BOI LTR important to maintain qualifications

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

They again asked for health insurance proof. I had previous given them proof of a RRSP (like a USA 401k) in Canada which significantly exceeded the $100k USD equivalent in cash, but this time they again advised they would not accept an "investment account".  They specified it had to be a SAVING account '12 months past'. 

 
Its conceivable this is why mine failed.. I uploaded a bank statement but not also a 12 month old bank statement. 
 

The fact that they wont tell me just leaves me guessing. 

[oldcpu]

Just now, LivinLOS said:

 
Its conceivable this is why mine failed.. I uploaded a bank statement but not also a 12 month old bank statement. 
 

The fact that they wont tell me just leaves me guessing. 

 

That would be strange.  I was given multiple opportunities to prove I could meet the Health Insurance requirements.  I kept pointing to different accounts until I found one they would accept.

 

In what you provided, I am puzzling over the word "endorsement".

 

According to the BoI website, one submits an application on line for qualifications endorsement ...

 

It then notes, after receiving complete and valid documents, the application will then be registered and sent for the qualifications endorsement by relevant agencies (such as Immigration, Thailand's Board of Investment, Department of Consular Affairs, etcc ... ).  ....

 

It also states "any decision or judgment made by the government agency regarding the LTR Visa qualification endorsement result is considered final and binding".

 

From that I assume you were refused either at Step-4 (Status: Consider by by Government Agencies) or Step-5 (Status: Qualifications approved).

 

That makes me think you were not 'endorsed' by either:
- Immigration or
- Thailand's BoI or
- Consular Affairs

 

I note they in their refusal to you state "you are welcome to reapply when you meet the necessary qualifications". This makes me believe the refusal was in step-5 and that it has NOTHING to do with Immigration nor Consular Affairs, but rather is strictly due to something within BoI.

 

They state "LTR Visa staff do not have the authority to endorse applications" ... but they do NOT state "BoI does not have the authority to endorse applications".

 

So if I had go guess, its someone more senior in BoI who made a policy decision over riding the LTR Visa staff on your application?  PURE SPECULATION on my part.  Likely you deduced this already.  When senior staff over rule more junior staff, especially in government organisations, there can be all sorts of reasons, and sometimes others in the vicinity are impacted by the 'collateral damage' (such as LTR applications denied).  PURE SPECULATION by me.

 

Best wishes in what ever your decision is to do next.

 

 

[Presnock]

27 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Me too, its the most frustrating aspect.. I uploaded it all.. month goes by 'consideration by officer' nothing happened.. Emailed.. nothing happened.. emailed again and the case progressed one step on the timeline (final reviewing??).. No contact.. Emailed again (almost 2 month mark now) and got a refusal by email with 'please try again'.. I asked why and the only responses I could get are 'we do not have to tell you.. please try again'.. 

Kind of maddening.. 
 

I tried to ask what they would like me to change and got the same 
 

 

So forgive me for being a little less than impressed in how to proceed or have the same opinions as others saying how clear the service is.. What do they want ?? As far as I can tell I showed everything they ask for. 

NOte several communications already about sending documents, refused and back and forth.  Same with me and it basically in my opinion is that over the time the LTR has been approved. I think that many times the initial officers (low level) in the BOI approved what seemed to fit in with the qualifications but when it went to the approving officers, it did fit what needed or they did not understand that it actually fit the qualification but that they were not familiar with it or it might needed to be passed to someone even higher, I don't know except I found the officers there very patient and helpful.  Once I understood that even though I had govt documents proving my finances and health insurance benefits documents, those just didn't fit every category so once I sent a letter from my insurer and my 1040 tax forms, I was approved immediately - total time 5+ telephone calls, 3 weeks total time from application.  No problem as for the value of this visa, even  longer would have made me happy.  Best in my mind.

[Presnock]

On 5/11/2024 at 4:55 PM, oldcpu said:

 

I wish you good luck on your approach - and I hope you succeed.

 

I have an LTR visa (due to my pensions and investments in Thailand) and not due to my stock investments.

 

Still , i am curious if you will succeed.

 

I confess, based on my experience with BoI with obtaining self health insurance, I am not confident you will succeed.

 

The 'issue' , as I see it, is BoI may look not only for wealth meeting certain criteria, but they also want high confidence (or perhaps 'strong verification' is a better word) that such wealth is sustainable and repeatable. 

