Thailand walks aisle to marriage equality: What it means for same-sex couples

[webfact]

At least 142 LGBTQIA+ couples have lined up to register their marriage as Thailand stands poised to become the first Southeast Asian nation to recognize unions of non-heterosexual people in law.

 

The draft amendment to Thailand’s Civil and Commercial Code, better known as the Marriage Equality Bill, has already sailed through the House of Representatives with overwhelming support. The Senate followed suit earlier this month by approving the bill in principle. At this rate, 284 LGBTQIA+ individuals should be able to lawfully tie the knot in Thailand before the end of this year.

 

“They will register their marriages at a historic moment,” Ann Chumaporn, an activist for gender diversity, told Thai PBS World.

Maple and her lover are among the 142 couples eager to launch a new era for Thailand by being the first to register their same-sex marriages.

 

“I really can’t wait for the bill to take effect,” said the 38-year-old, who asked for her full name to be withheld.

 

Maple already has a daughter from a previous relationship with a man. However, he can’t compare with her current partner, a 30-year-old transgender individual with whom she has now built a family.

 

“My son, now 18, has never talked about her biological father,” Maple revealed. “She calls my current partner Pa [dad]”.

 

Her trans partner loves and takes good care of her son, she adds. He has supported her son the way a good father would, even taking charge of transporting the teenager to and from tuition classes after school.

 

“Society tends to think that marriages among heterosexual couples are happier. But that’s not true,” said Maple, who works as a sales representative for a gender-affirmation surgery clinic. “Any couple, regardless of their gender, can have a perfect family too.”

 

By Thai PBS World’s General Desk

File photo : Reuters

 

Full story: Thai PBS 2024-04-06

 

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[scottiejohn]

20 minutes ago, webfact said:

Maple already has a daughter from a previous relationship with a man. However, he can’t compare with her current partner, a 30-year-old transgender individual with whom she has now built a family.

 

My son, now 18, has never talked about her biological father,” Maple revealed. “She calls my current partner Pa [dad]”.

I am totally confused as to who is what sex at what time!

I assume and hope that the "My son," should read "My daughter"!

Since the kid is calling her mother's trans partner dad and it is a same sex marriage does that mean that the partner is an ex woman and now a man?

Edited April 6 by scottiejohn

[ikke1959]

I really hope that the samesex marriage will be implemented soon... It took already a very long time and more delays are not needed.. Legalization of a relationship is the most important thing, as many homophobic people will never understand. Marriage/partnership/or whatever you want to call it is needed in times of emergencies as permkission for surgery or cremations..A partner should be able to help a partner in live and death.  Unfortunately the religions have brainwashed that only man and woman can have a real relationship, sealed by a marriage, but in the 21st century we don't live in the Middle Ages anymore and other kind of partnerships must be possible, sealed with whatever you call it, but the rights for both. But without a legal relationship it is very difficult for samesex partners..

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

In the thread before Chomper! 🍻 

[RichardColeman]

5 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Legalization of a relationship is the most important thing, as many homophobic people will never understand. Marriage/partnership/or whatever you want to call it is needed in times of emergencies as permkission for surgery or cremations

Because I do not agree with gay marriage , does not make me homophobic. Civil partnerships should be respected as much as marriage in the 'emergencies' you describe. I see marriage as it is in the bible, man and woman, etc - though I am not a religious person or religiously brainwashed - it is my view. Both marriage and civil partnerships should be equal in the eyes of the law, society and people.  I have no issues with people being gay or being together. If any of my sons or grandchildren were gay they would always get my full support.  The problem is that people  tarnish all people as homophobic as they do not agree with gay marriage - that is the problem in society

[ikke1959]

