Nine Anti-coup Leaders Detained

[sriracha john]

yep... seems like Post #238 was exactly how things played out today.... their petition to pre-empt the next jail time period was rejected, and rather than face another 12 days in jail with the smiling Somchai, they swallowed their ethics and applied for bail, exposing themselves for the gutless opportunists they are...

6 PTV Leaders Released on Bail

The Criminal Court releases the six detained PTV leaders on bail today from the Bangkok Remand Prison after they each posted 200,000 baht in cash as bond.

The Criminal Court granted bail to the six PTV leaders on Monday afternoon, including Weera Musikkapong, Jakkrapob Penkair, Jatuporn Prompan, Natthawut Saikua, Apiwan Wiriyachai and Wiputalaeng Pattanapumthai.

Before they were released, police submitted a petition asking the court to extend their detention period for another 12 days, but the group's lawyer Jessada Chandee lodged a counter complaint to veto the request, claiming it was unlawful.

However, the Criminal Court dismissed the PTV lawyer's request and approved the police petition to keep the PTV leaders in Bangkok Remand Prison for another 12 days until an initial examination into their charges was concluded.

The court's decision prompted the remaining detained PTV leaders to apply for bail despite the group's earlier insistance to refuse bail. 200,000 Baht in cash was given as bonds for each.

- Thailand Outlook

[John K]

Well there is a sign that at least a few brain cells are working properly. What an interesting choice they had, save Thailand or apply for bail. I guess they will be on the phone to the UK looking for a pay raise.

[sriracha john]

Here's a new twist to seek an excuse for illegal trespassing/breaking and entering a private home/[insert other applicable term].... just say, " Hey, I didn't break-in... the front door wasn't locked.... and besides, I only wanted to use their toilet to take a piss. "..... "I have a right to use any one's toilet at any time. "

Sheesh.... what a

Six UDD chiefs freed on bail

Join Sanam Luang rally last night, stay off stage

Meanwhile, a leader of Saturday Voice Against Dictatorship, Suchart Nakbangsai, yesterday turned himself in to Samsen police after an arrest warrant was issued for him for trespassing into another person's residence. Suchart was accused of trespassing into the house of Col Suchart Noinak near Gen Prem's residence on July 22. He denied the charge, saying he did not climb into Col Suchart's residence. He had walked through an open door and just used a toilet in the house. Mr Suchart was also charged with trespassing into the army headquarters on July 7 when he demanded the release of anti-coup activist Sombat Boonngarm-anong, who is also chairman of the Mirror Foundation.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/07Aug2007_news01.php

=========================================================

The conditions of their bail being that they stop their activities, eg. leading rallies, making provoking speeches, etc. is likely to be something they push to the limit.

It'll be interesting to see if they can stay out on bail without violating it.

[jumnien]

Political prisoners will continue to be taken so as to intimidate the general public. This practice will be continue even after the military has installed its new constitution and the General as the next prime minister. Whether any of us really benefit from applauding the military's ruthlessness is debatable.

[sriracha john]

A suitable alternative to support??? .... the club-wielding, rock-throwing political prisoners....

Associated Press

Associated Press

[jumnien]

Which political prisoner are you talking about in the photograph? Even the junta wouldn't go that far!

[Plus]

Have you seen this in that BP article:

"As bail was being processed, around 500 anti-coup demonstrators rallied outside the United Nations' office, seeking help to win the six detainees' release.

They also submitted a letter to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, asking for assistance in securing their release."

They are toying with the UN now.

They REFUSED to ask for a bail, and when they asked the bail was IMMEDIATELY granted, yet these hippocrites went to the UN asking for assistance.

Good luck in believing their bullshit, Mdeland.

[jumnien]

Keep lapping up the BS of the military dude, it's your life!

[Plus]

I don't see how the courts acted on military orders in this case. Even an ex-judge couldn't find a hole in their proceedings.

Detainees were treated fairly and according to the law.

It looks like they are executing a well prepared plan.., maybe not so well prepared, as no one believes them anymore.

First provoke violence, then get arrested, then refuse bail. After all, what kind of political victim are you if you are free to walk out of jail? Then ask the UN to blame the junta as if they are genuine freedom fighters. The only thing missing is a hunger strike.

When did Jakrapop sported the biggest smile of his life? The day he got arrested by "evil" generals. He's got a lot less to smile about now, when their spin wasn't picked up by the media and they backed down on playing martyrs.

