Getting A Thai To Return My Favour!

[Douggie Style]

Hey all,

Hope this does not sound racist but has anyone had experience getting a favour returned from a Thai person? or for that matter getting a favour in the first place?

It's a genuine situation, there is this employee at my old office, I did a large amount of free advice & work for her over a few years, the work covered all sorts of situations, from housing dramas to a large amount of work on her visa [a difficult case].

Recently I asked her to verify my body of work over the phone to a third party, she was not at all keen, not even bothering to answer my emails. I phoned her on another pretext and the response was again fairly lack lustre...there is absolutely no reason I can think of apart from her just seeing it as a nuisance.

It doesn't really bother me, but having been asked a few favours in my time does anyone know how it works the other way?

[Austhaied]

The true act of giving wants nothing in return. Don't keep score, just don't give the same people anything else if it bothers you. Works well.

[dog412]

The true act of giving wants nothing in return. Don't keep score, just don't give the same people anything else if it bothers you. Works well.

in my view, the Thais keep meticulous attention to the "score".

[gburns57au]

A favour is given....not taken.

Was she your employee? If so as her Boss you are expected to do those things to help....as an employee or ex-employee she doesnt feel duty bound to help you. If she is an ex-employee it would seem that in her eyes, the worker/Boss relationship is finished, you had a working relationship not a friendship.

Is she qualified to do what you ask of her?

If she was a co-worker and not an employee....again it seems the working relationship is over and friendship is not on her agenda.

[Austhaied]

The true act of giving wants nothing in return. Don't keep score, just don't give the same people anything else if it bothers you. Works well.

in my view, the Thais keep meticulous attention to the "score".

So why should you / we..

[cooL_guY_corY]

go see her in person. ask her. if she refuses then thats that. obviously it sounds like an easy move on her part to do this for you. It also sounds like it is warranted considering the past betweent the two of you. On the other hand though doing things just to score favour points its offisde.

[dog412]

The true act of giving wants nothing in return. Don't keep score, just don't give the same people anything else if it bothers you. Works well.

in my view, the Thais keep meticulous attention to the "score".

So why should you / we..

the best illustration i can give us, according to my experience, would be wedding and/or funeral "envelopes". the recipients takes care to "note" the amount, therefore knowing what is to be the proper reciprocation in the case that it is warranted by them in the future, IN THAILAND.

[gburns57au]

Dog....I dont think that constitutes a favour.

[seonai]

Once again... you can't possibly say that ALL Thai people are going to act in this way or that way. It's not a Thai issue OP. It's a person to person issue. There are 60+ million Thais and they all do things differently !

[dog412]

Dog....I dont think that constitutes a favour.

i will not get too expansive on what constitutes a "favor" in the minds of the populace, but giving is giving. in thailand it's all about face, and the attitude of the RECIPIENT being the one doing the "favor". nothing is for free.

[mrbojangles]

I did a favour once. This young honest lass was desperate and asked me as a favour to lend her 10,000000Baht.

Now i want her to do me a favour.............. and let me know where she is

[dog412]

I did a favour once. This young honest lass was desperate and asked me as a favour to lend her 10,000000Baht.

Now i want her to do me a favour.............. and let me know where she is

nowhere near the 10,000,000 baht.

[Austhaied]

I did a favour once. This young honest lass was desperate and asked me as a favour to lend her 10,000000Baht.

Now i want her to do me a favour.............. and let me know where she is

She's fine MBJ and so is OUR house, carS, boatS, jet skiS, holidays in Europe etc..But I'll let her know you said hi. :D

[mrbojangles]

I did a favour once. This young honest lass was desperate and asked me as a favour to lend her 10,000000Baht.

