really.

 

The recommendation I have made in the new Simple Tax Guide is as follows:

 

COMINGLED FUNDS

 

57) Funds from various sources that are all contained in the same bank account are referred to as commingled funds. Trying to account for them separately can be difficult, unless you keep complete records that show the individual sources of those funds. Much of this comes down to individual discipline and the ability to retain and file receipts and statements. Some tax authorities have policies regarding commingled funds, policies such as LIFO, (last in, first out) which is primarily an inventory management technique but can be used with commingled fund accounts. We are not aware of the TRD policy regarding commingled funds or even if one exists. If you hold funds in this way, the two options open to you currently are, keep detailed records that describe all the feeds into a commingled account, or separate the sources into their own accounts.

When this Tax policy change was announced, for 2024 I decided that all taxed at source pensions go to one bank, and dividends go to another bank.

I've jinxed it! The two selected banks are merging later in the year!

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, Unknown1 said:

To be honest I think that any confrontation with them is lose-lose situation with high risks. I'm thinking about pay now and try to clarify it later (deadline is 9th April, so no time now). Can I request a refund later if I believe that tax was paid by mistake? They probably won't return it unless proper documentation is provided. This looks like a "safe" decision.

 

Looks like an uninformed decision. There is nothing -- yet -- that says using FIFO to categorize remittances is illegal. You're completely kosher to consider that 30k remittance as non-assessable, by being principal, not income. And, do you think you're on their radar screen, with your (relatively) piddly remittances? Or, you'll be one of the 300,000 expats, with remittances, to be called into the office to parse those remittances? No way, Jose.

 

Forget filing. Go have a beer.

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Looks like an uninformed decision. There is nothing -- yet -- that says using FIFO to categorize remittances is illegal. You're completely kosher to consider that 30k remittance as non-assessable, by being principal, not income. And, do you think you're on their radar screen, with your (relatively) piddly remittances? Or, you'll be one of the 300,000 expats, with remittances, to be called into the office to parse those remittances? No way, Jose.

 

Forget filing. Go have a beer.

You appear to be very cavalier about telling members to ignore this and that, which, whilst that advice may well appeal greatly to the common sense side of things, doesn't always match up with the way the laws are written. I on the other hand would feel much more comfortable presenting the facts, even if that means saying I don't know, and leaving others to make their own decisions.

[JimGant]

8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You appear to be very cavalier about telling members to ignore this and that, which, whilst that advice may well appeal greatly to the common sense side of things, doesn't always match up with the way the laws are written. I on the other hand would feel much more comfortable presenting the facts, even if that means saying I don't know, and leaving others to make their own decisions.

 

There are no laws written about FIFO and LIFO for remittances, at least that are discoverable by the Thai taxpayer, or at least for now. Thus, you're free to choose how to identify a remittance of co-mingled funds. If you got into an argument on this point with an RD official, I believe you'd have sufficient grounds to stand on.

 

Your approach of, "I don't know, you make your own decision" is, I guess, one way to present guidance to folks looking for advice. To me, it's a cop out: You don't even offer a pros and cons scenario, with a recommended best choice.

 

My years as a CPA, doing taxes for airline flight personnel (yes, not expats), showed me the US Tax Code is full of omissions and conflictions. As such, there are gray areas, that have two or more avenues, and where you give your client the avenue best to his advantage. I won most of my audits (and the few I lost weren't with prejudice). You give it your best shot, and if you lose -- because it wasn't a frivolous tax dodge -- you're in the, "well, we gave it our best shot."

 

So, Unkown1, I present a gray area that you can take advantage of, without any possible negative consequence, that I can imagine, under the current law. Or you can take Mike's Simple Tax Guidance, which is so simple, it doesn't provide any guidance, or at least alternatives, at all. Good luck.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

 

There are no laws written about FIFO and LIFO for remittances, at least that are discoverable by the Thai taxpayer, or at least for now. Thus, you're free to choose how to identify a remittance of co-mingled funds. If you got into an argument on this point with an RD official, I believe you'd have sufficient grounds to stand on.

 

Your approach of, "I don't know, you make your own decision" is, I guess, one way to present guidance to folks looking for advice. To me, it's a cop out: You don't even offer a pros and cons scenario, with a recommended best choice.

 

My years as a CPA, doing taxes for airline flight personnel (yes, not expats), showed me the US Tax Code is full of omissions and conflictions. As such, there are gray areas, that have two or more avenues, and where you give your client the avenue best to his advantage. I won most of my audits (and the few I lost weren't with prejudice). You give it your best shot, and if you lose -- because it wasn't a frivolous tax dodge -- you're in the, "well, we gave it our best shot."

 

So, Unkown1, I present a gray area that you can take advantage of, without any possible negative consequence, that I can imagine, under the current law. Or you can take Mike's Simple Tax Guidance, which is so simple, it doesn't provide any guidance, or at least alternatives, at all. Good luck.

 

 

The difference between us is that you're in the business of guidance, I'm in the business of providing information. I'll happily tell people what their options are and that's it, I'll leave it to others to tell them which one to pick. If this were the UK, I'd have no problem giving UK tax guidance but here, it's far too dangerous.

