Hamas admits one-third of its data on Gazan deaths is ‘incomplete’

[Social Media]

The acknowledgment raises anew questions about the veracity of the terrorist group's claims about the war.

 

(April 15, 2024) The Hamas-run Ministry of Health in Gaza says it has “incomplete data” for one-third of the Palestinian fatalities it claims to have documented from its current war against Israel. The acknowledgment in a report on the social networking app Telegram last week raises anew questions about the veracity of its casualty count from the war.

 

The April 6 report said that Hamas had “incomplete data” for 11,371 of the 33,091 recorded Palestinian deaths it claims, and is missing one or more key data points including identity number, full name, date of birth, or date of death. In a report three days earlier, the ministry admitted the “incompleteness” of 12,263 records. It was not immediately clear why, after three more days, that figure dropped to 11,371.

 

Before its admissions of incomplete data, the ministry asserted that the information in more than 15,000 fatality records had stemmed from “reliable media sources.” However, the ministry never identified the sources in question and Gaza has no independent media.

 

David Adesnik, director of research at the Washington-based Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD), said, “The sudden shifts in the ministry’s reporting methods suggest it is scrambling to prevent exposure of its shoddy work.

 

“For months, U.S. media have taken for granted that the ministry’s top-line figure for casualties was reliable enough to include in daily updates on the war. Now we’re seeing that a third or more of the ministry’s data may be incomplete at best—and fictional at worst,” he added.

 

Joe Truzman, a senior research analyst at FDD, said, “It is important to recognize that Hamas is deeply invested in shaping the narrative that emerges from Gaza, particularly regarding the number of casualties in the war. “Moreover, this control of data extends beyond the statistics provided by the Hamas-controlled Health Ministry, as there is also a deliberate effort to downplay the number of terrorists who have been killed by Israel in the war,” he added.

 

The Israel Defense Forces has said that at least 13,000 of the Palestinians killed in the war against Hamas in Gaza, and another 1,000 slain inside Israel during the Oct. 7 invasion, were terrorists. Last month, a statistics expert asserted the Hamas claim that 70% of the casualties of the war were women and children was “statistically impossible” and “not reliable at all.”

 

16.04.24

Source

 

[Bkk Brian]

A few more articles on these made up figures:

 

Hamas-Run Gaza Health Ministry Admits to Flaws in Casualty Data

“The sudden shifts in the ministry’s reporting methods suggest it is scrambling to prevent exposure of its shoddy work. For months, U.S. media have taken for granted that the ministry’s top-line figure for casualties was reliable enough to include in daily updates on the war. Even President Biden has cited its numbers. Now we’re seeing that a third or more of the ministry’s data may be incomplete at best — and fictional at worst.” — David Adesnik, Senior Fellow and Director of Research

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/

 

Israel-Hamas war: Gaza's morgue network has effectively collapsed - how are they recording their dead?

Of the 21,703 identified fatalities whose details have been shared by the Hamas-run health ministry, 13,207 were women, children or elderly (61%).

Until recently, however, the ministry had been reporting a figure of 72%.

Mr al Wahaidi told Sky News that this was a "media estimate". He was not able to explain the basis for this estimate or who had produced it.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-health-system-collapse-in-gaza-leaves-authorities-struggling-to-count-the-dead-13107279

 

Hamas’s Casualty Numbers Games
As Israeli troops batter Hamas and drive its surviving forces to the southern edge of the Gaza Strip, the Gaza Health Ministry has etched in the public mind a statistic that casts Israel’s war of self-defense as a bloodbath: 70% of the dead in Gaza are women and children, the Hamas-run ministry says, and more than 30,000 lives in total have been lost. Is it true?