10 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Because I do not agree with gay marriage , does not make me homophobic. Civil partnerships should be respected as much as marriage in the 'emergencies' you describe. I see marriage as it is in the bible, man and woman, etc - though I am not a religious person or religiously brainwashed - it is my view. Both marriage and civil partnerships should be equal in the eyes of the law, society and people.  I have no issues with people being gay or being together. If any of my sons or grandchildren were gay they would always get my full support.  The problem is that people  tarnish all people as homophobic as they do not agree with gay marriage - that is the problem in society

good to hear... however marriage between man and woman is a religious thing and civil partnerships should be equal.. but because for many centuries homosexuals have been disapproved by the same religion as that for a marriage, there are no other choices.. Marriage or Civil partnerships.. maybe time to scrap marriage and make every possible relation legal as a Civil Partnership... all problems in all religions are solved too

[Foxx]

19 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

I see marriage as it is in the bible, man and woman, etc

 

Not sure what the "etc" is doing in there.  Sheep? Horse? Goat?

 

And do you reject the view of marriage as it is in the Koran, man and four women?

In short, are you just homophobic, or also Islamophobic?

[MrPancake]

Equality in precariousness is the name of the game these days.

For once Thailand might be spearheading something 👍

Let's go !

[Yagoda]

18 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

 

 

And do you reject the view of marriage as it is in the Koran, man and four women?

I

Only if the women are of age.

[NativeBob]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

... Maple, who works as a sales representative for a gender-affirmation surgery clinic

Now everything is clear: she is living with a man who is "walking proof" of her clinic's achievements. Cool!
When she sells implants she can ask her BF/GF to show it. 
Good investment!

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, NativeBob said:

Now everything is clear: she is living with a man

But it is not clear!

"Now everything is clear: she is living with a man" who I assume is an ex female!

Is she living with an ex female who is now a male or an ex female who is now a man?

If it is a same sex marriage then as I understand it they must both have started off (in Thailand) as the same sex (ID Cards do not change when Thai's change sex), i.e. female or are they allowing swapping backward and forwards?

That combined with the son being  described as a daughter and her/him calling her partner dad gets me totally confused!

 

PS;  Does the new law allow for the issuance of new ID cards showing the new "assumed" sex" or must they go under surgical realignment to have their ID changed?

 

Edited April 6 by scottiejohn

[KhunLA]

8 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

I am totally confused as to who is what sex at what time!

I assume and hope that the "My son," should read "My daughter"!

Since the kid is calling her mother's trans partner dad and it is a same sex marriage does that mean that the partner is an ex woman and now a man?

Yea, they are gay/lesbians, and simple enough.  Although the 'mother' was, may still be bisexual.

 

Son reads like a son / male.  For me, trans doesn't exist in my vocabulary, as not transitioning into anything, as you can't add a penis, and get a woman pregnant, or man giving birth.

 

You're male or female.  Straight, gay or bisexual.  Those are your selections, any other choice is ridiculous and imaginary.

 

I didn't think it would squeeze by the Senate.  Apparently it has, or it will.  That's a good thing I guess, as same sex relationships, should know the pain of divorce.

 

Be careful what you wish for ... 

Edited April 6 by KhunLA

[Cory1848]

28 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

But it is not clear!

"Now everything is clear: she is living with a man" who I assume is an ex female!

Is she living with an ex female who is now a male or an ex female who is now a man?

If it is a same sex marriage then as I understand it they must both have started of (in Thailand) as the same sex, i.e. female or are they allowing swapping backward and forwards?

That combined with the son being  described as a daughter and her/him calling her partner dad gets me totally confused!

 

You’re thinking way too much about this. They’re simply human beings who, somehow, are able to provide each other with the emotional support that all humans crave on a daily basis, and they seek the same rights and status that other people enjoy, through legal/social arrangements like marriage and otherwise. If, as an outside observer, you get the “he’s” and “she’s” and “sons” and “daughters” wrong, I’m sure they won’t mind as long as you respect their humanity.

 

I see couples all the time whose sex or gender or sexual preference I have no clue about, nor, really, is it any of my business. If they seem happy together, then I’m happy.

[NativeBob]

34 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Does the new law allow for the issuance of new ID cards showing the new "assumed" sex" or must they go under surgical realignment to have their ID changed?

just a letter of attendance to the shrink

[scottiejohn]

2 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

You’re thinking way too much about this.

please re read the badly worded article: She describes her child alternatively as a daughter and a son and then is she living with and ex male or an ex female!?

it is not at all clear!

