11 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

America has been arming Ukraine with ever more lethal weapons. It is almost certain once the war is over Ukraine will participate in nuclear sharing after it becomes a NATO member. Ukrainians have demanded nuclear weapons for decades.

 

Of course NATO can't grant Ukraine NATO membership now when it is at war with Russia, because that would mean going to war with Russia. But once the peace settlement is in place it will be a question of time only before Ukraine becomes a NATO member and participates in nuclear sharing.

Have you got a reputable links to all that B.S...?  😋

11 minutes ago, transam said:

Guessing..............😂

Did I get a proper answer from you as to why Sweden & Finland asked to join NATO....?

 

Firstly Sweden and Finland have been official partners of NATO since 1994. So these two joining NATO changes nothing really.

 

Secondly, they purely acted out of irrational fear. Any person who has had a cursory glance at the size of the Russian economy knows it is an impossibility for Russia to invade Sweden, Finland, Poland, Germany and all these other countries who seem to be so scared of Russia.

 

Russia is hardly able to fight and occupy all of Ukraine, so any notion of an Imperial Russia comeback is just fantasy.

 

Sweden's military weakness came into full view in 2013 when Russian bomber planes were able to simulate an attack on Stockholm and Sweden needed Nato help to ward them off.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61397478

 

So it was Sweden's own weakness that made it join NATO. 

 

 

Edited August 16, 20241 yr by Cameroni

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Firstly Sweden and Finland have been official partners of NATO since 1994. So these two joining NATO changes nothing really.

 

Secondly, they purely acted out of irrational fear. Any person who has had a cursory glance at the size of the Russian economy knows it is an impossibility for Russia to invade Sweden, Finland, Poland, Germany and all these other countries who seem to be so scared of Russia.

 

Russia is hardly able to fight and occupy all of Ukraine, so any notion of an Imperial Russia comeback is just fantasy.

 

Sweden's military weakness came into full view in 2013 when Russian bomber planes were able to simulate an attack on Stockholm and Sweden needed Nato help to ward them off.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61397478

 

So it was Sweden's own weakness that made it join NATO. 

 

 

What a load..........🤣

 

Why don't you just say.....

 

"They saw the writing on the wall when Putin invaded Ukraine for land grab, so being part of NATO reduced the risk"........🤣

 

 

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

I do not support Putin or Russia. I support the west.

🤩

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Another example of the lies you post. Provide a link that confirms Ukraine has demanded nuclear weapons for decades, when they gave them up in 1994 in return for a guarantee of national security.

 

Then provide evidence the US, UK and France have EVER shared their nuclear secrets with anyone.

 

Nuclear sharing, another lie from a Kremlin troll.

 

I never post lies, as you should know by now. I'm a bit hurt, Lacessit.

 

"By late 1992, the Ukrainian parliament was vocalizing more pro-nuclear views. Some believed that Ukraine was entitled to at least temporary nuclear weapon status. Perhaps optimistically, the U.S. government promised Ukraine $175 million in dismantlement assistance. Instead, the Ukrainian government began implementing administrative management of the nuclear forces and claimed ownership of the warheads."

 

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-and-security-assurances-glance

 

In 2014 "Pavlo Rizanenko, a member of the Ukrainian parliament, told USA Today that Ukraine may have to arm themselves with their own nuclear weapons if the United States and other world leaders do not hold up their end of the agreement. He said, "We gave up nuclear weapons because of this agreement. Now, there's a strong sentiment in Ukraine that we made a big mistake."He also said that, "In the future, no matter how the situation is resolved in Crimea, we need a much stronger Ukraine. If you have nuclear weapons, people don't invade you."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

 

On April 15, 2021, Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany Melnyk said that if Ukraine is not allowed to join NATO, his country might have to reconsider its status as a non-nuclear weapon state to guarantee its defense

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

 

As for nuclear sharing

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

I do not support Putin

🤩

30 minutes ago, candide said:

It's not certain and it's post invasion.

It's not an argument to justify the invasion. The same chronological causal problem again. You are justifying an event with arguments dealing with what may happen after the event.

It's a fallacious argumentation.

 

Not at all. As soon as Ukraine made clear in 2002 that it wants to join NATO the possibility of a nuclear powered, pro American Ukraine who is a NATO member started to be a problem for Russia.

 

America has known this for decades.

Edited August 16, 20241 yr by Cameroni

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

Not at all. As soon as Ukraine made clear in 2002 that it wants to join NATO the possibility of a nuclear powered, pro American Ukraine who is a NATO member startedt to be a problem for Russia.