Yet in a series of lengthy reports, the ministry admits that the figures the media treat as authoritative rely in part on reporting from . . . the media. The ministry says its casualty counts include two types of fatalities: those recorded by medical facilities and those reported by “reliable media sources.” In its March 31 report, the ministry attributes 15,070 of the dead, or 45.9%, to news reports. From which outlets? The ministry never says.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hamass-numbers-games-civilian-death-counts-casualty-data-b99140eb

https://archive.ph/JYQFg

 

Hamas document reveals it hides casualties, blames failed rocket launches on Israel - IDF

“These documents clearly show that terrorist organizations in Gaza are cooperating to hide the extent of the destruction and killing caused by failed launches that fall on the residents, while making an effort to protect Hamas terrorists, overlooking the danger to civilians,” said Adraee in his statement.

Lastly, Hamas reports were exposed featuring names of Gazan casualties as a result of failed launches, which were then recycled by Hamas in their outward reports of casualties, alleging they stemmed from Israeli airstrikes. In other words, Hamas counted casualties from PIJ failed rockets as casualties from Israeli attacks, proving yet again the lack of accuracy of their propaganda reporting.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-794610

[Bkk Brian]

Another one for the growing list:

 

Hamas health ministry can’t find 10,000 names of those it claims died

(May 5, 2024 / JNS)

The Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Health can’t provide names of more than 10,000 of the 34,000 it says have died during the war with Israel, the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies reports.

“While the Health Ministry conceded earlier this month that it has ‘incomplete data’ for nearly one-third of the deceased, this is the first admission that it lacks an essential data point necessary to establish these deaths have even taken place,” the Washington-based think tank noted on May 2.

https://www.jns.org/hamas-health-ministry-cant-find-10000-names-of-those-it-claims-died/

[impulse]

2/3 of a real big number is still a big number.

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

2/3 of a real big number is still a big number.

 

Its gets less as you take away another 13,000 terrorists killed

[Yellowtail]

"Before its admissions of incomplete data, the ministry asserted that the information in more than 15,000 fatality records had stemmed from “reliable media sources.” However, the ministry never identified the sources in question and Gaza has no independent media."

 

So, the media got their numbers from Hamas, and Hamas was getting their numbers from the media, hmmmmm, one had washes the other?

[Social Media]

Topic reminder: Hamas admits one-third of its data on Gazan deaths is ‘incomplete’

[torturedsole]

Any stats on the hostages?

[placeholder]

On 4/17/2024 at 8:25 PM, Bkk Brian said:

A few more articles on these made up figures:

 

Hamas-Run Gaza Health Ministry Admits to Flaws in Casualty Data

“The sudden shifts in the ministry’s reporting methods suggest it is scrambling to prevent exposure of its shoddy work. For months, U.S. media have taken for granted that the ministry’s top-line figure for casualties was reliable enough to include in daily updates on the war. Even President Biden has cited its numbers. Now we’re seeing that a third or more of the ministry’s data may be incomplete at best — and fictional at worst.” — David Adesnik, Senior Fellow and Director of Research

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/

 

Israel-Hamas war: Gaza's morgue network has effectively collapsed - how are they recording their dead?

Of the 21,703 identified fatalities whose details have been shared by the Hamas-run health ministry, 13,207 were women, children or elderly (61%).

Until recently, however, the ministry had been reporting a figure of 72%.

Mr al Wahaidi told Sky News that this was a "media estimate". He was not able to explain the basis for this estimate or who had produced it.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-health-system-collapse-in-gaza-leaves-authorities-struggling-to-count-the-dead-13107279

 

Hamas’s Casualty Numbers Games
As Israeli troops batter Hamas and drive its surviving forces to the southern edge of the Gaza Strip, the Gaza Health Ministry has etched in the public mind a statistic that casts Israel’s war of self-defense as a bloodbath: 70% of the dead in Gaza are women and children, the Hamas-run ministry says, and more than 30,000 lives in total have been lost. Is it true?

