Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[Liquorice]

59 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

It is out of date so don't post it!

It's actually not out of date and still relevant until the end of this year. I am advised by my TRD that the new allowances/tax rates for 2024 (already published by Sherrings) will be available on their website the last week of this year, for filing in 2025.

[chiang mai]

5 hours ago, Liquorice said:

It's actually not out of date and still relevant until the end of this year. I am advised by my TRD that the new allowances/tax rates for 2024 (already published by Sherrings) will be available on their website the last week of this year, for filing in 2025.

Exactly, SJ doesn't seem to understand that.. 

[chiang mai]

6 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

It is out of date so don't post it!

 

@NoDisplayName @scottiejohn @Yumthai @flexomike

 

The information in that BMA link I posted is NOT out of date, if you file a tax return today, those are the allowances and deductions that are in effect, TODAY.

 

It was announced over a year ago that the TEDA levels would be increased, ONLY FOR THE 2024 tax year, filing for which begins on 1 January 2025, in three weeks time. That intention was translated into action about two weeks ago (see link below) when the temporary change was published in the Gazette......I have already posted that notice but you have either not understood what it is or you have ignored it.

 

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

Everyone should take note that the TEDA for the 2024 tax year are temporary, unless they are extended or permanently changed.

 

[chiang mai]

Now we've cleared that up, let me pre-empt the next question and explain the TEDA that will be in effect for the filings in first quarter of 2026, the 2025 tax year, which starts in two weeks time, assuming the current year changes are not extended or made permanent, 

 

Here are the main ones:

 

Personal Allowances will revert to 30k per person, down from the 2024 level of 60k per person

 

Dependent children allowance, down to 15k, from 30k

 

Expense deduction on income (including pensions) will revert to 40%, down from 50%.

 

I think perhaps the 2024 TEDA rates were an attempt to subsidise taxpayers in the  post covid economic recovery period and to help alleviate the pressures of high borrowings on taxpayers, dunno.

 

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

The information in that BMA link I posted is NOT out of date,

 

On 12/15/2024 at 11:54 AM, chiang mai said:

Yes it is out of date, apologies, please disregard 

Make your mind up!

 

[chiang mai]

Just now, scottiejohn said:

 

Make your mind up!

 

You're only trying to make mischief and confuse people.

 

The information IS out of date for the coming tax return filing season but it is not out of date as of today, for anyone wanting to file anything to do with prior year taxes. .

 

Now quit screwing around.

[ElwoodP]

Some bickering posts removed.

[JimGant]

16 hours ago, Liquorice said:

The best DTA I've come across is Ireland's, which includes all pension types as 'exempt'  from taxation.

Not true.

[Presnock]

25 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Not true.

From what I have read about pensions and taxes, bottom line is a "civil" pension is usually exempt but unless taxes are taken out by the paying government, I think the DTA's allow the Tax resident country to tax according to their tax charges.  BUT, I am not an expert by any means and this is my feelings based on things I have heard in webinars  (but usually they have other issues wrong at times too, plus what I have read about the Thai taxes (sorry no link as it was months ago probably).  But anyway, Reading some of the latest tax issues being talked about, they are also concerned about possibly losing many expats and the money they do spend here so some of them obviously realize that expats are not tourists!  In any case, I don't think that most of the expats will ever have to pay anything substantial if one has been paying taxes in their home country or has very low income.  From many recent local newspapers, it seems that Thailand really wants to be able to join the OECD group so that means that they have to fix the tax issues both corporate and individual, as well as the educational system locally.  

[jwest10]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

From what I have read about pensions and taxes, bottom line is a "civil" pension is usually exempt but unless taxes are taken out by the paying government, I think the DTA's allow the Tax resident country to tax according to their tax charges.  BUT, I am not an expert by any means and this is my feelings based on things I have heard in webinars  (but usually they have other issues wrong at times too, plus what I have read about the Thai taxes (sorry no link as it was months ago probably).  But anyway, Reading some of the latest tax issues being talked about, they are also concerned about possibly losing many expats and the money they do spend here so some of them obviously realize that expats are not tourists!  In any case, I don't think that most of the expats will ever have to pay anything substantial if one has been paying taxes in their home country or has very low income.  From many recent local newspapers, it seems that Thailand really wants to be able to join the OECD group so that means that they have to fix the tax issues both corporate and individual, as well as the educational system locally.  

