As the threat of a larger conflict with Russia intensifies, several European nations are turning to conscription to bolster their defenses. This shift, once unthinkable, is a direct response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the subsequent increase in geopolitical tensions.

Before Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, many believed that a major war in Europe was unlikely. However, the conflict has prompted a reevaluation of military strategies and the need for conscription.

 

Robert Hamilton, head of Eurasia research at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, explained, “We are coming to the realization that we may have to adjust the way we mobilize for war and adjust the way we produce military equipment and recruit and train personnel.” Hamilton, who served as a US Army officer for 30 years, noted the gravity of the situation: “It is tragically true that here we are, in 2024, and we are grappling with the questions of how to mobilize millions of people to be thrown into a meatgrinder of a war potentially, but this is where Russia has put us.”

 

General Wesley Clark, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe, emphasized the urgency of the situation, stating that the invasion has forced NATO to rebuild its defenses and consider conscription as a key component of its strategy. “We’ve now got a war in Europe that we never thought we would see again,” said Clark, who led NATO forces during the Kosovo War. He added, “Whether this is a new Cold War or an emerging hot war is unclear, but it’s a very imminent warning to NATO that we’ve got to rebuild our defenses.” According to Clark, these efforts include conscription.

 

Countries like Latvia have already reintroduced compulsory military service. As of January 1, 2024, Latvian male citizens are required to enlist within 12 months of turning 18 or upon graduation. Arturs Pīlācis, a 20-year-old student, shared his perspective on the reintroduction of conscription in Latvia: “At first there was a lot of pushback. But ultimately, the need for a state defense service was clear. There wasn’t really an option where we can stand by and think things will go on as they were before because of the unprovoked aggression in Ukraine.” Norway, which has mandatory conscription for both men and women, announced plans to nearly double its defense budget and increase the number of conscripted soldiers, employees, and reservists. Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre remarked, “We need a defense that is fit for purpose in the emerging security environment.”

 

Germany, historically averse to militarization, is also reconsidering conscription. In another first since the Cold War, Germany updated its plan should conflict erupt in Europe, and Defense Minister Boris Pistorius presented a proposal for voluntary military service. “We must be ready for war by 2029,” Pistorius declared. Sean Monaghan, a visiting fellow in the Europe, Russia, and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, highlighted the significance of this shift: “We are seeing the debate now raging. And that’s the first step. This doesn’t happen overnight, it’s a big mental shift.”

 

Opinions on conscription vary across Europe. In Lithuania, where compulsory military service was reintroduced in 2015, some students support military initiatives without necessarily favoring conscription. Paulius Vaitiekus, president of Lithuania’s National Students’ Union, noted, “Since the country reintroduced compulsory military service in 2015 due to a changed geopolitical situation, about 3,500 to 4,000 Lithuanians between the ages of 18 and 26 are enlisted each year for a period of nine months.” Vaitiekus also mentioned that students have launched initiatives to send supplies to the Ukrainian frontlines. He observed, “There was a shift in the mindset of the youth towards being more active, although not necessarily through conscripting.”

 

NATO's new goal of having 300,000 personnel ready for rapid activation faces challenges, with European allies needing to find new ways to generate military personnel. While NATO has stated it has already met that goal, the EU has said its members would struggle. NATO relies on American forces to meet its target. European allies need to find new ways to generate personnel. Something has to give here. Another problem is that that target would only allow NATO to fight a relatively short conflict of up to six months, Monaghan added.

 

One possible solution is to look at models like Finland's, which maintains a large reserve force that can be quickly integrated into a small active military. Finland has the capacity to activate more than 900,000 reservists, with 280,000 military personnel being ready to respond immediately if needed. However, during peacetime, the Finnish Defence Forces employs only about 13,000 people, including civilian staff.

 

Hamilton, of the Foreign Policy Research Institute, noted, “Finland is a good example as its reserve force can be integrated into a very small active force.” Historically, Finland was “wedged” between NATO and the Soviet Union, aligned with neither, so needed to be able to defend itself alone. Norway and Sweden, NATO’s newest member, have similar models, both maintaining significant numbers of reservists, though not as many as Finland. Sweden, where conscription is now also gender-neutral, called up around 7,000 individuals in 2024. The number will rise to 8,000 in 2025, according to the Swedish Armed Forces.