Yet in a series of lengthy reports, the ministry admits that the figures the media treat as authoritative rely in part on reporting from . . . the media. The ministry says its casualty counts include two types of fatalities: those recorded by medical facilities and those reported by “reliable media sources.” In its March 31 report, the ministry attributes 15,070 of the dead, or 45.9%, to news reports. From which outlets? The ministry never says.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hamass-numbers-games-civilian-death-counts-casualty-data-b99140eb

https://archive.ph/JYQFg

 

Hamas document reveals it hides casualties, blames failed rocket launches on Israel - IDF

“These documents clearly show that terrorist organizations in Gaza are cooperating to hide the extent of the destruction and killing caused by failed launches that fall on the residents, while making an effort to protect Hamas terrorists, overlooking the danger to civilians,” said Adraee in his statement.

Lastly, Hamas reports were exposed featuring names of Gazan casualties as a result of failed launches, which were then recycled by Hamas in their outward reports of casualties, alleging they stemmed from Israeli airstrikes. In other words, Hamas counted casualties from PIJ failed rockets as casualties from Israeli attacks, proving yet again the lack of accuracy of their propaganda reporting.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-794610

 

On 5/6/2024 at 11:48 AM, Bkk Brian said:

Another one for the growing list:

 

Hamas health ministry can’t find 10,000 names of those it claims died

(May 5, 2024 / JNS)

The Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Health can’t provide names of more than 10,000 of the 34,000 it says have died during the war with Israel, the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies reports.

“While the Health Ministry conceded earlier this month that it has ‘incomplete data’ for nearly one-third of the deceased, this is the first admission that it lacks an essential data point necessary to establish these deaths have even taken place,” the Washington-based think tank noted on May 2.

https://www.jns.org/hamas-health-ministry-cant-find-10000-names-of-those-it-claims-died/

What these propagandists failed to note is the reason is that the health ministry now has to estimate is that the hospitals have been destroyed and their excavation teams no longer exist. Also, you may want to note that thousands of corpses are believed to be buried in the rubble. Below is taken from a piece of honest journalism:

 

In Gaza, Authorities Lose Count of the Dead
The collapse of hospitals and rescue services means many now die in obscurity

“At the beginning we had systems, we had hospitals,” said Medhat Abbas, a spokesman for the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza. “The Civil Defense teams were able to get people who were stuck under the rubble. Then the whole system collapsed.”

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/in-gaza-authorities-lose-count-of-the-dead-779ff694

 

[Bkk Brian]

34 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

What these propagandists failed to note is the reason is that the health ministry now has to estimate is that the hospitals have been destroyed and their excavation teams no longer exist. Also, you may want to note that thousands of corpses are believed to be buried in the rubble. Below is taken from a piece of honest journalism:

 

In Gaza, Authorities Lose Count of the Dead
The collapse of hospitals and rescue services means many now die in obscurity

“At the beginning we had systems, we had hospitals,” said Medhat Abbas, a spokesman for the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza. “The Civil Defense teams were able to get people who were stuck under the rubble. Then the whole system collapsed.”

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/in-gaza-authorities-lose-count-of-the-dead-779ff694

 

Propagandists? So when "Mr al Wahaidi (Hamas) told Sky News that this was a "media estimate". He was not able to explain the basis for this estimate or who had produced it." that was just propaganda?

 

Or when Gaza Health Authority (Hamas) told the WSJ "The ministry says its casualty counts include two types of fatalities: those recorded by medical facilities and those reported by “reliable media sources.” In its March 31 report, the ministry attributes 15,070 of the dead, or 45.9%, to news reports. From which outlets?" that was just propaganda?

 

I could go on but you've obviously not read any of the links I supplied or whether your article is also missing information from them.............oh dear

 

 

[vinny41]

Israel also has a problem with numbers

Meanwhile, Hyman said at least 14,000 Hamas fighters have been “taken out” – and then refused to say exactly how many civilians Israel believes have been killed, just blaming the “fog of war”.