[John K]

Perhaps everyone should be on the same page as what a political prisoner is and is not. The definition does not say anything about criminal activity but only ideas in conflict with the government. That limits it to mouth and tongue and not muscle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_prisoner

[hammered]

PR wise this has all been an almost unmitigated disaster for the UDD. First the Prem house riots were presented by local and international media as restrained police and out of control protestors setting the whole tone. Then the leaders didnt get their wanted martyrdom when the courts and police processed them as regular criminals and not political prisoners, and they failed to get hardly any sympathy locally or internationally. Then after stating that no bail would be applied for it was just about when they realised that local and international media were not looking at them as the politcal prisoners that their own rhetoric cried out for. All in all a disaster for the UDD with them looking like rioters being dealt with by the criminal justice system and maybe even worse having leaders who are now seen as being weak and going back on their word. In politics when trying to offer alternatives that is exactly what one cannot afford to be.

Politics as Mr. T knew so well is often about PR and marketing. His unruly proteges seem to have a lot to learn in this arena having faled almost totally to get their own message out while sing their opponents control PR things with apparent ease.

[sriracha john]

Have you seen this in that BP article:

"As bail was being processed, around 500 anti-coup demonstrators rallied outside the United Nations' office, seeking help to win the six detainees' release.

They also submitted a letter to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, asking for assistance in securing their release."

They are toying with the UN now.

They REFUSED to ask for a bail, and when they asked the bail was IMMEDIATELY granted, yet these hippocrites went to the UN asking for assistance.

Good luck in believing their bullshit, Mdeland.

or The Nation's quotes of their UN petition...

The petition said, "We are pleading for your help. Please take a proactive stance towards Thailand's growing political situation and see to the restoration of our human rights."

Beneath Jakob's the Liar's wasted Western-education.... it remains as...

[hammered]

Have you seen this in that BP article:

"As bail was being processed, around 500 anti-coup demonstrators rallied outside the United Nations' office, seeking help to win the six detainees' release.

They also submitted a letter to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, asking for assistance in securing their release."

They are toying with the UN now.

They REFUSED to ask for a bail, and when they asked the bail was IMMEDIATELY granted, yet these hippocrites went to the UN asking for assistance.

Good luck in believing their bullshit, Mdeland.

or The Nation's quotes of their UN petition...

The petition said, "We are pleading for your help. Please take a proactive stance towards Thailand's growing political situation and see to the restoration of our human rights."

Beneath Jakob's the Liar's wasted Western-education.... it remains as...

They are totally failing to get their message out and most of what is seen now is just desperation. At some point the minority of anti-Junta but also anti-T groups that allied themselves with monied up pro-T groups will have to question their tactic in doing this as limiting the support they have seen locally and almost importantly at the lack of sympathy abroad. The whole meme has been that the UDD/DAAD or whatever current acronym they use are a pro-Thaksin group rather than a pro-democracy group. This link to ex-PM Thaksin has been mentioned in news reports both in and out of Thailand. Sympathy for pro-democracy groups is always high but symapthy for groups linked to a single politician with a questionable human rights record is never going to be more than muted. It can be argued that the genuine pro-democracy groups that allied themselves with pure pro-T groups have by this mistake actually weakened the position of any genuine pro-democracy position in Thailand. By also then getting involved in an event that has widely been reported as a violent riot by demonstrators has only served to further this error in judgement by the minority groups in the alliance.

[sriracha john]

They might not be out for long...

The court granted the release on the condition they must not go back to anti-coup movements. If they did, their bail could be revoked and they might be returned to detention.

- MCOT

[hammered]

Maybe this thread should be renamed to : and then there were none.

[John K]

Maybe this thread should be renamed to : and then there were none.

SJ may be right, a sequel is coming. But for now this thread will go to sleep.

By the way two great and very accurate posts on you part Hammered.

[hammered]

Maybe this thread should be renamed to : and then there were none.

SJ may be right, a sequel is coming. But for now this thread will go to sleep.

By the way two great and very accurate posts on you part Hammered.

Well thank you. Praise is rare on here.

[Tony Clifton]

They might not be out for long...

The court granted the release on the condition they must not go back to anti-coup movements. If they did, their bail could be revoked and they might be returned to detention.

- MCOT

With their usual "above the law" attitude, they'll be back. Nothing but spineless kamikaze units for Dear Leader T.

I'd slap handcuffs on them next time to avoid the victorious waving followed with a serious laxative get rid of the smiling.

[rychrde]

Of course, if they get sick, then at least the protestors can enjoy substandard healthcare for 30b.

Actually, there is no 30 Baht system anymore. What we have now is a huge chaos - the gold card system. Lots of previously available medicine is not anymore, or has to be fully or partially paid for, depending on hospital or doctor. Some essential life saving medicine that was given under the 30 Baht system is now out of reach for poor patients. Recently, in my wife's family we had to have a collection going around because rather costly meningitis medicine had to be paid for suddenly. The same medicine was given out for free only three years ago to another uncle.