Now i want her to do me a favour.............. and let me know where she is

She's fine MBJ and so is OUR house, carS, boatS, jet skiS, holidays in Europe etc..But I'll let her know you said hi. :D

That's great news Austhaied, are the sick buffalo she was worried about. Can you do me a favour and lend me 10 baht. I'm broke

[DirkGently]

I have had it both ways. A friend of my wifes brother seems to get a kick out of helping me out. No idea why! Maybe he gets bragging rights with his pals. On the other hand I have done all sorts for a lady in my office and she would choke rather than pass me a pen.

I have no idea what goes on in their heads.

[Austhaied]

I did a favour once. This young honest lass was desperate and asked me as a favour to lend her 10,000000Baht.

Now i want her to do me a favour.............. and let me know where she is

She's fine MBJ and so is OUR house, carS, boatS, jet skiS, holidays in Europe etc..But I'll let her know you said hi. :D

That's great news Austhaied, are the sick buffalo she was worried about. Can you do me a favour and lend me 10 baht. I'm broke

Cheques in the mail..

[solo siam]

Have you thought that maybe for some reason she feels she can not vouch for your work, it sounds like you are asking for a reference and she isn't keen, for personal or professional reasons.

[coldcrush]

"One good favour deserves another?"

เห็นแก่ได้

[frikkiedeboer]

Hey all,

Hope this does not sound racist but has anyone had experience getting a favour returned from a Thai person? or for that matter getting a favour in the first place?

It's a genuine situation, there is this employee at my old office, I did a large amount of free advice & work for her over a few years, the work covered all sorts of situations, from housing dramas to a large amount of work on her visa [a difficult case].

Recently I asked her to verify my body of work over the phone to a third party, she was not at all keen, not even bothering to answer my emails. I phoned her on another pretext and the response was again fairly lack lustre...there is absolutely no reason I can think of apart from her just seeing it as a nuisance.

It doesn't really bother me, but having been asked a few favours in my time does anyone know how it works the other way?

i have had many favours granted me by thai people, and not one of them has ever asked for anything in return (with the exception of money, or booze ) . i have done many favours for thai people and have never asked anything in return, but have never, ever been thanked for my efforts. is it a loss of "face" simply to say: "thank you" ? i speak some thai, and know the words actually exist, ( i may be wrong, but i think i remember them from some of the language courses i studied) the same applies to the word "please". the closest i ever got to hearing the thai word for please was "kaw", which i seem to remember means something like "gimme" . the rural thais seem to have a very short memory when it gets to remembering, or appreciating anything which is done for them, and this farang, for one, will never again repair motorcycles, waterpumps, cars, or offer free transport, welding and electrical repairs, or offer free acess to my fruit trees to any of the local populace, until they learn the concept of good manners.

[ratchabuild]

Hey all,

Hope this does not sound racist but has anyone had experience getting a favour returned from a Thai person? or for that matter getting a favour in the first place?

It's a genuine situation, there is this employee at my old office, I did a large amount of free advice & work for her over a few years, the work covered all sorts of situations, from housing dramas to a large amount of work on her visa [a difficult case].

Recently I asked her to verify my body of work over the phone to a third party, she was not at all keen, not even bothering to answer my emails. I phoned her on another pretext and the response was again fairly lack lustre...there is absolutely no reason I can think of apart from her just seeing it as a nuisance.

It doesn't really bother me, but having been asked a few favours in my time does anyone know how it works the other way?

i have had many favours granted me by thai people, and not one of them has ever asked for anything in return (with the exception of money, or booze ) . i have done many favours for thai people and have never asked anything in return, but have never, ever been thanked for my efforts. is it a loss of "face" simply to say: "thank you" ? i speak some thai, and know the words actually exist, ( i may be wrong, but i think i remember them from some of the language courses i studied) the same applies to the word "please". the closest i ever got to hearing the thai word for please was "kaw", which i seem to remember means something like "gimme" . the rural thais seem to have a very short memory when it gets to remembering, or appreciating anything which is done for them, and this farang, for one, will never again repair motorcycles, waterpumps, cars, or offer free transport, welding and electrical repairs, or offer free acess to my fruit trees to any of the local populace, until they learn the concept of good manners.

