U.S. D list towns & cities revisited as low budget repatriation options (rent under 1000)

[tuktuktuk]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is an interesting option about a place I've never heard of!

As usual with "D list" options there are strong pros and cons.

As far as I can tell a strong con for me would be the restaurant situation but as mentioned before I wouldn't expect have much of an eating out budget anywhere in the U.S. as prices for eating out have become absurd there. I did some research and it's not as bad as this video says, but it's pretty bad even compared to a city like Fort Wayne.

I do like a place being warm weather over cold weather though so moving anywhere in the midwest (Indiana, Ohio, Pittsburgh which I like but may as well be the midwest) is always going to have the cold winter problem.

 

 

 

Funny, I thought about suggesting Florence when I first read your post.  I figured Alabama had such a stigma that nobody would have considered it.  Florence/Muscle Shoals isn't paradise, but it's not so bad.  Restaurants are just your basic chain places like Olive Garden or Texas Roadhouse.  I live about 40 miles from Florence in west Tennessee near Savannah.  We go to Florence for the shopping that's not imaginable in Savannah and for doctors and dentists.

 

I was thinking that Huntsville might be an even better option.  It's a NASA town.  More people with higher education and a sense of opportunity.

 

Savannah's quaint, but nothing in the way of restaurants or general infrastructure. It's generally pretty warm, but it did get cold this past winter.  It was -6º F one morning.  It was in the 50's a week later.  I've been in Florence when it was snowing one day in 2022.

[Jingthing]

21 hours ago, tuktuktuk said:

Funny, I thought about suggesting Florence when I first read your post.  I figured Alabama had such a stigma that nobody would have considered it.  Florence/Muscle Shoals isn't paradise, but it's not so bad.  Restaurants are just your basic chain places like Olive Garden or Texas Roadhouse.  I live about 40 miles from Florence in west Tennessee near Savannah.  We go to Florence for the shopping that's not imaginable in Savannah and for doctors and dentists.

 

I was thinking that Huntsville might be an even better option.  It's a NASA town.  More people with higher education and a sense of opportunity.

 

Savannah's quaint, but nothing in the way of restaurants or general infrastructure. It's generally pretty warm, but it did get cold this past winter.  It was -6º F one morning.  It was in the 50's a week later.  I've been in Florence when it was snowing one day in 2022.

Thanks for your post.

 

I'm sure the Shoals area isn't paradise but I definitely can't afford paradise even if it existed.

 

Looking at D list options is a matter of compromises and trying to figure out which wants and needs that should have higher priority.

 

I'm well aware of Huntsville but it's solidly above the D list as far as costs so it's not a realistic option.  It would be much better as would so many other places that are above D list. I see Huntsville as an especially good option for working age people with the skills in demand there.

 

But Huntsville is relevant to Florence as it's in reasonable driving distance from Florence for its airport, restaurants, shopping, cultural events, etc.

 

I think a car is needed in the Shoals regardless but it would need to be at least an OK car to rely on for trips to Huntsville.

 

I think Huntsville is on a path for eventual much higher costs but I don't think Florence is close enough or likely to have the industry draws to be much effected by that when it happens. In other words it seems to me the Shoals probably won't change all that much in the foreseeable future. 

 

Much further away but being somewhat in the range of Atlanta is a big plus for me because of personal contacts there. Some Atlanta suburbs used to be more affordable but no longer. 

 

Occasional snow is one thing. It doesn't compare to hellishing bad and long winters found in the north. 

I think tornadoes are a concern in the Shoals region though. Those are not fun.

 

I was pleasantly surprised that a town as small as Florence has both a (small of course) reform Jewish temple and an annual Pride parade. Most towns that size in the south wouldn't have either.

 

The video says the Shoals is culturally more like Tennessee than Alabama. Not fully sure what he meant. Sure the music history in the Shoals but did he mean that the Shoals is less "redneck" than most of Alabama? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Another D list place of interest -- Huntington West Virginia.

 

Staying in Alabama -- what about Montgomery?

Definitely much better restaurant scene than the Shoals.

Edited May 2 by Jingthing

[tuktuktuk]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Thanks for your post.

 

I'm sure the Shoals area isn't paradise but I definitely can't afford paradise even if it existed.

