Don't Want To Keep 800,000 Baht In A Thai Bank?

[Tafia]

Gents,

I have been reading through all your comments with interest if you pardon the pun, i am currently making plans to leave good old blighty and retire to Phuket, it appears you all have different views on the best way to invest or transfer money to Thailand. My plan at the moment is to invest all my capital offshore to avoid tax and hopefully live off the interest making one or two transactions per year to avoid the hit on bank charges. i will be making a visit to the Nationwide to check out the points already raised to see if the free transfers apply.

Can anyone point me in the right direction as what to do with my pot of gold, weather to stuff it all into the Nationwide as some have done so, or stick with the offshore plan and maybe open an account with the farmers bank as a ATM point to get hold of my yearly spend budget.

Any help would be most useful.........

Charges are made for SWIFT Transfer (I believe about £20 per transaction) however the Nationwide Debit Card (Flex Account) does not charge a fee for use abroad for payments with or withdrawals from ATMs, no charge either for using the Nationwide Credit Card (other than of course for a cash withdrawal) Hope this helps

[gdhm]

Do a search on "Nationwide FlexAccount" on Thaivisa for plenty of evidence that they pay as near to the interbank rate as an ordinary punter is likely to get when drawing sterling from a Thai ATM. Both the Nationwide and the Post Office credit cards make no charge on foreign currency purchases.

I agree with this 100%. I have a current Flex Account with Nationwide Building Society. There are NO commission charges, or withdrawal charges or bank fees on ATM withdrawals in other countries and there is NO loaded Exchange rates either. I contacted the Nationwide r and asked what Exchange rates they use (at the time baht exchange rates seemed to become 2 tier -worse outside Thailand by far, best inside Thailand). I was told that the exchange rates are set by the bank of the THAI ATM I use each time. The rate is always close to the best being quoted by the Thai Banks for the relevant day.

Regarding Interest abroad.

I have an e-savings Nationwide account which must be in conjunction with a Nationwide current Account and operated via the Internet and online. I cannot make deductions directly from it BUT I can transfer monies either way online via the Internet within SECONDS and then use my ATM card shortly afterwards

UK tax is deducted at source (but you can make a case to be paid gross if eligible). Even being UK taxed at source you still get 4.64% interest and there are not restrictions on how much is in the account (above 1 GBP), or limits on money movement between current and e-savings account NOR penalties for early withdrawal. Interest is calculated once a year and credited to your e-savings account. (It is based on what you had in your account on a "day to day" basis)

Forgive me for saying so, but e-savings smashes the Thai Banks saving rates and restrictions to pieces.

I for one prefer my money in the UK with these sort of nett interest rates PLUS GOOD exchange rates being applied to ATM withdrawals. Of course if Nationwide ever remove their free debits at ATMs then I would need to think again but they have kept this (and are very proud of it) for MANY YEARS.

Thai Bank exchange rates would have to rise significantly if I was to feel it better to move and invest 800,000 baht (or whatever) in a Thai Bank at present . But I am lucky as I am with the Nationwide Building Society and most (nearly all) other UK Building Societies and Banks do not offer these benefits.

For members interest (excuse the pun) todays figure for my e-savings account are:

e-Savings

Interest Tier (GBP) AER/Gross pa % Net pa %

£1 - £3,000,000 5.80 4.64

Effective from 1 August 2007.

Kindest Regards, Dave

[astral]

This is full of fallacies.

1. Not everyone has a verifiable income to use.

2. There is no need to pay any tax on investment if you organise your affairs efficiently.

3. ATM transfers are only marginally less expensive than credit card tx,

and is way more expensive than a TT.

4. My bank gives me 6.1%

[Gary A]

Citibank US has seen fit to raise their foreign currency exchange rate to three percent when using the ATM card. I was then making wire transfers whenever I needed money. They are $30 per transfer. Now with the immigration rules changing, I went ahead and bit the bullet. I wired the 800,000 baht today. Who knows what the baht will do. In any case, I won't have to be bothered with going to Bangkok for a letter and the added Thai legalization requirement. I normally kept MOST of my funds in the stock market, but the past three weeks I have lost a substantial amount of money. I wish I had done this a month ago. I'll live off the 800,000 and top it up as necessary. It just makes life a little more simple for me.

[bsacbob]

Gents,

I have been reading through all your comments with interest if you pardon the pun, i am currently making plans to leave good old blighty and retire to Phuket, it appears you all have different views on the best way to invest or transfer money to Thailand. My plan at the moment is to invest all my capital offshore to avoid tax and hopefully live off the interest making one or two transactions per year to avoid the hit on bank charges. i will be making a visit to the Nationwide to check out the points already raised to see if the free transfers apply.

