War a real threat and Europe not ready, warns Poland's Tusk

[Social Media]

 

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk's recent stark warning to Europe has reverberated across the continent, with his assertion that the region has entered a "pre-war era" sending shockwaves through political circles and public discourse. Tusk's dire assessment, delivered in a candid interview with European media, underscores the escalating tensions stemming from Russia's ongoing aggression against Ukraine and the broader geopolitical ramifications for European security.

 

Against the backdrop of relentless Russian bombardment targeting Ukraine, Tusk's message serves as a wake-up call to the looming specter of conflict on Europe's doorstep. His assertion that war is no longer a distant concept but a palpable reality underscores the gravity of the situation facing the continent. With Ukraine's resilience under siege and energy infrastructure targeted, the repercussions of Russia's aggression are acutely felt, casting a shadow of uncertainty over the region's future.

 

 

Tusk's call for Europe to bolster its defenses and assert greater autonomy in security matters reflects a growing consensus among European leaders. Emphasizing the need for collective action and solidarity, Tusk warns that the fate of Ukraine holds profound implications for Europe's safety and stability. The specter of war looms large, prompting urgent reflections on the continent's preparedness and resolve in the face of mounting threats.

 

 

Amidst heightened tensions, Tusk's appeal for increased military aid to Ukraine underscores the imperative of supporting the embattled nation in its struggle for survival. The stark realities of the conflict underscore the urgency of international solidarity and cooperation in confronting aggression and upholding the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity.

 

Tusk's somber reflections on the eve of potential conflict evoke poignant reminders of Europe's tumultuous history and the enduring legacy of past conflicts. As memories of World War II linger, Tusk's invocation of a "pre-war era" serves as a sobering reminder of the fragility of peace and the imperative of vigilance in safeguarding against the resurgence of conflict.

 

Despite the sobering challenges ahead, Tusk remains cautiously optimistic about Europe's capacity to adapt and respond to the evolving security landscape. Citing a newfound awareness of Russia's threat and enhanced cooperation among European nations, Tusk highlights signs of progress in confronting shared security challenges.

 

However, amidst the ominous warnings and geopolitical uncertainties, the specter of Russian aggression looms large, casting a shadow of doubt over the continent's future. As Europe grapples with the prospect of conflict on its doorstep, the imperative of unity, resolve, and collective action has never been more pressing. In the face of adversity, Europe must stand firm in defense of its values and security, lest the specter of war becomes a grim reality once again.

 

30.03.24

Source

 

[beautifulthailand99]

Ukraine is losing and losing big and if it continues on this trajectory could collapse in the summer, Tusk and Macron get this and want to get all in. European electorates should realise that it's not our war and whilst many have emotional and human natural support for the plucky Ukrainians, we don't have a dog in this fight. We've been down this alleyway many times before, domino theory in Vietnam, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq which could hit us in 45 minutes and now Putin threatens us all. They were lies then and they are lies now. Putin is a nasty authoritarian dictator, popular in his own county, but his writ only applies to core countries of the old soviet empire, and he's a rational actor he knows NATO would spank his arse if he ever took any NATO country on. Time to crank down the warmongering we've had 2 world wars start in Europe, time to stop a third. You don't pour petrol on a raging fire.And you don't start a kinetic war with Russia - just ask Napoleon and Hitler. Their peer neighbours should construct huge defences and rearm if they want - it's their call as sovereign nations accountable to their own electorates, and rightly so. But here in the UK we have a ravaged economy, crumbling infrastructure and social welfare state on its knees. We want butter before guns.

 

Oh, and finally, if Trump wins and pulls the plug, it's over for Ukraine. Most of Europe will fold and suddenly will find it's more important to rebuild their own defences and armed forces than Ukraine, but they will be full of weasel words and empty gesture sabre-rattling. That's what they do.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ukraine-war-russia-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-b1148294.html

 

There is a growing understanding across the Western allies that Ukraine is losing the ground war against Russia, and by summer could face defeat.

Russia is pounding front lines with artillery, rocket and drone fire — and at over five times the rate the Ukrainian army can reply. Volodymyr Zelensky’s troops are exhausted — after sustaining in some sectors a heavier concentration of incoming artillery than at the Somme in 1916, or the Normandy Bocage after D-Day in 1944.

 

https://www.thearticle.com/defeat-of-the-west-emmanuel-todd-and-the-russo-ukrainian-war

 

Ukraine’s determination to reconquer the Donbas and reclaim Crimea is “a suicidal project”, Todd claims. It is trying “to maintain its sovereignty over the populations of another nation – a nation far more powerful than it is”. He continues: “The suicidal lack of realism in Kiev’s strategy suggests – paradoxically – a pathological Ukrainian attachment to Russia: a need for conflict which reveals an inability to separate from it.”