 

Looking at D list options is a matter of compromises and trying to figure out which wants and needs that should have higher priority.

 

I'm well aware of Huntsville but it's solidly above the D list as far as costs so it's not a realistic option.  It would be much better as would so many other places that are above D list. I see Huntsville as an especially good option for working age people with the skills in demand there.

 

But Huntsville is relevant to Florence as it's in reasonable driving distance from Florence for its airport, restaurants, shopping, cultural events, etc.

 

I think a car is needed in the Shoals regardless but it would need to be at least an OK car to rely on for trips to Huntsville.

 

I think Huntsville is on a path for eventual much higher costs but I don't think Florence is close enough or likely to have the industry draws to be much effected by that when it happens. In other words it seems to me the Shoals probably won't change all that much in the foreseeable future. 

 

Much further away but being somewhat in the range of Atlanta is a big plus for me because of personal contacts there. Some Atlanta suburbs used to be more affordable but no longer. 

 

Occasional snow is one thing. It doesn't compare to hellishing bad and long winters found in the north. 

I think tornadoes are a concern in the Shoals region though. Those are not fun.

 

I was pleasantly surprised that a town as small as Florence has both a (small of course) reform Jewish temple and an annual Pride parade. Most towns that size in the south wouldn't have either.

 

The video says the Shoals is culturally more like Tennessee than Alabama. Not fully sure what he meant. Sure the music history in the Shoals but did he mean that the Shoals is less "redneck" than most of Alabama? 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not surprised that Huntsville would be more expensive.  I looked at some rental prices, but didn't research like you've been doing.  I've only been there a couple of times. 

 

It's pretty hard to get by without a car most anywhere in the US unless you're really in a city center.  City centers like that will always be expensive.  Get a small Japanese sedan with a manual transmission and you can get by for a long time with minimal maintenance costs.

 

We moved to where we are after my retirement because it was inexpensive.  Property taxes are small compared to Texas.  Paying school taxes without any children doesn't work to my advantage.

 

Northern Alabama is a warm climate.  You can a have a few chilly weeks in the winter, but it's never prolonged.  I could use a little snow here in Chaiyaphum right now.  We've had some tornadoes - some severe.  I don't really worry myself with it.  I've lived in tornado country all my adult life and I've still never actually seen one.  It's a Gulf of Mexico influence thing.

 

I'm not sure about the culture side of things.  We keep to ourselves and travel a lot.  Our neighbors are country people, but absolutely wonderful and will show up to help without even asking them.  We live out of town on 9 acres.  We leave it unoccupied for months at a time when we're here in Thailand and there's never been an issue with any intruders.  There are a lot of rural poor folks and a fair number of relatively wealthy farmers.

 

There are almost no restaurants and we have to travel to Nashville or Memphis just to buy Thai chilis.  Last time we bought some they were $15/lb.  We've been unable to grow them like we did in Houston.

[Jingthing]

You could do much worse than D list!

 

 

[impulse]

On 5/3/2024 at 6:58 AM, tuktuktuk said:

It's pretty hard to get by without a car most anywhere in the US unless you're really in a city center.  City centers like that will always be expensive.  Get a small Japanese sedan with a manual transmission and you can get by for a long time with minimal maintenance costs.

 

I had a cheap Toyota Sienna and I was paying almost $2K a year just for liability insurance and registration.  I maintained high limits, but just liability.  That's about $160 a month you wouldn't have to pay if you lived in a city where you could get around with no car.  And that's before gas and maintenance.  Cha ching.

 

That narrows the differential cost of living in a city (or suburb) where rent will be more expensive, but public transport is available and cheap.  Not to mention, at some age, it's no longer safe to drive.  Something to ponder for "down the road".

 

 

 

[tuktuktuk]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I had a cheap Toyota Sienna and I was paying almost $2K a year just for liability insurance and registration.  I maintained high limits, but just liability.  That's about $160 a month you wouldn't have to pay if you lived in a city where you could get around with no car.  And that's before gas and maintenance.  Cha ching.

 

That narrows the differential cost of living in a city (or suburb) where rent will be more expensive, but public transport is available and cheap.  Not to mention, at some age, it's no longer safe to drive.  Something to ponder for "down the road".