I am making no comment about intersex marriage but about the article's lack of clarity.

I have also commented/asked about how Thailand will identify sex change persons on their ID Cards!

[sirineou]

Quote

Thailand walks aisle to marriage equality: What it means for same-sex couples

Equal protection under the law. 

[scottiejohn]

Just now, NativeBob said:

just a letter of attendance to the shrink

What a sad post!

I suggest you either show your post as being your idea of humour or don't post it! (I assume it was meant as "humour(sic)"?

I asked a legitimate question which may be of interest to some on this forum and unhelpful responses like yours may be taken by some vulnerable people as factual!

 

[scottiejohn]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Be careful what you wish for

I have not wished for anything apart from clarification of what I find to be a very confusing OP article!

[Cory1848]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Because I do not agree with gay marriage , does not make me homophobic. Civil partnerships should be respected as much as marriage in the 'emergencies' you describe. I see marriage as it is in the bible, man and woman, etc - though I am not a religious person or religiously brainwashed - it is my view. Both marriage and civil partnerships should be equal in the eyes of the law, society and people.  I have no issues with people being gay or being together. If any of my sons or grandchildren were gay they would always get my full support.  The problem is that people  tarnish all people as homophobic as they do not agree with gay marriage - that is the problem in society

Based on what you write, I certainly wouldn’t call you “homophobic,” but I would try to convince you that same-sex couples should have full equality, and that means the ability to enter into the legal/social arrangement called marriage. Why should they have to settle for anything less? You say that you are not religious but insist on a biblical interpretation -- for starters, I would completely disregard anything the Bible or the Koran may have to say about marriage, as these texts were written by men 1,500-3,000 years ago and have dubious relevance in terms of how present-day societies should organize themselves.

[stoner]

everyone should have access to the same failing institutions. call it a civil union or whatever and leave everything else out of it. 

 

if 2 consenting adults want to get together so be it.

[Cory1848]

16 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

please re read the badly worded article: She describes her child alternatively as a daughter and a son and then is she living with and ex male or an ex female!?

it is not at all clear!

I am making no comment about intersex marriage but about the article's lack of clarity.

I have also commented/asked about how Thailand will identify sex change persons on their ID Cards!

OK, granted, it may be the wording of the article and not your analysis that’s at fault -- I didn’t focus on that part of the article, and the details are a bit convoluted. But the important thing is, at least as reported in the article, they seem happy together.

[NativeBob]

14 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

I suggest you either show your post as being your idea of humour or don't post it! (I assume it was meant as "humour(sic)"?

sorry, I didn't make it clear. Ok, longer version:

years ago anybody could get reassignment surgery, also almost any surgeon could perform such an operation, that led to confusing situations when M2F changed his mind for any reason - for ex. he was in stress and that was his revenge to his GF. Many other reasons - I really don't know, but ...

Since than only licensed surgeon were able to do so and only after they shown the letter from psychiatrist who would verify from scientific ground that yes, he/she heeds surgical reassignment. Without that letter he/she can't even _________ (whatever).
Hence I assumed that to change details in ID card there should be something more serious statement then "I feel like Madonna!" from some strange looking kid.

 

PS: I don't find this funny and/or humorous. Not at all, quite opposite: I met heart-broken parents while here in BKK.

Edited April 6 by NativeBob

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

I have not wished for anything apart from clarification of what I find to be a very confusing OP article!

You had it correct, 2 females, hence the same sex marriage.   The one can call herself what ever she wants, but she's a female.

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

The barbarians invaded the decadent Rome. History will soon repeat itself.

 

A worthy warrior will not marry his brother in arms.

Edited April 6 by Ben Zioner

[scottiejohn]

22 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Hence I assumed that to change details in ID card there should be something more serious statement then "I feel like Madonna!" from some strange looking kid.

  I thought you were taking the proverbial you know what!

In Thailand a Physical surgical realignment or surgical procedure to change your sex does not at the present time lead to a change of your sex on your Thai ID Card!

