Trump calls Harris a Marxist, a communist, even a fascist. Says one expert: "It's a slur."

[Cameroni]

Just now, RayC said:

 

The economic illiterates are those who see no role for the State in the management of the economy and a nation's resources.

 

You should tell Kamala to have a look at how the French monarchy tried to fix the price for bread before the revolution and what kind of rip-roaring success they had.

 

Anyone who thinks they can fix inflation with price fixing belongs in the economics remedial class.

[maesariang]

53 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

So anyone who believes that price controls might sometimes be necessary i.e. in the public interest, is by definition a Marxist?

It is a Marxist policy. Not a good one either.

 

Define Marxist?

[RayC]

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

You should tell Kamala to have a look at how the French monarchy tried to fix the price for bread before the revolution and what kind of rip-roaring success they had.

 

Anyone who thinks they can fix inflation with price fixing belongs in the economics remedial class.

 

Hunger, due to a failed harvest, played a large part in the French Revolution. However, it was not price fixing but laissez-faire economics which was the problem i.e. a shortage of bread lead to an increase in its' prices which many in the Third Estate could not afford. This, together with a general dissatisfaction with the monarchy and political order, formed the catalyst for the Revolution.

 

By definition, price controls will control inflation. However, whether they can be used to fix inflation or are desirable and sustainable in anything but the short term is very debatable.

[Cameroni]

6 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Hunger, due to a failed harvest, played a large part in the French Revolution. However, it was not price fixing but laissez-faire economics which was the problem i.e. a shortage of bread lead to an increase in its' prices which many in the Third Estate could not afford. This, together with a general dissatisfaction with the monarchy and political order, formed the catalyst for the Revolution.

 

By definition, price controls will control inflation. However, whether they can be used to fix inflation or are desirable and sustainable in anything but the short term is very debatable.

 

What Kamala is proposing, a law to fix prices and prevent price gouging has already been tried before.

 

"The Law of the General Maximum (French: Loi du Maximum général) was instituted during the French Revolution on 29 September 1793, setting price limits and punishing price gouging to attempt to ensure the continued supply of food to the French capital. 

 

In many ways, the law actually exacerbated the problem, as the new price setting led to many food producers lowering their production or halting altogether, while many of those who continued to produce held onto their inventories, rather than sell at the legal price, which was often below the cost of production. This led to continued food shortages and recurring famines throughout the country."

 

The law was written with an eye towards preventing business practices like price gouging and rent seeking, but in practice, the law targeted local shopkeepers, butchers, bakers and farmers, who were already feeling the effects of the economic downturn like other citizens.

 

The General Maximum's economic impact was largely negative, as its efforts at price control led to an overall decrease in food supply and prolonged famines in parts of the country. The law amplified parts of the problem it was trying to solve. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Maximum

Edited September 3 by Cameroni

[maesariang]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Hunger, due to a failed harvest, played a large part in the French Revolution. However, it was not price fixing but laissez-faire economics which was the problem i.e. a shortage of bread lead to an increase in its' prices which many in the Third Estate could not afford. This, together with a general dissatisfaction with the monarchy and political order, formed the catalyst for the Revolution.

 

By definition, price controls will control inflation. However, whether they can be used to fix inflation or are desirable and sustainable in anything but the short term is very debatable.

Price controls reduce supply. Retailers stop selling low margin goods. Some go broke. Unemployment rises. Farmers go broke. Then the government spends more printed money which increases inflation trying to reduce unemployment. So you end  up with a worse economy.

 

Only an idiot would support it.

Edited September 3 by maesariang

[RayC]

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

What Kamala is proposing, a law to fix prices and prevent price gouging has already been tried before.

 

"The Law of the General Maximum (French: Loi du Maximum général) was instituted during the French Revolution on 29 September 1793, setting price limits and punishing price gouging to attempt to ensure the continued supply of food to the French capital. 

 

In many ways, the law actually exacerbated the problem, as the new price setting led to many food producers lowering their production or halting altogether, while many of those who continued to produce held onto their inventories, rather than sell at the legal price, which was often below the cost of production. This led to continued food shortages and recurring famines throughout the country."