 

 

 

Valid point, but my Insurance on an almost new 2022 GMC heavy duty pickup is $500/year with full coverage.  That's the difference between rural and city living.  In a city like New Orleans my truck might be $5,000/year for full coverage.  In any desirable area of New Orleans an apartment would probably be $2,500/month.  I think he said under $1,000 rent.  That's hard to do in any city that has real public transport.  Some small towns have inexpensive shuttle service.  Our town does.  It's just a couple of dollars, but requires advance appointments.  That could work, but it hasn't for us when we needed it.  Uber doesn't come our way and there's no taxi service either.  Finding that D-list sweet spot isn't that easy.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I had a cheap Toyota Sienna and I was paying almost $2K a year just for liability insurance and registration.  I maintained high limits, but just liability.  That's about $160 a month you wouldn't have to pay if you lived in a city where you could get around with no car.  And that's before gas and maintenance.  Cha ching.

 

That narrows the differential cost of living in a city (or suburb) where rent will be more expensive, but public transport is available and cheap.  Not to mention, at some age, it's no longer safe to drive.  Something to ponder for "down the road".

 

 

 

A car is needed in the U.S. almost everywhere.

In most of the country, without a car, you're basically dead.

Sure cities like Chicago, New York, and San Francisco, if you want to pay thousands per month for a tiny space.

The lack of good public transportation is one of the main reasons I wouldn't choose to live in the U.S. Yeah you can Uber everywhere -- costing a fortune.

Thinking about these U.S. D list low budget options and comparing to outside of Thailand alternatives (where you generally don't need a car and taxis are cheap) makes the non U.S. choices look better overall.

The main advantages of the U.S. for oldies is Medicare, family friends contacts IF you still have them, and no need for a visa.

But consider a non US alternative like Queretaro Mexico which is not so cheap anymore.

Let's say a budget of 2000 dollars. Rent for a good place, mild weather all year, great restaurants you can afford to eat at daily, medical care affordable even paying cash, affordable taxis no need for a car. You could even do 1500. But 1000 because of rising rents and peso strength, not any longer. There are D list places in the US for similar budgets but do you get all that? Not even close.

Because of rising costs, its sometimes necessary to look at more D list places abroad too. Such as in Panama. Coronado and Boquette will be expensive but you can move to Chitre and meet low budgets. In Portugal, Braga or Coimbra instead of Lisbon or Porto, etc.

Edited May 4 by Jingthing

[impulse]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A car is needed in the U.S. almost everywhere.

In most of the country, without a car, you're basically dead.

Sure cities like Chicago, New York, and San Francisco, if you want to pay thousands per month for a tiny space.

 

There's a lot of eclectic small towns that have shuttle service catering mostly to old farts active seniors.  Not to mention the less fortunate who can't afford a car, and those who have too many DUIs and still need to get to work. 

 

Some are gub'ment funded, others are funded largely by retailers who need the customers.

 

Not as flexible as having your own wheels, but people adjust.

 

 

Edited May 4 by impulse

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

There's a lot of eclectic small towns that have shuttle service catering mostly to old farts active seniors.  Not to mention the less fortunate who can't afford a car, and those who have too many DUIs and still need to get to work. 

 

Some are gub'ment funded, others are funded largely by retailers who need the customers.

 

Not as flexible as having your own wheels, but people adjust.

 

 

I'm not really finding places like that at least at the D list level. Also as I'm sure you know if you live in a larger metro area with an actual mass transit system, areas near stations even very far out will be much more expensive.

As you got a tad political I'm assuming there would be more likelihood for some kind of support system for those without transport in places like Pennsylvania than Texas. Colder weather places.

 

Everyone's got their own personal set of priorities.

Mine have become clearer over time and looking at U.S. options has made them even clearer.

 

I want:

Low budget

Low rent in an interesting and safe area for more than a small box

Mild weather all year -- not too hot, not too cold (no need for much aircon or heating)

Wonderful food cheap enough to eat out or delivery daily or close

No need for a car (or bike)

Affordable health care

As you suggested, it would be worth it to pay somewhat higher rent to get all that.

Not possible in the U.S.

Edited May 4 by Jingthing

[impulse]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The main advantages of the U.S. for oldies is Medicare, family friends contacts IF you still have them, and no need for a visa.