 If your first ID card says MR Somchai and you go through the full surgical process (after full  a psychiatrist assessment etc and ask for a new ID with your new female long hair etc it will still say "Mr Somchai"!

That was the point I was trying to make.  

I have no axe to grind on this subject. (see below)

My only complaint, as I first stated, was the abysmal reporting in the OP!

My knowledge on this subject re ID cards comes from a transgender member on  my Thai partner's side who has recently after many years of counselling etc undergone a full medical/surgical transition from male to female!

We now refer to her as "her" but still under the same Thai nickname!

[Conno]

2 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

But it is not clear!

"Now everything is clear: she is living with a man" who I assume is an ex female!

Is she living with an ex female who is now a male or an ex female who is now a man?

If it is a same sex marriage then as I understand it they must both have started off (in Thailand) as the same sex (ID Cards do not change when Thai's change sex), i.e. female or are they allowing swapping backward and forwards?

That combined with the son being  described as a daughter and her/him calling her partner dad gets me totally confused!

 

PS;  Does the new law allow for the issuance of new ID cards showing the new "assumed" sex" or must they go under surgical realignment to have their ID changed?

 

I'm not 100% certain but I believe the ID side of this topic is a completely different issue. If I recall a while back I can remember reading in the BK Post about something that was called

the 'Gender Recognition Bill' or something similar. Once again if I recall correctly, it was firmly defeated when it came to a vote. Basically it was deemed too devisive for reasons such as potential problems related to male and female prisons and hospital wards etc. i.e  Someone who identifies as female but still has their equipment intact and fully operational could potentially be a threat in an all female facility for example.

 

Unfortunately the problem can work both ways. Imagine a birth male who has had full reassignment surgery and now appears female in every outward respect, who then gets themselves into a spot of bother and ends up forced into a male prison? That can't be right either. A shared male only medical ward would be something similar. The only solution I can see to this dilemma would be completely separate transgender facilities, or those who have completed full physical transition surgery be the only ones permitted to change their gender on official documents.  

 

Edited April 6 by Conno

[Jingthing]

Visa implications for foreigners marrying Thais?

I assume Thailand would then recognize same sex marriages done abroad, yes?

[NativeBob]

1 hour ago, NativeBob said:

I suggest you either show your post as being your idea of humour or don't post it! (I assume it was meant as "humour(sic)"?

And now lets make it tragic:

I used to have a female friend (pretty looking young lady from Morocco) who run this business - plastic surgeries for "tourists" and made pretty good %. Since surgeons refused to do reassignments w/o letter from shrink her business sunk. Nope, that is not the tragic story. 

Here we go:

Doing hormonal therapy (consuming contraceptive pills in bulk) kids seriously damage their head - often turn hysterical, irrational, obnoxious and PMS-like mood swings. That leads to higher than average suicidal rate. 
Without good counseling their mind often goes banana. Kids in high school take shortcuts and visit questionable underground clinics, buy hormones and so.
So former khun Sombun visit local khet to "update" his/her ID is very confusing - it is still a man, that's why I think they must present some serious document justifying their request.

I don't think it is an easy task, not that easy as khun Sombun wants to change his name to Joseph or Taksin on ID card.

[Baht Simpson]

5 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

If any of my sons or grandchildren were gay they would always get my full support.  The problem is that people  tarnish all people as homophobic as they do not agree with gay marriage - that is the problem in society

Richard, how do you reconcile your full support of your family if they are gay with the fact that you would object to them getting married because they are gay? It's not really full support because you object to them having marriage equality.

 

Also, there were a number of LGBT+ people who didn't agree with marriage equality, although a lot of them have since come around. Disagreement with it doesn't make you homophobic, just anti-equality.

 

Homophobic is not a word I care for, preferring anti-LGBT+, which some people here clearly are. I don't think you are.

 

 

[Baht Simpson]

40 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Visa implications for foreigners marrying Thais?

I assume Thailand would then recognize same sex marriages done abroad, yes?

Good question. I'm assuming they would have to.