Thai EV Market Remains Unfazed by European Sales Downturn

[sidneybear]

46 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You're the one quoting nonsense about EV drivers not wanting to buy another one when in reality most would never buy another ICE car.

Listen to this poor old sod ... there are lots more like him.

 

https://youtu.be/77Yo4LpksWM?si=Ncs4E5Ny6s2YwYW7

[sidneybear]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You couldn't be more wrong ...  again

 

We put on 20k kms, first year owning EV (car), and half of those were away from the house, requiring hotel stays & use of CS. 

 

More than half of the 'local' kms, were also away from 'puttering' around, and 40-100 kms away, not requiring any charging.   es:  house at mid PKK province to Hua Hin for instance, and a 200 kms roundtrip day out.   Or down to Ban Krut 130 kms, for a munch.

You're retired though, so you've got time to research charging points, queue and/or hang around for hours while your glorified milk float gets its recharge. 

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

You're retired though, so you've got time to research charging points, queue and/or hang around for hours while your glorified milk float gets its recharge. 

No need to research charging points, as they are pretty much everywhere we've been, and yet to make a detour to get to one.  All been quite conveniently located along our journeys.

 

You know, just puttering around.  Our puttering since owning the EV (car), for 1.5 yrs:

 

Of course if it's your work car, and you're on the road, and time is money, then an EV might not be the right choice.  But the traveling sales rep, is a thing of the past in most industries.

 

So you are the new EV troll who will be regurgitating all the old myths / BS that's been proved wrong again and again.

 

BYE BYE

Edited May 11 by KhunLA

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You're quoting nonsense.  Let's take the average price for 2019 MG ZS EV's (don't cherry pick unless it's not in your favour, it's bad manners), it is retaining 38% of it's value after 5 years, you think that's bad?

 

The MG ZS X+ was 799,000 in 2019, the average now seems to be about 310,000, it's also retaining 38% of it's value after 5 years.

 

QED, EV's do not depreciate any faster.

 

Your post is nonsense and so is the guy who said they depreciate faster over 5 years.

 

I am not calling him, but you are welcome to ask him to call me and I will tell him so to his face (I can spot reverse delegation a mile off).

 

 

 

52 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its you that is talking nonsense

Here is 5 MG ZS EV ranging from years 2019 to 2021 

I have factored in  a B75,000 markup fee by the dealer

although I seen reports that minimum dealer markup is normally B100K+

MG ZS EV 2021 Listed price B557,000

2 cars at this price one with 75km-80km other one with 50-55km

including a B75,000 markup fee by the dealer so dealer bought at approx B482,000

although I seen reports that minimum dealer markup is normally B100K+

Cost New 1,190,000

Year 1 depreciation value 26% value B880,600

Year 2 depreciation value 26% value B651,644

Year 3 depreciation value 26% value B482,216

 

MG ZS EV 2019 Listed price B455,000

2 cars at this price one with 27KM other one with 105-110KM

including a B75,000 markup fee by the dealer so dealer bought at approx B380,000

although I seen reports that minimum dealer markup is normally B100K+

Cost New 1,190,000

Year 1 depreciation value 26% value B880,600

Year 2 depreciation value 26% value B651,644

Year 3 depreciation value 26% value B482,216

Year 4 depreciation value 11.5% value B426,761

Year 5 depreciation value 11.5% value B377,683

 

MG ZS EV 2020 Listed price B449,000 85-90KM

including a B75,000 markup fee by the dealer so dealer bought at approx B374,000

although I seen reports that minimum dealer markup is normally B100K+

Cost New 1,190,000

Year 1 depreciation value 26% value B880,600

Year 2 depreciation value 26% value B651,644

Year 3 depreciation value 26% value B482,216

Year 4 depreciation value 22% value B376,128

There are 17 listed MG ZS EV listed on one2car com some are duplicates 

https://www.one2car.com/en/cars-for-sale/mg/zs/all/ev?fuel_type=Electric&page_size=26&sort=price.desc

Lets see how your 38% of its retained  value over 3 years 4 years and  5 years.

