Vaccinations And Sick Dogs

[Smithson]

I'm starting this from a discussion on another thread.

We recently got a puppy, she became ill the day after we bought her home.

I think it was Parvo, but I'm not sure because the vet used the Thai name (something like intestine infection).

She survived OK, we've taken her home and had her seperated from our other dog for 5 days now.

The vet said bring her back this week for vaccinations, however from reading the other thread some ppl would say this is much to quick. How long should we wait and do we need to continue keeping her away from our other dog?

[BambinA]

For the vaccination, you had better wait till your dog complete recovery. Well 1 wks maybe too soon to get vaccination (2-4 wks later is better)

On the other hand,your dog who is infected is being a carrier.Virus is shed in feces for 13-30 days after recovery.

Using diluted bleach (Sodium hypochlorite) 1:32 for cleaning your dogs' shelter and floor .It is the only way that you can eradicate Parvo-V and Corona-V

[Nienke]

Sorry to read that your Puppy got parvo-viruss. But happy for all of you that she seems to pull through!

Completely agree with Bambina.

An individual with any sort of illnes should NEVER be vaccinated, point period! This is even adviced by those that make the vaccines, it's written in their guidelines! So, why your vet asks you to come back in a week for vaccinations, while your dog is clearly sick, is a complete riddle to me.

And so far I've understood, a dog that has had parvo-virus will have sufficient antibodies fort he rest of its life. This seems not to be the case if a dog has had Canine Distemper, though.

Corona virus is a puppy disease. Adult dogs do not need to be vaccinated against it.

Bambina also indicated about the shedding of the virus and, thus that you have to be careful as the virus can be very contagious. Although, you already have separated the puppy, you can still bring over the virus through your hands, cloths and shoes.

Best is to put a mat that has been made wet with the bleach solution, as told by Bambina, or something like a big flat bowl containing this bleach solution, in front of the door and wipe your feet on or in this everytime you're leaving her room. Also it's safer to put something over your clothes before handling the puppy and take it of and desinfect your hands after the handling and before you touch your other dog.

Did you read the links given on the thread about the vaccines, especially those from Dr. Schultz and Dr. Dodds? I suggest you to do so, before allowing your vet to stick the needle in your puppy, especially after such an advice!

Nienke

[Smithson]

Sorry to read that your Puppy got parvo-viruss. But happy for all of you that she seems to pull through!

Completely agree with Bambina.

An individual with any sort of illnes should NEVER be vaccinated, point period! This is even adviced by those that make the vaccines, it's written in their guidelines! So, why your vet asks you to come back in a week for vaccinations, while your dog is clearly sick, is a complete riddle to me.

And so far I've understood, a dog that has had parvo-virus will have sufficient antibodies fort he rest of its life. This seems not to be the case if a dog has had Canine Distemper, though.

Corona virus is a puppy disease. Adult dogs do not need to be vaccinated against it.

Bambina also indicated about the shedding of the virus and, thus that you have to be careful as the virus can be very contagious. Although, you already have separated the puppy, you can still bring over the virus through your hands, cloths and shoes.

Best is to put a mat that has been made wet with the bleach solution, as told by Bambina, or something like a big flat bowl containing this bleach solution, in front of the door and wipe your feet on or in this everytime you're leaving her room. Also it's safer to put something over your clothes before handling the puppy and take it of and desinfect your hands after the handling and before you touch your other dog.

Did you read the links given on the thread about the vaccines, especially those from Dr. Schultz and Dr. Dodds? I suggest you to do so, before allowing your vet to stick the needle in your puppy, especially after such an advice!

Nienke

Thanks for the advice, do you know what the incubation period is for parvo? I'm not even sure if this is what she's had, in Thai they call it 'lum sia acep' (if that makes sense).

She spent a lot of time around our other dog before we realized she was sick, although that was over a week ago now. We plan to take our adult dog for up date vaccinations tomorrow, but will wait another week before we take the pup.

[BambinA]

Incubation period =5-10 days

Lumsai = intestine

ukseb = inflammation

Lumsai Ukseb =Enteritis

[Smithson]

Incubation period =5-10 days

Lumsai = intestine

ukseb = inflammation

Lumsai Ukseb =Enteritis

Is this something to vaccinate against? Is it something that is likely to be a problem for our adult dog?

[Nienke]

Incubation period =5-10 days

Lumsai = intestine

ukseb = inflammation

Lumsai Ukseb =Enteritis

Is this something to vaccinate against? Is it something that is likely to be a problem for our adult dog?

Usually when there is a case of parvo-virus it is referred to as lumsai ukseb in the Thai language.

If your adult dog is vaccinated it should, according the 'records' be 'protected' against parvo-virus. But then, in my experience vaccines very often do not protect 100%. A lot depends on the individual's condition at the moment of the vaccination, meaning was the individual in perfect health or not when it received the jabs.

I had not too long ago distemper at the kennel, brought in by two fully vaccinated puppies (who got the disease from the vaccinations or they were fighting the virus and the vaccines triggered the disease). I had over 15 dogs, young and older dogs, showing symptoms and ALL of them were fully vaccinated (talking about protection ).