Morgan said: “You have exact numbers for Hamas terrorists you’ve killed.

“Why wouldn’t you know how many civilians you’ve killed?”

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/piers-morgan-slams-israeli-spokesman-over-civilian-deaths-in-gaza_uk_663b52a8e4b0a6d4a247133b

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Israel also has a problem with numbers

Meanwhile, Hyman said at least 14,000 Hamas fighters have been “taken out” – and then refused to say exactly how many civilians Israel believes have been killed, just blaming the “fog of war”.

Morgan said: “You have exact numbers for Hamas terrorists you’ve killed.

“Why wouldn’t you know how many civilians you’ve killed?”

 

    They target terrorists and thus know when they have killed a terrorist , but they don't know how many civilians died whilst killing a terrorists 

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    They target terrorists and thus know when they have killed a terrorist , but they don't know how many civilians died whilst killing a terrorists 

So the IDF  2 to 1  ratio is pure fabrication since Israel doesn't know how many civilians they have killed

[Nick Carter icp]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

So the IDF  2 to 1  ratio is pure fabrication since Israel doesn't know how many civilians they have killed

 

   Have you turned into Piers Morgan interviewing Avi Hymen ?

What did Avi reply to that question from Piers?

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Have you turned into Piers Morgan interviewing Avi Hymen ?

What did Avi reply to that question from Piers?

“You’ve NO IDEA How Many You’ve Killed?” Piers Morgan vs Avi Hyman

You can see Avi Hymen squirming when the questions of number of civilians deaths killed by Israel 

As stated IDF  2 to 1  ratio is pure fabrication since Israel doesn't know how many civilians they have killed

[Nick Carter icp]

31 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

“You’ve NO IDEA How Many You’ve Killed?” Piers Morgan vs Avi Hyman

You can see Avi Hymen squirming when the questions of number of civilians deaths killed by Israel 

As stated IDF  2 to 1  ratio is pure fabrication since Israel doesn't know how many civilians they have killed

 

   Who is this Avi Hymen guy ?

[vinny41]

47 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Have you turned into Piers Morgan interviewing Avi Hymen ?

What did Avi reply to that question from Piers?

 

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Who is this Avi Hymen guy ?

As you can see you posted "Have you turned into Piers Morgan interviewing Avi Hymen ?"

and now you asking Who is this Avi Hymen guy ?

[Nick Carter icp]

16 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

As you can see you posted "Have you turned into Piers Morgan interviewing Avi Hymen ?"

and now you asking Who is this Avi Hymen guy ?

 

   Yes I do know what I posted , , I do remember that I posted 20 minutes ago .

Why are you telling me what I posted 20 minutes ago ?

Is there any point to that ?

[vinny41]

28 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Who is this Avi Hymen guy ?

 

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Yes I do know what I posted , , I do remember that I posted 20 minutes ago .

Why are you telling me what I posted 20 minutes ago ?

Is there any point to that ?

It was you that posted  Who is this Avi Hymen guy ? why are you asking me i happy to admit to my spelling error are you happy to admit to your spelling mistake

 Avi Hyman is the correct spelling the incorrect spelling of his name which both you and i posted

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

 

It was you that posted  Who is this Avi Hymen guy ? why are you asking me i happy to admit to my spelling error are you happy to admit to your spelling mistake

 Avi Hyman is the correct spelling the incorrect spelling of his name which both you and i posted

 

   I wasn't asking you how to spell his name correctly, I was asking you who he is , what his job is .

Is he likely to know exactly how many people have died , would he be privy to that information is what I meant , not how to spell his name !!!

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   I wasn't asking you how to spell his name correctly, I was asking you who he is , what his job is .

Is he likely to know exactly how many people have died , would he be privy to that information is what I meant , not how to spell his name !!!