 

You're forgetting a major one.  Back home, you can pick up part time work.  Or even a full time job.  Which serves a dual purpose of helping with the expenses, and giving you something to do besides hanging out at the bars. 

 

And it doesn't have to be a crap job if you have some skills to be self employed.  I did a lot of that for free, just to help my neighbors and have something to do during the lockdowns *.  I could have probably cleared several thousand $$ a month doing those odd jobs.  Try that in Thailand...

 

Still, if you're already established in Thailand, I doubt you'd do better back home or in Mexico.

 

Edit:  *My favorite was pressure washing driveways.  Something soothing about watching the grime disappear.  The locals who did it for money charged around $0.10 per sq ft, which would be around $100 an hour.  I did all my neighbors' driveways for fun and for free.

 

Edited May 4 by impulse

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

You're forgetting a major one.  Back home, you can pick up part time work.  Or even a full time job.  Which serves a dual purpose of helping with the expenses, and giving you something to do besides hanging out at the bars. 

 

And it doesn't have to be a crap job if you have some skills to be self employed.  I did a lot of that for free, just to help my neighbors and have something to do during the lockdowns *.  I could have probably cleared several thousand $$ a month doing those odd jobs.  Try that in Thailand...

 

Still, if you're already established in Thailand, I doubt you'd do better back home or in Mexico.

 

Edit:  *My favorite was pressure washing driveways.  Something soothing about watching the grime disappear.  The locals who did it for money charged around $0.10 per sq ft, which would be around $100 an hour.  I did all my neighbors' driveways for fun and for free.

 

I don't want to leave Thailand. 

But retirees are on a year to year leash.

So I want to have Plan B options lined up if I ever need to leave Thailand.

[jas007]

I’m not sure what qualifies as D list, but if you’re just looking for a roof over your head and proximity to health care, shopping, transportation and so on, there are many places. The Midwest comes to mind, so long as you don’t mind four seasons and the occasional tornado. Or the Deep South. Just find a small town within an hour’s drive to a big city and you’re all set. Still, unless all the inflation subsides, it’s anyone’s guess is you’ll still be able to get by on a small Social Security check.  Food prices seem to be crazy lately.  

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I’m not sure what qualifies as D list, but if you’re just looking for a roof over your head and proximity to health care, shopping, transportation and so on, there are many places. The Midwest comes to mind, so long as you don’t mind four seasons and the occasional tornado. Or the Deep South. Just find a small town within an hour’s drive to a big city and you’re all set. Still, unless all the inflation subsides, it’s anyone’s guess is you’ll still be able to get by on a small Social Security check.  Food prices seem to be crazy lately.  

Pretty much.

I'm into much more specific details though.

You don't move to anywhere if you move.

You move to someplace very specific.

As far as the Midwest, I've been talking about Youngstown Ohio and Fort Wayne Indiana but of course too cold.

 

Close to midwest Huntington WV is interesting. I like Pittsburgh but a tad over D list, maybe a suburb?

 

I'm not much into the desert southwest, so that leaves the deep south.

 

A bit of a surprise to me but Alabama has risen to high on my Plan B list in the U.S.

The shoals towns, maybe even Montgomery.

 

Places that are decent enough where you can buy a decent house for 100K USD are interesting.

 

Need a car almost everywhere and that's a budget buster. Maybe not needed in Pittsburgh for example which could justify higher rents.

[jas007]

I think the days of finding a house for $100k are over, unless you have a sense of adventure and can you do a little renovation.  Maybe wait and watch.  If the economy implodes and you have some cash, anything is possible.

[EVENKEEL]

Saipan of the Northern Mariana Islands is a US Territory. Spent months there anchored out. I see apartments close to the beach can be had for $500/mo  Hospital nearby in the area they call China Town.

 

Worth investigating because I believe Medicare can be used.

Edited May 5 by EVENKEEL

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, jas007 said:

I think the days of finding a house for $100k are over, unless you have a sense of adventure and can you do a little renovation.  Maybe wait and watch.  If the economy implodes and you have some cash, anything is possible.

Almost everywhere, yes.

Some places including some of the D list places we've been talking about, no.

