Another Change In Retirement Visas

[coppywriter]

I went yesterday to renew my retirement visa and the rules have changed again.

Now they will only issue a one month extension, during the one month an immigration officer is supposed to visit you at your place or residence to check you really live there. Also they may want to see proof that the money you have in the bank (800,000 thb) actually came from abroad and that its being used to support your stay here. When they are satisfied they will issue the one year retirement visa. This was at BKK Immigration. The rule came into force 4 days ago.

This is my 3rd retirement visa. I am not married and I have reported every 90 days I have moved once and immigration were told of the change. The 800,000 thb did come from abroad and I have the required proof.

As we all know new rules come out from immigration on a more than regular basis and this is just another one. Oh and of course I had to pay 1,900 thb for the 1 month extention of stay which would not have been needed under the old rules of being issued a new visa on expiry of the old one. This means a lot of 1,900 thbs from all of us pensioners!!!!!!!!!

[Gumballl]

My buddha!!! So you are saying that it will cost you an additional 1900 baht per year to reside in Thailand? Just hang out on a street corner with a tin cup in your hand and maybe someone will donate to your cause.

All jokes aside, you must realize that 1900 baht is mere pocket change compared to what is wasted on other frivolous things (e.g. booze, smokes, etc.). Be fortunate that you are in Thailand and not retired in some boring country where it will cost you much more to live and you will not yield the same pleasures.

[Bizz]

Petergurling is stating a fact

[tropo]

My buddha!!! So you are saying that it will cost you an additional 1900 baht per year to reside in Thailand? Just hang out on a street corner with a tin cup in your hand and maybe someone will donate to your cause.

All jokes aside, you must realize that 1900 baht is mere pocket change compared to what is wasted on other frivolous things (e.g. booze, smokes, etc.). Be fortunate that you are in Thailand and not retired in some boring country where it will cost you much more to live and you will not yield the same pleasures.

That's one of the traps of living in SE Asia - thinking it's only a few thousand baht here and a few thousand baht there...and before long, because you've taken your baht too lightly you find out you've spent a small fortune. Not everyone wastes money on booze, smokes, etc. Personally I never waste money.

If you add these seeminly "pocket change" additional costs to the 15 - 25% drop in exchange rates (depending on your home currency) it can add up to a huge impact on retirees...especially if they have dependents in Thailand.

Quite suddenly Thailand has become 25% less liveable compared to the same time last year for many retirees.

[cm-happy]

I'm surprised the THAI VISAS gurus did not pick up on this and report it as a new thread.

Not sure what the implications are.

Non-imm "O" holder needs to get 12 monthly extentions @ 1900 b a month? until the annual extension expires?

In all the years I've been here on a type "O" non-imm visa, I've never had a immigration officer visit to see if I actually live here, nor have they even mentioned to me this requirement or made an appointment to visit. At least not in Chiang Mai

Is this new requirement specific to BKK?

If this is country wide, seems like they are eliminating the annual non-imm "O" & replacing it with a monthly.

[Krub]

I'm surprised the THAI VISAS gurus did not pick up on this and report it as a new thread.

Not sure what the implications are.

Non-imm "O" holder needs to get 12 monthly extentions @ 1900 b a month? until the annual extension expires?

In all the years I've been here on a type "O" non-imm visa, I've never had a immigration officer visit to see if I actually live here, nor have they even mentioned to me this requirement or made an appointment to visit. At least not in Chiang Mai

Is this new requirement specific to BKK?

If this is country wide, seems like they are eliminating the annual non-imm "O" & replacing it with a monthly.

If I read it correctly the OP received a 1 month 'under consideration' extension until immigration checks the file and he then would get the usual 1 year extension ?

Similar to the 'Thai wife' extension which was under consideration for several times before finaly approved.

It would mean more trips to immigration, more fees to pay more careful planning for travel as you need to appear in person for the several under consideration and the final stamps.