As for the West, Todd presents it as narcissistic and hubristically out of touch with the “Rest of the World”. Its “ideological solitude and ignorance of its own isolation” are the result of two decades of American-led globalisation and aggressive foreign policy. Backed up by an analysis of typical family structures and cultural and religious allegiances, Todd is not surprised that much of the Rest of the World is rooting for Russia, in its defiance of unipolar America-dominated hegemony and the “liberal international order”.

 

Edited March 30 by beautifulthailand99

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Ukraine is losing and losing big and if it continues on this trajectory could collapse in the summer, Tusk and Macron get this and want to get all in. European electorates should realise that it's not our war and whilst many have emotional and human natural support for the plucky Ukrainians, we don't have a dog in this fight. We've been down this alleyway many times before, domino theory in Vietnam, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq which could hit us in 45 minutes and now Putin threatens us all. They were lies then and they are lies now. Putin is a nasty authoritarian dictator, popular in his own county, but his writ only applies to core countries of the old soviet empire, and he's a rational actor he knows NATO would spank his arse if he ever took any NATO country on. Time to crank down the warmongering we've had 2 world wars start in Europe, time to stop a third. You don't pour petrol on a raging fire.And you don't start a kinetic war with Russia - just ask Napoleon and Hitler. Their peer neighbours should construct huge defences and rearm if they want - it's their call as sovereign nations accountable to their own electorates, and rightly so. But here in the UK we have a ravaged economy, crumbling infrastructure and social welfare state on its knees. We want butter before guns.

 

Oh, and finally, if Trump wins and pulls the plug, it's over for Ukraine. Most of Europe will fold and suddenly will find it's more important to rebuild their own defences and armed forces than Ukraine, but they will be full of weasel words and empty gesture sabre-rattling. That's what they do.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ukraine-war-russia-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-b1148294.html

 

There is a growing understanding across the Western allies that Ukraine is losing the ground war against Russia, and by summer could face defeat.

Russia is pounding front lines with artillery, rocket and drone fire — and at over five times the rate the Ukrainian army can reply. Volodymyr Zelensky’s troops are exhausted — after sustaining in some sectors a heavier concentration of incoming artillery than at the Somme in 1916, or the Normandy Bocage after D-Day in 1944.

 

https://www.thearticle.com/defeat-of-the-west-emmanuel-todd-and-the-russo-ukrainian-war

 

Ukraine’s determination to reconquer the Donbas and reclaim Crimea is “a suicidal project”, Todd claims. It is trying “to maintain its sovereignty over the populations of another nation – a nation far more powerful than it is”. He continues: “The suicidal lack of realism in Kiev’s strategy suggests – paradoxically – a pathological Ukrainian attachment to Russia: a need for conflict which reveals an inability to separate from it.”

As for the West, Todd presents it as narcissistic and hubristically out of touch with the “Rest of the World”. Its “ideological solitude and ignorance of its own isolation” are the result of two decades of American-led globalisation and aggressive foreign policy. Backed up by an analysis of typical family structures and cultural and religious allegiances, Todd is not surprised that much of the Rest of the World is rooting for Russia, in its defiance of unipolar America-dominated hegemony and the “liberal international order”.

 

You got there before me and said it far better than I could.

 

I was going to quip that if Tusk is so concerned then perhaps he should go fight on the front line.

 

I'm so sick of old men that keep sending young men to die. Is there no end to the BS?

 

IMO Tusk is doing what politicians always do, ramp up the fear of the people so they can get away with more BS. A plague on all warmongers.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I don't think the West is asleep. I think the West's leaders made a huge mistake and they just don't know what to do about it.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:25 AM, Social Media said:

Emphasizing the need for collective action and solidarity,

One hopes that does not include starting WW3 by sending NATO troops into Ukraine.

 

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

[Skipalongcassidy]

16 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

  Putin is a nasty authoritarian dictator, popular in his own county, but his writ only applies to core countries of the old soviet empire, and he's a rational actor he knows NATO would spank his arse if he ever took any NATO country on.  

What kind of dribble is this... Putin could give a flip about anyone but Putin... my guess is that he will kill himself and millions of others with the final nuclear solution before he is done... he is unhinged.

[sirineou]

17 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

We've been down this alleyway many times before, domino theory in Vietnam, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq which could hit us in 45 minutes and now Putin threatens us all.

One thing for sure. 

People never learn. 

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, sirineou said:

One thing for sure. 

People never learn. 

 

Sure they do.  Wars are an absolute boondoggle for the MIC, the donor class, and politicians.  Ordinary citizens and children, not so much.

 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Sure they do.  Wars are an absolute boondoggle for the MIC, the donor class, and politicians.  Ordinary citizens and children, not so much.

