Expat Investment Advisors

[noobexpat]

19 hours ago, wordchild said:

Not True, Many offshore IFA,s still use a product called a "portfolio bond", as a kind of wrapper,   this is a structure which effectively locks the customer in for a number of years, carries high annual costs and is expensive to get out of.

 

The IFA,s  love them because they tie in the customer but they are of zero benefit to the majority of long-term expats.

 

These , portfolio bonds, can be very detrimental to your financial well being and if any advisor proposes such a structure you basically know that they are not going to act in your interests so walk away.

 

 

 

Incorrect. In fact more nonsense!

 

The wrapper is called a non qualifying investment bond. We use onshore and offshore versions.

Typically there is no initial charge but a sliding scale 6 year penalty that reduces by 1% pa. You are not locked into them at all. Some have enhanced allocation.

 

These plans are 99% used for IHT planning. But you won't know why. Its because they are not income producing and when created within a trust, which avoids trust taxation.

 

So many amateurs here. Why the guesswork guys??

[noobexpat]

20 hours ago, Misty said:

 

That's great to hear that you think the only fees involved in this case will be between GBP50-1500.  However, there are insurance-wrapped investments that have been sold much more recently than the 1990s with long maturity dates.  It's the insurance wrapper, not the investment, that has the long date. 

 

Give me the product name. Hope you don't mean investment bonds, because they have no maturity date.

 

They are sometimes to referred to as life insurance bonds and thats what you are incorrectly referring to, no doubt.

[Misty]

1 hour ago, noobexpat said:

We use onshore and offshore versions.

 

Who is "we" ?  Are you one of these IFAs?

 

1 hour ago, noobexpat said:

they have no maturity date.

 

The insurance policy wrapped investment products pushed by IFAs in Thailand and elsewhere do, in fact, have maturity dates listed in their "Policy terms"

 

[noobexpat]

45 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Who is "we" ?  Are you one of these IFAs?

 

 

The insurance policy wrapped investment products pushed by IFAs in Thailand and elsewhere do, in fact, have maturity dates listed in their "Policy terms"

 

 

No doubt similar to our offshore bonds, which don't have one and every other offshore bond i've ever seen.

 

So lets see these policy terms.

 

[wordchild]

4 hours ago, Misty said:

 

Who is "we" ?  Are you one of these IFAs?

 

 

The insurance policy wrapped investment products pushed by IFAs in Thailand and elsewhere do, in fact, have maturity dates listed in their "Policy terms"

 

https://www.aesinternational.com/wealth/reviews/offshore-investment-bonds/what-are-offshore-investment-bonds

 

This gives a reasonable, factual  and balanced  summary of the uses of offshore investment bonds.

In particular the section on "Problems with offshore investment bonds" is worth reading as it refers to the potential for excessive charging, which is what, i believe, you are referencing.

That section highlights the issue that many expats have experienced ie depending on the provider, the IFA/Wealth Manager can have a significant degree of flexibility with regards to the charging structure eg with the potential to impose a charging structure that could involve significant penalty (upto 9.5 percent)  for an early withdrawal from the scheme. That is , of course, on top of the other charges they impose on your assets.

 

The key takeaways for me are

     1) these products offer pretty much zero benefit for a long term expat who does not intend to return to the UK

     2) They offer the potential for loading exit charges which effectively tie in the customer.

     3) i am sure there exist honest IFAs who do not abuse these products but, for sure, some do 

  

 

Edited May 6 by wordchild

[wordchild]

34 minutes ago, wordchild said:

https://www.aesinternational.com/wealth/reviews/offshore-investment-bonds/what-are-offshore-investment-bonds

 

This gives a reasonable, factual  and balanced  summary of the uses of offshore investment bonds.

In particular the section on "Problems with offshore investment bonds" is worth reading as it refers to the potential for excessive charging, which is what, i believe, you are referencing.

That section highlights the issue that many expats have experienced ie depending on the provider, the IFA/Wealth Manager can have a significant degree of flexibility with regards to the charging structure eg with the potential to impose a charging structure that could involve significant penalty (upto 9.5 percent)  for an early withdrawal from the scheme. That is , of course, on top of the other charges they impose on your assets.

 

The key takeaways for me are

     1) these products offer pretty much zero benefit for a long term expat who does not intend to return to the UK

     2) They offer the potential for loading exit charges which effectively tie in the customer.

     3) i am sure there exist honest IFAs who do not abuse these products but, for sure, some do 

 To quote from the intro in the above linked piece;

 "The overseas use of offshore bonds has , unfortunately become associated with high charging , opaque, commision-based salespeople- who sell risky investments to unsuspecting expats" 

   That pretty much sums up the Devere approach and many other non-UK based IFA,s.

 

To Quote from the intro to the above;  " 

[wordchild]

" The  overseas use of offshore bonds has unfortunately come to be associated with high charging, opaque structures from commision-based salespeople who have sold risky investments to unsuspecting expats" Quoting AES from the above.

 

Edited May 6 by wordchild

[noobexpat]

2 hours ago, wordchild said:

 

The key takeaways for me are

     1) these products offer pretty much zero benefit for a long term expat who does not intend to return to the UK

     2) They offer the potential for loading exit charges which effectively tie in the customer.

    

 

Fair enough for reading the literature but you don’t actually understand when, why and who they are for. Because how could you?

 

Offshore bonds are not just used in connection with periods of non UK residency. They can also be suitable for people for have never left the UK and never will. Confused?

 

So what else don’t you understand about them. Everything really. You focus on exit charges but what about enhanced allocation, for example.

 

Personal finance is a strange subject. It brings out some peculiar over-confidence in folks. 

 

[noobexpat]

1 hour ago, wordchild said:

" The  overseas use of offshore bonds has unfortunately come to be associated with high charging, opaque structures from commision-based salespeople who have sold risky investments to unsuspecting expats" Quoting AES from the above.

 

 

Don’t use this ....use our's instead!

Come on don’t be naive.

Fear sells.

 

Added: no mention of maturity dates, right? no need to reply i already know the answer.

 

Edited May 6 by noobexpat

[Misty]

21 hours ago, noobexpat said:

 

No doubt similar to our offshore bonds, which don't have one and every other offshore bond i've ever seen.

 

So lets see these policy terms.

 

 

They seem to be variously referred to as "offshore bonds" and also "offshore savings plans" "offshore investment schemes" "offshore pension schemes" and perhaps other terms.

 

When you say "our" offshore bonds -- whose offshore bonds do you mean? Is it possible you've only seen a subset of what seems to be out there?

 

As you note, these offshore IFA pushed products are "policies" - as in insurance products. Maturity dates are included.  And surrender penalties if the policy is surrendered ahead of the maturity date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

Let's not personalise this, if you have a point or an argument to make, please make it.