Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

If I get time later I will dig the actual paragraph.

 

Section 38 of the Revenue Code

 

The actual wording is

 

Quote

Income tax is an assessment tax. An assessment Official shall make assessment on tax under this chapter

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

What I take that to mean is

 

1. An Individual decides if he exceeds the thresholds for tax filing, and files accordingly

 

2. An member of the RD will then apply ( with an individuals input ) what TEDA's apply and how much, if any, tax is owed.

[oldcpu]

58 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

For those that remit income from overseas there really is only one consideration to make. Which is 

 

* Exempt from Thai taxation by way af a DTA, no need to file anything.

 

* Not exempt from Thai taxation by way of DTA, You need to file if it exceeds the 60k / 120k / 220k limits.

 

 

With respect ,...  I suspect ( albeit I am unsure) it is more complex than this. 

 

You stated "income" (and did not state "assessable income"). 

 

Apologies for my 'harping' on this, but lets consider what was noted in 161 and 162, where income prior to 1-Jan-2024 is not considered taxable in Thailand.  You do NOT include such in your list of "ONLY" considerations - where I believe that timing is a consideration.    I think (again I am uncertain) that income prior to 1-Jan-2024 may not be assessable income.

 

Further, there is the question for those holding an LTR visa.  Is their (LTR visa holders) foreign income from after 31-Dec-2023 considered assessable (but not taxable) income in Thailand.

 

Ok - one could argue I am pointing out exceptions - but never the less, I think care is needed when stating "really only one consideration to make".

 

Best wishes.

 

Edited November 12 by oldcpu

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

That would also be my understanding.

 

The issue has been muddied by the throwing about of ' Null Tax Returns '

 

The TRD do not recieve millions of " Null Returns ". They recieve tax returns that exceed the 60k / 120k / 220k limits and with the subsequent application of TEDA's no tax is payable.

 

For those that remit income from overseas there really is only one consideration to make. Which is 

 

* Exempt from Thai taxation by way af a DTA, no need to file anything.

 

* Not exempt from Thai taxation by way of DTA, You need to file if it exceeds the 60k / 120k / 220k limits.

 

There is also a paragraph in the Revenue Code, which states, words to the effect

 

" Allowances and deductions will be made by an Assessment Officer " which I take to mean a member of the Revenue Department where you file yor tax return.

 

If I get time later I will dig the actual paragraph.

Agreed.

 

A Null return in tax terms is defined as follows:

 

null return means a return which indicates that no transaction was made by the registered person during the tax period and no amount of tax is to be paid or refunded;

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

That would also be my understanding.

 

The issue has been muddied by the throwing about of ' Null Tax Returns '

 

The TRD do not recieve millions of " Null Returns ". They recieve tax returns that exceed the 60k / 120k / 220k limits and with the subsequent application of TEDA's no tax is payable.

 

For those that remit income from overseas there really is only one consideration to make. Which is 

 

* Exempt from Thai taxation by way af a DTA, no need to file anything.

 

* Not exempt from Thai taxation by way of DTA, You need to file if it exceeds the 60k / 120k / 220k limits.

 

There is also a paragraph in the Revenue Code, which states, words to the effect

 

" Allowances and deductions will be made by an Assessment Officer " which I take to mean a member of the Revenue Department where you file yor tax return.

 

If I get time later I will dig the actual paragraph.

Two considerations - also, exempt by virtue of Por 162.

 

 

[StraightTalk]

On 10/18/2024 at 2:09 PM, chiang mai said:

The update you mention certainly needs to be made, as I suspect do several others. Perhaps Mods/Admin can either, a) update the guide and repost, b) advise that ML will do so at some future date or c) if the guide has served its purpose and can now be unpinned?

Did the forum moderators ever respond to the points you raised in items (a), (b), or (c)?

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

With respect ,...  I suspect ( albeit I am unsure) it is more complex than this. 

 

You stated "income" (and did not state "assessable income"). 

 

I will rephrase

 

If you remitted income / money to Thailand in 2024 then

 

If the money remitted is exempt / not taxable in thailand due to a DTA then it is not ' Assessable income ' for tax purposes and their is no need to file anything  Keeping very good records would be a good idea )

 

If money remiited during 2024 that is not specifically  exempt /or  non taxable in Thailand under a DTA. If it exceeds the 60k / 120k / 220k limits then ( IMO ) it becomes ' Assessable income ' for people  who are tax residents of Thailand.