 

The evidence indicate that they don't

[retarius]

NATO is certainly intent on provoking a war. I'm not convinced that Russia will take the bait. They want Odesa and then they are done. 

[rabas]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

NATO is certainly intent on provoking a war. I'm not convinced that Russia will take the bait. They want Odesa and then they are done. 

 

After years of belligerency, covert and overt military action, lies, propaganda, and electoral  interference in major countries, Vladimir Putin starts the first major war of territorial conquest since the WW2 era brutally invading Ukraine with 100000s of troops, 1000s of tanks, committing countless war crimes.  His poorly laid out plans failing, he falls back to a bloody war of attrition along with a continual barrage of unconscionable threats to nuke major Western powers and destroy entire civilizations. His propaganda machinery echo these across the globe.  

 

Look Mom, look what NATO did!

 

Edited March 31 by rabas

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, rabas said:

Look Mom, look what NATO did!

 

A friend of mine in a NATO country yesterday complained bitterly "what NATO did". He's afraid that NATO might provoke Putin (who has been good for Russia and has made Russians rich) even more, so that Putin might nuke his country. So he is contemplating where to flee.

 

Funny thing is, he's thinking of another NATO country.

He's not even contemplating holidays in Russia, far less fleeing to Russia.

[Wobblybob]

6 hours ago, retarius said:

NATO is certainly intent on provoking a war. I'm not convinced that Russia will take the bait. They want Odesa and then they are done. 

Putin invades Ukraine and you say NATO is provoking a war. 

One of Mark Twains quotes is: "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"

 

 

 

[scottiejohn]

15 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"

Whilst I totally agree with the statement it is unlikely that Mark Twain actually made it!

One noteworthy find in our research was that, in August 2012, the quote appeared on Twitter with Twain's name for the first time, six years after Twitter was created and 102 years after his death in 1910.

Did Mark Twain Say 'No Amount of Evidence Will Ever Persuade an Idiot'? | Snopes.com

[Wobblybob]

39 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Whilst I totally agree with the statement it is unlikely that Mark Twain actually made it!

One noteworthy find in our research was that, in August 2012, the quote appeared on Twitter with Twain's name for the first time, six years after Twitter was created and 102 years after his death in 1910.

Did Mark Twain Say 'No Amount of Evidence Will Ever Persuade an Idiot'? | Snopes.com

Are you the official 'auto correct' of AN John, or is it becoming an obsession with you? 🤔

[rabas]

10 hours ago, Lorry said:

A friend of mine in a NATO country yesterday complained bitterly "what NATO did". He's afraid that NATO might provoke Putin (who has been good for Russia and has made Russians rich) even more, so that Putin might nuke his country. So he is contemplating where to flee.

 

Funny thing is, he's thinking of another NATO country.

He's not even contemplating holidays in Russia, far less fleeing to Russia.

You failed to quote the meaning of my post. 

 

Anyway, I'm curious why your friend would holiday in Russia as Putin nukes the world in support his war of territorial conquest, as you suggest.  Does he not know about nuclear stewardship?

 

Radioactive things don't age well. Nuclear stockpile stewardship [ref] ensures aging US warheads go bang when needed. The US has it, Putin doesn't. Why? Look at the list of super high tech required. 

 

No one benefits from nuclear war. Everyone knows that. Let's hope Putin does.

 

[Celsius]

I hope for a nuclear war. it would be a great story to tell my grandkids.

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

as Putin nukes the world in support his war of territorial conquest, as you suggest.

Or war in defence of NATO expansion. 

[rabas]

13 hours ago, Celsius said:

I hope for a nuclear war. it would be a great story to tell my grandkids.

 

I can see how you would get very high on that ... Celsius. 

[Wobblybob]

13 hours ago, sirineou said:

Or war in defence of NATO expansion. 

Countries join NATO because of their distrust of Russia and for no other reason, Finland and Sweden are a testament to that for without Russia there would be no need for NATO. NATO is not a country and you offer very little in logic to your meaningless post! 

[sirineou]

9 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

Countries join NATO because of their distrust of Russia and for no other reason, Finland and Sweden are a testament to that for without Russia there would be no need for NATO. NATO is not a country and you offer very little in logic to your meaningless post! 

Regardless of the reason why countries join NATO  . all arguable , the fact remains that they do , and as much as Russia might or might not be a thereat to them, so are they to Russia. 

I have a question though.  If Russia finds it difficult to occupy Ukraine, (a non NATO country and much weaker militarily than NATO) ),how the hell would Russia be a threat to the whole of NATO before it's eastern expansion?  

And if Finland and Sweden were in fear of invasion from Russia , what would prevent NATO to assist them if indeed were invaded.  Is NATO the only alliance available to European countries? To me it sounds like all of you are repeating American talking points, and frankly it is becoming boring. 