If itis anew rule and not an exception, it looks again like a way for immigration to try and stop or catch the loopholes guys by double checking the submited application documents (bank statement, income letter, stated adress, etc)

As far as the adress is concerned, your Embassy never checks where you actualy live but deliver the adress confirmation letter.It is then used as such by immigration. Thisleaves open a big whole as nobody actually checks that you live at that adress. It would be so simple to have us register at the local amphur (as it is done in other foreign countries where I live/have lived) that would makeit 'sure' as to where you actualy live. The90 day adress report was a vague try at doing this but 'by post' not very effective.

The whole visa extension rules/requirements is long overdue for a real re-think on the Thai authorities part to stop this cat.mouse game of trying to stop loopholes used by the applicants with quick fix requirements one after the other

Edited July 28, 2007 by Krub

[lopburi3]

There is only one TM.7 fee regardless of how many under considerations are used. This will not change the extension application fee.

[gzu88bv]

...... it looks again like a way for immigration to try and stop or catch the loopholes guys by double checking the submited application documents (bank statement, income letter, stated adress, etc)

As far as the adress is concerned, your Embassy never checks where you actualy live but deliver the adress confirmation letter.It is then used as such by immigration. Thisleaves open a big whole as nobody actually checks that you live at that adress. It would be so simple to have us register at the local amphur (as it is done in other foreign countries where I live/have lived) that would makeit 'sure' as to where you actualy live.

That is true.

Swiss Embassy recently issued me a Certificate of Nationality and Registration, which I needed for the Thai driver licence.

And among my data they said e.g. the following:

“According to his own statement, he is residing at the following address:”

On one hand understandable, because I did not have the chance as yet of any of the Swiss Embassy staff visiting me up here in Isaan and on the other hand Thailand is changing fast to western bureaucratic standards.

[gdhm]

I'm surprised the THAI VISAS gurus did not pick up on this and report it as a new thread.

Not sure what the implications are.

Non-imm "O" holder needs to get 12 monthly extensions @ 1900 b a month? until the annual extension expires?

In all the years I've been here on a type "O" non-imm visa, I've never had a immigration officer visit to see if I actually live here, nor have they even mentioned to me this requirement or made an appointment to visit. At least not in Chiang Mai

Is this new requirement specific to BKK?

If this is country wide, seems like they are eliminating the annual non-imm "O" & replacing it with a monthly.

If I read it correctly the OP received a 1 month 'under consideration' extension until immigration checks the file and he then would get the usual 1 year extension ?

Similar to the 'Thai wife' extension which was under consideration for several times before Finlay approved.

It would mean more trips to immigration, more fees to pay more careful planning for travel as you need to appear in person for the several under consideration and the final stamps.

If it is a new rule and not an exception, it looks again like a way for immigration to try and stop or catch the loopholes guys by double checking the submitted application documents (bank statement, income letter, stated address, etc)

As far as the address is concerned, your Embassy never checks where you actually live but deliver the address confirmation letter.It is then used as such by immigration. This leaves open a big whole as nobody actually checks that you live at that address. It would be so simple to have us register at the local amphur (as it is done in other foreign countries where I live/have lived) that would make it 'sure' as to where you actually live. The 90 day address report was a vague try at doing this but 'by post' not very effective.

The whole visa extension rules/requirements is long overdue for a real re-think on the Thai authorities part to stop this cat.mouse game of trying to stop loopholes used by the applicants with quick fix requirements one after the other

Hi Krub,

True, but not all of us expect or want to be spending the whole year worrying and planning and obtaining documents for the next necessary requirement or visit to Immigration (by which time the rules may well have changed and tightened yet again).

The EU are lovers of documentation and are much affected by illegal immigrants BUT they do most of the work when you FIRST TIME apply for a Visa (or residency often easier to obtain than in Thailand). Once they accept you then renewal is usually a simple and no real bother issue.