 

It is up to individuals to

 

* Read and understand DTA's

 

* To work out if that money remitted is ' Assessable Income 'and  exceeds the 60k / 120 / 220 thresholds and file accordingly.

 

I would suggest that people should err on the side of caution. If they are not sure, go sometime between Jan and March 2025 and attempt to file a tax return.

 

Let the RD tell you no need / go away / yes you need to file.

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Two considerations - also, exempt by virtue of Por 162.

 

 

 

Yes, I agree

 

But I am not getting into the minutia  that may / or may not apply to Individuals, and trying to stick broad brush.

 

And all I will would say on that specific point. Good luck arguing that point if your record keeping is not top notch.

[The Cyclist]

23 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Apologies for my 'harping' on this, but lets consider what was noted in 161 and 162, where income prior to 1-Jan-2024 is not considered taxable in Thailand.  You do NOT include such in your list of "ONLY" considerations - where I believe that timing is a consideration.    I think (again I am uncertain) that income prior to 1-Jan-2024 may not be assessable income

 

See post above

 

You are correct, there are grey areas. I am not going to try and fight a grey area with the RD when my paperwork / evidence is not top notch.

 

The issue would be proving it is ( whatever money / income ) from prior to Jan 2024.

 

If people want to go down that road, good luck to them.

 

Again, it does come down 2 considerations

 

* Is it considered " Assessable income "

 

*  Is it not considered " Assessable income "

 

That really is the bare bones of it. And only an individual can draw a conclusion from their own circumstances and act accordingly.

[chiang mai]

22 minutes ago, StraightTalk said:

Did the forum moderators ever respond to the points you raised in items (a), (b), or (c)?

Yes, I understand there is a discussion taking place with the author to potentially do just that.

[Yumthai]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Yes, I understand there is a discussion taking place with the author to potentially do just that.

The author last visited Aseannow.com on July 21st.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

The author last visited Aseannow.com on July 21st.

Gosh, that's confusing, do you suppose the chat's being had via email perhaps!

[Pi Tao]

Good morning, 

I'm little confused.

Do people who reside in Thailand less than 180 days,therefore non resident have to declare the amount imported in 2024, or not ?

Thank you for this clarification.

Edited November 12 by Pi Tao

[mudcat]

Both my wife and myself needed to close out our JPMorgan 'AutoInvest' accounts at the end of 2023 as JPMorgan was not continuing the product.  Everything went into our joint checking accounts at Chase and on to our individual brokerage accounts so we have a clear pre-2024 savings trail.

 

We will be each wiring the exact pre-2024 balances (>$25,000) to Thailand once our T-Bills matures in early December. On the wire form's 'Message to Recipient Line' we will add: "Pre-2024 Savings Remittance Exempt per TRD No. P.162/2023"

 

Once the wires are in and dealt with we will visit our local TRD provincial office with all of our documentation to close the loop we started when we visited them late last summer.

 

This will clear up some remittance and inheritance complications for my wife as we will consolidate  the balances in the two brokerage accounts into a single account under my name where she is the primary beneficiary.

[chiang mai]

50 minutes ago, Pi Tao said:

Good morning, 

I'm little confused.

Do people who reside in Thailand less than 180 days,therefore non resident have to declare the amount imported in 2024, or not ?

Thank you for this clarification.

No

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, mudcat said:

Both my wife and myself needed to close out our JPMorgan 'AutoInvest' accounts at the end of 2023 as JPMorgan was not continuing the product.  Everything went into our joint checking accounts at Chase and on to our individual brokerage accounts so we have a clear pre-2024 savings trail.

 

We will be each wiring the exact pre-2024 balances (>$25,000) to Thailand once our T-Bills matures in early December. On the wire form's 'Message to Recipient Line' we will add: "Pre-2024 Savings Remittance Exempt per TRD No. P.162/2023"

 

Once the wires are in and dealt with we will visit our local TRD provincial office with all of our documentation to close the loop we started when we visited them late last summer.

 

This will clear up some remittance and inheritance complications for my wife as we will consolidate  the balances in the two brokerage accounts into a single account under my name where she is the primary beneficiary.

