Faulty Door Seal Causes Discomfort On Jetstar Flight

[peter991]

Faulty door seal causes discomfort on Jetstar flight

A faulty door seal caused many passengers on board a Bangkok–Melbourne Jetstar flight last week, where it was said to have caused a loud persistent sound throughout the whole flight, reported ABC News.

A spokesperson for Jetstar admitted that there was a problem with the middle left-hand door, but that it only affected passengers near to the door, and that the issue did not pose a safety threat.

She said that the airline was sorry, and that passengers on the flight would be given a Jetstar voucher to make up for it.

The fault allegedly started not long after take-off, and one witness commented that passengers were not given earplugs unless they were specifically requested.

The plane in question went under repairs over the weekend.

* Note from Peter: This is the 2nd incident on the BKK-MEL sector in 2 weeks by budget airline Jetstar. Previously one engine of a 3 week old Airbus shutdown and the plane made an emergency landing at Bali. Passengers arrived in Melbourne 17 hours late.

Just a question to those in the airline industry - maintenance side - How dangerous would a faulty door seal have been? Could the door fly open and the plane depressurise?

Peter

[cdnvic]

It's not going to cause the door to fly open.

[midas]

Faulty door seal causes discomfort on Jetstar flight

A faulty door seal caused many passengers on board a Bangkok–Melbourne Jetstar flight last week, where it was said to have caused a loud persistent sound throughout the whole flight, reported ABC News.

A spokesperson for Jetstar admitted that there was a problem with the middle left-hand door, but that it only affected passengers near to the door, and that the issue did not pose a safety threat.

She said that the airline was sorry , and that passengers on the flight would be given a Jetstar voucher to make up for it.

The fault allegedly started not long after take-off, and one witness commented that passengers were not given earplugs unless they were specifically requested.

The plane in question went under repairs over the weekend.

* Note from Peter: This is the 2nd incident on the BKK-MEL sector in 2 weeks by budget airline Jetstar. Previously one engine of a 3 week old Airbus shutdown and the plane made an emergency landing at Bali. Passengers arrived in Melbourne 17 hours late.

Just a question to those in the airline industry - maintenance side - How dangerous would a faulty door seal have been? Could the door fly open and the plane depressurise?

Peter

considering this airline is an offshoot of Qantas it just shows how standards

have deteriorated There would have been no question in the

days before Jetstar - I could never have seen a Qantas captain being willing

to continue to fly the plane under the circumstances. Qantas captains

simply had the mentality they were not prepared to take any risk

that could potentially endanger the passengers. Now I've heard this

I'm definitely not going to fly with them

[midas]

It's not going to cause the door to fly open.

With all due respect to you cdnvic are you qualified to make such a statement ?

Maybe the door wont " fly open " as you say but how do you know

it couldn't lead to a related failure during flight ?

But apart from that the issue in this case is surely what sort of defects

are appropriate for the captiain to continue flying the plane ? Has now come down

to the crew obviously making an arbitrary decision mid flight ?

I'm sure you are the least agree the plane is not supposed to fly with a

faulty door seal ?

[Crossy]

It's not going to cause the door to fly open.

Agreed, aircraft doors are 'plug doors' which must move inwards before swivelling out, there is no way that a door can blow open or even be opened in flight (unless the aircraft is fully de-pressurised). Unlike the doors on your car, aircraft doors dont form part of the structure, disregarding pressurisation problems the structure is not compromised if the door is missing.

Since the seal even if non-existant, would only leave a small area for air to escape the pressurisation system would easily be able to cope with the additional load (there is already a BIG hole at the back letting stale air out anyway). The only issue is the noise.

NOTE The above does not apply to cargo doors which can and have pop open in flight.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Crossy

[cdnvic]

It's not going to cause the door to fly open.

With all due respect to you cdnvic are you qualified to make such a statement ?

Yes.

Please read Crossy's explanation.

Edited August 7, 2007 by cdnvic

[petecooper]

considering this airline is an offshoot of Qantas it just shows how standards

have deteriorated There would have been no question in the

days before Jetstar - I could never have seen a Qantas captain being willing

to continue to fly the plane under the circumstances. Qantas captains

simply had the mentality they were not prepared to take any risk

that could potentially endanger the passengers. Now I've heard this

I'm definitely not going to fly with them

That is a hysterical knee-jerk reaction. I guess you'll be catching the bus from now on.

[cdnvic]

The captain didn't land because he knew this was an annoyance, not a danger. No doubt earplugs should have been offered (they're about 0.30 in bulk) but that door was never going to open, and the passengers were never in danger.

However, if the incident encourages those who panic and start getting hysterical over minor things to go to other airlines, it can only make this one just that much safer.

[midas]

considering this airline is an offshoot of Qantas it just shows how standards

have deteriorated There would have been no question in the

days before Jetstar - I could never have seen a Qantas captain being willing

to continue to fly the plane under the circumstances. Qantas captains

simply had the mentality they were not prepared to take any risk

that could potentially endanger the passengers. Now I've heard this

I'm definitely not going to fly with them

That is a hysterical knee-jerk reaction. I guess you'll be catching the bus from now on.

you might consider it a " knee-jerk reaction " but I don't It's just

a recognition that this sort of thing can be the thin end of the wedge cut

price flying ? It's sloppy standards and we are seeing the results of this

increasingly on television news. Like i said - the flight crew of theQantas Airways which I flew

many many times on the kangaroo route would never have accepted these standards.