 

Hence they asked for tax returns from many of us, not for just 1 year, but they wanted tax returns for 2 years (in my case I ended up giving them 3 years due to unlucky timing on my part).  Further, they rejected stock/trading accounts (which had the necessary $100k US$ equivalent) for self health insurance, even thou the $100k US$ cash equivalent in the stock trading accounts was exceeded significantly (I dare say exceeded by multiple amounts).

 

So when it comes to proving the $80K US$ annual income for an LTR Wealth Pensioner Visa (and also proving the financial amount as a Wealth Global citizen), I think BoI may struggle to accept a stock portfolio.  

 

I wonder thou, if one submits a tax return (to the country where their stock portfolio exists), does that tax return show, over multiple years, an income that meets the LTR requirement?  If so, I ask myself if that would providing that tax return ONLY be adequate 'proof'/'verification' of income consistency and sustainability for BoI?

 

I am curious as to what others may post on this - but I am skeptical based on my limited experience here.  i.e I believe its not just having the wealth and income to obtain the LTR visa, but its able to prove to BoI that the wealth and income is verifiable and sustainable (all in my humble opinion) over time.  I could be wrong of course.

 

Best of luck in your efforts.

 

tax forms are their favorite.  I had other govt documents for many years showing exactly what I am paid yearly (used for the preparation of thos tax returns) so the info was there but they wanted my tax

returns - the other documents showed what I was, taxes taken out and health insurance taken out.  But those officers that review the documentation know what their supervisors want to see so that is why they keep asking for more documents and they don't want you to be able to blame any particular officer for not accepting a document.. Good Luck

[Presnock]

On 5/11/2024 at 5:30 PM, aublumberg said:

 

No personal experience with LTR-WP but a couple observations with regards to the LTR Wealthy Pensioner requirements: earned income does not qualify at all, only passive income. As per BOI website "unearned or passive income includes, but are not limited to pension, rental, capital gain, dividend, and interest payments". So capital gain in general seems accepted, at least in their generic overview. Not sure whether that includes crypto. However, under the list of requirement documents BOI states "Individual income tax return such as P.N.D. 90/91, BIR60, Form 1040, SA100, T1 General etc. showing income of no less than 80,000 [...] USD per year in the past 2 years. In case of “Wealthy Pensioner category”, please provide a pension certificate or individual income tax return e.g. 1099r or any documents showing UNEARNED or PASSIVE income such as interests, dividends, royalties or rental incomes etc. of no less than 80,000 [...] USD per year". So (a) they seem to want at least 2 years history and (b) there's no more mention of capital gains in this section and the examples given for passive income have a recurring connotation. 

 

At the end of the day every case is different, and I would suggest you speak to BOI directly about your case and ask whether the documentary evidence that you can provide is sufficient for LTR-WP or not. They are usually quite responsive and helpful. Good luck!

actually, I originally gave them my 1099R spelling out salary for the year, taxes paid and health insurance paid.  They still just kep asking for my 1040 tax forms so gave them that and no problems.

[Presnock]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

I agree but the question then becomes is the conditions of the visa 'to maintain 250k USD' or 'to import 250k USD which you can then spend'.. 

The lawyer I spoke to said the latter, but he also said and maintained on a 2nd call things other lawyers strongly dissagree with, as does the local labour office (the exemption for needing a work permit to work online for businesses outside of Thailand). Actually much of what was discussed was later changed, contradictory, he couldnt back up with law, etc. Colour me less impressed with the quality of advice. 

I am not familiar with the online workers for a company outside of Thailand but it seem this might be a gray area as you are a Tax resident working here.  Anyone until the final interpretations are printed for all to see, be they a tax lawyer or whatever means nothing except a "possibility" just like the other rumors from AN members.  But, the LTR is clearly marked as no tax on remitted funds into Thailand once one holds that visa.  Prior to that, being a tax resident and remitting funds before actually obtaining the LTR are reportedly assessable for tax in Thailand.  Now if your company pays you by sending your salary to a bank outside of Thailand and then after you have the LTR you remit that money to your Thai bank - I am unsure of the Revenue Department call when/if they audit your Thai account.  Just as I am unsure how they will do my account - as I will not have any assessable income ever but remit from my stateside bank acct.   They may ask me to provide documents that 1 - US govt pension or 2 copy of LTR.  I will do either willingly as I will follow their guidance.  But if they do try to tax me and then give me tax credits I will do that willingly.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

Anyone until the final interpretations are printed for all to see, be they a tax lawyer or whatever means nothing except a "possibility" just like the other rumors from AN members.  