I am already dreading the coming bills for another relative who is in hospital right now.

Same substandard healthcare, only that it has to be paid for dearly now.

I've also had a similar experience. Which just goes to show the foolishness of setting up the scheme, without funding it properly, in the first place.

But this is a common (indeed .. universal ?) problem with social-medicine systems. Including back in the UK.

Fair credit to TRT for establishing at least some sort of system, as a tattered safety-net is better than none at all, and I'd say it is fairly unlikely that any future government would try to remove it, now that it's in-place.

I think you didn't get my post - there is no 30 baht scheme anymore, the gold card scheme of this government has replaced the universal scheme introduced under TRT, and essential life saving medicine that was available under the 30 baht scheme is now not.

The 30 baht scheme should have been improved, but instead it was scrapped altogether, such as almost every pro people policy TRT has introduced.

The gold card was the card issued under the 30 baht shceme certainly to all members of my family, and so is nothing new in of itself although maybe the new government now call it the gold card scheme rather than 30-baht scheme. As to how it operates nationwide from what I know it is now patchier than it was. It was always difficult presenting your gold card out of province even under TRT. It still remains so from what I know. In province it seems you now have less chance of getting the free paracetemol than under TRT. The people in my wifes village always joked about free paracetemol. The outpatient stuff was never very good and anybody who could pay used the private clinincs unless they were lucky enough to have the social security cover which is very good (itis a properly funded scheme). From what I hear under TRT and still to today the in patient service is available within province although the after operation care is not so good. How much this has to do with governemnt policy and with the basic fact of poverty stricken rural hospitals catering to too many people is hard to estimate. The current government claim they hav abolished the 30 baht charge but left the scheme in place. maybe that is their line but as with many things unless the government do talk the policy up, hospital administrators and doctors will find it easy to interpret the scheme as dead along with TRT. The truth is this scheme which does have merit needs to revised heavily and properly funded so that a safety net of a better quality can be provided to those who need it.that will indeed be achallenge for ay incoming government as what exists right now is in a mess to say the least.

The gold card system actually precedes TRT. A gold card was given for 500 Baht a year, and for this medicine prices were halved, beds and doctors costs were free. Now the gold card is given for free, and nobody knows exactly how the pricing is dealt with. Only one thing is clear - medicine that was given out for free has to be paid for now, doctors fees and beds are free.

Yes, the 30 Baht scheme had many faults, but my experience was that for the poor who could not afford the private clinics, or private care, it was a clear improvement. Not just paracetamol was given out, but, as an example, for my wife's HIV infected uncle, very expensive meningitis cure. The exact same cure had to be now paid for by another relative with HIV.

The question is not about who can pay for what, but that the ones who cannot, are now with a much worse medical coverage than under the 30 Baht scheme.

This seems to be going off-topic, but have not been on here for 2 weeks so will check if there is a proper thread later.

My sad experience is that healthcare now for Thais is complete crap! My sister-in-law and her husband have been paying some kind of government health insurance. This is on top of the old 30 baht card and should have given them cover for expensive treatments, such as having a baby. I would appreciate anybody who can tell me what exacly this cover is, as often the case I get the full family story in episodes.

Well, when it came to actually claiming on the policy the new military gov told them to sod off and that there was a cap on the amount they would pay. This meant baby was taken off the incubator and mother was sent home. Baby died after 5 weeks.

Most doctors are nw going private and spend few hours in their hospital jobs.

rych

[Gnarpjohan]

Well, when it came to actually claiming on the policy the new military gov told them to sod off and that there was a cap on the amount they would pay.

Of course, that sick baby is a losing proposition for the military chiefs - no money in it. They cling to power like leaches to feed off the general population.

In my book, those protesting the coupmakers are heroes. I hope there will be more of them, or this country will increasingly resemble Burma which the generals now openly seek to emulate.

In another development, the deputy chief of the junta's secretariat called for the allocation of parliamentary seats to soldiers, saying this would be an effective measure to prevent future coups.

"The constitution should involve the military in order to prevent any more intervention," said General Pasit Sonthikhan.

Pasit said Burma and countries in Africa set legislative quotas for soldiers, and Thailand should emulate these nations by setting aside seats in the House and the Senate for commanding officers.

He asserted that the September 19 coup had occurred because the ruling party held grudges against the military.

"Hard-pressed, soldiers reacted the way they knew how. The coup inflicted huge damage - in the billions of baht - and a suspension of democracy. This would not have happened if soldiers had a role in politics," he said.

[Plus]

Should the junta show their mettle and crack down on hospitals refusing treatment?

Perhaps it should.

[sriracha john]

First, sorry to hear of the loss of your nephew/niece, rych.... and I apologize for the other insensitive, reckless remark that didn't address the issue you posted on.