 

On that note, my suggestion for commingled funds, is, don't commingle funds. Or if you really must, keep all the paperwork and understand at the detail level, how to decomingle funds.

[topt]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

don't commingle funds.

Is good advice but potentially, for many, it may not be that easy. If resident here and not going back "home" opening different accounts can be problematic and off-shore accounts possibly overly costly.

Agreed however on the paperwork. 

 

[superal]

I was told the following today by a  European guy whose wife is a Thai accountant . 

Foreigners will be asked for their proof of income for long stays in Thailand when applying for their yearly visa . Along with their tax return . No conformity could mean visa refusal .

This lady accountant is now helping many farangs with their tax liabilities and in some cases has reduced their tax burden by over 50% . 

This is not a promotion for her business as she is now very busy already . I would assume that tax returns submitted by a Thai accountant would carry credence ?

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, superal said:

I was told the following today by a  European guy whose wife is a Thai accountant . 

Foreigners will be asked for their proof of income for long stays in Thailand when applying for their yearly visa . Along with their tax return . No conformity could mean visa refusal .

This lady accountant is now helping many farangs with their tax liabilities and in some cases has reduced their tax burden by over 50% . 

This is not a promotion for her business as she is now very busy already . I would assume that tax returns submitted by a Thai accountant would carry credence ?

The story as it stands is not credible.

 

There are plenty of valid reasons why somebody may not have a copy of a tax return, simply, they don't need to file, just like over 50% of Thai's don't need to file.

 

 

[topt]

1 minute ago, superal said:

I was told the following today by a  European guy whose wife is a Thai accountant . 

Foreigners will be asked for their proof of income for long stays in Thailand when applying for their yearly visa . Along with their tax return . No conformity could mean visa refusal .

This lady accountant is now helping many farangs with their tax liabilities and in some cases has reduced their tax burden by over 50% . 

This is not a promotion for her business as she is now very busy already . I would assume that tax returns submitted by a Thai accountant would carry credence ?

Which Immigration office would this be at?

Currently in full agreement with @Mike Lister

[superal]

5 minutes ago, topt said:

Which Immigration office would this be at?

Currently in full agreement with @Mike Lister

To you and Mike , don't shoot the messenger . Just saying what I was told and I hope that Mike is correct .

[topt]

Just now, superal said:

To you and Mike , don't shoot the messenger . Just saying what I was told and I hope that Mike is correct .

So why can't you say which area this is and the immigration office(s) that would be asking this. Then we could see if other posters potentially have relevant experience to clarify either way?

 

[mfd101]

On 3/29/2024 at 7:25 PM, Mike Lister said:

Which Stage Are You At?

 

1) Denial - it’ll never happen

 

2) Anger - bloody incompetents, they don’t tax their own people so they tax us, low hanging fruit

 

3) Bargaining - I could spend 179 days here and then holiday in Cambodia for 7 days and then….blah blah

 

4) Depression - I’m so pissed off, me and the wife we’re leaving and going home

 

5) Acceptance - Well, it’s only going to be about 12k baht per year so not too bad.

I think there's a POSSIBLE 6th category: Opportunity.

 

At least for an Australian like me who brings in roughly 2 million Baht a year, income entirely from OZ Federal Govt superannuation (ie former public servant, NOT OAP), and has been declared non-resident for tax purposes for the last 3 or 4 Oz tax years. The Oz Tax Office (ATO) now in effect confiscates 32% of my income.

 

Calculating the Thai alternative suggests I may well be better off paying all Thai & no Oz tax. Particularly if I can also get refunds on the Oz tax paid for the last several years.

 

Working on it.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

2 hours ago, superal said:

Foreigners will be asked for their proof of income for long stays in Thailand when applying for their yearly visa .

Foreigners like me don't apply for an yearly visa. An extension based on [whatever] is not a visa.

[superal]

4 hours ago, topt said:

So why can't you say which area this is and the immigration office(s) that would be asking this. Then we could see if other posters potentially have relevant experience to clarify either way?

 

Because he never mentioned it but I can ask him the question next Sunday when I will see him again and I will let you know .

[Wrwest]

On 3/29/2024 at 9:22 AM, Mike Lister said:

If you agree with that post you quoted, you need to start studying tax law once again but with a focus on Thai tax rules this time...the post is quite simply, wrong.

 

 

Sorry? What post did I quote?

[Wrwest]

On 3/29/2024 at 11:51 AM, freeworld said:

Thailand is not dealing with the American system. They are only interested in the Thai tax system and income remitted to or earned in Thailand under their laws.

Appears to me that as my deductions, exemptions would affect sable income, Thailand might have some interest.

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, Wrwest said:

Sorry? What post did I quote?

This, I think. Page 1

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1323489-new-tax-laws/?do=findComment&comment=18801755

[Wrwest]

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

This, I think. Page 1

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1323489-new-tax-laws/?do=findComment&comment=18801755

Sorry, Mike, I was responding with my perspective to the post not quoting. After reading the US tax treaty I do not think, and my tax filer here in Thailand confirms, currently at least, my income is not taxable by Thailand. But as the Zen Master said ... "we'll see" - credit for the line goes to the movie, "Charlie Wilson's War".