Just IMHO between the Government, The Revenue Department and all the so-called  tax experts no one still knows what an official announcement will be made and have been told several times by the local Revenue Department that in my circumstances I do not need to file a tac form, which incidentally are not available and explained my circumstances and that my income is less than all the personal allowances and mentioned have a pink Id card and still stating no you do not need to file
So much  misinformation is coming out and do we wait or what? 

[Presnock]

I continue to wait, knowing that I will not owe anything to the Thai revenue dept unless the tax laws are changed so I am definitely good until at least 2026 since any new law would have to be enacted and published.  

[jwest10]

7 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I continue to wait, knowing that I will not owe anything to the Thai revenue dept unless the tax laws are changed so I am definitely good until at least 2026 since any new law would have to be enacted and published.  

My thoughts too and too many so-called experts and the one expats under Carl Turner  expats forum and temporarily forgot the full title.
Thanks and yes indeed thousands upon posts everywhere. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, jwest10 said:

Just IMHO between the Government, The Revenue Department and all the so-called  tax experts no one still knows what an official announcement will be made and have been told several times by the local Revenue Department that in my circumstances I do not need to file a tac form, which incidentally are not available and explained my circumstances and that my income is less than all the personal allowances and mentioned have a pink Id card and still stating no you do not need to file
So much  misinformation is coming out and do we wait or what? 

 

26 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

My thoughts too and too many so-called experts and the one expats under Carl Turner  expats forum and temporarily forgot the full title.
Thanks and yes indeed thousands upon posts everywhere. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR 

You keep repeating the term, "so called experts" as though to question the knowledge of tax consultancies and their ability to give you the answers that you want. You do understand, I hope, that everyone, from expert to complete ameteur, is completely reliant on and waiting for the TRD to release the new tax forms and fill in some knowledge gaps in everyone's understanding? Everyone has been in this same position for months although some people seem better able to contain their frustration than others and also understand that the things everyone is waiting for, have to become available, before filing season begins. 

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

From what I have read about pensions and taxes, bottom line is a "civil" pension is usually exempt but unless taxes are taken out by the paying government, I think the DTA's allow the Tax resident country to tax according to their tax charges.

Yes, for most OECD countries, civil/military pensions are taxable EXCLUSIVELY by the paying country. This includes Ireland, per their DTA with Thailand. This means, if your home (paying) country decides not to tax your civil/military pension -- you're home free from any taxes, as the EXCLUSIVE clause prevents Thailand from taxing this income, if remitted. This falls under the "exemption" phase of double tax prevention.

 

Other categories of income, found in DTAs, however, do allow both countries to tax same income, with one being designated primary taxation authority, while the other one is the secondary taxation authority -- but has to absorb a tax credit for the taxes paid to the primary country. Rental income is a good example in many OECD treaties. Here, the situs country of the rental income has primary taxation authority; but your country of residence has secondary taxation authority. Here, if your home (situs) country decides not to tax your rental income, then your country of residence can tax all of it, without having to absorb any tax credits (since there aren't any such credits from the primary country). Thus, in this example, you ain't home free 'from any taxes', because this is avoidance of double taxation by tax credit -- not by exemption. So, without exemption, you end up paying someone. No freebies here.

 

 

[ElwoodP]

Bickering posts removed.

[JimGant]

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

is completely reliant on and waiting for the TRD to release the new tax forms and fill in some knowledge gaps in everyone's understanding?