 

[Wobblybob]

31 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Regardless of the reason why countries join NATO  . all arguable , the fact remains that they do , and as much as Russia might or might not be a thereat to them, so are they to Russia. 

I have a question though.  If Russia finds it difficult to occupy Ukraine, (a non NATO country and much weaker militarily than NATO) ),how the hell would Russia be a threat to the whole of NATO before it's eastern expansion?  

And if Finland and Sweden were in fear of invasion from Russia , what would prevent NATO to assist them if indeed were invaded.  Is NATO the only alliance available to European countries? To me it sounds like

all of you are repeating American talking points, and frankly it is becoming boring. 

 

And it seems to me that you are parroting official Kremlin propaganda, you were the one that wrongly stated "NATO expansion" and I repeat the evidence speaks for itself, Finland and Sweden had no intention of ever joining NATO until Putin decided he would invade a sovereign country Ukraine, and as a result Sweden and Finland did join NATO out of fear that they might be the next ones on Putins shopping list, thus making Putin the best salesman that NATO could ever haver wished for. 

NATO was never a threat to Putin and you repeating Kremlin lies is very disingenuous! 

 

And if Finland and Sweden were in fear of invasion from Russia , what would prevent NATO to assist them if indeed were invaded.  Is NATO the only alliance available to European countries? To me it sounds like

 

It is better to be part of a family than relying on handouts, being a NATO member should guarantee you assistance when the Russian thugs come a knocking. 

 

[sirineou]

28 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

you were the one that wrongly stated "NATO expansion" and I repeat the evidence speaks for itself,

I am paroting Nothing simply stating facts that are part of the public record.Not my fault if you don't know  about it or is ignoring it,

 

28 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

NATO was never a threat to Putin and you repeating Kremlin lies is very disingenuous! 

Merkel said that NATO membership would have damaged Ukraine and that Putin would have seen it as akin to a “declaration of war,” according to Deutsche Welle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/08/angela-merkel-interview-russia-ukraine-war-nato/

 

 

Edited April 2 by sirineou

[Wobblybob]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I am paroting Nothing simply stating facts that are part of the public record.Not my fault if you don't know  about it or is ignoring it,

 

Merkel said that NATO membership would have damaged Ukraine and that Putin would have seen it as akin to a “declaration of war,” according to Deutsche Welle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/08/angela-merkel-interview-russia-ukraine-war-nato/

 

 

You saying you are "parroting nothing" is meaningless when you are parroting the Kremlin tropes, I tried to explain to why countries are rushing to join NATO but you seem to deliberately ignore it, why do you think countries join NATO, as I will probably never get a straight and honest out of you I will tell you......because they want to live in peace!

NATO was never a threat to Russia!

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

You saying you are "parroting nothing" is meaningless when you are parroting the Kremlin tropes,

Last time I checked Merkel was German . Sarkozy  who had the same opinion was French. Burns who is now CIA director and was then ambassador to Russia  , warned the US of the same is American.

You might want to research the issue a bit more before express an uninformed opinion.

 

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Last time I checked Merkel was German . Sarkozy  who had the same opinion was French. Burns who is now CIA director and was then ambassador to Russia  , warned the US of the same is American.

You might want to research the issue a bit more before express an uninformed opinion.

 

I have done my research thanks very much, you my want to stop reading TASS and propagating Kremlin propaganda, you claimed that NATO was "in defence of NATO expansion. Russian land grabbing does not equate to NATO expansion! 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I have done my research thanks very much, you my want to stop reading TASS and propagating Kremlin propaganda, you claimed that NATO was "in defence of NATO expansion. Russian land grabbing does not equate to NATO expansion! 

For the last time,

None on the people I quoted are Russians. Anyway,

Good talking to you

 

[Wobblybob]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

For the last time,

None on the people I quoted are Russians. Anyway,

Good talking to you

 

Which still doesn't answer why you stated, "in defence of NATO expansion" if NATO is expanding it is all down to Putin!

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Which still doesn't answer why you stated, "in defence of NATO expansion" if NATO is expanding it is all down to Putin!

If what Merkel, Sarkozy, Burns. and many others said 

"Ukraine induction into NATO, de facto declaration of war"  is true.

What do you think a country against whom war was declared does?

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

If what Merkel, Sarkozy, Burns. and many others said 

"Ukraine induction into NATO, de facto declaration of war"  is true.

What do you think a country against whom war was declared does?

I have no interest in what Merkel said and if I did I cannot read your supplied link as it is behind a paywall, which is against AN rules!

Ukraine was never going to be allowed into NATO until Putin illegally invaded their sovereign country and now there is a distinct possibility.