 

Marinette Nyh Radebo, communications manager at the agency that helps test recruits and reports to the Ministry of Defense, explained the cultural shift in Sweden: “Since the start of the war in Ukraine, what we see is that both knowledge and the attitude have changed. Sweden has had conscription since 1901 so it’s really part of our culture in a way.” When the conscription was activated again, in the beginning, we said that conscription is good for your CV, for applying for a new job for example,” Radebo said. “But today our communication is more like, this is a duty that you have to do for Sweden.”

 

NATO has significantly transformed its collective defense since Russia's actions in Ukraine. The alliance has put in place comprehensive defense plans and increased its readiness. Farah Dakhlallah, a NATO spokesperson, stated, “Since 2014, NATO has undergone the most significant transformation in our collective defense in a generation. We have put in place the most comprehensive defense plans since the Cold War, with currently more than 500,000 troops at high readiness.” However, questions remain about NATO's ability to sustain a prolonged conflict.

 

While NATO allies “are definitely ready to fight tonight,” there is still a question of whether they are ready for a protracted war such as that in Ukraine, Monaghan said, pointing out there is still work to be done in a number of areas. Those include industrial capacity, defense spending and societal resilience – where the question of conscription would come in. The way military personnel are recruited and trained is a decision for individual nations, Dakhlallah said, adding: “Around a third of NATO members have some form of compulsory military service.” Some allies are weighing up conscription. However as an alliance we do not prescribe mandatory military service. The important thing is that allies continue to have capable armed forces to protect our territory and our populations.”

 

The geopolitical landscape has changed drastically, and NATO allies must adapt to these new threats. The situation is further complicated by Russia's hybrid warfare tactics, including cyberattacks, disinformation, and election interference. Monaghan noted, “In addition to the fighting in Ukraine, Russia has also launched a hybrid war across Europe, experts say, involving attacks on infrastructure, cyberattacks, disinformation, sabotage, election interference and the weaponization of migration. That has only become more aggressive. All of which is to say NATO allies face a very different geopolitical situation than they did over the last couple of decades.”

 

The upcoming US presidential election could also impact NATO's strategy. Former President Donald Trump has expressed views that could alter the alliance's approach to defense spending and cooperation. Trump has said he would encourage Russia to do “whatever the hell they want” to any NATO country that doesn’t meet the bloc’s defense spending guidelines.

 

General Clark highlighted the need for democratic societies to prepare for war, even if it is against their natural inclinations. He drew parallels to the “Greatest Generation” of World War II, suggesting that today's young people may face similar responsibilities. Clark stated, “I think there is a very good understanding among the military leaders of NATO that they must cooperate, and there is a desire to do that.

 

This year saw World War II veterans gather for D-Day commemorations, some possibly for the last time. Their descendants may now have to take on the kind of responsibility that it was hoped would not be needed again.” Clark continued, “I think young people in Europe and the US will come to realize that this generation, like the generation that fought WWII, it didn’t ask to be the ‘Greatest Generation,’ but the circumstances thrust that burden on them. In democracies, we don’t like to prepare for war, we don’t want to think about these things. However, I think people will respond to the circumstances that they see.”

 

As Europe grapples with the threat of a wider war with Russia, conscription is becoming a more viable option for many countries. The changing security environment requires nations to rethink their defense strategies and prepare for potential large-scale conflicts.

 

Credit: CNN 2024-07-24

 

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that the war could have been stopped or avoided .... but the 'leaders' in the west decided war is profitable.... 

 

if they want men to go die, politicians, send your sons and daughters or do it yourself

 

rather be in jail then to go die for the elite

 

nato broke the promises after the cold war / fall of the wall, to not go make new NATO members in the east...

Funny that the UN was created to prevent wars but had such a poor record that it went into other social work (where its record remains poor).