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Saipan of the Northern Mariana Islands is a US Territory. Spent months there anchored out. I see apartments close to the beach can be had for $500/mo  Hospital nearby in the area they call China Town.

 

Worth investigating because I believe Medicare can be used.

If you like spam.

[swissie]

During my time in the US, I always admired the fact, that low income people were allowed to live in so called "Mobile Home Parks", with a little garden in front. (Never available in Europe for long-term residents). Now the space rent is 500/month?

Those figures are related to "Cities" (smaller or bigger), But I bet, that even today I could park my travel trailer in the middle of Kansas with a farmer for very little money, especially if I would feed the pigs twice a day and look after the chicken.

Only drawback: Not much spare-time Hoopla-Hoopla and the nearest hospital 100 miles away.

PS: What's the space rent in Quarzsite, Arizona, these days?

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, swissie said:

During my time in the US, I always admired the fact, that low income people were allowed to live in so called "Mobile Home Parks", with a little garden in front. (Never available in Europe for long-term residents). Now the space rent is 500/month?

Those figures are related to "Cities" (smaller or bigger), But I bet, that even today I could park my travel trailer in the middle of Kansas with a farmer for very little money, especially if I would feed the pigs twice a day and look after the chicken.

Only drawback: Not much spare-time Hoopla-Hoopla and the nearest hospital 100 miles away.

PS: What's the space rent in Quarzsite, Arizona, these days?

Buying a mobile home in a rented park is one of the most dangerous traps for poor people that there is. They are bought up by vulture companies who raise the rent to extortionate levels, ruining the value of resell, and most people are too poor to move it to another park if they can even find one without a similar problem. A totally captive audience. In theory they could be good "tiny homes" but in practice they are extremely not recommendable. Of course if you can buy the land too and it's hooked up that's much better but typically the land is more expensive than the unit so not a budget option in most of the country. There is also the stigma which isn't fun -- trailer trash, etc. Humorously "tiny home" communities are quite similar in structure but come across as trendy.

Edited May 5 by Jingthing

[Cryingdick]

I have already returned to the USA and have a place. However I am looking for a cheap place to do winters in a milder climate. One place that keeps popping up is Macon, Georgia. From what I can see there are some cute homes that are a bit rough. The neighborhoods look pretty unkempt in some areas but now and again a really cute place pops up that looks actually decent, prices are very low. 
 

I have asked about the crime and it is present though I was told it isn't gang infested, apparently it is a typical mid size southern town trying to make a come back. It has a historic downtown and actually some decent options for dining and entertainment. 
 

This suggestion is more for somebody wanting a house under $100k I have no idea about apartments or rentals. If houses are cheap rentals should be cheap as well. I imagine you can get a house to rent for well under $1,000.

 

it is not too far from Atlanta either which is a town I like. I would try to find something in a river valley to get some hills which prevent tornadoes. 
 

Weirton, WV would be another place with rents under $1,000 cheap gas, cheap pretty much everything. It is the closest town to where I live in the countryside. It is 100% safe, has a variety of restaurants and some big box shops. It is 30 minutes from Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh has some cultural activities and attractions although I haven't been there much. I hate the hills. 
 

It gets really dreary in the winter, that is what wears on me more than the cold. If I didn't have a really nice property in the forest here I would probably not choose Weirton. It does have a decent hospital and good things about it but it isn't pretty. There are nice natural areas surrounding it though.

 

Right now Macon and a few towns in Mississippi are where I am focused. Again I am not doing the summers there. Macon I like the idea of for some forms of entertainment as boredom will become your worst enemy in much of the USA.

 

 

[Jingthing]

The housing cost vs. rental economics is very location dependent.

In some places buying is overpriced relative to renting, and in others renting is overpriced relative to buying.

Plus those conditions are subject to change over time.

You can't really make universal generations on the issue.

There are also very significant pros and cons to both choices, so it's not only an economics decision assuming a person can afford to buy something.

Another factor which I don't see mentioned often is the economics of buying either with cash or mortgage when older.

It seems to me if doing that, estimated life expectancy should come into play in the decision making.

For example, say you have 150K in cash to buy outright. 

Well is that so smart to tie up all the cash including opportunity costs and maintenance liabilities if your life expectancy is 10 years?