 

America has known this for decades.

Again no NATO nuclear weapons have been deployed closer to the Russian border and no such intent has ever been showed. Before Russia started to make nuclear threats recently.

 

The idea that NATO was a threat to Russia, as its European members were reducing their military potential (budget), as well as the U.S. was reducing its military presence in Europe, is a myth.

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Again no NATO nuclear weapons have been deployed closer to the Russian border and no such intent has ever been showed. Before Russia started to make nuclear threats recently.

 

The idea that NATO was a threat to Russia, as its European members were reducing their military potential (budget), as well as the U.S. was reducing its military presence in Europe, is a myth.

 

Note how this is double standard. Nobody threatened Finland or Sweden. However, when these countries join NATO, in the absence of any threat from Russia whatsoever to these countries, everyone nods and signals understanding. However, when Russa is encircled by NATO member states, some of whom have nuclear weapons, but all have conventional US weapons and Russia then feels threatened, this is a big shock to everyone.

 

Very odd this congnitive dissonance among some.

4 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Who's this?

Sir Tony Robertson, I thought everyone knew that....🙄

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Note how this is double standard. Nobody threatened Finland or Sweden. However, when these countries join NATO, in the absence of any threat from Russia whatsoever to these countries, everyone nods and signals understanding. However, when Russa is encircled by NATO member states, some of whom have nuclear weapons, but all have conventional US weapons and Russia then feels threatened, this is a big shock to everyone.

 

Very odd this congnitive dissonance among some.

Sure. No threat whatsoever! 😀

20 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Note how this is double standard. Nobody threatened Finland or Sweden. However, when these countries join NATO, in the absence of any threat from Russia whatsoever to these countries, everyone nods and signals understanding. However, when Russa is encircled by NATO member states, some of whom have nuclear weapons, but all have conventional US weapons and Russia then feels threatened, this is a big shock to everyone.

 

Very odd this congnitive dissonance among some.

Exactly. Finland and Sweden had no reason to invade Russia!

Oh wait!  😞

1 hour ago, candide said:

The only NATO missiles deployed nearer to the Russian border, in Poland and Romania, were anti-missiles system (AEGIS). 

There has never been any plan to deploy offensive missiles never to the Russian border.

Another fake argument.

 

P.S. Additionally, Ukraine is not such a strategic location. Check on a map which NATO countries are close to Saint Petetsburg and Moscow, and compare the distance with the distance from Ukraine.

You miss my point.  The issue is not necessarily the proximity of St. Petersburg or Moscow to Ukraine.  There’s also the issue of the proximity of the Ukraine border to Russia’s strategic apparatus.  Radar sites, missile sites, and so on, within Russia and close to Ukraine.  That proximity and the very real possibility that those assets would be in close striking distance from Ukraine are the threat.  
 

As for any real plan to deploy offensive missiles?  Such weapons could be deployed in no time.  And, given the current state of hostilities, Russia must surely assume that that’s exactly what would happen. 

48 minutes ago, candide said:

Exactly. Finland and Sweden had no reason to invade Russia!

Oh wait!  😞

 

I'm talking about the plausibility of nations being concerned about their security. Finland and Sweden were. And so was Russia.

1 hour ago, candide said:

Sure. No threat whatsoever! 😀

 

Before Sweden and Finland said they will join NATO Putin did not threaten them.

 

Very foolish of Sweden and Finland btw, they could have had a nuclear free Baltic. Now the arms race is back on. Very bad news for Sweden and Finland.

Edited August 16, 20241 yr by Cameroni

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

Before Sweden and Finland said they will join NATO Putin did not threaten them.

That, is a very stupid reply, a bit like,

 

"I was right to NOT get vaccinated against Tuberculosis, because I never caught it"..................😂

3 minutes ago, transam said:

That, is a very stupid reply, a bit like,

 

"I was right to NOT get vaccinated against Tuberculosis, because I never caught it"..................😂

 

Again, if Sweden and Finland seriously thought about it, they would have understood that Russia cannot possibly invade them. Nor Latvia, Estonia, Poland or Germany. Because Russia's economy is smaller than Texas. Already to occupy a small part of Ukraine is a struggle long term, imagine Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germay etc.... It doesn't even make sense.

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

Again, if Sweden and Finland seriously thought about it, they would have understood that Russia cannot possibly invade them. Nor Latvia, Estonia, Poland or Germany. Because Russia's economy is smaller than Texas. Already to occupy a small part of Ukraine is a struggle long term, imagine Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germay etc.... It doesn't even make sense.