In regards to your post, sounds like your in-laws were covered by the social security plan on top of the free health care. It involves the monthly payments you describe and is of fairly limited coverage. Certainly both systems need a rework.

Edited August 7, 2007 by sriracha john

[rychrde]

First, sorry to hear of the loss of your nephew/niece, rych.... and I apologize for the other insensitive, reckless remark that didn't address the issue you posted on.

In regards to your post, sounds like your in-laws were covered by the social security plan on top of the free health care. It involves the monthly payments you describe and is of fairly limited coverage. Certainly both systems need a rework.

thank you

the locals here in sakaeo now have an open disdain for the junta but still feel powerless to do anything. the slow but steady decline in their quality of life does not make headline news but is now tangible - factories closing, people having to move to find new work, health care free but worthless, drug use up, burglaries up, food prices up, land prices down. Even TV seems to resemble soviet-style programming.

Some people are openly talking about going to work in Laos or Cambodia - how sad is that!!

rych

[John K]

They might not be out for long...

The court granted the release on the condition they must not go back to anti-coup movements. If they did, their bail could be revoked and they might be returned to detention.

- MCOT

With their usual "above the law" attitude, they'll be back. Nothing but spineless kamikaze units for Dear Leader T.

I'd slap handcuffs on them next time to avoid the victorious waving followed with a serious laxative get rid of the smiling.

And no sooner said......

Police wants bail for 6 DAAD leaders withdrawn

Police files a complaint Tuesday asking the Criminal Court to withdraw an order that released on bail six leaders of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) on Monday.

The police claimed that the six leaders violated the court's order which released them on condition that they would not lead rallies, give provocative interviews or threaten national security.

However, Veera Musiga-pong, Jatuporn Phromphan, Jakrapob Penkair, Natthawut Saikua, Wiputalaeng Patana-pumithai and Apiwan Wiriyachai headed to a rally at Sanam Luang right after their release on bail yesterday evening amid cheers and laughter from 2,000 supporters.

[John K]

Perhaps I was in error about those brain cells.

[Gnarpjohan]

First, sorry to hear of the loss of your nephew/niece, rych.... and I apologize for the other insensitive, reckless remark that didn't address the issue you posted on.

Well, I am sorry for the loss of your nephew as well. I also apologize for the vocal junta cheerleaders at this forum, for obvious reasons. Anyone who does not understand can read my previous post. Ironic that my post is "insensitive and reckless" when the junta's policies are responsible for the deteriorating medical care that kills people.

What is insensitive and reckless is the vocal junta cheerleading at this forum. Go visit Burma and have a fresh thought.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Gnarpjohan

[jumnien]

I agree that the junta cheerleading has been very crass and juvenile and incomprehensible from a moral standpoint. Then again, the anti-Karen people probably love the Burmese junta as well.

[hammered]

I agree that the junta cheerleading has been very crass and juvenile and incomprehensible from a moral standpoint. Then again, the anti-Karen people probably love the Burmese junta as well.

The cheerleading of a serial human rights abuser and more recently English football club owner has also been very crass, juvenile and incomprehensible from a moral and ethical standpoint. Pot and kettle springs to mind when seeing the uncritical cheerleaders of one side decide to come out with yet another bunch of political rhetoric to criticise the other. There may just be a time for people to critically examine what exacly it is they are supporting rather than unquestioningly just repeat the propoganda and rhetoric blindly. It is not like either of the sides is perfect.

[TAWP]

Anyone who does not understand can read my previous post. Ironic that my post is "insensitive and reckless" when the junta's policies are responsible for the deteriorating medical care that kills people.

If you don't have money you blame the government and expect a handout?

I see from your location that you are most likely one of the proud socialists I had hoped to have left behind.

Edited August 7, 2007 by TAWP

[Gnarpjohan]

If you don't have money you blame the government and expect a handout?

Yes, I blame the junta for the deteriorating medical care. After all, Thai people pay tax and deserve to get something back - not a handout - but something decent in return.

I notice that the junta has increased military spending by a large percentage but decreased spending on medical care, university scholarships and cut subsidies on rice. Not the type of policy changes I would prefer, and these preferences I believe to share with the majority of people in Thailand since TRT received the majority vote despite Thaksin. It's exactly the policy changes I would expect from a corrupt army regime.

I guess you couldn't care less, as long as you personally are doing fine?

I see from your location that you are most likely one of the proud socialists I had hoped to have left behind.

Now, that's an invitation to some serious flaming. I see that you are fond of generalizations. But no, I have never voted socialist.

Are you socialist? I notice that the Burmese military regime is perfecting the "Burmese Way to Socialism", maybe you praise them too just like some Thai generals?