Expats Sticking To Their Own Kind

[keestha]

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background. English speakers meeting up in places with names like Dave's Bar or the Dogs <deleted>, whilst the German speakers congregate in Alt Heidelberg, Wunderbar or whatever. The more expats there are, the more outspoken this phenomenon gets. In a place like for instance Pattaya there are places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans, that nobody from northern Germany would even think about going in there. There will be also places then where only a minor language like Dutch or Danish is spoken. For a long time I lived in one of the major beach resorts, still go there every year. The two biggest groups of expats there are the English speakers and the German speakers, contact between the two groups is very limited. Strange that people move half way around the globe in order to settle in kind of a bubble which is populated by their fellow countrymen, or at least people who speak the same language. There are extreme examples, like the German or Austrian restaurant owner who has been in Thailand 20 years already. He doesn't speak Thai, and he even hardly speaks English. He is speaking German with his customers all the time, and all the communication with the outside world, like government institutions, and even with the staff, is handled by his Thai wife with whom he communicates somehow.

[Cobalt60]

I have this feeling that it is not exclusive to Thailand....Southall anyone ?

It must be something to do with comfort, tribal instincts,stick with your own kind for safety etc

[Lite Beer]

Never understood it myself. Why come to Thailand and then try to live in little England or Italy or Germany or wherever. It`s beyond me.

[Lite Beer]

I have this feeling that it is not exclusive to Thailand....Southall anyone ?

It must be something to do with comfort, tribal instincts,stick with your own kind for safety etc

Good point. But the Brits who complain about Asian ghetos in England come here and do the same.

[think_too_mut]

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background. English speakers meeting up in places with names like Dave's Bar or the Dogs <deleted>, whilst the German speakers congregate in Alt Heidelberg, Wunderbar or whatever. The more expats there are, the more outspoken this phenomenon gets. In a place like for instance Pattaya there are places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans, that nobody from northern Germany would even think about going in there. There will be also places then where only a minor language like Dutch or Danish is spoken. For a long time I lived in one of the major beach resorts, still go there every year. The two biggest groups of expats there are the English speakers and the German speakers, contact between the two groups is very limited. Strange that people move half way around the globe in order to settle in kind of a bubble which is populated by their fellow countrymen, or at least people who speak the same language. There are extreme examples, like the German or Austrian restaurant owner who has been in Thailand 20 years already. He doesn't speak Thai, and he even hardly speaks English. He is speaking German with his customers all the time, and all the communication with the outside world, like government institutions, and even with the staff, is handled by his Thai wife with whom he communicates somehow.

I have never wanted any farang in my vicinity.

Because, they are illiterate and write blocks of text that is unreadable. Dieseldorf metal sheet workers, tattoed and alcoholics at that.

Just look what the block above looks like. Anyone who has been in school for 3 months would write better.

[qwertz]

Not being one for policing grammar, I should however add that there's another aspect to this enclave phenomenon.

Speaking for Germans and English, we have a bar/pub culture and will tend to seek out compatriots wherever we go for obvious reasons.

We can communicate straight away and get some accurate information in a language we understand.

If a farang wants the griff on a visa run, the right prices or legal advice - why would he ask a Thai?

You'll never deter farangs from their "local" mentality any more than you'll disperse any other ethnic or religious group among the indigenous population.

[uptou]

i think its just sometimes easier to not have to explain the joke over again,especially if drunk.

[mrtoad]

Using Pattaya as an example?

I couldn't think of a worse example to use.

It's also ridiculous to to suggest that expats hanging out in the same places is a bad thing. qwertz is quite right in saying that the Brits, Germans and the Aussies do have a culture of going to the bar for a beer and a chat. That is why in certain bars in BKK you will see lots of Farangs speaking in their native language. It doesn't mean that they don't embrace living in a foreign country, but if you want to and have a chat about the weird things that we sometimes talk about then you are going to do it with people who understand, rather than go to Somchai's Karaoke Bar and listen to My Way being butchered.

I really don't think that in the majority of places in Thailand have Farang ghetto's - probably in resorts like Pattaya, Phuket, Samui but in Bangkok no, and you cannot seriously compare a place like Southall to anything over here.

[kayo]

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background. English speakers meeting up in places with names like Dave's Bar or the Dogs <deleted>, whilst the German speakers congregate in Alt Heidelberg, Wunderbar or whatever. The more expats there are, the more outspoken this phenomenon gets. In a place like for instance Pattaya there are places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans, that nobody from northern Germany would even think about going in there. There will be also places then where only a minor language like Dutch or Danish is spoken. For a long time I lived in one of the major beach resorts, still go there every year. The two biggest groups of expats there are the English speakers and the German speakers, contact between the two groups is very limited. Strange that people move half way around the globe in order to settle in kind of a bubble which is populated by their fellow countrymen, or at least people who speak the same language. There are extreme examples, like the German or Austrian restaurant owner who has been in Thailand 20 years already. He doesn't speak Thai, and he even hardly speaks English. He is speaking German with his customers all the time, and all the communication with the outside world, like government institutions, and even with the staff, is handled by his Thai wife with whom he communicates somehow.