As far as mortgages retired people generally earn much less than working so any tax advantages of a mortgage may be limited or nonexistent. 

Edited May 10 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

On 5/6/2024 at 9:34 PM, Cryingdick said:

I have already returned to the USA and have a place. However I am looking for a cheap place to do winters in a milder climate. One place that keeps popping up is Macon, Georgia. From what I can see there are some cute homes that are a bit rough. The neighborhoods look pretty unkempt in some areas but now and again a really cute place pops up that looks actually decent, prices are very low. 
 

I have asked about the crime and it is present though I was told it isn't gang infested, apparently it is a typical mid size southern town trying to make a come back. It has a historic downtown and actually some decent options for dining and entertainment. 
 

This suggestion is more for somebody wanting a house under $100k I have no idea about apartments or rentals. If houses are cheap rentals should be cheap as well. I imagine you can get a house to rent for well under $1,000.

 

it is not too far from Atlanta either which is a town I like. I would try to find something in a river valley to get some hills which prevent tornadoes. 
 

Weirton, WV would be another place with rents under $1,000 cheap gas, cheap pretty much everything. It is the closest town to where I live in the countryside. It is 100% safe, has a variety of restaurants and some big box shops. It is 30 minutes from Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh has some cultural activities and attractions although I haven't been there much. I hate the hills. 
 

It gets really dreary in the winter, that is what wears on me more than the cold. If I didn't have a really nice property in the forest here I would probably not choose Weirton. It does have a decent hospital and good things about it but it isn't pretty. There are nice natural areas surrounding it though.

 

Right now Macon and a few towns in Mississippi are where I am focused. Again I am not doing the summers there. Macon I like the idea of for some forms of entertainment as boredom will become your worst enemy in much of the USA.

 

 

Being accessible to Pittsburgh is a big plus.

Just checked and found an acceptable one bedroom for 550!

Living there I would get a better car and plan on weekly fun trips into Pittsburgh when the weather is OK.

You might also want to look at Augusta GA and Columbia SC. 

Edited May 10 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I did some research on Montgomery AL which as the capitol city has a lot going on that a town like Florence wouldn't. 

It looks like you can get a very nice house there in a decent area as low as 150K. Not 100K but what do you expect in a capitol city of any state?

Anyway I have rejected it not because of the hot and humid summers which are expected but the cold and humid winters which FEEL much colder than the temperatures!

So far it seems further north in Alabama (Florence) doesn't have that problem. 

[impulse]

On 5/5/2024 at 10:11 PM, Jingthing said:

If you like spam.

When I lived in SoCal, we used to have pot luck dinners every month or so, and our Hawaiian friends always brought Spam sushi.  Because we all requested it. 

 

Don't underestimate the humble Spam...

 

 

[Jingthing]

I've thought about this some more, did some specific research about the pros and cons of buying a house when older, and the actual costs of owning a car (so high!), my personal priorities and acceptance of risk (high) and this has resulted in at least a temporary change of mind.

 

Namely, 

Not having a car and not having the expense is a top priority. Maybe a must have.

Realizing there is a price to pay for that, but well balanced by that priority being met and the money saved to keep a car.

Realization that I would never buy a home, only rent. 

Feeling that having big city cultural amenities or at least the cultural amenities of a good university town is a top priority.

A feeling of flexibility of weather. It doesn't necessarily need to be great, but preferably so.

High crime? I'll take the risk.

 

With this in mind, I've got a current newer list.

 

Top of the list -- Athens Georgia.

One of the best places to live without a car, culture, restaurants including my personal acid test Ethiopian, close enough to Atlanta (for personal reasons).

Interesting to note that the youtuber City Nerd (really big on walkability and city amenities) rates Athens Georgia higher than Austin Texas!

 

Pittsburgh (in a central walkable area)

Philadelphia (in a central walkable area)

St Louis (yes high crime, in a central walkable area)

 

On the economics of the car thing.

Suppose the real cost of keeping a modest car is 700 per month or more.

I would buy with cash but then you get depreciation and opportunity cost of the money which could have been invested.

That plus insurance, maintenance, repairs, gas, etc.

So lets say you could get an apartment for 700 in a boring area where you need a car, but then add the 700.

