Opinion sought.

[Scouse123]

Sheryl,

 

I do very much value your opinion on health matters.

 

I did check with Cigna and others and the health cover limits were far below Pacific Cross.

 

Pacific Cross have assured me that I am valued as a customer and there are no additional conditions being placed on my cover.

 

I am now 62.

 

I just paid them for Maxima Plus 47,000 with a 40,000 excess.

 

They have said verbally, and in email, that disputes arise when foreign nationals don't reveal the whole truth and then try to claim for pre-existing conditions.

 

Anyway, I've booked in to Bangkok Khonkaen for an annual medical this week as well, as cancer destroyed my family. 3 left out of eight.

 

I don't know all the answers, just prevention and early detection is better than cure.

 

 

 

 

[newbee2022]

On 7/15/2024 at 12:12 PM, Scouse123 said:

Sheryl,

 

I do very much value your opinion on health matters.

 

I did check with Cigna and others and the health cover limits were far below Pacific Cross.

 

Pacific Cross have assured me that I am valued as a customer and there are no additional conditions being placed on my cover.

 

I am now 62.

 

I just paid them for Maxima Plus 47,000 with a 40,000 excess.

 

They have said verbally, and in email, that disputes arise when foreign nationals don't reveal the whole truth and then try to claim for pre-existing conditions.

 

Anyway, I've booked in to Bangkok Khonkaen for an annual medical this week as well, as cancer destroyed my family. 3 left out of eight.

 

I don't know all the answers, just prevention and early detection is better than cure.

 

 

 

 

Is there a question ❓ 

[wombat]

19 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Is there a question ❓ 

He thought she was different?

[simon43]

[quote]

...

They have said verbally, and in email, that disputes arise when foreign nationals don't reveal the whole truth and then try to claim for pre-existing conditions.

...

[/quote]

 

So did you disclose all pre-existing conditions (however minor), previous accidents, illnesses etc?

[jimn]

On 7/15/2024 at 6:12 AM, Scouse123 said:

Sheryl,

 

I do very much value your opinion on health matters.

 

I did check with Cigna and others and the health cover limits were far below Pacific Cross.

 

Pacific Cross have assured me that I am valued as a customer and there are no additional conditions being placed on my cover.

 

I am now 62.

 

I just paid them for Maxima Plus 47,000 with a 40,000 excess.

 

They have said verbally, and in email, that disputes arise when foreign nationals don't reveal the whole truth and then try to claim for pre-existing conditions.

 

Anyway, I've booked in to Bangkok Khonkaen for an annual medical this week as well, as cancer destroyed my family. 3 left out of eight.

 

I don't know all the answers, just prevention and early detection is better than cure.

 

 

 

 

Much easier if you tag @Sheryl she might see it then.

[Scouse123]

31 minutes ago, simon43 said:

[quote]

...

They have said verbally, and in email, that disputes arise when foreign nationals don't reveal the whole truth and then try to claim for pre-existing conditions.

...

[/quote]

 

So did you disclose all pre-existing conditions (however minor), previous accidents, illnesses etc?

 

Yes,

 

I did because I didn't want to leave the door open for any kind of refusal.

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

Is there a question ❓ 

 

Well, She heavily promotes international providers as opposed to local ones. I am saying the cover Cigna is offering for the same premium is way below Pacific Cross.

[Sheryl]

20 minutes ago, jimn said:

Much easier if you tag @Sheryl she might see it then.

There does not appear to be any question asked here.

[Presnock]

On 7/15/2024 at 12:12 PM, Scouse123 said:

Sheryl,

 

I do very much value your opinion on health matters.

 

I did check with Cigna and others and the health cover limits were far below Pacific Cross.

 

Pacific Cross have assured me that I am valued as a customer and there are no additional conditions being placed on my cover.

 

I am now 62.

 

I just paid them for Maxima Plus 47,000 with a 40,000 excess.

 

They have said verbally, and in email, that disputes arise when foreign nationals don't reveal the whole truth and then try to claim for pre-existing conditions.

 

Anyway, I've booked in to Bangkok Khonkaen for an annual medical this week as well, as cancer destroyed my family. 3 left out of eight.

 

I don't know all the answers, just prevention and early detection is better than cure.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely, lost 2 family members to cancer...always best from everything thing doctors have advised and everything that I have read on most cancers, the sooner they know it is there the better.  Nowadays with these new researchers (many from Harvard) have done wonders with diets defeating cancers and helping to prevent them too..suggest reading Dr. Willam Li's two best sellers (avalabe at a big book store in the Siam Square area...if you need the name of the store I can also provide that - have to check with my daughter.  My wife an I follow his suggestions based on actual studies.  You Tube also carrying many doctors and researches studies now based on health issues and foods.  Good luch with your physical and insurance issues.  Best to be safe with less stress.  