If people are to volunteer, the military needs to increase wages and skills training to professional levels. Thinking that conscription is a cheap way of populating the military leads to social problems later (read about how former servicemen are sleeping on the streets these days - and those are the volunteers).

 

Shocking piece of propaganda this little story about conscription.

 

Here's the deal: Russia has to be established as the Evil One.  That has been the case since at least 1917.  Now Russia's "incursion" into Ukraine (which Biden, using the word "incursion", more or less okayed) allows us to make more realistic the "threat" to the whole of Europe.

Next, make the young people of Europe believe in this threat.   Then train them to kill. 

Finally, when Europe, close to financial collapse and faced with riots, sends in the newly-trained conscript troops to "deal with" the breakdown in law and order. 

"But I thought we were supposed to be fighting Russia."  "Sorry mate, we've got to deal with all these domestic terrorists first."

 

 

Take the young and dumb, throw them into a caldron created by politicians who will never risk a hair on their own heads, and collect your "campaign contributions" from the corporations manufacturing weapons system which you've just made $1,000,000 from front-running the stocks of those corporations slated to receive billions in government funding from legislation you helped pass.

Sound about right?  Most 70+ year old veterans have already seen this show played over and over and over again - sorta like the 20th reboot of Beau Geste.  As General Smedley Butler so aptly stated, "War's A Racket."  That it is.    Provoked by the West for the benefit of Western corporations, stakeholders, and arms manufacturers.  The West doesn't have a clue how to make a profit though peaceful trade and non-military intervention into the domestic affairs of targeted countries. 

So up next:  War with China.  If you can't compete with them economically, well start a war with them.  Then rake in the profits until the nukes fly.  Which they will this time around.  Pretty freaking sad imho.

For those who wish to glimpse the view beyond that presented by mainstream media, one could start by studying what is said and written by Colonel Jacques Baud.  He worked for NATO to help rebuild the Ukrainian Army, post the Maidan Coup, so his views are based on first-hand experience.
https://www.thepostil.com/our-latest-interview-with-jacques-baud/

8 hours ago, ericbj said:

For those who wish to glimpse the view beyond that presented by mainstream media, one could start by studying what is said and written by Colonel Jacques Baud.  He worked for NATO to help rebuild the Ukrainian Army, post the Maidan Coup, so his views are based on first-hand experience.
https://www.thepostil.com/our-latest-interview-with-jacques-baud/

 

I gave reading the article after a couple of minutes and glanced through the rest of it. That was enough for me to conclude that it is an article heavy on words and light on evidence. Moreover, it is completely disjointed.

 

I googled Baud and the French Wikipedia site says that he doesn't believe that Bin Laden had any involvement in 9/11 or that Syria used chemical weapons. If only I had that knowledge prior to reading the article, I could saved myself the bother of opening the link.

Well Thailand is is already to go to war as soon as we get all the new fighter jets and the subs, we have enough generals with soooo much experience, they can defend Thailand from....hang on let me think a moment................nah forget it.

It will all be worth it , even nuclear annihilation if we can have Ukraine in NATO

On 7/24/2024 at 10:04 AM, Purdey said:

Funny that the UN was created to prevent wars but had such a poor record that it went into other social work (where its record remains poor).

If people are to volunteer, the military needs to increase wages and skills training to professional levels. Thinking that conscription is a cheap way of populating the military leads to social problems later (read about how former servicemen are sleeping on the streets these days - and those are the volunteers).

 

Firstly, the subject alliance is NATO, not the UN.

 

Secondly the founding purpose of the UN was to prevent world wars, of which there have none since its founding. 

On 7/24/2024 at 12:26 PM, blazes said:

Shocking piece of propaganda this little story about conscription.

 

Here's the deal: Russia has to be established as the Evil One.  That has been the case since at least 1917.  Now Russia's "incursion" into Ukraine (which Biden, using the word "incursion", more or less okayed) allows us to make more realistic the "threat" to the whole of Europe.

Next, make the young people of Europe believe in this threat.   Then train them to kill. 

Finally, when Europe, close to financial collapse and faced with riots, sends in the newly-trained conscript troops to "deal with" the breakdown in law and order. 