Spain for instance grants a residency/right to work permit subject to rules (NOTHING like as swinging as Thailand's hard to achieve rules) for one year (there is NO requirement to report your address every 90 days). At renewal "if you have not been a bad boy/girl" you get a 2 year one, then a 3 years, then a 5yr one (max). No reporting or anything is required until next renewal.

Sorry, but IMHO feel if the Thai Visa loopholes are so bad (which they probably were) that Thailand should have corrected them long ago and upon FIRST application. Renewals should be much more of a [b]"nothing bad or Visa violations has been reported, you still have funds" OK here is your next year's Visa. See you next year. No need to report address every 90 days BUT a change of address MUST be reported immediately".[/b]

Someone has equated extra costs to a few beers. Sure if you look at ONE requirement in isolation, but if the 2 latest rules prove to be true (as expected) we are talking a few days visit to BKK for those not living on the doorstep of BKK, travel, hotel and taxi costs, translation costs, Embassy letter costs, revisit costs to the Immigration Office a month after Visa renewal application, visits or postings for 90 day reporting (some are saying Nong Khai for instance, is asking for personal 90 reporting visits - nightmare!).

This ALL adds up to a lot of beers (if that is what you spend you money on anyway). I personally spend my income on my family mostly not beers or social activities. Even if spending some of you money on beers that is no doubt for personal pleasure and by choice and NOT because you have no choice.

Finally even if the cost of extra and new immigration requirements is no considered a problem/h to ask JUST HOW MUCH of our retirement, marriage, looking after our families time do any of us wish to spend each year continuously proving we are good boys/girls in order for us to be permitted to stay in Thailand (often with our families). When we succeed it is but for one year ONLY before it starts all over again often with even more extra rules.

I will as ALWAYS do ALL asked of me by Thai Immigration and Thailand in order to look after myself and my family and be permitted to stay here and to obey the laws of the land. I may have faults (nobody is perfect) but masochistic tendencies is not one of them and being a long term stayer in Thailand is beginning to feel like I am acquiring those tendencies fast .

Regards, Dave

[R123]

Would the moderators please ask the likes of Thai Immigration and SunBelt Asia etc to seek clarification/confirmation re the correctness /accuracy or otherwise of this post re retirement rule changes.

Doubtful in the extreme.

No one has heard of this until now, and maybe unless it can be properly substantiated it should not be allowed here.

Thank you.

[OneeyedJohn]

. When we succeed it is but for one year ONLY before it starts all over again often with even more extra rules.

Couldn't agree more Dave.

I've been on the marriage visa for the last 5 years without incident. Someone told me after 2/3 years my applications would become much easier to process. It never really did, as one always had the feeling each time you went to Immigartion for the extension you were right back at the beginning and were completely at the mercy of their interpretation of the rules ( read :- moving goalposts ).

I'm in the mire with my extension this year ( reasons not relevant here ...see my most recent topic ) and have been running around since April trying to get things sorted.

It is very wearying getting documents to prove that those original documents are genuine and then getting the proof of the proof all certified and translated.

Whatever happened to the concept of providing a passport as suitable proof of identity?

[lopburi3]

Would the moderators please ask the likes of Thai Immigration and SunBelt Asia etc to seek clarification/confirmation re the correctness /accuracy or otherwise of this post re retirement rule changes.

Doubtful in the extreme.

No one has heard of this until now, and maybe unless it can be properly substantiated it should not be allowed here.

Thank you.

This is one persons experience and we have no reason to doubt it was as he reported. We will not know if it is a general change until others report there experience. This post will hopefully increase those that will post there current experience.

If we were to censor each post that people have had exceptions to previous rule the forum would be useless. There are exceptions and there are changes that are not announced. We learn by experience and in many cases the confirmation is only available well after the fact.

[R123]

With respect lopburi3 I do not, and did not, necessarily doubt the experience of the poster, but I do doubt the apparent statement of fact that this is a change in the retirement rules.

If so then easy for you to get the immigration or Sun Belt Asia to confirm one one or other.

It may be the person is being particularly scrutinised by immigration not involving a rule change.