I have never wanted any farang in my vicinity.

Because, they are illiterate and write blocks of text that is unreadable. Dieseldorf metal sheet workers, tattoed and alcoholics at that.

Just look what the block above looks like. Anyone who has been in school for 3 months would write better.

think too mutt, that was bloody unecessary.

Back on topic:

I too believe that for a large part it is instinctive for people to congregate unto their own.

As a -primarily- bartender in various different countries over the years, I've gotten along and become friends with people of all nationalities, as well as met a variety of people I couldn't stand, of all nationalities, in both cases including British and people from the local nation/

Nonetheless, I felt more of an affinity with the British, more so as time and years have gone on.

Until now. after a decade abroad, I am back in England, and the people I have the greatest affinity with are the foreigners and the British who've lived as expats before and will again.

[Cobalt60]

I was not trying to compare Southall with any where in Thailand, just trying (maybe in a clumsy fashion) to illustrate the point that birds of a feather, tend to flock together.

Think too mut, you are foreign to an awful lot of other people on this earth, hope for your sake that they are more tolerant of you than you are of them.

[donna]

the thing with situations in bars etc is that you dont know the background to the people in then when you first see them. i mean, lets say someone lives in the boonies somewhere. they get relatively little contact with people from their own country who they can share jokes with, talk about current affairs, footy, etc. so they go to the next big town for a few days so that they can have a touch of 'normailty' for a while. sure he/she would be excited about being with like minded folk, and as a result may get a little loud due to the excitement.

but it doesnt mean that they associate with their countrymen all the time. it may just be an occasional thing.

[A_Traveller]

There's a curious point here I think. In the UK there is a long running prime-time {decades} TV programme called Coronation Street. The creator focused the action around a pub and the series is set in the north of England. The oddity here is that the idea came from a pub just off Sloane Square in London. He noted how people from different backgrounds, mixed and interacted to a large degree irrespective of this.

In other words the pub tradition, dare one say culture, in the UK, has by and large been an inclusive one. Ironically, as Kayo notes this has become less true over the years. Therefore it is not in and of itself surprising that people will gravitate to an environment which they both recognise and feel simpatico with. {even if it's only for one drink, I have that tee shirt:)}

Regards

[retirednavyman]

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background. English speakers meeting up in places with names like Dave's Bar or the Dogs <deleted>, whilst the German speakers congregate in Alt Heidelberg, Wunderbar or whatever. The more expats there are, the more outspoken this phenomenon gets. In a place like for instance Pattaya there are places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans, that nobody from northern Germany would even think about going in there. There will be also places then where only a minor language like Dutch or Danish is spoken. For a long time I lived in one of the major beach resorts, still go there every year. The two biggest groups of expats there are the English speakers and the German speakers, contact between the two groups is very limited. Strange that people move half way around the globe in order to settle in kind of a bubble which is populated by their fellow countrymen, or at least people who speak the same language. There are extreme examples, like the German or Austrian restaurant owner who has been in Thailand 20 years already. He doesn't speak Thai, and he even hardly speaks English. He is speaking German with his customers all the time, and all the communication with the outside world, like government institutions, and even with the staff, is handled by his Thai wife with whom he communicates somehow.

When i was stationed in the Philippines I learned how to speak Tagalog quite well bordering on fluency, I also learned how to speak some of the provincial dialects like Pampangan and Visayan (although not as well as Tagalog). I already knew how to speak Spanish (enough to read and write) which I picked up here in the States. Moral of the story is "when in Rome, do as the Romans do"

This German or Austrian restaurant owner just doesn't understand what he is depriving himself of. I feel sorry for him

[retirednavyman]

No mention was made about American expats living in the LOS, do they tend to stick together as well? If it were me, I would hang out with everybody

Mike

[qwertz]

Americans don't seem selective, they hang with any English speakers if the company's right.

[kayo]

Personally, I like mingling and mixing and matching my friends and social life, nonetheless. Those that I trust more, will often be those of British descent.

But I'd also have nights out with my thai friends, guatemalan friends, whereever depending on where I've lived.