Nationwide have an offshore branch on the Isle of Man.

looks like the nationwide is the place to go, will check it out thanks

[bsacbob]

Gents,

I have been reading through all your comments with interest if you pardon the pun, i am currently making plans to leave good old blighty and retire to Phuket, it appears you all have different views on the best way to invest or transfer money to Thailand. My plan at the moment is to invest all my capital offshore to avoid tax and hopefully live off the interest making one or two transactions per year to avoid the hit on bank charges. i will be making a visit to the Nationwide to check out the points already raised to see if the free transfers apply.

Can anyone point me in the right direction as what to do with my pot of gold, weather to stuff it all into the Nationwide as some have done so, or stick with the offshore plan and maybe open an account with the farmers bank as a ATM point to get hold of my yearly spend budget.

Any help would be most useful.........

Charges are made for SWIFT Transfer (I believe about £20 per transaction) however the Nationwide Debit Card (Flex Account) does not charge a fee for use abroad for payments with or withdrawals from ATMs, no charge either for using the Nationwide Credit Card (other than of course for a cash withdrawal) Hope this helps

Thanks for the information, but if i keep all my cash in a UK bank after i leave the UK for Phuket will i get taxed on the balance in the account ??

[mahjongguy]

I wired the 800,000 baht today.

Wait 3 or 4 days. Go to the branch where you opened your account. Ask for:

1) A copy of the wire transfer details report. Have them stamp it and initial it. This is free.

2) Ask them to write a cover letter in Thai that references this transfer and that the funds came from overseas. This should cost 100 baht.

Keep those in a safe place. Less than a month prior to your renewal, go back to the bank and get a general letter that verifies you have had this account since DD/MM/YYYY.

[Fore Man]

It's simple to manage and avoids the whole can of worms involved in income verification.

So, tell me folks, what am I missing here?

I agree totally. Even if this means the loss of a few hundred dollars/pounds/whatever, it's worth it to avoid the hassle. Also, if you don't stay in Bangkok, you're going to spend money for hotels and travel expenses while getting embassy and MFA endorsements anyway.

Also, in the past couple of years I've been using baht that I bought at far more favorable exchange rates. Obviously that could go the other way, but over the course of a year you have some leeway as to when you choose to make those two or three transfers based on the current exchange rates.

Pardon me...reading all this with rapt interest....but where on the ThaiVisa forum can I go to learn exactly what is required now to get the MFA endorsement? I am about to renew my retirement visa and can qualify on either account--800K THB or 65K monthly pension. I live in Chiang Mai. From my personal vantage point, I'd prefer whatever method is the easist to employ and which requires the least hassle. Anyone have specific recent experience in CM?

We have not seen any reports from Cm that they require a certification of the Embassy income letter by the MFA.In any cases the requirement for the certification has been 'suggested' as a new requirement after October 1 and it hs been mentionned in Pattaya by the local British Counsul. Wether it will be nationwide we do not know.

At the present timeboth route income and balance or a combination are about the same hassle if you can get your income letter easy.

The balance route should be easier at this stage as there is no trip or cost for the income letter invloved only your bank records should be enough.

Some immigration offices even in that case will require a letter from the embassy certifying your adress.... but maybe not in CM. Check with them first is the best adviceif you live localy.

Thanks to RichardEllis and to Krub for their advice. I am going to CM Immigration this week to renew my retirement visa--3d extension. In the first extension in 2005--done at Bangkok via an agent--all I needed was the bank letter, photos, medical check and my passbook...plus some extra baht to ease things. That minor baakshish was not needed of course but it made it all pretty painless. I was in and out of the building in an hour. In 2006, which I accomplished in CM, the Immigration officer was easy to talk to and I had no problems at all. Took me about an hour. She only was interested in the bank letter plus a copy of my annual rental lease which verified my local address...plus the medical check which as I understand is no longer required. There was no requirement for an embassy letter last year attesting to my address. In preparation for my renewal on Thursday, I went to my bank today to get the new funds letter and they certified in explicit terms that my funds all were deposited originally by W/T. The balance has not dropped below 800K for over 3 years. Since I qualify on funds alone, I am going to try to ignore the income route this year.

This is all getting a little weird as nobody seems to have authoritative information on what is absolutely required....I suspect this is because Immigration authorities have issued clear requirements on what it takes to renew a Retirement Visa but many local officers around the Kingdom apply their own unique spin on those requirements, depending on the interpersonal vibes (or clashes) that occur between the Farang applicant and the interviewing official....or perhaps the applicant's SO, wife or agent. I play golf occasionally with a retired Immigration police general; he told me one day that 'there are so many rude Farangs who come to our offices and are poorly dressed too; it would be better for them to leave our country if they dislike it so much or fail to respect it". I could only agree with him as I too have seen much of the same. Scruffy-looking, threadbare, shorts and sandals-clad types with arrogant, 'jai ronn' attitudes who strut around as if they own this country, not vice versa.