38% retained value over 5 years is based on  yearly deprecation of 12.4% X 5 =62 

So the

MG ZS EV 2021 Listed price B557,000

Cost New 1,190,000

Year 1 depreciation value 12.4% value B1,042,440

Year 2 depreciation value 12.4% value B913,177

Year 3 depreciation value 12.4% value B799,433

So in this case the dealer has under valued his car by B242,433

MG ZS EV 2019 Listed price B455,000

Cost New 1,190,000

Year 1 depreciation value  12.4% value B1,042,440

Year 2 depreciation value 12.4% value B913,177

Year 3 depreciation value 12.4% value B799,943

Year 4 depreciation value 12.4% value B700,750

Year 5 depreciation value 12.4% value B613,857

So in this case the dealer has under valued his car by B158,857

MG ZS EV 2020 Listed price B449,000

Year 1 depreciation value  12.4% value B1,042,440

Year 2 depreciation value 12.4% value B913,177

Year 3 depreciation value 12.4% value B799,943

Year 4 depreciation value 12.4% value B700,750

So in this case the dealer has under valued his car by B251,750

Clearly MG ZS EV have a higher rate of deprecation than the 12.4% and they are not retaining  a value of 38% over 5 years

And none of these figures include any provision of a dealer markup

[JBChiangRai]

51 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its you that doesn't like the numbers Every used car dealer buys in at price x and sells at price y its the same when used car dealers buy from auction houses buy in at price x and sells at price y

Its why most sellers choose to sell privately because they factor in that they can get a higher price than what the dealer has offered them 

 

 

You will find depreciation figures published in every country, how many of them spout dealer margins as being relevant?

 

I would estimate, approximately... BIG FAT ZERO

 

Stop inventing concepts

 

40 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

Lets see how your 38% of its retained  value over 3 years 4 years and  5 years.

38% retained value over 5 years is based on  yearly deprecation of 12.4% X 5 =62 

So the

MG ZS EV 2021 Listed price B557,000

Cost New 1,190,000

Year 1 depreciation value 12.4% value B1,042,440

Year 2 depreciation value 12.4% value B913,177

Year 3 depreciation value 12.4% value B799,433

So in this case the dealer has under valued his car by B242,433

MG ZS EV 2019 Listed price B455,000

Cost New 1,190,000

Year 1 depreciation value  12.4% value B1,042,440

Year 2 depreciation value 12.4% value B913,177

Year 3 depreciation value 12.4% value B799,943

Year 4 depreciation value 12.4% value B700,750

Year 5 depreciation value 12.4% value B613,857

So in this case the dealer has under valued his car by B158,857

MG ZS EV 2020 Listed price B449,000

Year 1 depreciation value  12.4% value B1,042,440

Year 2 depreciation value 12.4% value B913,177

Year 3 depreciation value 12.4% value B799,943

Year 4 depreciation value 12.4% value B700,750

So in this case the dealer has under valued his car by B251,750

Clearly MG ZS EV have a higher rate of deprecation than the 12.4% and they are not retaining  a value of 38% over 5 years

And none of these figures include any provision of a dealer markup

 

Since when was depreciation linear?  You really do need a maths lesson.

 

The Thai Big Know It All said the depreciation at 5 years was much higher for EV's than ICE.  I proved that wrong.

[JBChiangRai]

50 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

You're retired though, so you've got time to research charging points, queue and/or hang around for hours while your glorified milk float gets its recharge. 

 

That made me laugh.

 

Seriously though, your knowledge and concepts are flawed.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

Listen to this poor old sod ... there are lots more like him.

 

https://youtu.be/77Yo4LpksWM?si=Ncs4E5Ny6s2YwYW7

 

I lost barely 10% on my Porsche Taycan selling it after 2 years here.

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You will find depreciation figures published in every country, how many of them spout dealer margins as being relevant?

 

I would estimate, approximately... BIG FAT ZERO

 

Stop inventing concepts

 

 

Since when was depreciation linear?  You really do need a maths lesson.