It is nonsense to say wait for others to report to discern if it is so.

You call yourself Thai Visa and you and your sponsor ought to know what the rules are, and when and if they are changed.

Have a nice day.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

My buddha!!! So you are saying that it will cost you an additional 1900 baht per year to reside in Thailand? Just hang out on a street corner with a tin cup in your hand and maybe someone will donate to your cause.

All jokes aside, you must realize that 1900 baht is mere pocket change compared to what is wasted on other frivolous things (e.g. booze, smokes, etc.). Be fortunate that you are in Thailand and not retired in some boring country where it will cost you much more to live and you will not yield the same pleasures.

That's one of the traps of living in SE Asia - thinking it's only a few thousand baht here and a few thousand baht there...and before long, because you've taken your baht too lightly you find out you've spent a small fortune. Not everyone wastes money on booze, smokes, etc. Personally I never waste money.

If you add these seeminly "pocket change" additional costs to the 15 - 25% drop in exchange rates (depending on your home currency) it can add up to a huge impact on retirees...especially if they have dependents in Thailand.

Quite suddenly Thailand has become 25% less liveable compared to the same time last year for many retirees.

There follows a comment from an offline friend I sent the OP's comment to.  Pretty good, he's a semin "old hand" here, ISB grad 1964.

Mac

What's wrong with this picture (aside from the original guy's misunderstanding re the Bht1,900, which is the annual extension fee as Alan corrects) is that the comments sound like this is a western country where every case within every category is treated with consistency -- a country where there is rule of law, in other words. Thankfully (sometimes), and frustratingly (occasionally), that is not the case in this great Kingdom. Identical twins with precisely the same circumstances appearing before the same official, one after the other, can find their cases handled completely differently. Throw in such vagaries as time of day, specific official involved, immigrations branch location, etc., and you have a kaleidoscope of possible outcomes.

Aside from the most basic assurances -- you do have to renew annually, for example -- there is very little that can be shared amongst petitioners apart from the universal survival advice (USA): keep smiling; know your place as a sub-human; keep your internal expectations low and your external gratefulness high; and always remember that success is worth whatever patience must be expended in the effort. ###

[naka]

With respect lopburi3 I do not, and did not, necessarily doubt the experience of the poster, but I do doubt the apparent statement of fact that this is a change in the retirement rules.

If so then easy for you to get the immigration or Sun Belt Asia to confirm one one or other.

It may be the person is being particularly scrutinised by immigration not involving a rule change.

It is nonsense to say wait for others to report to discern if it is so.

You call yourself Thai Visa and you and your sponsor ought to know what the rules are, and when and if they are changed.

Have a nice day.

Right you are sir !

And since the collective 'they' do not seem at all perturbed about this

situation, might I suggest that your goodself nip down smartly to immigration

at the very first opportunity and get back to us smartlike with the answers.

Naka.

[Krub]

With respect lopburi3 I do not, and did not, necessarily doubt the experience of the poster, but I do doubt the apparent statement of fact that this is a change in the retirement rules.

If so then easy for you to get the immigration or Sun Belt Asia to confirm one one or other.

It may be the person is being particularly scrutinised by immigration not involving a rule change.

It is nonsense to say wait for others to report to discern if it is so.

You call yourself Thai Visa and you and your sponsor ought to know what the rules are, and when and if they are changed.

Have a nice day.

If the ruleswere clear and applied unilateraly there would be no need for this forum

Welcome to Thailand ! and to Thai Visa

[gmac]

Would the moderators please ask the likes of Thai Immigration and SunBelt Asia etc to seek clarification/confirmation re the correctness /accuracy or otherwise of this post re retirement rule changes.

Doubtful in the extreme.

No one has heard of this until now, and maybe unless it can be properly substantiated it should not be allowed here.

Thank you.

This is one persons experience and we have no reason to doubt it was as he reported. We will not know if it is a general change until others report there experience. This post will hopefully increase those that will post there current experience.