Bhuddists make merit by selfless giving. To have any notion of owing something back is to demean and lessen the gift. You get thanked at the time. Thats enough or next time let them know its a swap like for like.

[frikkiedeboer]

Bhuddists make merit by selfless giving. To have any notion of owing something back is to demean and lessen the gift. You get thanked at the time. Thats enough or next time let them know its a swap like for like.

thank you,the explanation you have made confirms what i have suspected for some time now. is it demeaning for a bhuddist to say "please" or "thank you" or show any kind of appreciation? does their religion absolve them from having to show any gratitude? i consider any favour done for me to be a moral debt.i never expected anything but a polite "thank you" in return for anything i ever did for anybody else, nor did i ever expect any person to be forever indebted to me, but common decency and good manners, i thought , was an universal concept- before i came to asia. oh, and the "selfless giving" always had a price attatched, either in the form of money or alcohol. maybe the rules don't apply to farang? or maybe i am just generalising, and it is only in the village i stayed that these traits are prevalent. either way, no more favours from me! i have learned my lesson!

[Ping]

Ratchabuild is precisely on point. Merit-making (an element of [Therevada] Buddhism that is often referred to as Kammatic Buddhism) is the primary element, but there is also often an (arguably less noble) element of status ('face').

[gburns57au]

What happened to....It is better to give than receive....

A couple of you guys sound like you think the world owes you a favour...

Concept of manners......by your own standards is it ??

Get over it guys

I have had Thais do me favours and expect nothing in return.....when I do them a favour I expect the same.

Edited August 2, 2007 by gburns57au

[ProThaiExpat]

I first noticed lack of acknowledgment when receiving gifts almost immediately upon coming to Thailand. It was the monks out for their morning food donations. No facial expression, no words, no nods or bows, nothing. When I asked a knowledgeable Thai, I was informed that the gift giver is making merit by giving the gift and should almost thank the recipient of the gift for receiving it.

In the west we have a Christian axiom, "It is better to give than receive"

While many posts aggressively suggest that Thais should follow western customs of etiquette, I try to find out the reason for the behavior and accept it, although I may personally not agree with it.

In the "old days" in Japan, westerners were shocked beyond belief when no Japanese person would go to the aid of an injured Japanese person in a railroad station situation. At that time, the obligation created by the act of kindness would create such a heavy burden, by Japanese custom, on the injured person to repay the favor (and they may just not be able to) as to be unbearable. Thus the act of kindness was the abstention from giving aid by a bystander. Understand, don't agree, but not my culture.

It may well be western culture that breeds into us an expectation of the return of a favor someday and when it doesn't happen, anger and disappointment results. To avoid the anger and disappointment, try to give without any expectation of return of the favor, difficult for most westerners to do, but something we must try to do if we want to avoid the anger and disappointment. Believe me, I am working on just such a situation now and it is not easy.

[kmart]

I have had it both ways. A friend of my wifes brother seems to get a kick out of helping me out. No idea why! Maybe he gets bragging rights with his pals. On the other hand I have done all sorts for a lady in my office and she would choke rather than pass me a pen.

I have no idea what goes on in their heads.

Same thing here. Some Thais think they're losing face working for a farang. If it becomes a problem or irritation, its better to get them to one side and have it out with them, one on one.

Always keep your office relations cordial, polite and professional; and try not to make your personal life common knowledge amongst staff also. A few jokes and banter is helpful, but don't give too many favours that you expect to call in at a later stage.

After a while you should know who is on your side and can be trusted with reciprocal favours and info.

[mellow1]

Thais, know how to say thank you,they say kap khun kap or ka if it's a woman.I know because I've experienced it.