"But I thought we were supposed to be fighting Russia."  "Sorry mate, we've got to deal with all these domestic terrorists first."

 

 

Her’s the deal Russia invaded Ukraine and it didn’t go to plan.

As usual the numpties in charge are preparing to fight the last war. Drones and things like glide bombs and hypersonic missiles have changed everything.

 

Conscription sounds like a war is imminent, but IMO it's more along the lines of National Service, which is a short training period in the basics, and a camp every year. That's actually a good idea and should never have been abandoned. The only change I'd make is that it should be for everyone.

On 7/26/2024 at 10:52 PM, ericbj said:

For those who wish to glimpse the view beyond that presented by mainstream media, one could start by studying what is said and written by Colonel Jacques Baud.  He worked for NATO to help rebuild the Ukrainian Army, post the Maidan Coup, so his views are based on first-hand experience.
https://www.thepostil.com/our-latest-interview-with-jacques-baud/

The same Jacques Baud who engages in conspiracy mongering, defended by denial Syria’s use of chemical weapons and has earned through significant effort a reputation of shilling for Putin.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As usual the numpties in charge are preparing to fight the last war. Drones and things like glide bombs and hypersonic missiles have changed everything.

 

Conscription sounds like a war is imminent, but IMO it's more along the lines of National Service, which is a short training period in the basics, and a camp every year. That's actually a good idea and should never have been abandoned. The only change I'd make is that it should be for everyone.

You included?

On 7/24/2024 at 3:33 AM, Social Media said:

“It is tragically true that here we are, in 2024, and we are grappling with the questions of how to mobilize millions of people to be thrown into a meatgrinder of a war potentially, but this is where Russia has put us.”

No you put yourselves there. Perhaps trying for a peace deal could help. War mongers!

29 minutes ago, 300sd said:

No you put yourselves there. Perhaps trying for a peace deal could help. War mongers!

 

I take it you mean NATO.....a defensive organisation that countries join on a voluntary basis in order to protect themselves from war mongers......???????

2 hours ago, 300sd said:

No you put yourselves there. Perhaps trying for a peace deal could help. War mongers!

 

An appropriate peace-deal might be for Russia to withdraw immediately from all occupied territory in Ukraine including Crimea; pay billions in reparations to Ukraine; send Putin and his cronies to the Hague in chains.

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

An appropriate peace-deal might be for Russia to withdraw immediately from all occupied territory in Ukraine including Crimea; pay billions in reparations to Ukraine; send Putin and his cronies to the Hague in chains.

For once, I agree with you..........

On 7/24/2024 at 7:52 AM, john donson said:

that the war could have been stopped or avoided .... but the 'leaders' in the west decided war is profitable.... 

 

if they want men to go die, politicians, send your sons and daughters or do it yourself

 

rather be in jail then to go die for the elite

 

nato broke the promises after the cold war / fall of the wall, to not go make new NATO members in the east...

 

I seem to remember the "leaders" calling Putin and almost begging him not to invade Ukraine, Biden and Macron particularly making 11th hour calls to Putin, and he told them he would not, it's just exercises on the border

 

Countries ask to join NATO, no one forces them, they want protection from the bully Russia, by Putin's stupid actions more countries have joined NATO that's down to Putin, no one else, they don't want to end up like Ukraine

3 hours ago, 300sd said:

No you put yourselves there. Perhaps trying for a peace deal could help. War mongers!

Perhaps you should write a note to Putin pointing out he is an old school commie warmonger.................

3 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Well Thailand is is already to go to war as soon as we get all the new fighter jets and the subs, we have enough generals with soooo much experience, they can defend Thailand from....hang on let me think a moment................nah forget it.

well I read today that the Thai military wants armed drones and attack helicopters too!  Need some more tax monies for that

On 7/27/2024 at 2:44 AM, RayC said:

 

I gave reading the article after a couple of minutes and glanced through the rest of it. That was enough for me to conclude that it is an article heavy on words and light on evidence. Moreover, it is completely disjointed.