If we were to censor each post that people have had exceptions to previous rule the forum would be useless. There are exceptions and there are changes that are not announced. We learn by experience and in many cases the confirmation is only available well after the fact.

Copied below is the current regulation regarding renewal of a Retirement Visa on the NEW Pattaya Immigration website. There appear to be a couple of changes such as a requirement for a Thai translation of evidence of pension as well as the reintroduction of the Health Certificate which I didn't need this year - No mention of a visit to confirm address.

Application for further stay to spend the remainder of life in the

Kingdom of Thailand

Required Documents

1. Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. 4 cm. X 6 cm. Photograph

4. 1,900 baht application fee

5. Financial Evidence:

1. Bank account pass-book, bank statement

2. Evidence showing reception of pension accompanied with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate of the country paying the pension

3. Evidence presenting other sources of income or evidence of money transferred from overseas

6. In cases of having dependents (husband / wife, children), the applicant must provide evidence indicating their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the non-Thai citizens.

7. Health Certificate for those who apply for further stay after Nov. 14, 2002.

8. The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents, if necessary

Applications Consideration

1. A foreign national must be older than 50 years old.

2. Not be a prohibit person.

3. Financial documents state one of the following

1. A deposite of 800,000 baht at least , or

2. A minimum income of 65,000 baht a month , or

3. A deposite pluses (monthly income x 12) not less than 800,000 baht.

4. The Health Certificate must indicate that the applicant does not have the following serious conditions:

1. Leprosy

2. Turberculosis, TB

3. Elephantiasis, Filariasis

4. Drug addiction

5. Alcoholism

6. Syphilis

[gdhm]

Would the moderators please ask the likes of Thai Immigration and SunBelt Asia etc to seek clarification/confirmation re the correctness /accuracy or otherwise of this post re retirement rule changes.

Doubtful in the extreme.

No one has heard of this until now, and maybe unless it can be properly substantiated it should not be allowed here.

Thank you.

This is one persons experience and we have no reason to doubt it was as he reported. We will not know if it is a general change until others report there experience. This post will hopefully increase those that will post there current experience.

If we were to censor each post that people have had exceptions to previous rule the forum would be useless. There are exceptions and there are changes that are not announced. We learn by experience and in many cases the confirmation is only available well after the fact.

Copied below is the current regulation regarding renewal of a Retirement Visa on the NEW Pattaya Immigration website. There appear to be a couple of changes such as a requirement for a Thai translation of evidence of pension as well as the reintroduction of the Health Certificate which I didn't need this year - No mention of a visit to confirm address.

Application for further stay to spend the remainder of life in the

Kingdom of Thailand

Required Documents

1. Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. 4 cm. X 6 cm. Photograph

4. 1,900 baht application fee

5. Financial Evidence:

1. Bank account pass-book, bank statement

2. Evidence showing reception of pension accompanied with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate of the country paying the pension

3. Evidence presenting other sources of income or evidence of money transferred from overseas

6. In cases of having dependents (husband / wife, children), the applicant must provide evidence indicating their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the non-Thai citizens.

7. Health Certificate for those who apply for further stay after Nov. 14, 2002.

8. The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents, if necessary

Applications Consideration

1. A foreign national must be older than 50 years old.

2. Not be a prohibit person.

3. Financial documents state one of the following

1. A deposite of 800,000 baht at least , or

2. A minimum income of 65,000 baht a month , or

3. A deposite pluses (monthly income x 12) not less than 800,000 baht.

4. The Health Certificate must indicate that the applicant does not have the following serious conditions:

1. Leprosy

2. Turberculosis, TB

3. Elephantiasis, Filariasis

4. Drug addiction

5. Alcoholism

6. Syphilis

Forgive me for saying so, but after taking a look at the Pattaya webpage mentioned the information enclosed (and mentioned above) seems to be an EXACT "cut & paste" from the Main Thailand Immigration Bureau website (offline at present for some reason) entry. Event the colours and layout are identical to those used on the Head Office Bureau website AND I believe the info. is what THEY have been publishing on their sight for some time WELL BEFORE the 1st October 2006 changes.

