cdnvic Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Aircraft age is never an issue when you are overshooting runways, stalling aircraft and trying to land in unsafe conditions. Reckless or poorly trained pilots seemed to be common though. http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/airline...=China+Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maigo6 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) ...done already. Edited August 20, 2007 by Maigo6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinthee Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Relevant breaking news on the Bangkok post homepage: A China Airlines plane caught fire Monday at Naha airport on the southern Japanese island of Okinawa, injuring two people, local media reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Poorest safety record of just about any airline in the region. 2.5 times the rate of fatal incidents as Garuda Indonesian even. The safety record is changing for the better. I have used them a few times NCL-AMS-BKK in First and cattle. No complaints whatsoever. China Airlines Boeing Plane Catches Fire in JapanAug. 20 (Bloomberg) -- A China Airlines plane with 157 passengers on board caught fire after its left engine exploded at Naha airport in Okinawa, Japan, a popular beach resort. The passengers and crew were evacuated safely, the Taipei-based airline said. The engine of the Boeing Co. 737-800 caught fire at about 10:35 a.m., after the plane had landed, according to Japan's transport ministry. Terrorism was ruled out as a cause, said Johnson Sun, a China Air spokesman. Flames and smoke billowed from the aircraft's broken fuselage, leaving the nose resting on its side. The fire caused a gaping hole in the plane's roof. Firefighters extinguished the blaze by 11:37 a.m. by spraying foam on the aircraft. Rest: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...refer=worldwide LaoPo Must say one thing. They are consistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Cdnvic, I saw that on tv and it didn't just catch fire, it actually exploded! They think it was leaking fuel from a fuel tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Cdnvic, I saw that on tv and it didn't just catch fire, it actually exploded! They think it was leaking fuel from a fuel tank. It was worldwide news; actually the left engine got on fire and passengers told on the news it got extremely hot inside the plane and were evacuated, just in time; all passengers+crew escaped and just after that the plane -or parts of it- exploded. At least that's what was told....and...luckily I wasn't there.... But, after the record China Airlines/Taiwan has, I wouldn't fly with them. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine6 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) Cdnvic, I saw that on tv and it didn't just catch fire, it actually exploded! They think it was leaking fuel from a fuel tank. It was worldwide news; actually the left engine got on fire and passengers told on the news it got extremely hot inside the plane and were evacuated, just in time; all passengers+crew escaped and just after that the plane -or parts of it- exploded. At least that's what was told....and...luckily I wasn't there.... But, after the record China Airlines/Taiwan has, I wouldn't fly with them. LaoPo There's a good angle where you can see the last (seemingly) people barely getting off the slides when the engine explodes. It's a video square on to the right side of the craft and you can see the front and rear slides. The scary thing is this was after pulling into the gate when people are just getting out of their seats. Had it been a couple minutes later after carry on bags had been pulled into the aisles, I doubt everyone would have gotten out. Edit: Video on Yahoo: http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/pop...21&src=news Also saw some pictures with people carrying small bags with them. No rolling bags, but I'm amazed people grabbed any bags at all. Edited August 21, 2007 by Carmine6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If it's like any other Chinese airline then people were gathering their luggage before the nosewheel touched the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine6 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 If it's like any other Chinese airline then people were gathering their luggage before the nosewheel touched the ground Did you notice it appears to be a maintenance issue, not pilot error. New slogan: China Airlines - getting better one step at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Must pay respects to the crew for getting everyone off alive, and just in the nick of time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine6 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Must pay respects to the crew for getting everyone off alive, and just in the nick of time too. Seconded. Tremendous feat given the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 A certain TV member is feeling rather foolish at the moment. Please feel free to point and laugh at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 gosh, I just saw the front page of the International Herald Tribune with an even scarier jumbo picture of the China Airlines B737 on fire and apparently cracking in the middle... it really is a major blow to that airline's reputation (whosever fault it was).