 

I googled Baud and the French Wikipedia site says that he doesn't believe that Bin Laden had any involvement in 9/11 or that Syria used chemical weapons. If only I had that knowledge prior to reading the article, I could saved myself the bother of opening the link.

But the poster is doing his "own research"! 😅

I wonder how Baltic States deal with their Russian speaking minorities. Can they trust them to fight against Russia?

Bring it On!

 

Having been antiwar my entire life, wars have increased.

I am switching to being Pro-War.

I am tired of being in the minority, all the time.

 

5 hours ago, candide said:

I wonder how Baltic States deal with their Russian speaking minorities. Can they trust them to fight against Russia?

 

Not Baltic, but I have been working in Kazakhstan for some time and see a definite move away from Russian influence. 

 

Russian is still the dominant language there but Kazakh is gaining in its use and it's now the official language of the government. Similarly, the government has entered a process of transitioning from Cyrillic to Latin characters. For example, whereas previously the police would have Полиция on their uniforms, now they read Politzya. 

 

Of course the Russian minority is feeling unhappy but when I ask my ethnic Kazakh colleagues about it, they simply shrug. But Russian Kazakhs make up about 15% of the population so not insignificant, but I think even they struggle to muster support for the actions of Russia. Certainly I hear next to no support from any quarter for Russia's aggression. 

On 7/27/2024 at 7:44 AM, RayC said:

 

I gave reading the article after a couple of minutes and glanced through the rest of it. That was enough for me to conclude that it is an article heavy on words and light on evidence. Moreover, it is completely disjointed.

 

I googled Baud and the French Wikipedia site says that he doesn't believe that Bin Laden had any involvement in 9/11 or that Syria used chemical weapons. If only I had that knowledge prior to reading the article, I could saved myself the bother of opening the link.

The Ukraine - Afghanistan - Syria.  Yes, all part of the matrix.

It is probable that Osama bin Laden was not directly involved in organising 9/11, but was likely familiar with those that were so involved.  In interviews and speeches he has seemingly taken contradictory positions, claiming in some to have been uninvolved while elsewhere claiming responsibility.

https://scholarship.tricolib.brynmawr.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/f58d2574-bfec-4294-850e-68eb5e6b6716/content

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech

And:

' Tayseer Allouni of Al Jazeera conducted an interview with bin Laden on October 21, 2001. ... During the interview, Allouni had asked bin Laden for his response to the claim that he was behind the attacks on September 11. bin Laden described the hijackers as " brave guys who took the battle to the heart of America" and said that "They did this, as we understand it, and this is something we have agitated for before, as a matter of self-defense...If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history be witness that we are terrorists." ' [Wikipedia]

I remember viewing, years ago, a video of a speech where "Osama bin Laden" plausibly claims responsibility.  The only hiccup: the speaker, made to look like bin Laden, was no true look-a-like.  One supposes it to have been a piece of "intox" by some western propaganda source.  Currently unable to locate the video online. Perhaps, having served its purpose, it has been removed.

Syrian poison gas attacks:  another propaganda coup in support of NATO bombing?

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/02/03/opcw-smoking-gun-backfires/

The true state of things is difficult to determine, but to have some chance of approaching it one must look beyond mainstream media and client organisations of the financial establishment.

 

On 7/29/2024 at 9:03 AM, RuamRudy said:

 

Not Baltic, but I have been working in Kazakhstan for some time and see a definite move away from Russian influence. 

 

Russian is still the dominant language there but Kazakh is gaining in its use and it's now the official language of the government. Similarly, the government has entered a process of transitioning from Cyrillic to Latin characters. For example, whereas previously the police would have Полиция on their uniforms, now they read Politzya. 

 

Of course the Russian minority is feeling unhappy but when I ask my ethnic Kazakh colleagues about it, they simply shrug. But Russian Kazakhs make up about 15% of the population so not insignificant, but I think even they struggle to muster support for the actions of Russia. Certainly I hear next to no support from any quarter for Russia's aggression. 

And there's this:

China warns against meddling in Kazakhstan ahead of Putin meeting

Chinese President Xi Jinping has kicked off a visit to Central Asia with a no-nonsense statement of support for the territorial integrity of his first host country, Kazakhstan.

