Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

You cannot remit just capital without gain, any remittance of CG is deemed to be a prorated percentage of both, until the total is depleted.

 

Firstly, you can remit capital/principal without gain. Sometimes stocks are sold at cost or at a loss, therefore there are no gains. 

 

Secondly, the prorated principle you describe ( that I don't believe is a proven fact but let's say it is for the purposes) is only in relation to a single stock or a single holding. Stock assets can be separated.  

 

If you, for example, hold $1M THB in 2 separate stocks, lets call them A & B. 

 

You sell A for a capital gain. You sell B for what you paid for it. 

You remit the proceeds of B into Thailand. 

 

Thailand cannot tax you on the unremitted gains on the sale of stock A. This isn't possible because the gains are unremitted, and to try and tax them would be taxing worldwide income. The TRD cannot look at your entire offshore portfolio, only at what is remitted to Thailand.  

[chiang mai]

16 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Firstly, you can remit capital/principal without gain. Sometimes stocks are sold at cost or at a loss, therefore there are no gains. 

 

Secondly, the prorated principle you describe ( that I don't believe is a proven fact but let's say it is for the purposes) is only in relation to a single stock or a single holding. Stock assets can be separated.  

 

If you, for example, hold $1M THB in 2 separate stocks, lets call them A & B. 

 

You sell A for a capital gain. You sell B for what you paid for it. 

You remit the proceeds of B into Thailand. 

 

Thailand cannot tax you on the unremitted gains on the sale of stock A. This isn't possible because the gains are unremitted, and to try and tax them would be taxing worldwide income. The TRD cannot look at your entire offshore portfolio, only at what is remitted to Thailand.  

I referred to remittance of a CG, that is the remittance of a capital gain. Yes of course you can remit capital or principle but if it derives from a CG, it cannot be separated from the gain.

 

I agree you cannot be taxed on unremitted gains....yet!

 

I know you don't like this company because you thing they are not correct in all their statements. I on the other hand do and think they are doing an above average job of relaying information to expats. Early in the video below, the position with regard to remittance of CG is made clear. Unless you have something to corroborate your version of CG principle remittances (without gain), I'm going with the video.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

40 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Firstly, you can remit capital/principal without gain. Sometimes stocks are sold at cost or at a loss, therefore there are no gains. 

 

Secondly, the prorated principle you describe ( that I don't believe is a proven fact but let's say it is for the purposes) is only in relation to a single stock or a single holding. Stock assets can be separated.  

 

If you, for example, hold $1M THB in 2 separate stocks, lets call them A & B. 

 

You sell A for a capital gain. You sell B for what you paid for it. 

You remit the proceeds of B into Thailand. 

 

Thailand cannot tax you on the unremitted gains on the sale of stock A. This isn't possible because the gains are unremitted, and to try and tax them would be taxing worldwide income. The TRD cannot look at your entire offshore portfolio, only at what is remitted to Thailand.  

Ah, I just realised, you and I have been around this loop before so let's not go there again. Previously I wrote in response to one of your posts, "I was just reading back over some of your earlier post of June where you were adamant that capital can be separated and remitted separately from gain, it tok pages before you finally went quiet on the subject". As I recall you previously  went quiet when evidence was produced to confirm that capital and gain cannot be separated but I'm not about to go looking for it and demonstrate it all over again. If that's what you want to think, please be my guest but do provide proof of what you believe so that others can be convinced also. There will be no further debate between us on this point.

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Firstly, you can remit capital/principal without gain. Sometimes stocks are sold at cost or at a loss, therefore there are no gains. 

 

Secondly, the prorated principle you describe ( that I don't believe is a proven fact but let's say it is for the purposes) is only in relation to a single stock or a single holding. Stock assets can be separated.  

 

If you, for example, hold $1M THB in 2 separate stocks, lets call them A & B. 

 

You sell A for a capital gain. You sell B for what you paid for it. 

You remit the proceeds of B into Thailand. 

 

Thailand cannot tax you on the unremitted gains on the sale of stock A. This isn't possible because the gains are unremitted, and to try and tax them would be taxing worldwide income. The TRD cannot look at your entire offshore portfolio, only at what is remitted to Thailand.  

 

My understanding on this (perhaps speculation is the absolute best wording) is that after the directions/orders of 161 and 162, the Thai RD will possibly consider any money brought into Thailand after 31-Dec-2023 may have been income - and an expat (if audited) will need to show to RD they had such money prior to 1-jan-2024 (keeping DTAs in mind which could change the assessment).

 

I speculate it would not matter how one buy's/sells/structures the money.  If one can not in an audit show one had the cash (and possibly equity equivalent value in a currency)  before 1-Jan-2024 then a remittance may be considered income, and the justification become less solid - and perhaps one may have problems in an audit (pure speculation by myself) if the remitted money can not be shown to exist in some form with a specific value on 31-Dec-2023  ... I should state also, that DTAs definitely come in to play here.   