 

Yes it was just during the video call he was adamant it was sure, when I said ok so this is in law then, there is a legal exemption for LTR online work.. He started backtracking saying 'we have an understanding with the labour dept, you cannot get in trouble'.. Which was very reminiscent of what the elite folks used to say and many elite visa agents still maintain, despite being 100% wrong. 

I then went to the local labour dept here in CM and asked them and they said absolutely no way any work is still work even on LTR visa.. Same thing said by a well known Bangkok law firm.. The BKK law firm even said "the BOI doesnt get to make the law, the law is the law"..  

Which then makes me wonder about the remote worker category, where is that in any law which says you can work online for that visa.. I have never seen it. 

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

As I am in Chiang Mai its a trip but I was recently in bangkok and would / should have done.. I wasnt aware they accepted people as walk ins for advice. 

As said before even if I gained it now I wouldnt have ability to go and collect it due to travel plans so will review the process in Autumn..

I also started paying myself an 8k EUR a month, simple clean single payment for IP rental from one source company so there is an easy to understand 96k EUR passive income, as my income was made of many streams and perhaps they didnt like that. 

AT some point  a few months ago, Star Visa in CM was the Rep for BOI handling of LTR applications in CM area.  That might be the easiest as they also act as Agents for expats doing regular visa applications and renewals.

[LivinLOS]

13 hours ago, Presnock said:

AT some point  a few months ago, Star Visa in CM was the Rep for BOI handling of LTR applications in CM area.  That might be the easiest as they also act as Agents for expats doing regular visa applications and renewals.

Yeah I actually have friends who do a lot of BOI based work and applications who have offered to help.. 

I am kind of bloody minded and stubborn and tend to like to do all my visa things myself. But possibly BOI and lacking connection to it maybe I shouldnt be so independent. 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Yeah I actually have friends who do a lot of BOI based work and applications who have offered to help.. 

I am kind of bloody minded and stubborn and tend to like to do all my visa things myself. But possibly BOI and lacking connection to it maybe I shouldnt be so independent. 

I totally understand, retired here 20+ years ago and have always done all my immigration bit and with the BOI LTR, it was easy working with those folks and I began to understand after reading a lot of the fourm members talking about their experience with the BOI.  I found them very patient and understanding as I explained each document but it at times seem to fall on deaf ears - I eventually realized that those in the initial proceedings are but buffers for the senior folks who actually make the decisions on documentation and approvals of the LTR so one needs to talk to the reps and after they explain exactly what they need, one must understand that whatever documentation one might have, you might have to write a clearly understandable explanation of why that document does provide exactly what they NEED to make the decision makers happy.  Good luck

[LivinLOS]

7 hours ago, Presnock said:

buffers for the senior folks who actually make the decisions on documentation and approvals of the LTR so one needs to talk to the reps and after they explain exactly what they need, one must understand that whatever documentation one might have, you mi1ght have to write a clearly understandable explanation of why that document does provide exactly what they NEED to make the decision makers happy.  Good luck

But there is my frustration.. I have never had access to any 'reps' the entire thing is online and the refusal lacks any explanation whatsoever. Could be anything large or small. 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

But there is my frustration.. I have never had access to any 'reps' the entire thing is online and the refusal lacks any explanation whatsoever. Could be anything large or small. 

are you in Thailand?  if so, call them and talk to them, explain what you have, sometimes you have to draw them a picture in their mind so they truly understand whay you ae talking about.  I was frustrated too,