I have often mentioned on ThiaVisa that I cannot understand why the site was not updated to reflect changes made from 1st Oct 2006. Maybe they are now and that is why the website is currently down.

Maybe somebody else would like to confirm or refute my belief that the Pattaya site is inadvertently relying on outdated info. as I believe.

Kind Regards,

Dave

[Maestro]

Maybe somebody else would like to confirm or refute my belief that the Pattaya site is inadvertently relying on outdated info. as I believe.

Definitely using outdated information, but there is nothing to worry. The “Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549” clearly states: “This Order shall supersede all other rules, regulations and orders that are contrary to or contradict this Order.” For the original Thai text of 606/2549, see here.

--------------

Maestro

[R123]

Well done Maestro as at last someone who can state matters accurately.

Page 10 in particular of the Order you mention gives (in my opinion and knowledge) the current and correct rules for "retirees" getting a 1 year permission to stay by way of 800,000 baht in a bank account.

In essence the 800,000 needs to be in a Thai Bank account for 3 months prior to applying; applicant over 50 and other formalities, but no medical certificate needed.

The original poster at best got his "facts" wildly wrong, and at worst he is being intentionally mischievous.

Indeed most of his assertions appear to me to be incorrect and misleading.

No reason for immigration to visit your home, as that has nothing to do with confirming the geuineness of the money in the bank.He gets it wrong over the fee to be paid and also the ludicrous suggestion immigration seek to investigate the usage or whatever of the 800,000 etc.

A further example of the nonsence of the original post is he gives a similar story under the topic "changes to retirement vis'a heralded" and further embelished the story(absent in the post on this site):

"however I was dismayed at the reply by the Immigration Officer to my question as to WHY? was the extension needed, The reply was:'its a matter of national security but personally I think its stupid'.

(see # 94 of that link)

Well this is fantasy as no government official would speak like this, and the phraseology is that of a farang, not a Thai.

[Krub]

Well done Maestro as at last someone who can state matters accurately.

Page 10 in particular of the Order you mention gives (in my opinion and knowledge) the current and correct rules for "retirees" getting a 1 year permission to stay by way of 800,000 baht in a bank account.

In essence the 800,000 needs to be in a Thai Bank account for 3 months prior to applying; applicant over 50 and other formalities, but no medical certificate needed.

The original poster at best got his "facts" wildly wrong, and at worst he is being intentionally mischievous.

Indeed most of his assertions appear to me to be incorrect and misleading.

No reason for immigration to visit your home, as that has nothing to do with confirming the geuineness of the money in the bank.He gets it wrong over the fee to be paid and also the ludicrous suggestion immigration seek to investigate the usage or whatever of the 800,000 etc.

A further example of the nonsence of the original post is he gives a similar story under the topic "changes to retirement vis'a heralded" and further embelished the story(absent in the post on this site):

"however I was dismayed at the reply by the Immigration Officer to my question as to WHY? was the extension needed, The reply was:'its a matter of national security but personally I think its stupid'.

(see # 94 of that link)

Well this is fantasy as no government official would speak like this, and the phraseology is that of a farang, not a Thai.

I agree htat we will have to see how it goes and if others report the same 'change' of getting a 1 month under consideration stampinstead of immediately a 1 year stamp.

If the rules were applied as they are written we would not need to have 1/2 the discussions we have here.

It is becasue the application of the writtten rules are interpreted and applied differently by different immigration offices and within offices by different offficers that it gets somewhat challenging at times.

WHy don't you post your real life experience with immigration so we can all benefit

[mahjongguy]

Tomorrow I will go to Suan Phlu for my 2nd retirement extension. I have had more than 800,000 on account for more than three months.