 

Of course this tracking of the origin of remitted income before 1-Jan-2024 is clear if held in cash before1-Jan-2024 ..   and possibly obscured a bit for equity income ...  but nominally one transfers (via financial institutions) cash into the country.    If money is in a brokerage account, one can typically (at least I can) obtain a statement for 31-Dec-2023 giving the net value of one's equities as a currency figure (such as US$ or Canadian $ or Euros or some other currency).  I see that paper record as vital.

 

However my speculation is no different from anyone else's speculation.

[chiang mai]

18 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

My understanding on this (perhaps speculation is the absolute best wording) is that after the directions/orders of 161 and 162, the Thai RD will possibly consider any money brought into Thailand after 31-Dec-2023 may have been income - and an expat (if audited) will need to show to RD they had such money prior to 1-jan-2024 (keeping DTAs in mind which could change the assessment).

 

I speculate it would not matter how one buy's/sells/structures the money.  If one can not in an audit show one had the cash (and possibly equity equivalent value in a currency)  before 1-Jan-2024 then a remittance may be considered income, and the justification become less solid - and perhaps one may have problems in an audit (pure speculation by myself) if the remitted money can not be shown to exist in some form with a specific value on 31-Dec-2023  ... I should state also, that DTAs definitely come in to play here.   

 

Of course this tracking of the origin of remitted income before 1-Jan-2024 is clear if held in cash before1-Jan-2024 ..   and possibly obscured a bit for equity income ...  but nominally one transfers (via financial institutions) cash into the country.    If money is in a brokerage account, one can typically (at least I can) obtain a statement for 31-Dec-2023 giving the net value of one's equities as a currency figure (such as US$ or Canadian $ or Euros or some other currency).  I see that paper record as vital.

 

However my speculation is no different from anyone else's speculation.

 "the Thai RD will possibly consider any money brought into Thailand after 31-Dec-2023 may have been income".

 

The starting point in this exercise is what funds the expat choses to declare and as what, because those things will serve as the basis for any future audit. For example, I can remit one thousand pounds to Thailand and it can be classed as exempt income by virtue of Por162, rental income from my UK property or as investment income from my self invested pension. One of those options means the funds are exempt and no tax return need be filed. The other two options require some effort on my part to ensure the audit trail is in tact and that I can produce the necessary paperwork, if supporting evidence is required later. The boundaries and extent of any future audit is therefore within my control, I can only be audited on the things I have declared, not the things that I own and haven't declared.

 

So coming back to the quote at the outset, the TRD will only consider the things I have declared on my return, unless of course I have committed tax evasion and purposely not declared something that should have been declared.

[anrcaccount]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I referred to remittance of a CG, that is the remittance of a capital gain. Yes of course you can remit capital or principle but if it derives from a CG, it cannot be separated from the gain.

 

There's no such thing as a CG principle (correctly spelt principal) remittance ( without gain). Neither is such thing for income tax purposes as principal "derived from gain" , it doesn't exist. 

 

When a stock is sold, the proceeds consist of the cost ( principal/capital) plus or minus any gain or loss. If there is a gain, only the gain can be considered taxable income.

 

 

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

I agree you cannot be taxed on unremitted gains....yet!

 

I know you don't like this company because you thing they are not correct in all their statements. I on the other hand do and think they are doing an above average job of relaying information to expats. Early in the video below, the position with regard to remittance of CG is made clear. Unless you have something to corroborate your version of CG principle remittances (without gain), I'm going with the video.

 

This video states via slides that: 

 

1- "remittance of original capital" isn't taxable.
2- If it's s a trading platform (GIA) stock portfolio, each stock assets separate out. No the exchange but the individual asset. 

 

 

So, I stand by my statement below:

 

"Stock assets can be separated.  

 

If you, for example, hold $1M THB in 2 separate stocks, lets call them A & B. 

 

You sell A for a capital gain. You sell B for what you paid for it. 

You remit the proceeds of B into Thailand. 

 

Thailand cannot tax you on the unremitted gains on the sale of stock A. This isn't possible because the gains are unremitted, and to try and tax them would be taxing worldwide income. The TRD cannot look at your entire offshore portfolio, only at what is remitted to Thailand.  "

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

There's no such thing as a CG principle (correctly spelt principal) remittance ( without gain). Neither is such thing for income tax purposes as principal "derived from gain" , it doesn't exist. 

 

When a stock is sold, the proceeds consist of the cost ( principal/capital) plus or minus any gain or loss. If there is a gain, only the gain can be considered taxable income.

 

 

 

This video states via slides that: 

 

1- "remittance of original capital" isn't taxable.
2- If it's s a trading platform (GIA) stock portfolio, each stock assets separate out. No the exchange but the individual asset. 

 

 

So, I stand by my statement below:

 

"Stock assets can be separated.  

 

If you, for example, hold $1M THB in 2 separate stocks, lets call them A & B. 

 

You sell A for a capital gain. You sell B for what you paid for it. 

You remit the proceeds of B into Thailand. 

 

Thailand cannot tax you on the unremitted gains on the sale of stock A. This isn't possible because the gains are unremitted, and to try and tax them would be taxing worldwide income. The TRD cannot look at your entire offshore portfolio, only at what is remitted to Thailand.  "

As said, we're not going down this road again and I'm not about to play your word games either. All done here on this.