I'm not sure TRD will be able to handle pre-emptive tax measures that explain why and how something was done that hasn't been reported. You appear to be emulating the steps you might take in the US, I wonder how appropriate that is here, 

[JimGant]

17 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I believe if we wish to see the 2024 calendar year tax forms in English language we need to wait a bit longer

And what difference do you expect to see? There will still be the lines for your remitted assessable income, divided up by category (pensions, rents, cap gains, etc). And lines for TEDA subtractions. Highly unlikely there will be lines for remitted NON assessable income -- to what realistic meaningful point? Possibly a line for foreign tax credits, which would be needed for remitted rental income (most DTAs), where, since Thailand is secondary taxation authority, they have to absorb a tax credit for the taxes paid to the primary taxation country, i.e., situs country. BUT, rental income is the only example I can come up with -- other remittances to Thailand fall in the categories of "exclusive or primary"  taxation authority. No credit lines needed for these.

 

Anyway, hard for me to see what changes might occur in any new, modified Thai tax forms. Anybody see something I don't? (I'm sure there's something.)

[Presnock]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

And what difference do you expect to see? There will still be the lines for your remitted assessable income, divided up by category (pensions, rents, cap gains, etc). And lines for TEDA subtractions. Highly unlikely there will be lines for remitted NON assessable income -- to what realistic meaningful point? Possibly a line for foreign tax credits, which would be needed for remitted rental income (most DTAs), where, since Thailand is secondary taxation authority, they have to absorb a tax credit for the taxes paid to the primary taxation country, i.e., situs country. BUT, rental income is the only example I can come up with -- other remittances to Thailand fall in the categories of "exclusive or primary"  taxation authority. No credit lines needed for these.

 

Anyway, hard for me to see what changes might occur in any new, modified Thai tax forms. Anybody see something I don't? (I'm sure there's something.)

IMHO I think that along with the "new" tax forms, there might be a requirement for tax-resident to obtain a Thai tax number.  They might too require each of us to file even if we have no assessable income remitted! BUt then again,  maybe no changes at all 'cause TIT.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

IMHO I think that along with the "new" tax forms, there might be a requirement for tax-resident to obtain a Thai tax number.  They might too require each of us to file even if we have no assessable income remitted! BUt then again,  maybe no changes at all 'cause TIT.

Or somebody from TRD might just say, "fooled, ya, we were only joking, you farangs are soooo gullible".

 

🙂

[mudcat]

29 minutes ago, mudcat said:

Both my wife and myself needed to close out our JPMorgan 'AutoInvest' accounts at the end of 2023 as JPMorgan was not continuing the product.  Everything went into our joint checking accounts at Chase and on to our individual brokerage accounts so we have a clear pre-2024 savings trail.

 

We will be each wiring the exact pre-2024 balances (>$25,000) to Thailand once our T-Bills matures in early December. On the wire form's 'Message to Recipient Line' we will add: "Pre-2024 Savings Remittance Exempt per TRD No. P.162/2023"

 

Once the wires are in and dealt with we will visit our local TRD provincial office with all of our documentation to close the loop we started when we visited them late last summer.

 

This will clear up some remittance and inheritance complications for my wife as we will consolidate  the balances in the two brokerage accounts into a single account under my name where she is the primary beneficiary.

We will visit with the same manager we spoke with and worked through our plan with last summer using the same statements and TRD documents in Thai and English.  

[Presnock]

12 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Or somebody from TRD might just say, "fooled, ya, we were only joking, you farangs are soooo gullible".

 

🙂

A lot depends on the life of the current govt and "progress" or lack there of  the future tax scheme , NIT worldwide etc - anyway you look at it, more and more unrealized costs (floods, drought, manufacturers closing, Chinese shops cheaper than Thai, etc so the govt just doesn't have any money and they will be looking for the easiest bucks - i.e. expats) .  Anyway, Doesn't affect me in any way and if it ever comes down to that, then the PI was my second choice for retirement.  Have a happy Loy Kratong!

[samtam]

17 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I do not yet see the 2024 calendar year tax forms in English language:  https://www.rd.go.th/english/27934.html

 

The 2024 calendar year tax forms are thou, available in the Thai language:  https://www.rd.go.th/65971.html

 

I believe if we wish to see the 2024 calendar year tax forms in English language we need to wait a bit longer.

 

Thank you for the English language tax form, which may or ay not be changed.