In your opinion, just what changes could we expect? Current tax forms only have income line items for assessable income. Would the new forms have line items for remitted non assessable income (per DTA, or per being pre 2024 income items) -- so that TRD could see what's not being taxed? I guess this could be some interesting information for the green eye shade folks -- but to me, it seems it would be an unnecessary clutter.

 

What else? A new edict accompanying the forms, saying: If bottom line says, "No taxes owed," no need to file? Highly doubtful, I guess -- but I can only hold out hope that TRD has some element of sanity.

 

Anyway, just curious on what changes, if any, you expect. For me, the current forms are fairly straightforward, and capture all that is needed for a relatively stress-free tax filing adventure. And, of course, if after you figure out on the back of an envelope, that you owe no taxes -- then just don't file. (NO, NO -- let's not go there again. The readers on this forum have more than enough input to decide their individual action.)

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

In your opinion, just what changes could we expect? Current tax forms only have income line items for assessable income. Would the new forms have line items for remitted non assessable income (per DTA, or per being pre 2024 income items) -- so that TRD could see what's not being taxed? I guess this could be some interesting information for the green eye shade folks -- but to me, it seems it would be an unnecessary clutter.

 

What else? A new edict accompanying the forms, saying: If bottom line says, "No taxes owed," no need to file? Highly doubtful, I guess -- but I can only hold out hope that TRD has some element of sanity.

 

Anyway, just curious on what changes, if any, you expect. For me, the current forms are fairly straightforward, and capture all that is needed for a relatively stress-free tax filing adventure. And, of course, if after you figure out on the back of an envelope, that you owe no taxes -- then just don't file. (NO, NO -- let's not go there again. The readers on this forum have more than enough input to decide their individual action.)

I have no expectations as to what we might see, I'm going solely by that old mantra that says the new tax forms and instructions will be available by year end. Whatever we get, and there has to be something, otherwise nobody can file, I'll happily live with. I'm guessing when I say there might be some instructions that shed light on the many open avenues discovered so far in these threads this year, if not, oh well.

[JimGant]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Whatever we get, and there has to be something, otherwise nobody can file,

Why? What's wrong with the old/current tax forms? What new info is imperative, otherwise "nobody can file?"

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why? What's wrong with the old/current tax forms? What new info is imperative, otherwise "nobody can file?"

I don't think you can use a 2023 tax form to file 2024 taxes, for one thing it's a different tax year. And since they are going to release a new tax form, presumably they will update it in some way to include information relative to the many things we've discussed this year, non-assessable income, DTA exempt income etc. Or maybe not, who knows, Plus also, the TEDA are different this year to last so that needs to be confirmed in the instructions or on the form..

[Presnock]

Actually,  I think the new forms won't really change that much this year but since they long to join OECD without any baggage, I think they will eventually try for the worldwide income tax in trying to grab every baht that they can as they will need it.   But reading  the various news this week shows me that there is still a lot of dissension amongst the parliament folks about exaxtly what they want to do and that is why we get such little "news" about the tax schemes.    Pichai sure doesn't know what to do as  he keeps stepping on other toes it seems and can't get others to support him.  FUnny that he is even in that position.  My opinion only of course as I have no real idea of what could transpire today, tomorrow or next week.

[JimGant]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Plus also, the TEDA are different this year to last so that needs to be confirmed in the instructions or on the form..

Ok, good point. My interest is, why would -- or could -- they even address DTA items, or other non assessable incomes -- since there is no "one DTA fits all." But, yeah, sure there will be some changes -- "happy" will be changed to "glad." I just can't imagine any really substantive changes being made. But, we'll see.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

Ok, good point. My interest is, why would -- or could -- they even address DTA items, or other non assessable incomes -- since there is no "one DTA fits all." But, yeah, sure there will be some changes -- "happy" will be changed to "glad." I just can't imagine any really substantive changes being made. But, we'll see.

My understanding has been for the past few months that the new forms and instructions are the "big event" we're all waiting for, the time when questions finally get answered, although possibly not even close to all of them. Stay tuned I guess.

[Captain Flack]

A flame post has been removed.