Avi Hyman Office of the Prime Minister of Israel

Israeli Government Spokesman

https://twitter.com/AviHyman

 

Avi Hyman, a spokesperson for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office,

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

 

As stated IDF  2 to 1  ratio is pure fabrication since Israel doesn't know how many civilians they have killed

 

   The IDF made that claim six months ago and it may have been true then, whether its still true today isn't known 

    The 2 to 1 ration was stated back in December . They haven't given current figures , so those ungiven figures cannot be a fabrication 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/12/06/news/idf-says-2-civilians-killed-for-every-1-hamas-fighter/

 

IDF says 2 civilians killed for every Hamas terrorist

 

Published Dec. 6, 2023,

 

[vinny41]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The IDF made that claim six months ago and it may have been true then, whether its still true today isn't known 

    The 2 to 1 ration was stated back in December . They haven't given current figures , so those ungiven figures cannot be a fabrication 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/12/06/news/idf-says-2-civilians-killed-for-every-1-hamas-fighter/

 

IDF says 2 civilians killed for every Hamas terrorist

 

Published Dec. 6, 2023,

 

The 2 to 1 ratio is clearly  a fabrication if the Israeli Government Spokesman is unable to answer the question of number of civilians deaths killed by Israel 

As you stated IDF says 2 civilians killed for every Hamas terrorist

Israel has stated that approx 14,000  Hamas terrorists have been killed that would mean that the total number of killed would be 42,000 including 28,000  civilians which is a higher number than what the Gaza health authorities recently stated 34,844 for all deaths so it would appear that the  Gaza health authorities is under counting the total number of deaths compared to the IDF 2 to 1 ratio

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

The 2 to 1 ratio is clearly  a fabrication if the Israeli Government Spokesman is unable to answer the question of number of civilians deaths killed by Israel 

As you stated IDF says 2 civilians killed for every Hamas terrorist

Israel has stated that approx 14,000  Hamas terrorists have been killed that would mean that the total number of killed would be 42,000 including 28,000  civilians which is a higher number than what the Gaza health authorities recently stated 34,844 for all deaths so it would appear that the  Gaza health authorities is under counting the total number of deaths compared to the IDF 2 to 1 ratio

 

 

  The 2 -1 figure is the figure from six months ago 

That figure may have changed in the last six months . 

[Bkk Brian]

Apparently some people still believe the figures, even the UN has now conceded. 

 

UN Halves Its Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza

The United Nations Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) revised its child fatality figure from the Gaza war sharply downward, reporting more than 14,500 deaths on May 6 but then 7,797 on May 8. OCHA also revised downward its figure for women fatalities from more than 9,500 deaths to 4,959 deaths. The Jerusalem Post first reported the changes on May 11.

The UN attributed its original, higher figures to the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO) in Gaza, whose figures OCHA has cited continually for the past two months. The UN gave no source for the lower figures in its May 8 update, but the figures precisely match those in a May 2 report from a different Hamas-controlled organization, the Gaza Ministry of Health. “This change may signal that the UN has finally recognized the lack of evidence behind Hamas’s original claims that more than 14,000 children and 9,000 women have been killed in Gaza.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Apparently some people still believe the figures, even the UN has now conceded. 

 

UN Halves Its Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza

The United Nations Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) revised its child fatality figure from the Gaza war sharply downward, reporting more than 14,500 deaths on May 6 but then 7,797 on May 8. OCHA also revised downward its figure for women fatalities from more than 9,500 deaths to 4,959 deaths. The Jerusalem Post first reported the changes on May 11.

The UN attributed its original, higher figures to the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO) in Gaza, whose figures OCHA has cited continually for the past two months. The UN gave no source for the lower figures in its May 8 update, but the figures precisely match those in a May 2 report from a different Hamas-controlled organization, the Gaza Ministry of Health. “This change may signal that the UN has finally recognized the lack of evidence behind Hamas’s original claims that more than 14,000 children and 9,000 women have been killed in Gaza.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/

The Rothschilds probably got to them. 

Edited May 12 by Yellowtail