Only my upcoming experience later this week will tell...I could be well eating crow by Saturday...but it has been my experience that being humble, friendly, non-adversarial, non-confrontational, using a smartly-dressed and friendly Thai wife to your advantage, over-preparing with what may prove to be unneeded paperwork, and taking the pains to dress for the occasion can mean all the difference in getting that visa extension easily or not so easily. We always have to bear in mind that we are guests here and are dealing with people that have, for the most part, decent personalities, but who are also very sensitive to heavy-handed foreigners demanding this and that as if it was a birthright. We'll see if I am right or wrong and I will make a post then to inform readers of what transpired. Please accept my apologies in advance for appearing to be pedantic but sometimes the posters who declaim that the the sky is falling and/or who belittle our Thai hosts just get the best of me. This site needs to stay rooted to what is real and not hypothetical or imagined. We rely on it for a source of valid information that is not easily available elsewhere and in English. Thanks for hearing me out and good luck as you deal with your own situations.

[Khun ?]

Good Idea hide the tattoos, earrings, beer belly and shaven head ( crome dome).

[Baylobo]

The Nationwide rate is actually slightly more than you will get from going into a a Thai bank with cash from England. --- a good way of coming and going without the worry or hassle of carrying a wad.

If you live in Thailand, you can have a Nationwide internet account that pays an excellent rate and email for transfer to your flexaccount when needed.

[endure]

Gents,

I have been reading through all your comments with interest if you pardon the pun, i am currently making plans to leave good old blighty and retire to Phuket, it appears you all have different views on the best way to invest or transfer money to Thailand. My plan at the moment is to invest all my capital offshore to avoid tax and hopefully live off the interest making one or two transactions per year to avoid the hit on bank charges. i will be making a visit to the Nationwide to check out the points already raised to see if the free transfers apply.

Can anyone point me in the right direction as what to do with my pot of gold, weather to stuff it all into the Nationwide as some have done so, or stick with the offshore plan and maybe open an account with the farmers bank as a ATM point to get hold of my yearly spend budget.

Any help would be most useful.........

Charges are made for SWIFT Transfer (I believe about £20 per transaction) however the Nationwide Debit Card (Flex Account) does not charge a fee for use abroad for payments with or withdrawals from ATMs, no charge either for using the Nationwide Credit Card (other than of course for a cash withdrawal) Hope this helps

Thanks for the information, but if i keep all my cash in a UK bank after i leave the UK for Phuket will i get taxed on the balance in the account ??

Any income generated in the UK will be taxed in the UK - after your annual tax allowance is taken into consideration.

[sua yai]

As Endure says,

The UK will want their pound of flesh.

However, depending on the situation, remember the 90 day rule. For once, that's nothing to with Thailand, but the days you're allowed back in the the good old UK in any tax year. You're allowed those 90 days but still claim Non Resident Status.

How the heck they ever know is beyond me. But, I believe that's the law.

[Fore Man]

It's simple to manage and avoids the whole can of worms involved in income verification.

So, tell me folks, what am I missing here?

I agree totally. Even if this means the loss of a few hundred dollars/pounds/whatever, it's worth it to avoid the hassle. Also, if you don't stay in Bangkok, you're going to spend money for hotels and travel expenses while getting embassy and MFA endorsements anyway.

Also, in the past couple of years I've been using baht that I bought at far more favorable exchange rates. Obviously that could go the other way, but over the course of a year you have some leeway as to when you choose to make those two or three transfers based on the current exchange rates.

Pardon me...reading all this with rapt interest....but where on the ThaiVisa forum can I go to learn exactly what is required now to get the MFA endorsement? I am about to renew my retirement visa and can qualify on either account--800K THB or 65K monthly pension. I live in Chiang Mai. From my personal vantage point, I'd prefer whatever method is the easist to employ and which requires the least hassle. Anyone have specific recent experience in CM?

We have not seen any reports from Cm that they require a certification of the Embassy income letter by the MFA.In any cases the requirement for the certification has been 'suggested' as a new requirement after October 1 and it hs been mentionned in Pattaya by the local British Counsul. Wether it will be nationwide we do not know.

At the present timeboth route income and balance or a combination are about the same hassle if you can get your income letter easy.

The balance route should be easier at this stage as there is no trip or cost for the income letter invloved only your bank records should be enough.

Some immigration offices even in that case will require a letter from the embassy certifying your adress.... but maybe not in CM. Check with them first is the best adviceif you live localy.