and chatting with them - as for the 40K retiree - with other qualifications, it mentioned the 1099 could be used for financial yet when I provided them 2 years of 1099R they told me "oh you have to provide us with your 1040 tax forms for the past two years...I had also given them my annuity (1st for each year plus January's) which yeah they would have to multiply by 12 but then they said no it has to be from your government - I explained that th 1099 R and annuity statements are from the Govt and that they are what provides the numbers for the 1040 but they insisted again about 1040 so that is what I gave them plus my health insurance office had just sent me a "2024 Overseas Health Benefits Brochure" 17 pages...I highlighted for the BOI every sentence/phrase that provided "UNLIMITED HOSPITALIZATION" but they said what I sent them would not pass because it did not say "USD $50K  for Hospitalization"...another AN user sent me a note saying he had the same insurer and he asked them to write him a letter saying exactly that phrase.  I sent an email to the insurer and the next day they returned an email letter saying exactly that phrase.  Then in less than a week I made the appt to get the stamps in my PP.  I called about 5 or 6 times and talked with those junior officers and they speak English well and were very patient and helpful.    I don't know of course what you are using as documentation to support the qualifications but those two are the main ones for me and it actually turned out easier than I thought it would.  I am extremely happy with this VISA and its benefits especially since it is actually cheaper.  I wasn't worried about the tax as my only income is a US govt pension so with the DTA over riding the Thai tax laws I am safe two ways! ...ah I see you are in CM  I think star visa there was a rep for the boi and LTR you might check with them and if so they may be able to guide you.  As for walk-in, I said I would do that and they replied that they didn't want to do that anymore but...  Any check with Star Visa and maybe...  Are you a US cit or EU? as I know our documentation is totally alien to each of us.  Good luck!

[LivinLOS]

8 minutes ago, Presnock said:

are you in Thailand?  if so, call them and talk to them, explain what you have, sometimes you have to draw them a picture in their mind so they truly understand whay you ae talking about.  I was frustrated too,

 

Yeah too late now.. My travel would mean I couldnt collect any visa awarded.. 

Will revisit the whole idea later in the year, Maybe even Jan next year when I will have 12 months of clean passive income to show, in a super simple month by month same payment format. 

Of course the lack of a tax return might be it, but the BOI lawyer in the video call indicated as long as I could document it fully then it should work. He did understand living here and not bringing in funds same year means no filing. 

[sabaiguy]

On 5/13/2024 at 11:16 PM, Presnock said:

actually, I originally gave them my 1099R spelling out salary for the year, taxes paid and health insurance paid.  They still just kep asking for my 1040 tax forms so gave them that and no problems.

I agree they like 1099R's, but 1099R's have nothing to do with salary paid (think that is W2's).  1099R's are for passive income which is what BOI wants.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, sabaiguy said:

I agree they like 1099R's, but 1099R's have nothing to do with salary paid (think that is W2's).  1099R's are for passive income which is what BOI wants.

 

2 hours ago, sabaiguy said:

I agree they like 1099R's, but 1099R's have nothing to do with salary paid (think that is W2's).  1099R's are for passive income which is what BOI wants.

1099R replace w2's for retirees who do exactly that retire,  Of course if one moves on to another "job" they could get both.  And that is correct, 1099R's should satisfy BOI but in my case they wanted my 1040 tax forms instead of the 1099R.  How they communicate exactly what they want may be based on the applicant.  That I don't Know, only what my experience with them was.  I thought they were very helpful throughout.

[sabaiguy]

17 hours ago, Presnock said:

 

1099R replace w2's for retirees who do exactly that retire,  Of course if one moves on to another "job" they could get both.  And that is correct, 1099R's should satisfy BOI but in my case they wanted my 1040 tax forms instead of the 1099R.  How they communicate exactly what they want may be based on the applicant.  That I don't Know, only what my experience with them was.  I thought they were very helpful throughout.

I agree they were helpful.  I gave both 1040's (2 years) and 1099R's (3 years).  Not to beat a dead horse but I think your 1099R reflects your pension (passive) not salary.  If you're retired don't think you receive a "salary".

[Presnock]

5 hours ago, sabaiguy said:

I agree they were helpful.  I gave both 1040's (2 years) and 1099R's (3 years).  Not to beat a dead horse but I think your 1099R reflects your pension (passive) not salary.  If you're retired don't think you receive a "salary".

that is why I saId the 1099R replaces the W2 for retirees who do Exactly that, as the purpose of both is exactly the same - preparaton of tax form 1040.  But who cares in any case I didn't say anthing about a salary and you are the won stoking that horse nor did I say I receive a salary.   Now I see why so many current users of this forum talk about how useful it used to be and now we have these people who make up stories to counter whatever someone is talking about.  Some people need to get a life I guess.  

[sabaiguy]

On 5/13/2024 at 11:16 PM, Presnock said:

actually, I originally gave them my 1099R spelling out salary for the year,

Actually you did say your 1099R showed salary not pension.  I'm sure it was a simple misstatement.  But that's cool we both got our LTR.  Chokdee

[Presnock]

On 5/12/2024 at 4:14 PM, LivinLOS said:

 

They dont accept crypto at all.. even if you have > 1m USD crypto asset gain that year doesnt count 1 baht. 