When I ran the bar in Guatemala, there'd usually be (the regulars) the one or two english expats, a couple of americans, a couple of canadians, and sevreal guatemalans. The owner was Brazilian. But yeah, I'd generally have more trust in the Brits/

That just might be due to the fact that I can read them better. I know that what I see in their face and in their eyes is something I understand. Some cultures have differences like that.

Take many (Yes, I'm going to generalise) Thai's. I've loved a few and liked a lot. I trust several of the Thai people that I've gotten to know well.

But it's like I was told once.

"Thailand is the land of smiles: In england, you might have a hundred or so facial expressions, including a smile, a frown, a straight face, a trustworthy face... With a Brit you'll generally know what is what.

In thailand, you'll often see a hundred different smiles. a smile for happiness, a smile for a frown, a smile for a straight face, etc...

Until you can learn to decode them, take care."

[SiamSquare123]

americans are like the children of the expat population.

[present]

Never mind that is typical German . When I am in Chiang Mai ,I never visit European bars or restaurants or clubs for that matter. I am not intrested in that at all, but I guess this kind of people have no intrest in Thai culture, just the ladys to a certain degree.Somethimes I wonder what they do in Thailand.If I can't live without my own background or culture I would stay at home(Belgium).

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background. English speakers meeting up in places with names like Dave's Bar or the Dogs <deleted>, whilst the German speakers congregate in Alt Heidelberg, Wunderbar or whatever. The more expats there are, the more outspoken this phenomenon gets. In a place like for instance Pattaya there are places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans, that nobody from northern Germany would even think about going in there. There will be also places then where only a minor language like Dutch or Danish is spoken. For a long time I lived in one of the major beach resorts, still go there every year. The two biggest groups of expats there are the English speakers and the German speakers, contact between the two groups is very limited. Strange that people move half way around the globe in order to settle in kind of a bubble which is populated by their fellow countrymen, or at least people who speak the same language. There are extreme examples, like the German or Austrian restaurant owner who has been in Thailand 20 years already. He doesn't speak Thai, and he even hardly speaks English. He is speaking German with his customers all the time, and all the communication with the outside world, like government institutions, and even with the staff, is handled by his Thai wife with whom he communicates somehow.

[mrtoad]

Never mind that is typical German . When I am in Chiang Mai ,I never visit European bars or restaurants or clubs for that matter. I am not intrested in that at all, but I guess this kind of people have no intrest in Thai culture, just the ladys to a certain degree.Somethimes I wonder what they do in Thailand.If I can't live without my own background or culture I would stay at home(Belgium)

[/indent]

A broad sweeping statement, people who live here either work or are retired. Why does it matter where they choose to drink or with whom? Because they choose to drink in a bar with other Franags that means that they are here for the ladies? What absolute BS.

I have a variety of friends from different countries including Thais. I socialise with people becasue I enjoy their company. I drink in certain bars becasue I like the place.

Maybe, I do socialise with some of my Farang friends more, but that is because we have a lot more things in common. It doesn't mean that I am not ignorent of Thai culture and it certainly shouldn't mean that I should stay at home (UK).

[Fred Sanford]

the thing with situations in bars etc is that you dont know the background to the people in then when you first see them. i mean, lets say someone lives in the boonies somewhere. they get relatively little contact with people from their own country who they can share jokes with, talk about current affairs, footy, etc. so they go to the next big town for a few days so that they can have a touch of 'normailty' for a while. sure he/she would be excited about being with like minded folk, and as a result may get a little loud due to the excitement.

but it doesnt mean that they associate with their countrymen all the time. it may just be an occasional thing.

I think this might be different to what the OP is referring to. I think he's talking about BKK and Pattaya residents who for them, this is a way of life day in day out

[Fred Sanford]

Personally, I like mingling and mixing and matching my friends and social life, nonetheless. Those that I trust more, will often be those of British descent.

But I'd also have nights out with my thai friends, guatemalan friends, whereever depending on where I've lived.

When I ran the bar in Guatemala, there'd usually be (the regulars) the one or two english expats, a couple of americans, a couple of canadians, and sevreal guatemalans. The owner was Brazilian. But yeah, I'd generally have more trust in the Brits/

That just might be due to the fact that I can read them better. I know that what I see in their face and in their eyes is something I understand. Some cultures have differences like that.

Take many (Yes, I'm going to generalise) Thai's. I've loved a few and liked a lot. I trust several of the Thai people that I've gotten to know well.

But it's like I was told once.

"Thailand is the land of smiles: In england, you might have a hundred or so facial expressions, including a smile, a frown, a straight face, a trustworthy face... With a Brit you'll generally know what is what.

In thailand, you'll often see a hundred different smiles. a smile for happiness, a smile for a frown, a smile for a straight face, etc...

Until you can learn to decode them, take care."