I am taking:

- one photograph (plus another for the re-entry permit)

- color copies of all relevant passport pages

- my updated bank book

- an ATM balance slip less than an hour old

- standard letter from my bank, written last week

- copies of the 3 wire transfers I have made since January 1

- seven months of bank statements

Just for fun I also have several rent receipts from my apartment, plus a copy of Police Order 606 / 2549.

I fully expect to breeze through.

Update tomorrow.

[lopburi3]

I would also have a copy of your arrival card. Believe they will want that with the passport copies.

[wca01]

Tomorrow I will go to Suan Phlu for my 2nd retirement extension. I have had more than 800,000 on account for more than three months.

You don't will face any problems. A lot of nonsense lately about "changing rules".

WCA

[mahjongguy]

I would also have a copy of your arrival card. Believe they will want that with the passport copies.

I included the page in my passport to which it is stapled, showing the arrival card number. The arrival stamp on the adjacent page is also visible.

I also included a copy of my most recent 90-day receipt, which is not kept in my passport.

All around the world, a bureaucrat's #1 priority is avoiding criticism from their peers and bosses (known in English as "CYA"). By arriving two weeks early, fully prepared and over-documented, I intend for this transaction to be "a piece of cake" for the immigration officer and myself.

Edited August 1, 2007 by mahjongguy

[theseveredhead]

i honestly do not know why you all bother.

[mahjongguy]

i honestly do not know why you all bother.

Bother with what?

[PeaceBlondie]

i honestly do not know why you all bother.

If you mean, why do we all bother getting our retirement visas extended each year, most of us do it because we love the country (in spite of its problems), we love living here (more or less), we don't want to go back home (even when we're told to by other farang), we have loved ones here (you know), and because it's worth the trouble.

[gdhm]

i honestly do not know why you all bother.

If you mean, why do we all bother getting our retirement visas extended each year, most of us do it because we love the country (in spite of its problems), we love living here (more or less), we don't want to go back home (even when we're told to by other farang), we have loved ones here (you know), and because it's worth the trouble.

Very well and accurately put on behalf of those that think like you and me PeaceBlondie .

I would add one thing that you did not mention.

.. and despite the inconsistency of interpretation of Visa regulations problems, we are NOT prepared to break (or try to) Thailand's Immigration and Visa laws by attempting to "disappear" like millions of "illegals" all over the World and no doubt tens of thousands within Thailand itself, as well.

Kind regards, Dave

[mahjongguy]

Here is my feedback as promised:

I went to Suan Phlu today at 9:30am. It was crowded and my ticket number was 30 down the queue. Sigh.

Two and a half hours later I reached the desk of a reasonably friendly lady. She looked through my documents, handed back the apartment rental receipts and the monthly bank statements. "No need."

She asked for the originals of my Wire TTRansfer Detail Reports. As best I could, I told her that these were what the bank gave me. "Not original". I understood her point. Because they are faxed from the bank's HQ wire desk to my home branch, they don't look official at all. In the end, she accepted them, but it was a close call. Going forward I will pay the bank to write a cover letter for each one, or at least get the bank to stamp them with a colorful and scribble something next to it in blue ink.

Then she told me I need to get copies of every page of my bankbook. Uh-oh. I should have seen that one coming. Off I fly across the street to the copy shop and back.

When I returned in 4 minutes flat she was looking at my file and at my submitted photo; the pictures were identical. Cheapish, I had used a leftover pic from last year's renewal. Dolt!

I tried to weasel: "I'm still the same handsome guy". Wink. "Hurry!", she said.

This time I ran across the roofs of passing tuk-tuks like one of K-banks green supermen. Back in 5 minutes (really!) with fresh pics. But she's gone to lunch.

Forty minutes later she's back, glues in my photo, and hand the package off to the reviewing officer, who grumbles at the wire transfers and hands me my passport.

Getting the Re-entry permit took a relatively relaxing 30 minutes.

All told, it was 4 hours and 10 minutes.

So, two screwups of my own and a close call due to the recent tightening.