I am confused by the process really, even tho I have a few 100k in capital gains last year I understand many of those are hard to demonstrate (crypto, physical precious metals etc) but I had a clearly documented 130k USD in passive income.. However as I live in Thailand, and have done for decades, I dont have a tax return to show this, I suspect thats what they want ?? I also showed almost 5m THB sent into Thailand in just 2023 spent. 

My 2023 app failed but they will not tell me why, however they repeatedly emphasized you are welcome to apply again.. OK so what about the application were you not happy with ?? We do not have to tell you !! OK so what do you want me to change ?? We do not have to tell you !! But I showed you 130k usd passive income 100k in the bank fpr insurance and 5m thb imported in 2023 whats not good enough ?? We do not have to tell you ??

At this point I have given up as I will spend my summer in Europe so couldnt collect it even if I was granted it now. 

I have since Jan started to have a company pay me 8k EU as a clear passive income (rent on IP) and will resubmit that next Dec, but the refusal is just strange.. We wont say why but please try again ?? Everything was there. 

Where did you pay taxes as that is also one of the OECD CRS that is bringing up the taxing of remitted income.  You say remitting to Thailand 5m THB, did you file Thai taxes?  If not then you must have paid taxes elsewhere - that is prehaps why the BOI requests tax forms filed for the last two years which they kept telling me I needed to do also as I did the 199R for my pension but they still insised on the 1040R for the previous two years...USD 50K hospitalization is an entirely different matter which can be replaced by a USD 100K self insured fund in the bank for the previous 12 mos.  The initial folks at the BOI know exactly what their senior folks deciding whether or not one gets an LTR so they just tell the applicant that this or that is not acceptable documentation for the LTR qualifications.  Good luck to you and all applying for this what I consider to be the best visa for people retired like me as a resident.

[Presnock]

On 5/14/2024 at 8:48 AM, LivinLOS said:

But he claiming 'ALL European' expats somehow have this cover by default, presumably he means from socialized medicine systems.. They dont.. 

This isnt a 'how does the BOI want it' thing he is making a very silly claim. 

The bottom line in qualification for the LTR - that is the decisions set down by the senior officials that decide yea or nay on issuing the visa.  The front office receiving the applicants documentation have specific directions on WHAT can be accepted.  They have gone through over 7000 applicants so far with approvals so many people provided the BOI with documentation that fit into the blanks that are required.  One of those blanks for me was the tax forms for the previous two years, and USD$50K hospitalization coverage.  They are very specific in what they need to send the application forward so call and talk to them, forward whatever they decide they will look at but also be prepared for providing EXACTLY what they must have in order to forward your application.  I called at least 5 times before I was able to provide exactly what they wanted though previous to all the calls, I HAD PROVIDED US govt documentation of my pension for the previous two years and health insurance I have had since 1996 that showed "UNLIMITED" hospitalization but that was not sufficient as it did not say "USD50K hospitalization".  Once I understood (but still don't understand clearly why) I did just what they said - 1040's and USD50K hospitalization.  Good luck and hope my explanation helps you to better understand the why failure in your initial application.

[Presnock]

On 5/14/2024 at 12:50 PM, LivinLOS said:

As I am in Chiang Mai its a trip but I was recently in bangkok and would / should have done.. I wasnt aware they accepted people as walk ins for advice. 

As said before even if I gained it now I wouldnt have ability to go and collect it due to travel plans so will review the process in Autumn..

I also started paying myself an 8k EUR a month, simple clean single payment for IP rental from one source company so there is an easy to understand 96k EUR passive income, as my income was made of many streams and perhaps they didnt like that. 

I mentioned that I would bring my initial application and documentation to the BOI office but they said they were entertaining walk ins and that the application and supporting documentation needed to be done on line so that is what I did.  They also did not accept some of the US govt documentation that DID actually fit the criteria but they were insistant about tax forms and 50K hospitalilzation too even though the health insurances documentation said "unlimited for hospitalization" but finally insurer sent a letter saying USD50K hospitalization and within a week my LTR was approved.  was easy once I understood that their senior folks will apparently only accept exactly what I said they wanted as I am not so sure that the senior folks don't want to have to figure out what something means to us that does fit the qualification but to them ...well they just don't want to have to figure out if something is right or not.  Good luck again