 

 

11 minutes ago, JimGant said:

And what difference do you expect to see? There will still be the lines for your remitted assessable income, divided up by category (pensions, rents, cap gains, etc). And lines for TEDA subtractions. Highly unlikely there will be lines for remitted NON assessable income -- to what realistic meaningful point? Possibly a line for foreign tax credits, which would be needed for remitted rental income (most DTAs), where, since Thailand is secondary taxation authority, they have to absorb a tax credit for the taxes paid to the primary taxation country, i.e., situs country. BUT, rental income is the only example I can come up with -- other remittances to Thailand fall in the categories of "exclusive or primary"  taxation authority. No credit lines needed for these.

 

Anyway, hard for me to see what changes might occur in any new, modified Thai tax forms. Anybody see something I don't? (I'm sure there's something.)

 

Assuming there are no changes to the tax form, I'm still not clear where one specifies monies brought in by ATM withdrawals or Credit Card spending using a foreign issued credit card.

 

Any ideas? Or, as I listened to the Tally YT

 

@ 12.23 on ATM withdrawals and @ 13.49 on use of Credit Cards, Thomas suggests that these are not in the purview of TRD.

 

I haven't been keeping up with the many comments, but has anything changed since this video was made?

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Thank you for the English language tax form, which may or ay not be changed.

 

 

 

Assuming there are no changes to the tax form, I'm still not clear where one specifies monies brought in by ATM withdrawals or Credit Card spending using a foreign issued credit card.

 

Any ideas? Or, as I listened to the Tally YT

 

@ 12.23 on ATM withdrawals and @ 13.49 on use of Credit Cards, Thomas suggests that these are not in the purview of TRD.

 

I haven't been keeping up with the many comments, but has anything changed since this video was made?

No, nothing has changed much, only peoples awareness and understanding of the issues has improved.

 

An ATM withdrawal from an overseas bank is no different from a bank TT to your personal account. Whether or not TRD is looking at/going after such transactions in another story completely. Whether or not individuals should declare them on a return is not only another story, it's another library! 

 

If the ATM transactions in question were sporadic and intermittent, with low value, I would forget them if I were you. If the ATM transactions were daily and high value, I would declare them in  heartbeat...assuming they were assessable funds. Somewhere in-between is you, you must decide where in-between and perhaps that will guide you.

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, samtam said:

Assuming there are no changes to the tax form, I'm still not clear where one specifies monies brought in by ATM withdrawals or Credit Card spending using a foreign issued credit card.

 

Any ideas?

 

My opinion only.

 

ATM withdrawals / CC Spending on foreign issued cards would only come into play if the RD were actively trying to nail you for tax avoidance / evasion.

 

Then they would start a deep dig.

 

The means to do so exists, not sure the will exists to deep dive into every foreigner in Thailand.

 

Very much a pays your money and takes your chances situation.

[samtam]

10 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

No, nothing has changed much, only peoples awareness and understanding of the issues has improved.

 

An ATM withdrawal from an overseas bank is no different from a bank TT to your personal account. Whether or not TRD is looking at/going after such transactions in another story completely. Whether or not individuals should declare them on a return is not only another story, it's another library! 

 

If the ATM transactions in question were sporadic and intermittent, with low value, I would forget them if I were you. If the ATM transactions were daily and high value, I would declare them in  heartbeat...assuming they were assessable funds. Somewhere in-between is you, you must decide where in-between and perhaps that will guide you.

 

Thanks for your comments. They are sporadic, but monthly, and of low value, (about THB30K) per month.

 

 

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

My opinion only.

 

ATM withdrawals / CC Spending on foreign issued cards would only come into play if the RD were actively trying to nail you for tax avoidance / evasion.

 

Then they would start a deep dig.

 

The means to do so exists, not sure the will exists to deep dive into every foreigner in Thailand.

 

Very much a pays your money and takes your chances situation.

 

I do not want to evade. My ATM & CC usage is within my allowances as a 65 year old pensioner; I am quite prepared to file a tax return, but despite trying to get a definitive answer, there does not seem to be a way of doing it with the existing, and likely similar, if not the same forms.

Sure, I can spend THB10-30K on seeking the advice of a tax consultant, but I have the impression they do not have a definitive answer either.

[JimGant]

19 hours ago, samtam said:

If I want to file a tax return, where do I write in my ATM withdrawals and foreign Credit Card payments on the form? (Is there a new tax form for the new tax filing.)

 

I know previously some suggested filing for ATM and CC monies was not required, but some said it was. What is the position, and if it's a "yes", where do I put it on the form?