Thanks to the homeopathy all but 1 survived this disease which has a very high mortality rate nad none of the dogs showed any complications, something that I haven't ever experienced or heard of from other natural or regular treatments concerning this disease.

If your adult dog would be my dog, i would not go for another vaccination tomorrow, but wait. A. because you can over-vaccinate (assuming that the dog has received his annual boosters), and B. if the adult dog is in the incubation time, then the new vaccine can trigger the disease, making things worse instead of better.

Your dog is an adult with an fully matured immune system. In case he does show symptoms, he has more chance to overcome the illness. And if he is healthy, he is also much more likely to be able to fight the virus on his own.

Nienke

Edited July 26, 2007 by Nienke

[elfe]

hi

i wouldn't vaccine the adult dog either, if it's vaccinated already before and fit and healthy i would not worry too much. just keep them healthy with rich food and vitamins and watch them carefully. as nienke said, adult dogs rarely get this virus, e.g. get sick or show symptoms.

just my experience, i had a puppy here last year of about 10 weeks age, found on the street. the puppy seemed healthy, only had eye discharge which disappeared after i put some eye drops. then after 3 days i gave combined vaccine. the puppy was together in the house with all my other dogs. 3 days after vaccine of the puppy another dog here, 5 months old, no vaccine cause i got it from the shelter when 2 months old and then had a slight cough, became sick with bloody diarrhea and vomitting gelly saliva. the next day the puppy as well. i treated both immediately with fluids, antibiotics and vitamin k injections. the 5 months old pulled through after 4 days it was eating again and back to normal, the young, new puppy died sadly in my arms at night . it was too young to fight the disease even with the best care i could provide. ALL my other dogs which are vaccinated, did not show any symptoms or illness even they were not seperated from the two sick dogs.

some weeks ago i saw a severe sick dog at the vets. about 6 months old, green eye discharge, skinny, shaking legs and head. the owner said that it had these symptoms, but not so bad, 2 months ago and another vet vaccinated against distemper to fight distemper at this stage!! now 2 months later it had so much deteriorated that it had to be put to sleep.

this vet also wanted to vaccine a dog of mine which i found in the street recently with signs of distemper and problems walking probably due to nervous distemper. i did not do the vaccination but treated it with amoxyclav and vitamin b and good food and little 'ida' (about 5-6 months old) has so much improved since. she still walks funnily and falls down a lot when playing and running but the rest of her is fine and she has so much energy. i will NEVER vaccine her.

[Nienke]

the puppy seemed healthy, only had eye discharge which disappeared after i put some eye drops. then after 3 days i gave combined vaccine. the puppy was together in the house with all my other dogs. 3 days after vaccine of the puppy another dog here, 5 months old, no vaccine cause i got it from the shelter when 2 months old and then had a slight cough, became sick with bloody diarrhea and vomitting gelly saliva. the next day the puppy as well.

And this is where it so often goes wrong. The symptoms are over-looked or under-estimated and the under-lying cause is so often not questioned. (absolutely not criticising you, Elfe, this is just something I've become more and more aware of lately). Symptoms are treated as separate (localized) diseases, but more too often it's just one symptom of something else.

So, the main and first question should be: what causes that the immune system doesn't work optimal? With puppies this is more difficult as their immune system only matures after 6 months of age.

Another thing, what vets usually do not mention is that a just vaccinated dog sheds the virus for a certain period of time! Meaning that when you put a just vaccinated dog with other dogs, they are at risk (how minor that risk may be).

Nienke

[Smithson]

Thanks for the very sound advice.

The problem is we are not sure if our older dog has been vaccinated. We've been taking her to 2 vets and are only able to check the records of one. They say she has only been vaccinated against heartworm. My partner has taken her to another vet in the past and thinks she may have been vaccinated for something, but that was a few years ago now.

We have been putting of taking her for shots to wait and see if she has symptoms. When we first got the pup the 2 dogs were together, this is just before the pup got very sick. Since the pup came back they have been separated, however someone accidentally allowed them to play together for a few minutes 2 days ago.

So if ppl could pls give me some advice on:

What are the chances of our adult dog getting ill and if she does how dangerous is this for an adult dog?

If she isn't sick, should we vaccinate her in a week or so?

Our dog has been around plenty of other dogs including the soi dogs, she has never been ill.

[elfe]

as your dog is older and fit and came into contact with many dogs, bacteria and probably viruses already in his life i would not vaccinate now. especially as the virus is 'around your house' at the moment. i guess your dog has been vaccinated as puppy when taken to the vet.

this is my personal view, i'm not a vet.

[Smithson]

Elfe,

Although you're not a vet, you seem very knowledgeable and your advice is much appreciated.

[elfe]

thanks smithson, my pleasure. me too, i had to learn the hard way, but learning never ends...

there are some vets who would try to cure distemper with distemper vaccine... maybe it works in a few cases but i've never seen one, and it is not proven and most vets don't believe in this.

on another note, i've heard frequently that the disease we know as parvo is named differently with many thais, as you stated above. some vets and workers at the local shelter told me once that other infections of the abdomen and intestines show the same symptoms. like if the dog has swallowed something the stomach or intestines cannot handle and also cannot get rid of. so it might not necessarily mean that the virus is the cause... what do other think about that?