 

The Thai Big Know It All said the depreciation at 5 years was much higher for EV's than ICE.  I proved that wrong.

if you look at any of the UK car trade books they publish 

retail price what you should be looking to pay for a vehicle on sale in a dealer showroom

trade price what you might expect to get if selling to a dealer for cash only

part-ex what you should be expecting to get from a dealer if your trading in your car for a new model from the dealer

private price what you should listed your car if selling privately 

Now if a dealer makes an offer for your car that offer is always going to be lower than what they will listed it for and equally most people prefer to sell privately as they know they can advertise at a higher price than what they were offered by the dealer

Not inventing concepts its simple the price that a used car dealer lists a car for sale will not be the same price that the dealer has bought the car for

And I prove you wrong that the annual depreciation for a MG ZS EV is much higher than you posted

 

[sidneybear]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

No need to research charging points, as they are pretty much everywhere we've been, and yet to make a detour to get to one.  All been quite conveniently located along our journeys.

 

You know, just puttering around.  Our puttering since owning the EV (car), for 1.5 yrs:

 

Of course if it's your work car, and you're on the road, and time is money, then an EV might not be the right choice.  But the traveling sales rep, is a thing of the past in most industries.

 

So you are the new EV troll who will be regurgitating all the old myths / BS that's been proved wrong again and again.

 

BYE BYE

Calling me a troll and saying bye bye doesn't seem to stop you from saying your piece, so I'll say mine.

 

At least you concede that you're not time bound, and can potter around as a retiree. For the rest of us, charging points are sparse, frequently out of order, or you're in for a long wait. In the UK, for example, people get into fights, such is their frustration, while they look longingly at people filling up their ICE cars in 5 minutes, including the time taken to have a leak... Thais are polite, and are unlikely to start fights, but the problem remains...

 

Frustrated motorists say furious EV owners argue with each other over charging points because there…

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I lost barely 10% on my Porsche Taycan selling it after 2 years here.

Really?

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

Calling me a troll and saying bye bye doesn't seem to stop you from saying your piece, so I'll say mine.

 

At least you concede that you're not time bound, and can potter around as a retiree. For the rest of us, charging points are sparse, frequently out of order, or you're in for a long wait. In the UK, for example, people get into fights, such is their frustration, while they look longingly at people filling up their ICE cars in 5 minutes, including the time taken to have a leak... Thais are polite, and are unlikely to start fights, but the problem remains...

 

Frustrated motorists say furious EV owners argue with each other over charging points because there…

Good thing we're not in the UK.   Although I did think the "Thai EV market" was the topic.

 

No real need to simply repeat that the UK is an EV sh!thole ... that was already pointed out:

... "Thai business operators maintain an optimistic outlook for the local growth of the EV market. They attribute this optimism to unique local conditions, differentiating them from the European market.

 

High insurance and repair costs, inadequate charging facilities, and termination of governmental EV subsidies have contributed to the European market downturn, according to Bloomberg."

 

Unlike some forum folks, a few of us have some 'reading comprehension'....

.... "However, the FTI advises against drawing early conclusions, suggesting a 4-5 year wait for a more definitive understanding of the Thai EV market."

 

But please tell us all how bad EVs are now, and what our future holds.

 

Give me some lottery numbers or stock picks.  I might be more impressed ...

... or not

Edited May 11 by KhunLA

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

That made me laugh.

 

Seriously though, your knowledge and concepts are flawed.

I was in a taxi the other day, an EV. I asked the driver how he liked it and he spent the rest of the trip telling me how dreadful it was. Despite manufacturer's claims, the battery lasted half his shift and (of course) waiting hours for a charge was out of the question, while his mates filled up in a few minutes on LPG.

 

The only thing that gave this poor man solace was that this piece of junk was leased, and he was going to swap it for one with a proper engine.

 

He did tell me that EV taxis were going to be compulsory in the future (the mad green cult is growing like a cancer here as we know) and that there may be no drivers willing to work when that happens. 

 

You idealistic greenies are all the same: well off, on pensions, or whatever. Idealistically looking down your noses and preaching green nostrums to those who have to work for a living or are time bound. Your cars are toys, impractical to most others.