 

The law was written with an eye towards preventing business practices like price gouging and rent seeking, but in practice, the law targeted local shopkeepers, butchers, bakers and farmers, who were already feeling the effects of the economic downturn like other citizens.

 

The General Maximum's economic impact was largely negative, as its efforts at price control led to an overall decrease in food supply and prolonged famines in parts of the country. The law amplified parts of the problem it was trying to solve. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Maximum

 

I'm not sure why you keep drawing an analogy between the US in 2024 and revolutionary France of the 1790s. There are plenty of more recent examples of price controls e.g. the privatised utilities in the UK.

 

Harris has given few details about how her plan would work and leaves herself open to justifiable attack for that very reason. However, one would think that she would not be stupid enough to set any price ceiling below the cost of production as the French government of 1793 did.

[RayC]

12 minutes ago, maesariang said:

Price controls reduce supply. Retailers stop selling low margin goods. Some go broke. Unemployment rises. Farmers go broke. Then the government spends more printed money which increases inflation trying to reduce unemployment. So you end  up with a worse economy.

 

Only an idiot would support it.

 

I am not in favour of price controls as a rule but they have their place in a mixed economy.

 

Many utility companies in the UK are publicly listed e.g. water companies, power companies, etc. Many are also monopolies. Do you think that they should be free to charge whatever price they like? Only an idiot would think so.

[Cameroni]

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I'm not sure why you keep drawing an analogy between the US in 2024 and revolutionary France of the 1790s. There are plenty of more recent examples of price controls e.g. the privatised utilities in the UK.

 

Harris has given few details about how her plan would work and leaves herself open to justifiable attack for that very reason. However, one would think that she would not be stupid enough to set any price ceiling below the cost of production as the French government of 1793 did.

 

Because someone had claimed before that this price fixing idea was a "progressive" measure. In fact the reactionary forces of the French revolution already tried it over 200 years ago, with little successs.

 

Most likely she's not given specifics on her plan because she saw the reviews by economists who were universally deriding her understanding of economics, ie to save herself embarassment. After all she just parrots what she's told. 

Edited September 3 by Cameroni

[RayC]

29 minutes ago, maesariang said:

It is a Marxist policy. Not a good one either.

 

Define Marxist?

 

Actually you should be supplying the definition not me, as you are one claiming that the policy is Marxist.

 

There are no end of PhD dissertations devoted to the question: 'What is Marxism?', so I'm not going to attempt it here.

 

I replied to you separately giving examples of where I believe price controls are appropriate.

[RayC]

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Because someone had claimed before that this price fixing idea was a "progressive" measure. In fact the reactionary forces of the French revolution already tried it over 200 years ago, with little successs.

 

Fair enough.

 

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Most likely she's not given specifics on her plan because she saw the reviews by economists who were universally deriding her understanding of economics, ie to save herself embarassment. After all she just parrots what she's told. 

 

You may be right. Time will tell whether Harris has a realistic and workable plan to implement price controls or whether she is just spouting empty rhetoric.

[Scott Tracy]

On 9/3/2024 at 10:36 AM, Cameroni said:

No, but they are by definition economic illiterates.

 

What are, price controls...?

[Cameroni]

11 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

 

What are, price controls...?

 

Harris had proposed to combat inflation and price gouging with fixing prices for groceries. That's called price control.

[Scott Tracy]

12 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Harris had proposed to combat inflation and price gouging with fixing prices for groceries. That's called price control.

Apologies, the whole quote wasn't copied... I was enquiring about how price controls could be considered to be economic illiterates, from a previous post. Only people can be described as economic illiterates, not price controls.

Many countries have price controls in place, even in certain places of the US have rent controls and other similar 'price' controls and other things that could be considered socialist/communist, but the thought process behind those is 'we should look after our most  vulnerable people'...free bus travel for those under or over a certain age, discounts for pensioners, health services free at the point of use...prescriptions free for the young, old or vulnerable. Some think of this as humane, some think of this as alien or socialism, but it's still targeted price control.

[candide]

It seems there are already plenty of Communist States in the U.S., including Florida! 😀

https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/price-gouging-laws-by-state.html