Thanks to RichardEllis and to Krub for their advice. I am going to CM Immigration this week to renew my retirement visa--3d extension. In the first extension in 2005--done at Bangkok via an agent--all I needed was the bank letter, photos, medical check and my passbook...plus some extra baht to ease things. That minor baakshish was not needed of course but it made it all pretty painless. I was in and out of the building in an hour. In 2006, which I accomplished in CM, the Immigration officer was easy to talk to and I had no problems at all. Took me about an hour. She only was interested in the bank letter plus a copy of my annual rental lease which verified my local address...plus the medical check which as I understand is no longer required. There was no requirement for an embassy letter last year attesting to my address. In preparation for my renewal on Thursday, I went to my bank today to get the new funds letter and they certified in explicit terms that my funds all were deposited originally by W/T. The balance has not dropped below 800K for over 3 years. Since I qualify on funds alone, I am going to try to ignore the income route this year.

This is all getting a little weird as nobody seems to have authoritative information on what is absolutely required....I suspect this is because Immigration authorities have issued clear requirements on what it takes to renew a Retirement Visa but many local officers around the Kingdom apply their own unique spin on those requirements, depending on the interpersonal vibes (or clashes) that occur between the Farang applicant and the interviewing official....or perhaps the applicant's SO, wife or agent. I play golf occasionally with a retired Immigration police general; he told me one day that 'there are so many rude Farangs who come to our offices and are poorly dressed too; it would be better for them to leave our country if they dislike it so much or fail to respect it". I could only agree with him as I too have seen much of the same. Scruffy-looking, threadbare, shorts and sandals-clad types with arrogant, 'jai ronn' attitudes who strut around as if they own this country, not vice versa.

Only my upcoming experience later this week will tell...I could be well eating crow by Saturday...but it has been my experience that being humble, friendly, non-adversarial, non-confrontational, using a smartly-dressed and friendly Thai wife to your advantage, over-preparing with what may prove to be unneeded paperwork, and taking the pains to dress for the occasion can mean all the difference in getting that visa extension easily or not so easily. We always have to bear in mind that we are guests here and are dealing with people that have, for the most part, decent personalities, but who are also very sensitive to heavy-handed foreigners demanding this and that as if it was a birthright. We'll see if I am right or wrong and I will make a post then to inform readers of what transpired. Please accept my apologies in advance for appearing to be pedantic but sometimes the posters who declaim that the the sky is falling and/or who belittle our Thai hosts just get the best of me. This site needs to stay rooted to what is real and not hypothetical or imagined. We rely on it for a source of valid information that is not easily available elsewhere and in English. Thanks for hearing me out and good luck as you deal with your own situations.

Follow-on to above post:

I went to Chiang Mai Immigration today to extend my retirement visa (3rd annual extension). We were in and out in 70 minutes and there was a healthy backlog of applicants waiting when we arrived at 8:40. Despite this, the procedure was painless...providing you bring all the needed documents, to wit: bank book, bank letter certifying your balance and also certifying that the funds originated outside of Thailand, passport, TM 7, Application for a Multiple Re-entry Permit (needed in my case due to my frequent travels), copy of rental lease (we are renting this year), original of landlord's signed ID card, copy of landlord's House Registration, THB 1900 for visa renewal and THB 3800 for Multiple Re-entry Permit. I had copied my passport tile page, current Multiple Re-entry Permit page and current immigration arrival stamp page. These were needed but the officer asked me to copy the latest TM6 stapled in my passport and its adjoing page showing the Re-entry Permit--as one copy page. They have a photocopy service a few steps away and that took all of 30 seconds to accomplish. I gave them copies of my 5-year Thai driving license and my U.S. military retired ID. The latter two documents are not required but the officer wanted them nonetheless. We were treated politely, deferentially and with excellent, quick service. One could not have asked for anything better. According to the Police captain and her senior sargeant who handled my case, they both stated that the renewal process is completely unchanged this year (for 800K THB renewals; I did not show evidence of pensions) and that process is very quick IF you bring the correct documentation. And yes, all of the interpersonal stuff, your dress and mannerisms weigh importantly too, but if you come in short of the required paperwork and still act politely to them, they will probably still ask you just as politely to go home and retrieve it. My advice: go into Immigration a week or two prior to sort out exactly what you will need; you'll then you'll be able to arrive on your renewal day with no hassles or unexpected events. I hope this is helpful to applicants who are planning to renew their retirement visas soon. I can't speak for other venues, but Chiang Mai offers superb, uncomplicated and professional service.

[astral]

Any income generated in the UK will be taxed in the UK - after your annual tax allowance is taken into consideration.

Anyone leaving the UK should investigate the offshore banking side of their bank,

either in the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man.

This way the UK and European taxes (EUSTD) can be avoided.