Edited May 11 by sidneybear

[motdaeng]

23 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

I was in a taxi the other day, an EV. I asked the driver how he liked it and he spent the rest of the trip telling me how dreadful it was. Despite manufacturer's claims, the battery lasted half his shift and (of course) waiting hours for a charge was out of the question, while his mates filled up in a few minutes on LPG.

what a piece of crap! are you for real?

oh, I forgot, you're a troll... we shouldn't feed a troll.

sorry for feeding you!

 

[sidneybear]

3 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

what a piece of crap! are you for real?

oh, I forgot, you're a troll... we shouldn't feed a troll.

sorry for feeding you!

 

I'm telling you what he said. If you disagree with it, there's no need to be rude: just hail a ride with an EV taxi and ask the driver which is better for him as a working man. You'll need to speak the lingo, obviously. 

 

You green zealots are so touchy when people question your daft beliefs and use rational arguments. Relax mate.

Edited May 11 by sidneybear

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

I'm telling you what he said. If you disagree with it, there's no need to be rude: just hail a ride with an EV taxi and ask the driver which is better for him as a working man. You'll need to speak the lingo, obviously. 

 

You green zealots are so touchy when people question your daft beliefs and use rational arguments. Relax mate.

I just got out of a taxi and it was a BEV (MG EP). so asked driver on the drive what she thinks of the EV for work.   She loves it, comfy, easy to drive, surround cameras, quiet, smooth, and inexpensive to operate.

 

Drives for about 4-5 hours, stops for lunch, plugs in, goes to 100% or 90-95% depending is she's done eating, and latter only takes 30 mins.   She loves it, customers love it, beats those crappy Corollas, and has plenty of luggage space since no gas tank in the trunk.

 

End of work day, goes home, plugs in, low rate overnight, and starts the next day topped up.

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 If you have X fires in 2,000,000 ICE cars and Y fires in 300,000 EV's the numbers per 100,000 are...

 

X/(2,000,000/100,000) or X/20 for ICE

Y/(300,000/100,000) or Y/3 for EV's.

 

Maths lesson, you're welcome.

I know you are struggling with math, but that is not how the numbers you are sharing was generated.

What they did was simply total vehicle fires for a given year divided total sales.

In 2021 there were 180,000 fires in the US and about 15 million sales.

180,000/15,000,000 × (100,000)  = 1200 ICE fires/100,000 sales.

Close enough to the 1530 number quote.

When you do the same for EV the magic 🎩 starts. Most EVs are new, and few were sold more than 3 years ago so total numbers of fires is of course low, but current sales numbers are high and you get the wonderful, but fake number of 25 EV fires/100,000 sales.

 

Spreading bias and false EV info only harms the industry and ur own credibility. 

[sidneybear]

20 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I just got out of a taxi and it was a BEV (MG EP). so asked driver on the drive what she thinks of the EV for work.   She loves it, comfy, easy to drive, surround cameras, quiet, smooth, and inexpensive to operate.

 

Drives for about 4-5 hours, stops for lunch, plugs in, goes to 100% or 90-95% depending is she's done eating, and latter only takes 30 mins.   She loves it, customers love it, beats those crappy Corollas, and has plenty of luggage space since no gas tank in the trunk.

 

End of work day, goes home, plugs in, low rate overnight, and starts the next day topped up.

She's a part timer who has another source of income, or is living with hubby, or mum and dad. The taxi driver I was in told me that EVs are good for part timers, people who do half a shift before the battery goes flat, or who aren't in a hurry waiting to recharge. In other words, a sideline job driving a toy car for a bit of extra cash, and not a real one. EVs are useless for people trying to make a living out of driving taxis though  

Edited May 11 by sidneybear

[JBChiangRai]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I lost barely 10% on my Porsche Taycan selling it after 2 years here.

 

2 hours ago, sidneybear said:

Really?

yea really, photos sent to you DM

 

I am not the only poster here with this car.

[JBChiangRai]

18 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I know you are struggling with math, but that is not how the numbers you are sharing was generated.

What they did was simply total vehicle fires for a given year divided total sales.

In 2021 there were 180,000 fires in the US and about 15 million sales.

180,000/15,000,000 × (100,000)  = 1200 ICE fires/100,000 sales.

Close enough to the 1530 number quote.