[Scouse123]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There does not appear to be any question asked here.

 

 

Question is, why would I want to move to an international provider offering far less cover for the same premium?

 

Pacific Cross have assured me they are happy with all my answers to health questions and honesty in answering pre-conditions and have said if the need arises to use insurance, they will be there for me.

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, Scouse123 said:

 

Well, She heavily promotes international providers as opposed to local ones. I am saying the cover Cigna is offering for the same premium is way below Pacific Cross.

Are you sure of that, and that you are not confusing baht with dollars?

 

 Cigna Global cover is US $1-2 Million (36,000,000 - 72,000,000 baht) depending on plan selected and cover is unlimited for their most expensive plan .

 

Pacific Cross's plans range from 270,000 baht to 50,000,000 baht

[Scouse123]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Absolutely, lost 2 family members to cancer...always best from everything thing doctors have advised and everything that I have read on most cancers, the sooner they know it is there the better.  Nowadays with these new researchers (many from Harvard) have done wonders with diets defeating cancers and helping to prevent them too..suggest reading Dr. Willam Li's two best sellers (avalabe at a big book store in the Siam Square area...if you need the name of the store I can also provide that - have to check with my daughter.  My wife an I follow his suggestions based on actual studies.  You Tube also carrying many doctors and researches studies now based on health issues and foods.  Good luch with your physical and insurance issues.  Best to be safe with less stress.  

 

I've lost five.

 

Three before they reached sixty.

 

I have managed to get to 62 years old.

 

It's a worry as we age, there are a lot less miles to go than those travelled, but I want to hang around as long as possible.

[Scouse123]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Are you sure of that, and that you are not confusing baht with dollars?

 

 Cigna Global cover is US $1-2 Million (36,000,000 - 72,000,000 baht) depending on plan selected and cover is unlimited for their most expensive plan .

 

Pacific Cross's plans range from 270,000 baht to 50,000,000 baht

 

 

I might be getting mixed up, I've been a bit fuddled lately, I'll check again.

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

A sarcastic flame has been removed

[Hamus Yaigh]

When I saw the thread title I opened the thread but my opinion was on another subject.

[newbee2022]

50 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

Well, She heavily promotes international providers as opposed to local ones. I am saying the cover Cigna is offering for the same premium is way below Pacific Cross.

Well, and then there are other insurances she doesn't know much about actually.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

Pacific Cross have assured me they are happy with all my answers to health questions and honesty in answering pre-conditions and have said if the need arises to use insurance, they will be there for me.

 

It is one thing to satisfy an insurer to the extent that they will issue you a policy, but it is an entirely different matter to satisfy an insurer to the point that they will pay a  large claim.

 

Ask the underwriter to put into writing, in the form of an endorsement to the policy, that they waive their right to request or obtain any further medical information from you or any of the medical service providers that may have treated you. This would be the real test of whether they are satisfied with the declaration you provided with your proposal form.  I very much doubt any insurer would do this.

 

Many people rely upon their memory and what they think they know or understand about their medical history. Unfortunately, we often forget things, especially if they seem unimportant to us, or perhaps the doctor did not discuss the full implications of our test results with us. I'm sure that the medical records of many of us have doctors' notes, test results and other information that we are not aware of and that may give cause for an insurer to allege intentional non-disclosure. In my opinion, the only way to be reasonably sure that we have fulfilled our duty of disclosure, and not risk potential denial of a claim or voiding of a policy, is to submit full medical records going back as far as possible.

 

The Thai Civil and Commercial Code allows an insurer to obtain an insured's medical history during the first five years they have been providing coverage. Once past five years, the insurer can't go back and request further info in order to deny a claim or void a policy. Within that timeframe, they're within their rights to do so and almost certainly will if presented with a significant claim.

 

 

 

 

[Presnock]

50 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I've lost five.

 

Three before they reached sixty.

 

I have managed to get to 62 years old.

