Should Hamas's Bloody Bet be Rewarded by the World?

[Jeff the Chef]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There are also very good reasons to not demonize Zionists or Zionism. That is being done more than usual lately. It's not really surprising. The very word Jew which technically is neutral is used by many as a slur. 

 

I think the opposite, Jews I have met throughout my life have all been great people, some are very religious, Orthodox, others had all the patter but didn't as far as I know go in for the whole Synagogue thing, others that squared the circle would back in the old country come round for a bacon sandwich on a weekend. different strokes for different folks.

Zionists on the other hand, those who wanted to go to Israel to live could really bring a downer to a great party of mixed people, with there views on people that didn't see the world their way.

Just my experience.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

I think the opposite, Jews I have met throughout my life have all been great people, some are very religious, Orthodox, others had all the patter but didn't as far as I know go in for the whole Synagogue thing, others that squared the circle would back in the old country come round for a bacon sandwich on a weekend. different strokes for different folks.

Zionists on the other hand, those who wanted to go to Israel to live could really bring a downer to a great party of mixed people, with there views on people that didn't see the world their way.

Just my experience.

You don't know the definition of Zionism. 

[Jeff the Chef]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You don't know the definition of Zionism. 

 

Are you being argumentative, or stating a fact, give us a clue?

[simple1]

On 6/5/2024 at 6:37 AM, Social Media said:

In a significant move, Spain, Ireland, and Norway have recognized a Palestinian state, bypassing the lengthy and complex peace negotiations that had been the foundation of any such recognition. This recognition comes despite the fact that there has never been a Palestinian state and that the territories in question are governed by two distinct factions, with Hamas controlling Gaza from underground. The question of whose state it would be remains unresolved.

 

The above misrepresents the policy of the three nations. It has been clearly stated they support recognition of a Palestinian State so long as Hamas are not in power in Gaza. For the moment they are suggesting the Palestinian Authority, though of course there will many requirements to be put in place for this to occur. In no way does the diplomatic move "reward" Hamas, quite the opposite..

Edited June 7 by simple1

[Bkk Brian]

11 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

The above misrepresents the policy of the three nations. It has been clearly stated they support recognition of a Palestinian State so long as Hamas are not in power in Gaza. For the moment they are suggesting the Palestinian Authority, though of course there will many requirements to be put in place for this to occur. In no way does the diplomatic move "reward" Hamas, quite the opposite..

Can you show me where they have all said that? 

 

This is Irelands official statement

 

Ireland recognises the State of Palestine

At a meeting of government today (May 28th) Ireland formally recognised the State of Palestine.

The Government noted the tragic backdrop to today’s announcement and again called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, the release of Israeli hostages and unhindered access for humanitarian aid.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/71936-ireland-recognises-the-state-of-palestine/

[Bkk Brian]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You don't know the definition of Zionism. 

Not many do apparently, Biden is a Zionist but still wants 2 states, many Zionists want 2 states. 

[FruitPudding]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:15 AM, placeholder said:

If Israel had responded differently maybe the world's reaction would be different too. Wholesale destruction in Gaza hasn't helped. And just look at what is going on in the West Bank. 

 

A bit hypocritical though, no?

 

It's okay for the West to have wars and destroy places, but Israel can't?

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Can you show me where they have all said that? 

 

This is Irelands official statement

 

Ireland recognises the State of Palestine

At a meeting of government today (May 28th) Ireland formally recognised the State of Palestine.

The Government noted the tragic backdrop to today’s announcement and again called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, the release of Israeli hostages and unhindered access for humanitarian aid.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/71936-ireland-recognises-the-state-of-palestine/

 

From Ireland's announcement:

 

Ireland recognises the State of Palestine in the spirit of peace in a coordinated announcement with our friends and colleagues in Spain and Norway.

 

All three countries have confirmed it's a coordinated Statement. Accordingly, all three support the following position from Spain...

 

“Furthermore, this decision reflects our absolute rejection of Hamas, a terrorist organization who is against the two-state solution,”

 

https://apnews.com/article/eu-palestinian-state-spain-israel-gaza-6efe351e53761befc2c539c535bbcc0c

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

From Ireland's announcement:

 

Ireland recognises the State of Palestine in the spirit of peace in a coordinated announcement with our friends and colleagues in Spain and Norway.

 

All three countries have confirmed it's a coordinated Statement. Accordingly, all three support the following position from Spain...

 

“Furthermore, this decision reflects our absolute rejection of Hamas, a terrorist organization who is against the two-state solution,”

 

https://apnews.com/article/eu-palestinian-state-spain-israel-gaza-6efe351e53761befc2c539c535bbcc0c

 

 

Excellent, thank you unfortunately however Hamas is still in control in Gaza and that's exactly why others places such as the UK have not gone down this route yet.

[Callmeishmael]

I have been in favor of a two state solution for many years (though for some reason the presidents of USA and Israel have never called up me up and asked for my opinion!).  However, I do believe that the new state of Palestine would almost immediately go through a civil war and might actually split into 2 or 3 defacto mini-states.

[simple1]

50 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Excellent, thank you unfortunately however Hamas is still in control in Gaza and that's exactly why others places such as the UK have not gone down this route yet.

 

A number of senior people in military and so on state removing Hamas militarily is not viable, but a diplomatic solution is the way to go. Have to see how events in Gaza unfold over the coming 6/12 months.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, simple1 said:

 

A number of senior people in military and so on state removing Hamas militarily is not viable, but a diplomatic solution is the way to go. Have to see how events in Gaza unfold over the coming 6/12 months.

In the meantime other countries refuse while terrorists are still holding hostages and in control. The right choice. 

[rickudon]

First, yes Hamas is an evil cynical organisation who believe the end justifies the means. After 20 years of futile peace negotiations all that has happened is a lot of Palestinians were dead, a lot of land was stolen from them by the Israeli government and the people lived under constant persecution. Any wonder that Hamas could gain converts?

I believe Hamas knew exactly how Israel would respond, so actually encouraged some atrocities against the Israeli citizens so this would happen.

And sure enough, Israel has stopped at nothing to punish the Palestinian people; not just in Gaza, but the west bank as well.

36.000 Palestinians dead (mainly women and children), starvation and destruction of civilian infrastructure used as a weapon of war, deliberate restrictions on aid supplies, and targeting journalists, aid workers and paramedics. In the west bank over 500 Palestinians have been killed, settlers allowed free reign to terrorise and destroy Palestinian villages, and another 11,000 hectares of land seized by Israel from the Palestinian owners.

 

Remembering that Gaza is just a small city state, approximately 1.5% of the population have been killed in 8 months. In the whole of WW2, UK suffered losses of about 1% of its population. And Gaza only has small arms and rockets to defend itself. Clearly a disproportionate response.

Modern drone technology allows you to identify individuals who could each be targeted to minimise civilian casualties. But most Israeli attacks have been carried out with bombs and rockets which flatten entire buildings. Israel doesn't care how many they kill, only restricted by how much bad press they get. 

Yeah, Genocide. You would think the Israeli government and people should know what genocide looks like.