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tw25rw Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 gosh, I just saw the front page of the International Herald Tribune with an even scarier jumbo picture of the China Airlines B737 on fire and apparently cracking in the middle...it really is a major blow to that airline's reputation (whosever fault it was).... Stick to Airbus.. Much safer... Good thing this happened on the ground rather than over the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I find it funny that people would not fly them after seeing this, I have been flying them many times, no problem whatsoever. Statistically you could say that flying China has just become a little bit safer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinthee Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, prices will probably get cheaper anyway. And, statistically safer than any other mode of travel, yeah go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I find it funny that people would not fly them after seeing this, I have been flying them many times, no problem whatsoever. Statistically you could say that flying China has just become a little bit safer So until you actually are involved in a crash, fire, 30,000ft freefall, runway overshoot, are flipped upside down while landing, or the pilot stalls the aircraft (as have happened with CA) you won't see any problem with them because it hasn't personally happened to you? China Airlines is statistically one of the most dangerous international airlines to fly, and its ridiculous to suggest that by having one of their planes explode on the tarmac it has become safer. A quick lesson in statistics. When they stop crashing, stalling, blowing up, disintigrating, etc, then they become statistically safer, not because they keep doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 ^ No no, I mean whatever their track record is, it is still very safe to fly them. Much safer then participating in Bangkok's traffic for instance. I disagree with your last sentence, sure if they stop crashing they indeed become safer, but the chance of another incident any time soon, is statistically also lower. Therefore you could argue that they become safer. Anyway I have flown with them on about 10 ocassions, on long flights (>10 hours) and never even witnessed a missed landing or something similar, they have all been uneventfull flights. I guess I was very lucky. I will surely consider flying them again, I have to admit that my next flight into BKK (in about 10 days) won't be with them, but that's just because KLM was cheaper this time, but I will not hesitate to fly them again next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinrada Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Started flying with them as a courier in the early 90s (£199 r/t)via the Dam getting upgraded almost on every flight. Missed the connection a couple of times from London and had to suffer a night in the 4 *Golden Tulip Hotel at Schipal and force myself to visit as many refreshment places ...bruen cafes ..that I could squeeze into on a single evening......hard work... I eventually got a Gold card and even went to their Annual Xmas partys in South Ken ...and needless to say never any complaints/problems. On one occasion the "Boss" turned up from Taiwan (old hands -Formosa) and apologised for a flight that recently flipped over in Hong Kong but as far as we were concerned (by that time a bit pzed)..it was a case of M P rai...and ..."we blossom for you every day" (their moto)...happy days.. Now KW insists we go TG...direct.....som na na.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I've been flying with CI for the last 15 years, in econ and business, all mostly the Anchorage / Taipei route, it's pretty much the only show in town, basically a crew change and fuel stop for them. Their business class in on par with other carriers and I have to admit, passenger service both on and off the plane is above average. They've went thru some big hoops in getting seats when none were available on any carrier, even let us be the first to egress a flight when a particular connection was very tight. Their motto ... Customer is King ... And yes, they've recently kicked up their mileage program but so have most of the others. As far as their safety record, well that's why it's called adventure travel, I was on a latter flight a few days after that unsettling incident in which they took off from a taxi way in the middle of a cold dark Alaskan night, and left tracks in a snow berm where the gear was dragging as they were so heavy, combined with the shorter strip barley got off. It was chalked up to a communication issue with the tower but a source confided that there wasn't anyone either in the left or right seat that could speak fluent English, a requirement I believe if your going to fly thru US airspace, The fact remains, statistical the odds are that you'll safely arrive at your destination regardless of who you fly, now how stressed and sweaty palmed you are when you get there is another issue, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wileycoyote Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Qantas used to be cosidered the airline with the best safety history Wiley Coyote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimjim Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I see from the BBC another reason not to fly China Airlines http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6954397.stm Good that they also link to the crash stories from 2003 and 2002. They've been flying some old birds. There was no crash in 2003, but there was one in 2002. Also, the one in 2002 is a mystery. I never read anything that any investigator could explain why it happened or whose fault it was. It was thought of as the most dangerous airline in the 90s but not in this