 

It's a worry as we age, there are a lot less miles to go than those travelled, but I want to hang around as long as possible.

couldn't agree more - I'm 77 now...understand your worries...my brother in law now 78, lost all the male members of his family 38-43 (father/3 brothers) and he opted to exercise extra his whole life and is still with us, now though he as extra stress as wife(sister) suffering from dementia onset and niece just had a stroke in her 50's  - food science making great discoveries today about health issues and how lifestyle can affect diet and health.  Causes of all the major killers (from health issues) are now being traced to diets.  Beware sugar, red meat and ultra processed foods.  Just saying, not advising anyone to change their life, but do advise folks to read up on the latest health issues that affect all of us and our families.  As I mentioned, best of luck to you and yours!

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Cigna's offshore policies are usually denominated in US dollars and have a lifetime limit of $1 million or more. Thai insurers typically offer lower limits, but these are usually annual limits and are topped back up on renewal, provided renewal is offered and the policyholder can pay the renewal premium.

 

In theory, it is possible to exhaust a lifetime limit whereas an annual limit could be indefinitely topped back up and provide higher amounts of cover over time. But this latter scenario is highly unlikely for a number of reasons.

[The Fugitive]

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

It is one thing to satisfy an insurer to the extent that they will issue you a policy, but it is an entirely different matter to satisfy an insurer to the point that they will pay a  large claim.

 

Ask the underwriter to put into writing, in the form of an endorsement to the policy, that they waive their right to request or obtain any further medical information from you or any of the medical service providers that may have treated you. This would be the real test of whether they are satisfied with the declaration you provided with your proposal form.  I very much doubt any insurer would do this.

 

Many people rely upon their memory and what they think they know or understand about their medical history. Unfortunately, we often forget things, especially if they seem unimportant to us, or perhaps the doctor did not discuss the full implications of our test results with us. I'm sure that the medical records of many of us have doctors' notes, test results and other information that we are not aware of and that may give cause for an insurer to allege intentional non-disclosure. In my opinion, the only way to be reasonably sure that we have fulfilled our duty of disclosure, and not risk potential denial of a claim or voiding of a policy, is to submit full medical records going back as far as possible.

 

The Thai Civil and Commercial Code allows an insurer to obtain an insured's medical history during the first five years they have been providing coverage. Once past five years, the insurer can't go back and request further info in order to deny a claim or void a policy. Within that timeframe, they're within their rights to do so and almost certainly will if presented with a significant claim.

Most helpful, thank you. I recently applied to Cigna Global and have exactly this fear. I have two pre-existing conditions; I emailed advising; 

 

1) Treatment for raised blood pressure in 1986 (155mm/Hg - Sys, 100mm/Hg - Dia). Normal pressure since with no treatment being required.

 

2) A/E admission in 2018 for low blood glucose (42mg/dl equiv. 2.3mmol/L). Full blood count test normal. No repetition.  

 

Could you advise if exclusions would apply?

 

Please would you attach a sample of your Medical Questionnaire?

 

In reply Cigna Global says; 

 

'Thank you for your email'.

 

'High blood pressure most of the time isn’t an issue if its well-controlled and for the low blood glucose level that would depend on the status of the condition itself'.

 

'We can complete the medical questionnaire over the phone it only takes 5 – 10 minutes'.

 

Somehow I can't quite believe that with history relating to hypertension and diabetes even though in the past and with no current issues that exclusions wouldn't apply?

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

11 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Most helpful, thank you. I recently applied to Cigna Global and have exactly this fear. I have two pre-existing conditions; I emailed advising; 

 

1) Treatment for raised blood pressure in 1986 (155mm/Hg - Sys, 100mm/Hg - Dia). Normal pressure since with no treatment being required.

 

2) A/E admission in 2018 for low blood glucose (42mg/dl equiv. 2.3mmol/L). Full blood count test normal. No repetition.  

 

Could you advise if exclusions would apply?

 

Please would you attach a sample of your Medical Questionnaire?

 

In reply Cigna Global says; 

 

'Thank you for your email'.

 

'High blood pressure most of the time isn’t an issue if its well-controlled and for the low blood glucose level that would depend on the status of the condition itself'.

 

'We can complete the medical questionnaire over the phone it only takes 5 – 10 minutes'.

 

Somehow I can't quite believe that with history relating to hypertension and diabetes even though in the past and with no current issues that exclusions wouldn't apply?

 

It is likely that you're speaking with someone at Cigna who works in customer relations or a similar position related to sales and will probably not be the person who actually reviews your proposal form and makes decisions regarding acceptance, pricing, and exclusions. That's why they say "high blood pressure usually isn't an issue......". They have to defer to the underwriter. Their job is to get you signed up with as little effort as possible. They probably won't make misrepresentations or intentionally tell untruths, but they will be trained not to give advice beyond describing their product.