Do not be eager to be helpful, or give stuff to people,they will take you for an idiot, or get angry when you have nothing more to give.Be reserved ,and don't jump into situations.Feel your way into relationships.You will soon be able to weed out the nice people from the <deleted>.All this stuff about different culture is crap.Or else someone better inform the Thais that I interact with, how badly they are screwed up.If someone is not polite with me or mine,I completely ignore them afterwards,or they might get a small smile or nod, should they do so first.Usually this wont happen,<deleted> know who they are.

[Andrew Hicks]

I first noticed lack of acknowledgment when receiving gifts almost immediately upon coming to Thailand. It was the monks out for their morning food donations. No facial expression, no words, no nods or bows, nothing. When I asked a knowledgeable Thai, I was informed that the gift giver is making merit by giving the gift and should almost thank the recipient of the gift for receiving it.

In the west we have a Christian axiom, "It is better to give than receive"

While many posts aggressively suggest that Thais should follow western customs of etiquette, I try to find out the reason for the behavior and accept it, although I may personally not agree with it.

In the "old days" in Japan, westerners were shocked beyond belief when no Japanese person would go to the aid of an injured Japanese person in a railroad station situation. At that time, the obligation created by the act of kindness would create such a heavy burden, by Japanese custom, on the injured person to repay the favor (and they may just not be able to) as to be unbearable. Thus the act of kindness was the abstention from giving aid by a bystander. Understand, don't agree, but not my culture.

It may well be western culture that breeds into us an expectation of the return of a favor someday and when it doesn't happen, anger and disappointment results. To avoid the anger and disappointment, try to give without any expectation of return of the favor, difficult for most westerners to do, but something we must try to do if we want to avoid the anger and disappointment. Believe me, I am working on just such a situation now and it is not easy.

This has turned out to be an interesting thread.

I live with my wife in a small and very poor village in Surin. Because I have the resources, favours are rarely done for me. Everything usually has a price. Material things flow from me to them, often from the mouth of a bottle.

I am pretty familiar with Asia but on the tenth time I paid the bill for a big meal at which everyone ordered whatever they wanted, I put it to my wife that they always walk away without a word of acknowlegement or thanks. She said that Thais just smile and that that is enough.

As a farang living here I accept that I must adapt a hundred percent to Thai customs, but why should the Thais who have contact with me not respect my expectations just a little bit too. I put this gently to my wife who listened carefully to what I had to say about a thank you not costing anything.

Now whenever we go out to eat together I am thanked graciously and I feel we have all learned something.

One funny thing... it is not as if there is no culture of saying thank you in Thailand especially to a superior. If a child is given something such as a coin, they are very strictly schooled to bow and to wai, and very charming it is too. The adults could learn something from them perhaps.

Andrew Hicks

[Hawkup2000]

A taxidriver that I had meet only one time before took the day of and drove me to Mae Sod and back for free on my first visarun.

Infact, I have never had to be alone when it comes to doing anything "hard or serious". There is always a helping hand from people (know or unknow) that never asked for anything back in return.

[Douggie Style]

A favour is given....not taken.

Was she your employee? If so as her Boss you are expected to do those things to help....as an employee or ex-employee she doesnt feel duty bound to help you. If she is an ex-employee it would seem that in her eyes, the worker/Boss relationship is finished, you had a working relationship not a friendship.

Is she qualified to do what you ask of her?

If she was a co-worker and not an employee....again it seems the working relationship is over and friendship is not on her agenda.

Interesting..yes she was an employee....I think you have probably hit the nail on the head...good answer thanks....altered my perspective for the better

[Douggie Style]

go see her in person. ask her. if she refuses then thats that. obviously it sounds like an easy move on her part to do this for you. It also sounds like it is warranted considering the past betweent the two of you. On the other hand though doing things just to score favour points its offisde.

thanks, good point, I had the opportunity to see her today but decided to just let it go..she did say she has been busy and just bought a restaurant ..so will give her the benefit of the doubt.

Normally i like doing favours, when in the mood, this case was a little different because it was a difficult situation over a period of time and she pressed me, but as Burnsie pointed out it was probably an expectation I should help being in the higher position.