 

@jwest10 if you don’t want your posts removed, just discuss the topic, without making unnecessary personal attacks.

[Yumthai]

29 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Plus also, the TEDA are different this year to last

Tax allowances are the same for 2023 and 2024 income.

https://www.nishimura.com/en/knowledge/publications/tax-allowances-for-2023-and-2024

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

Tax allowances are the same for 2023 and 2024 income.

https://www.nishimura.com/en/knowledge/publications/tax-allowances-for-2023-and-2024

 

I don't understand that, the sherrings link posted earlier said the 2024 TEDA was gazetted on 3 December this year. The BMA article appears to be dated 2022 from what others have said. Have the personal allowances been at 60k each for the past year also and is it other TEDA that were gazetted earlier in December? Sherrings says income expense is 50% for 2024, the BMA says it's 40%, presumably for 2022 but also for 2023??? Confusing.

[Yumthai]

4 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I don't understand that, the sherrings link posted earlier said the 2024 TEDA was gazetted on 3 December this year. The BMA article appears to be dated 2022 from what others have said. Have the personal allowances been at 60k each for the past year also and is it other TEDA that were gazetted earlier in December? Sherrings says income expense is 50% for 2024, the BMA says it's 40%, presumably for 2022 but also for 2023??? Confusing.

You are indeed confused.

 

Here's the Personal Income Tax Return form for 2023 Tax year:

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/220367PIT90.pdf

Page 2:  Less expense (50 percent but not exceeding 100,000 baht)

Page 5: Taxpayer (60,000 baht or 120,000 baht, as the case may be)
              Spouse (60,000 baht if filing jointly or has no income)
              Child 30,000 baht/person for ........... person(s)

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I don't understand that, the sherrings link posted earlier said the 2024 TEDA was gazetted on 3 December this year. The BMA article appears to be dated 2022 from what others have said. Have the personal allowances been at 60k each for the past year also and is it other TEDA that were gazetted earlier in December? Sherrings says income expense is 50% for 2024, the BMA says it's 40%, presumably for 2022 but also for 2023??? Confusing.

 

It is all as clear as mud.

 

Sherrings says this

 

Quote

For care of self (taxpayer)		60,000 Baht
For care of a dependent spouse		60,000 Baht

 

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

The Revenue Dept website says 

 

Quote

Single taxpayer	30,000 baht for the taxpayer
Undivided estate	30,000 baht for the taxpayer’s spouse

 

Obviously the Sherrings figures will be more beneficial for those that need to file.

 

Perhaps the Revenue Dept website will get updated when the stick on the tax forms for 2024.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

You are indeed confused.

 

Here's the Personal Income Tax Return form for 2023 Tax year:

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/220367PIT90.pdf

Page 2:  Less expense (50 percent but not exceeding 100,000 baht)

Page 5: Taxpayer (60,000 baht or 120,000 baht, as the case may be)
              Spouse (60,000 baht if filing jointly or has no income)
              Child 30,000 baht/person for ........... person(s)

As Cyclist points out above, the TRD site shows different numbers so tell me again who is confused?

 

And why did Sherrings announce the gazette of TEDA earlier this month, do you know exactly what was changed or are you guessing?.

[chiang mai]

There is evidence that TEDA, specifically the personal allowances and income expense percentages for 2020 through 2023 was different from 2023, 30k vs 60k and 40% vs 50%. What was gazetted earlier this month appears to be an extension of the 2023 rates, for another year....that's the way I understand things, unless anyone can prove things differently.  

[Captain Flack]

Post containing public comments on moderation have been removed.

 

Rule 13. You will not publicly comment on moderation in an open  forum. You will not comment on actions taken by individual moderators or on specific or general policies and issues. You will not post a negative emoticon in response to a public notice made by a moderator. You may send a private message to a moderator to discuss individual actions or you can  email support (at) aseannow.com to discuss moderation policy and account suspensions.You will not block  communication from moderators or Admin.