decade. Two big incidents now, though, so I don't know where that puts them. I would bet that they've seriously improved pilot training after all those crashes. Some incidents happened due to pilot error and also not being familiar with Airbus planes. Some of the landings were in horrible weather that caused incidents. This has happened to other airlines, such as the Air France flight in Toronto. I note that they've never had a problem with Airbus A330 model and that model has an excellent safety record, except for a test flight. Guess they worked out the kinks after that, rest in peace. Anyway, I'll be flying them one last time perhaps, as I already have the ticket. But I have more confidence that they've improved pilot training and I'll be on one A330 and maybe another or an A340 after that. Both with great records. Maybe I'll stick with EVA in the future, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Some more China Airlines' news: Taiwan jet in emergency landing A Taiwanese China Airlines plane has been forced to make an emergency landing at an airport in Japan after it ran out of fuel, airport officials say. The jet was on its way from Taipei to Nagoya when its pilots requested a landing at Kansai, in western Japan. There were no reports of injuries to passengers or crew. The incident comes two days after a China Airlines plane exploded in a fireball shortly after landing on Japan's southern island of Okinawa. All 165 people on board survived the incident, with some escaping just seconds before the plane exploded. Aviation officials from the US and Taiwan have been examining the wreckage for clues as to why the plane burst into flames, and are reported to be focusing on the possibility of a fuel leak from one of the engines. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6958944.stm For those who fly them: Happy Landing! LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Taiwan plane makes emergency landing in Japan TOKYO, Aug 22 (Reuters) - A China Airlines jet was forced to make an emergency landing at a Japanese airport on Wednesday, a broadcaster said, two days after another of the Taiwan-based carrier's aircraft exploded on Japan's southern island of Okinawa. The plane, which had been heading from Taipei to the central Japan city of Nagoya, ran out of fuel and was forced to make an emergency landing at Kansai airport instead, TV Asahi said. There were no immediate reports of injuries in the incident. Passengers were waiting on board while the aircraft was refuelled, TV Asahi said. On Monday, 165 mostly Taiwanese passengers and crew escaped with moments to spare when a China Airlines jet exploded and caught fire at Naha airport on Japan's southern resort island of Okinawa soon after arrival from Taipei. U.S. and Japanese investigators have been examining the burned-out wreckage of the Boeing 737-800 for clues as to the cause of the incident, which early reports have attributed to a fuel leak. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/T253342.htm "Fuel shortage & Fuel leak"...hmmmm... LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasRanger Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 And after the exploding plane fiasco they have to make an emergency landing today because they run out of fuel. I wouldn't touch this airline with a barge pole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tw25rw Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 And after the exploding plane fiasco they have to make an emergency landing today because they run out of fuel.I wouldn't touch this airline with a barge pole At least it wasn't going to burn much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 It's part of their new safety proceedures to avoid runway fires. Run dry and deadstick the landing. Still, I'll bet their defenders will still fly them to save $50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimjim Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Didn't Qantas have a similar occurance recently? Apparently this is quite common among all airlines. Emergency landings for any reason are fairly common, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimjim Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 I meant to say that emergency landings happen all the time. As for the reason being low on fuel, someone was saying this just happened to Qantas. There was a big thing about Malaysia Airlines a few years back always arriving in London with low fuel. There's no excuse for it, though, not defending the airline just saying that it seems to be a bigger problem than just that airline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenal2 Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 ^ No no, I mean whatever their track record is, it is still very safe to fly them. Much safer then participating in Bangkok's traffic for instance. I disagree with your last sentence, sure if they stop crashing they indeed become safer, but the chance of another incident any time soon, is statistically also lower. Therefore you could argue that they become safer. Not to be nit-picky (but I will anyway!); statistics doesn't work that way. The fact that they crash today has no affect on their statistical likelihood to crash tomorrow; it remains the same. They are just as likely to crash again tomorrow. For a simple illustration of this point: think of flipping a coin. If you flip it and get 5 heads in a row, what is the statistical probability of getting a heads on the next flip? It is exactly 50-50; the same as any other flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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