Just sample numbers, but that means you could theoretically spend 1200 or more for a place in a walkable area in walkable city, leaving 200 for public transport costs, ubers, car rentals etc.

Obviously those numbers are very rough, but you get the idea.

 

 

.

Edited May 16 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Oh and when I say willingness to take more risk I also mean taking more risk of spending down my money.

Being an expat for so long was a big risk, the profile of my investments have been higher risk, so that's a pattern.

[jas007]

On 5/5/2024 at 8:50 PM, Jingthing said:

Almost everywhere, yes.

Some places including some of the D list places we've been talking about, no.

 

 I shouldn’t have made such a sweeping generalization.  Yes, you can find cheap houses almost anywhere outside of California. Real pieces of junk. and they don’t cost much until you factor in the cost of making them livable. And that’s the problem. If you can do the work yourself, you can save some money, but the costs will still add up.  

[Jingthing]

39 minutes ago, jas007 said:

 I shouldn’t have made such a sweeping generalization.  Yes, you can find cheap houses almost anywhere outside of California. Real pieces of junk. and they don’t cost much until you factor in the cost of making them livable. And that’s the problem. If you can do the work yourself, you can save some money, but the costs will still add up.  

Yeah there is no way I could or would take on a fixer upper.

[Cryingdick]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I've thought about this some more, did some specific research about the pros and cons of buying a house when older, and the actual costs of owning a car (so high!), my personal priorities and acceptance of risk (high) and this has resulted in at least a temporary change of mind.

 

Namely, 

Not having a car and not having the expense is a top priority. Maybe a must have.

Realizing there is a price to pay for that, but well balanced by that priority being met and the money saved to keep a car.

Realization that I would never buy a home, only rent. 

Feeling that having big city cultural amenities or at least the cultural amenities of a good university town is a top priority.

A feeling of flexibility of weather. It doesn't necessarily need to be great, but preferably so.

High crime? I'll take the risk.

 

With this in mind, I've got a current newer list.

 

Top of the list -- Athens Georgia.

One of the best places to live without a car, culture, restaurants including my personal acid test Ethiopian, close enough to Atlanta (for personal reasons).

Interesting to note that the youtuber City Nerd (really big on walkability and city amenities) rates Athens Georgia higher than Austin Texas!

 

Pittsburgh (in a central walkable area)

Philadelphia (in a central walkable area)

St Louis (yes high crime, in a central walkable area)

 

On the economics of the car thing.

Suppose the real cost of keeping a modest car is 700 per month or more.

I would buy with cash but then you get depreciation and opportunity cost of the money which could have been invested.

That plus insurance, maintenance, repairs, gas, etc.

So lets say you could get an apartment for 700 in a boring area where you need a car, but then add the 700.

Just sample numbers, but that means you could theoretically spend 1200 or more for a place in a walkable area in walkable city, leaving 200 for public transport costs, ubers, car rentals etc.

Obviously those numbers are very rough, but you get the idea.

 

 

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this is like a classic question from the show House Hunters. If you live closer to the city with the higher rents and you want any kind of life you are going to spend muchos pesos these days. If you consider a running car an opportunity cost because of that size of investment., I don't know what to say. Having no car in the USA is an opportunity cost. Get a certified Chevy equinox for around $15k. Although with Amazon it is better but you won't get the best deals.

 

you are also playing with fire by renting as your rent can be raised at any time. Nobody is going to lease for more than 8ne year. I am not sure what kind of credit rating you have but when I came back I started from nearly zero. I had lived as an expat in more than a dozen countries and my husband earns well. That didn't matter and that's part of the reason I bought land and built my own place. 
 

okay so you don't want a car. How does that work? This isn't Thailand. You get in the bus and spend more than an hour to get to the grocery store. On the way out you roll the cart, down a long parking lot,  to the bus shelter and hopefully put it where it belongs. After that another hour on the bus. Once you get home you carry your groceries up the steps to a  1 bdrm apartment. I can almost guarantee you will have steps. Hopefully you bought ten pounds of laundry soap and a pile of quarters so you can do your laundry.

 

i am actually trying to tell you nicely that is the reality. It takes about $5,000 net a month whatever you do here to make the wheels on the bus go round and round. These days that's being careful.