It sounded like an assertive statement of intent from Beijing, coming just before Xi meets Russian President Vladimir Putin this week in a face to face that the world is watching closely.

Russian-ally Kazakhstan has been shaken by the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine, while facing down saber-rattling from Russian nationalists angry at what they deem Kazakh disloyalty over the war.

https://eurasianet.org/china-warns-against-meddling-in-kazakhstan-ahead-of-putin-meeting

 

Probably because of considerations like this:

Kazakhstan’s Border With Russia Is Suddenly an Open Question Again
Moscow has long claimed parts of northern Kazakhstan. The country’s current turmoil makes those claims a lot more relevant—and troubling.

Amid nationwide protests rocking Kazakhstan this week—which have already resulted in bloodshed, political turmoil, and the end of former dictator Nursultan Nazarbayev’s cult of personality—the country is going through an unprecedented shift.
But as Kazakhstan continues to roil and as troops from the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), a Russian-led military alliance, flood the country to “stabilize” the situation, one potential outcome is suddenly very relevant yet still overlooked: state fracture. Specifically, the potential for a revanchist Russia to use Kazakhstan’s domestic turmoil as a pretext to seize a swath of northern Kazakhstan, which Russian nationalists have long coveted and ethnic Russian populations in the region have long toyed breaking off from.

https://archive.ph/KYS31#selection-971.0-979.370

20 minutes ago, ericbj said:

The Ukraine - Afghanistan - Syria.  Yes, all part of the matrix.

It is probable that Osama bin Laden was not directly involved in organising 9/11, but was likely familiar with those that were so involved.  In interviews and speeches he has seemingly taken contradictory positions, claiming in some to have been uninvolved while elsewhere claiming responsibility.

https://scholarship.tricolib.brynmawr.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/f58d2574-bfec-4294-850e-68eb5e6b6716/content

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech

And:

' Tayseer Allouni of Al Jazeera conducted an interview with bin Laden on October 21, 2001. ... During the interview, Allouni had asked bin Laden for his response to the claim that he was behind the attacks on September 11. bin Laden described the hijackers as " brave guys who took the battle to the heart of America" and said that "They did this, as we understand it, and this is something we have agitated for before, as a matter of self-defense...If inciting people to do that is terrorism, and if killing those who kill our sons is terrorism, then let history be witness that we are terrorists." ' [Wikipedia]

I remember viewing, years ago, a video of a speech where "Osama bin Laden" plausibly claims responsibility.  The only hiccup: the speaker, made to look like bin Laden, was no true look-a-like.  One supposes it to have been a piece of "intox" by some western propaganda source.  Currently unable to locate the video online. Perhaps, having served its purpose, it has been removed.

Syrian poison gas attacks:  another propaganda coup in support of NATO bombing?

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/02/03/opcw-smoking-gun-backfires/

The true state of things is difficult to determine, but to have some chance of approaching it one must look beyond mainstream media and client organisations of the financial establishment.

 

 

Bin Laden and Syria are way off topic. However, as I introduced them to the conversation - albeit in the context of undermining Baud as a credible witness - I must take responsibility.

 

Whether Bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11 or not is besides the point. The atrocity was committed by Al-Qaeda. Bin Laden was the founder and a leading member of the organisation, and was thus a legitimate target for the US. QED.

 

Wrt to use of chemical weapons in Syria, I apologise but I do not have the time or enthusiasm to research Mate's claims. However, even if we accept that he has a valid point, it is tangential to the war in Ukraine and the subject of this thread in particular.

On 7/29/2024 at 9:46 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

You included?

i am all for you going, you and a few others here seem to love the war and don't want peace..go n put your money where you mouth is, i'll even start a whip round for plane tickets for you all

9 hours ago, frank83628 said:

i am all for you going, you and a few others here seem to love the war and don't want peace..go n put your money where you mouth is, i'll even start a whip round for plane tickets for you all

I’m sure you are.

 

Now all you have to do is put up some evidence of me supporting Putin’s war of aggression against Ukraine.