When you do the same for EV the magic 🎩 starts. Most EVs are new, and few were sold more than 3 years ago so total numbers of fires is of course low, but current sales numbers are high and you get the wonderful, but fake number of 25 EV fires/100,000 sales.

 

Spreading bias and false EV info only harms the industry and ur own credibility. 

 

I can see you’re finding this hard to follow, perhaps we should start with the two times table and work up from that

[sidneybear]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

yea really, photos sent to you DM

 

I am not the only poster here with this car.

Details please. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I can see you’re finding this hard to follow, perhaps we should start with the two times table and work up from that

Seriously?

You are spreading false EV propaganda and then you are not capable of understanding the facts even when the numbers are laid out in front of you?

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, sidneybear said:

Details please. 

The other member prefers to remain anonymous.

 

I sold mine on it’s 2nd birthday for 90% of what I paid new for it. At the time there was a 12-18?month waiting list for a new one.

 

I prefer to simply call it my earlier EV, I don’t like to brag.

 

 

[sidneybear]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

yea really, photos sent to you DM

 

I am not the only poster here with this car.

Post here, for all to see and discuss, or it doesn't exist. Why are you so coyly sending me DMs?

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, sidneybear said:

Post here, for all to see and discuss, or it doesn't exist. Why are you so coyly sending me DMs?

Because I don’t like to brag.

 

But unlike you, I know EV’s. My household has had 5 in the last 6 years.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

Post here, for all to see and discuss, or it doesn't exist. Why are you so coyly sending me DMs?

Here are 3 of our EV’s, we also have an MG4 I have posted it’s photo before on another EV thread,,I don’t have a photo of it on my phone.

[sidneybear]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The other member prefers to remain anonymous.

 

I sold mine on it’s 2nd birthday for 90% of what I paid new for it. At the time there was a 12-18?month waiting list for a new one.

 

I prefer to simply call it my earlier EV, I don’t like to brag.

 

 

How old was it, and how many kms on the clock? People were still buying into the hype if there was a waiting list, so how long is the waiting list now? Please don't bolster your position with people who choose to remain anonymous. They don't exist and are excluded. It's just you.

[sidneybear]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Because I don’t like to brag.

 

But unlike you, I know EV’s. My household has had 5 in the last 6 years.

Daft post. Don't like to brag? Nonsense. 

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

How old was it, and how many kms on the clock? People were still buying into the hype if there was a waiting list, so how long is the waiting list now? Please don't bolster your position with people who choose to remain anonymous. They don't exist and are excluded. It's just you.

 

It was 2 years old, 16,000 on the clock, there was a long waiting list, I don’t know how long now.

 

I am not going to break a confidence by naming the other regular EV poster who has the same car. He is a friend and I respect confidences, I have seen the car.

 

Unlike you, the protagonists for EV’s actually own them, at least 4 of us have 2 or more. We have real world experience and are not full of hot air.

[JBChiangRai]

21 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Seriously?

You are spreading false EV propaganda and then you are not capable of understanding the facts even when the numbers are laid out in front of you?

 

 

Would you mind if I accept US Gov’t statistics rather than your fanciful interpretation.

 

Data from the National Transportation Safety Board showed that EVs were involved in approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 sold. Comparatively, approximately 1,530 gasoline-powered vehicles and 3,475 hybrid vehicles were involved in fires for every 100,000 sold.

 

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/environment-energy-coordination/climate-matters/EV-less-fire-risk#:~:text=Data from the National Transportation,fires for every 100%2C000 sold.
 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Would you mind if I accept US Gov’t statistics rather than your fanciful interpretation.

 

Data from the National Transportation Safety Board showed that EVs were involved in approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 sold. Comparatively, approximately 1,530 gasoline-powered vehicles and 3,475 hybrid vehicles were involved in fires for every 100,000 sold.

 

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/environment-energy-coordination/climate-matters/EV-less-fire-risk#:~:text=Data from the National Transportation,fires for every 100%2C000 sold.
 

 

Your link is (again) not working.

Your chart have the numbers do the math and you will see I am right.

They do TOTAL fires in the entire vehicle pool for each segment and then divide it by a single years sale.

You must be able to understand that is massively false statistics in favor of EVs.

Fires per billion miles is the only true number.