Money sucked out of your bank account by an ATM transaction in Thailand -- is identical to a Wise transfer from this same bank account to Thailand. If that bank account had $50,000 in it on Dec 31, 2023 -- then that's the source of your ATM and Wise transfers -- until it runs out (FIFO applies here, as the non identity of specific monies allows FIFO, confirmed by a 2012 Bangkok Post article). After it runs out, however, you need to go to relativity -- if 78% of your post 2023 direct deposits to this home country bank account are govt pensions (which are non assessable); 18% private pensions; and 4% reinvested interest -- then any subsequent Wise or ATM remittance activity consists of 22% assessable income. And, this amount would go on the assessable foreign income line - or whatever it's called -- on the Thai tax return. Of course, you could just say you remitted from the "govt pension pile." Not too sure that would stand up under cross examination at TRD..... But, it might be an interesting conversation....

 

As for credit card purchases -- this is certainly not the same as Wise or ATM remittances. In fact, it's a non remittance, as it's a loan from your bank -- and the subsequent payback of that loan doesn't make it a remittance. Anyway, this point has been discussed ad nauseum; but until a more definitive guidance comes forward, I'd just say: Don't declare CC purchases, but remember the loan angle, in case you're called in for a chat by TRD (but why would they -- they'll have no knowledge of those purchases...). No, always use a grey area to your advantage.

 

 

[Presnock]

4 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Thanks for your comments. They are sporadic, but monthly, and of low value, (about THB30K) per month.

 

 

 

I do not want to evade. My ATM & CC usage is within my allowances as a 65 year old pensioner; I am quite prepared to file a tax return, but despite trying to get a definitive answer, there does not seem to be a way of doing it with the existing, and likely similar, if not the same forms.

Sure, I can spend THB10-30K on seeking the advice of a tax consultant, but I have the impression they do not have a definitive answer either.

Oh they have an answer, more than one.  They are floundering just like all the experts on this forum.  Until we get definitive information from the revenue dept, everyone is just guessing.  I have listened to many webinars done by the "experts" some say cc use and ATMs are not available to the Thai revenue dept while others say it is.  Good luck with whatever you decide.  Best to wait until we get some guidance.

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, samtam said:

Thanks for your comments. They are sporadic, but monthly, and of low value, (about THB30K) per month.

 

3 minutes ago, samtam said:

I do not want to evade. My ATM & CC usage is within my allowances as a 65 year old pensioner; I am quite prepared to file a tax return, but despite trying to get a definitive answer, there does not seem to be a way of doing it with the existing, and likely similar, if not the same forms.

 

Better to be safe than sorry

 

So, if it was me.

 

I would rock up at RD Office, complete with ATM withdrawal slips and ask the RD " Do I need to file  a tax return and how do I do it "

 

Let them guide you 

[samtam]

Just now, Presnock said:

Oh they have an answer, more than one.  They are floundering just like all the experts on this forum.  Until we get definitive information from the revenue dept, everyone is just guessing.  I have listened to many webinars done by the "experts" some say cc use and ATMs are not available to the Thai revenue dept while others say it is.  Good luck with whatever you decide.  Best to wait until we get some guidance.

 

Yes. Many answers from conlsultants eager to make the most of this confusion, you're right. None of them tried and tested, so all of them meaningless. I will wait. I have been waiting since the first vague, and then subsequent less vague announcement came from TRD. But vague and less vague don't add up to a hill of beans.

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Thanks for your comments. They are sporadic, but monthly, and of low value, (about THB30K) per month.

 

 

 

I do not want to evade. My ATM & CC usage is within my allowances as a 65 year old pensioner; I am quite prepared to file a tax return, but despite trying to get a definitive answer, there does not seem to be a way of doing it with the existing, and likely similar, if not the same forms.

Sure, I can spend THB10-30K on seeking the advice of a tax consultant, but I have the impression they do not have a definitive answer either.

If the 30k/month is within your TEDA range, I personally might not declare them....but that's just me.

[samtam]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 

Better to be safe than sorry

 

So, if it was me.

 

I would rock up at RD Office, complete with ATM withdrawal slips and ask the RD " Do I need to file  a tax return and how do I do it "

 

Let them guide you 

 

I've long thought that, and wondered why no one else has done that, or if they have, why they haven't, (to my knowledge) shared that experience on this magnum opus hopeless.