It seems you are a guesser........🤭

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Of course they do. The US uses NATO to project Western influence. 

 

NATO was founded in the West to protect the West.

 

To say the West projects its influence using NATO is no more "outrageous" than saying a Zebra has stripes.

 

You repeating it doesn't change anything. Is western media NATO? Relax your mind, you've become obsessive, spouting gibberish and unable to understand anything outside your little box.

On 8/14/2024 at 9:42 PM, Jingthing said:

I think Ukraine is teaching the west a lesson with this as much as Putin

 

How is Ukraine teaching the West a lesson?  They are completely reliant on the West for assistance and if they didn't have their support, they would be part of Russia by now. 

 

It's great that they're doing well, but they aren't teaching anyone any lessons.

15 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Before Sweden and Finland said they will join NATO Putin did not threaten them.

 

Very foolish of Sweden and Finland btw, they could have had a nuclear free Baltic. Now the arms race is back on. Very bad news for Sweden and Finland.

 

Your posts have increased in foolishness as time has gone by. I really think you should take a rest from the thread. You are just babbling.

Just now, BangkokReady said:

 

How is Ukraine teaching the West a lesson?  They are completely reliant on the West for assistance and if they didn't have their support, they would be part of Russia by now. 

 

It's great that they're doing well, but they aren't teaching anyone any lessons.

I think they are, doing extremely well, extremely well. 

Yes given the tools, but using those tools extremely well, all new stuff that the boy's must learn how to use.

I take my hat off, to them....

1 minute ago, NowNow said:

 

Your posts have increased in foolishness as time has gone by. I really think you should take a rest from the thread. You are just babbling.

I totally agree, he is  beginning to look a bit daft......🤔

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

Again, if Sweden and Finland seriously thought about it, they would have understood that Russia cannot possibly invade them. Nor Latvia, Estonia, Poland or Germany. Because Russia's economy is smaller than Texas. Already to occupy a small part of Ukraine is a struggle long term, imagine Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germay etc.... It doesn't even make sense.

However, Russia has a record of trying to punch above its weight. It seems it cannot admit its past glory is over and it's now a minor economic power.

 

I have noticed that the Russian people I met often tended to compare their country to the U.S., not to European countries of comparable economic size.

22 minutes ago, candide said:

However, Russia has a record of trying to punch above its weight. It seems it cannot admit its past glory is over and it's now a minor economic power.

 

I have noticed that the Russian people I met often tended to compare their country to the U.S., not to European countries of comparable economic size.

 

Russia is a minor economic power, true, however, it is still a major military power, Russia has the most confirmed nuclear weapons of any country, not to mention new fancy bombs. Already in the 1990s you read about this "end of history" stuff from Fukuyama, even then it seemed like a crock of xxxx to me. Yes, Russia has a smallish economy now and it could not invade Europe or occupy any counry long term. However, clearly people still fear Russia's military. Sadly not enoughto take into account Russia's core security interests. So Russia has to sacrifice its men and resources again to do so.

 

I noticed that as well, it's understandable given the bipolar world we used to have. Due to sheer geographic size it is hard for Russians to compare their country to us mere Europeans  I suspect.

This is exactly what it was designed to do, bring the war home to Russia. Success

 

https://x.com/GlasnostGone/status/1824447691776028711

Watching this war since it began two years ago, Zhenya kept thinking "this could have been my city"."Well now it is."

 

Wall street journal few days ago reported that the clown ruler of Kiev was behind the attack of the Nord Stream pipeline and the diver doing the job has been identified and under an international arrest warrant. Yet the west is foolishly continuing to supply billions in money and weapons to the corrupt in Kiev.

5 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

Wall street journal few days ago reported that the clown ruler of Kiev was behind the attack of the Nord Stream pipeline and the diver doing the job has been identified and under an international arrest warrant. Yet the west is foolishly continuing to supply billions in money and weapons to the corrupt in Kiev.

One man's clown is another man's heroic freedom fighter.

18 hours ago, NowNow said:

 

Sounds like you are having a wet dream. Why is it, do you think, that you are unable to have a balanced view? That you are burning a torch for Russia. Did you so hate your Western experience?

You have a vivid imagination as you made all that up. You have ZERO proof I support Russia, or that I hate the west in total. Of course I have issues with certain stupid things in the west, but that does not mean I want Russia to take us over ( as if it could anyway ).

10 hours ago, NowNow said:

 

Your posts have increased in foolishness as time has gone by. I really think you should take a rest from the thread. You are just babbling.

There is certainly babbling on this thread, but not from him.