Dude

I wanna hang in Guatemala with u. I love those dudes and speak fluent espanol

[canadiangirl]

You forgot to mention the French! I'm French-Canadian, and whenever I've encountered any French people in LOS, and surrounding countries (especially Laos) -- they've greeted me with open arms. I think this is because French people feel lonely abroad amongst Thais and English-speaking farang. :-P I've had some awesome times with French expats in Vientiane -- getting amazing restaurant recommendations, the best wines (I met a couple whose family has a vineyard in France), horseback-riding on the Mekong!

Personally, I like making friends with the "locals", but a little bit of familiarity is good sometimes. Even if your Thai is good -- I think it takes a long time for it to get good enough to have serious, in-depth conversations, not just "what are we going to eat?" Plus I think it's easier (and more appropriate) to vent about certain inevitable frustrations to your own countrywomen. Thais don't always know things like: how do I find women's shoes in a size 40 (ok, maybe ladyboys do :-P, where can I get a decent grilled-cheese sandwich?

[qwertz]

^

Well, CG, you write very good English for a Quebecoise and the the point you make is valid: the culture gap is far too wide.

If I buy clothes for my stepdaughter or son I can't talk German dress or shirt sizes to a Thai.

So I just rope in a passing Thai girl and say - her size.

It's not so easy with shoes either if you're looking for a 46, they keep pulling out 43s, my size.

These and the other posts are just a few of the reasons we seek out compatriots for company.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to party with Thais.

I don't care for their music, if they speak dialect I understand zilch and there's a fair risk I'll get stuck with the bill.

At least most farangs buy you a drink in return.

P.S. I only go to Thailand for the culture and spiritual ambience so I can't comment on the girls.

[canadiangirl]

^

I don't care for their music, if they speak dialect I understand zilch and there's a fair risk I'll get stuck with the bill.

Let us not forget the ever-present risk of partying with Thais, or really, any Asians: KARAOKE!

[qwertz]

And that music is enough to make a cat puke.

The last farang music I heard that was so bad was "Tiptoe through the tulips" from Tiny Tim.

[canadiangirl]

And that music is enough to make a cat puke.

The last farang music I heard that was so bad was "Tiptoe through the tulips" from Tiny Tim.

Hahahaha!

Barring karaoke (and even that, I'm joking, I don't really mind, it just makes me laugh), I'm down with sanuk, I love partying with Thais! Everyone is always buying me drinks and making toasts and trying to get me to eat noodles and out to have a good time! I'd much rather be in a bar full of drunk Thais than a bar full of drunk farangs in Bangkok, honestly -- it seems like drunk farangs are always trying to pick fights and get mad at the smallest thing -- no fun!

[UnknownPoster]

americans are like the children of the expat population.

???

Trying to get another American bashing thread going?

[geronimo]

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background. English speakers meeting up in places with names like Dave's Bar or the Dogs <deleted>, whilst the German speakers congregate in Alt Heidelberg, Wunderbar or whatever. The more expats there are, the more outspoken this phenomenon gets. In a place like for instance Pattaya there are places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans, that nobody from northern Germany would even think about going in there. There will be also places then where only a minor language like Dutch or Danish is spoken. For a long time I lived in one of the major beach resorts, still go there every year. The two biggest groups of expats there are the English speakers and the German speakers, contact between the two groups is very limited. Strange that people move half way around the globe in order to settle in kind of a bubble which is populated by their fellow countrymen, or at least people who speak the same language. There are extreme examples, like the German or Austrian restaurant owner who has been in Thailand 20 years already. He doesn't speak Thai, and he even hardly speaks English. He is speaking German with his customers all the time, and all the communication with the outside world, like government institutions, and even with the staff, is handled by his Thai wife with whom he communicates somehow.

This is common worldwide. I think it goes back to our basic instincts to mix with others who share similar cultural values and language. Just look at the Thais in other countries and you will see the same thing.

[Naam]

This German or Austrian restaurant owner just doesn't understand what he is depriving himself of. I feel sorry for him

he'll be very disappointed if he finds out

[canadiangirl]

^

Well, CG, you write very good English for a Quebecoise and the the point you make is valid: the culture gap

hahahaha -- thanks! I am impressed that you know the name for us French-Canadian girls!

As a funny side note, I recently found out that my own city, Montreal, is actually a destination for sex tourism. It was news to me. (Ok, please don't kick my ass mods -- I'm not suggesting anyone come here for that!) Yep, us French-Canadian girls are apparently (in)famous, and not just for trying to separate from the rest of Canada!

I just about died laughing. I even found a page doing a point-by-point comparison of Montreal vs. Thailand as a "destination".