 

A five to ten-minute phone interview may be sufficient to get an insurer to issue a policy, but I do not think that it would be sufficient to effect adequate disclosure to preclude a potential post-claim investigation by underwriters if a large claim were to be submitted, especially if you are getting older and may have age-related chronic conditions. I would want to submit actual medical records going back as far as possible to try to head off this possibility.

 

I don't know about Singapore's laws or regulations, but I would be a bit surprised if there weren't a law similar to Thailand's Civil and Commercial Code's law regarding disclosure. The onus is on the proposer to make full disclosure to the insurer. The fact that an insurer does not ask for additional information does not extinguish the proposer's obligation to disclose. Don't rely upon verbal assurances from a sales rep when filling out a proposal form. The proposer needs to fully disclose.

 

 

 

 

[The Fugitive]

8 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

It is likely that you're speaking with someone at Cigna who works in customer relations or a similar position related to sales and will probably not be the person who actually reviews your proposal form and makes decisions regarding acceptance, pricing, and exclusions. That's why they say "high blood pressure usually isn't an issue......". They have to defer to the underwriter. Their job is to get you signed up with as little effort as possible. They probably won't make misrepresentations or intentionally tell untruths, but they will be trained not to give advice beyond describing their product.

 

A five to ten-minute phone interview may be sufficient to get an insurer to issue a policy, but I do not think that it would be sufficient to effect adequate disclosure to preclude a potential post-claim investigation by underwriters if a large claim were to be submitted, especially if you are getting older and may have age-related chronic conditions. I would want to submit actual medical records going back as far as possible to try to head off this possibility.

 

I don't know about Singapore's laws or regulations, but I would be a bit surprised if there weren't a law similar to Thailand's Civil and Commercial Code's law regarding disclosure. The onus is on the proposer to make full disclosure to the insurer. The fact that an insurer does not ask for additional information does not extinguish the proposer's obligation to disclose. Don't rely upon verbal assurances from a sales rep when filling out a proposal form. The proposer needs to fully disclose.

Many thanks, most helpful. I have online access to my UK NHS test results (including blood pressure readings) going back to 1986. I'm guessing prior to that would be available on paper at my GP's surgery. What isn't there is the description of treatment given, name of drug, dose and period it was prescribed for. As you say, I need to provide this, plus hospital notes of my collapse in Thailand. Once again, I appreciate your most helpful information.

[jimn]

23 hours ago, Sheryl said:

There does not appear to be any question asked here.

The first post in the thread by @Scouse123was asking you for advice but didnt tag you.

[jerrymahoney]

23 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Cigna's offshore policies are usually denominated in US dollars and have a lifetime limit of $1 million or more.

This is from my CIGNA Global UK policy issued by CIGNA (Life) Belgium

 

The accompanying verbiage:

 

The overall medical benefit limit per year of insurance per member is
1000000 USD

 

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

21 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

This is from my CIGNA Global UK policy issued by CIGNA (Life) Belgium

 

The accompanying verbiage:

 

The overall medical benefit limit per year of insurance per member is
1000000 USD

 

 

 

 

Yes, Cigna (and others) may offer different products including ones that have an annual benefit limit.

[jerrymahoney]

3 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

Yes, Cigna (and others) may offer different products including ones that have an annual benefit limit.

But according to your wording, they 'usually' don't.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

25 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

But according to your wording, they 'usually' don't.

 

I was under the mistaken impression that their products were mostly lifetime benefit limits, but I have checked their Singapore website and you are indeed correct and their offerings have annual benefit limits.

 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[jerrymahoney]

3 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I have to admit that I'm not aware of all of Cigna's products. I had only seen their offering of a lifetime limit and assumed that this is what they usually offer. 

 

I suppose I should have worded my post a bit differently. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

OK -- and just to add I was generally pleased with CIGNA although I had no claims. The problem was when I moved to an area with no direct payment hospital and the way they chose to deal with that circumstance I found not acceptable.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Just now, jerrymahoney said:

OK -- and just to add I was generally please with CIGNA although I had no claims. The problem was when I moved to an area with no direct payment and the way they chose to deal with that circumstance I found not acceptable.

 

Cigna is usually one of the better ones, but if there are no direct payment options, that is a major drawback. 

 

 

[Sheryl]

52 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

Yes, Cigna (and others) may offer different products including ones that have an annual benefit limit.

Actually all the Cigna Global expat products I've seen have an annual limit. 

 

A US 1 mill lifetime limit would be bad cover, indeed.