[flightcrew1]

As flight crew on 747's I am surprised that the Captain did fly. Even though I'm sure the door was fine - but the slack the airline knew it would get later would be enough to ground the flight. Jetstar knew that it would be cheaper to fix in Australia as they don't have maintenance base here and must contract out work to BA or QF.

[midas]

As flight crew on 747's I am surprised that the Captain did fly. Even though I'm sure the door was fine - but the slack the airline knew it would get later would be enough to ground the flight. Jetstar knew that it would be cheaper to fix in Australia as they don't have maintenance base here and must contract out work to BA or QF.

My point exactly

[dekka007]

I thought the door seal went after departure therefore I agree with the Capt. decision to continue with pressurisation normal. Not worth a return.

I would have got the pax moved to other seats or perhaps use crew jumpseats to escape the noise until prior to descent if no pax seats available.

Edited August 7, 2007 by dekka007

[midas]

Well there are indeed a number of complacent would be passengers

on this board ! All I know is that I'm a bit more discerning regarding

safety standards and I'm not the only one by the books of things...............................

Sunday May 23, 12:10 PM

Engineers advertise aircraft safety concerns

Aircraft engineers have ramped up their safety campaign concerning Australia's new low-cost carrier Jetstar.

The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association has taken out newspaper advertisements in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne today.

Association federal secretary David Kemp says the public should be aware that Jetstar is taking shortcuts by not using engineers to do pre-flight safety inspections.

"Our concern is in Australia we have one of the highest safety standards in the world for aviation and we believe this is a safety shortcut," he said.

"I wouldn't say it's unsafe [but] we believe it's operating at a standard lower than the other operators in the Australian industry

[cdnvic]

Complacency in this case is just a little knowledge and a lot less uninformed worrying.

[richard_smith237]

I know a member of cabin crew on a follow on a flight with the same plane.

Follwing the Bangkok Melbourne flight, the plane was turned around for its next flight. The flight from Melbourne to Bali was delayed a few hours while trying to fix the door seal. It couldn’t be fixed but the plane was deemed safe to fly regardless.

The apparent issue here was the noise. As I understand it, the door in question was half way down the cabin and passengers were seated towards the front and rear of the plane away from the noise. However the cabin crew were still required to prepare meals etc in the galley and had to work in the noise.

Again, as I understand it, after the BKK-MEL flight, 3 of the cabin crew were taken to hospital with ‘high pitch ringing’ in their ears….

I’ve told my friend, if she is aware of anything like this in the future – it should be within her rights not to fly.

[midas]

Complacency in this case is just a little knowledge and a lot less uninformed worrying.

No cdnvic you are still failing to understand my point

It's not whether the door could blow open or not - it is the fact that this event

is yet another indication Jetstar is perhaps cutting corners on safety matters ?

I don't know how much flying you have done

in Australia or on Qantas ? I have been a member

of the Qantas Club for 10 years I have flown on them considerably.

Qantas used to have the highest

safety record of any airline -in fact safety and avoiding unnecessary risks

was almost part of their brand name. I can remember several occasions

where Qantas pilots aborted take off at the last-minute for what may have

sounded to some as being the most trivial defects- but the captain would

remind passengers that is what gave this airline its exceptional reputation

and that it was better to be safe than sorry. Qantas 10 years ago

would never have continued with something like this .

Jetstar has come along and in every sense of the word is all about cutting

costs - I just think it's great shame if it tarnishes an airline with such

an enviable safety record.

[Nignoy]

All this worry about a faulty door seal Its the draughty Outside toilets on jetstar flights that I have a problem with Nignoy

[cdnvic]

No cdnvic you are still failing to understand my point

It's not whether the door could blow open or not - it is the fact that this event

is yet another indication Jetstar is perhaps cutting corners on safety matters ?

This isn't a safety issue, it's a noise issue. The aircraft was never in any danger.

[Who, me ?]

No cdnvic you are still failing to understand my point

It's not whether the door could blow open or not - it is the fact that this event

is yet another indication Jetstar is perhaps cutting corners on safety matters ?

This isn't a safety issue, it's a noise issue. The aircraft was never in any danger.

I totally agree with this !

A noise issue needs to be dealt with, and earplugs as well as apologies could have been provided ;-)

[dekka007]

This isn't a safety issue, it's a noise issue. The aircraft was never in any danger.

Nothing more needs to be said. It was safe.

[jetjock]

As most of you probably know, the doors in pressurized passenger aircraft are plug type doors. Sometimes the noise caused by a slightly faulty seal may start when the aircraft initially takes off but usually stops as the aircraft begins to climb out and pressurization builds up against the door causing the door to seal tighter. If it does not stop of course the noise can be unbearable to people in the aircraft. It is a noise issue but is not a serious safety issue in the sense of the door opening in flight or massive loss of pressurization. Since most pressurized passenger aircraft have about an 8.6 psi differential between the inside and outside of the aircraft once at higher altitudes, it would be impossible to open the door no matter how strong you think you are. Passengers opening doors in flight when the aircraft is pressurized only happens in the movies but is impossible in real life.

[jetjock]

As a point of possible interest, I should point out that there was one real life major exception what I said in my previous post about not being able to exit through a door in flight. The exception was a guy named D.B. Cooper, who in 1971 hijacked and threatened to blow up an airliner, extorted $200,000 from its owner, Northwest Orient, then leaped from the airborne 727 with 21 pounds of $20 bills strapped to his torso. He left the aircraft by extending the aft airstair and exiting via the rear door.

The airlines and Boeing immediately corrected this problem in the 727 and a safety switch was wired in which prevents extending the aft airstair in flight.

[skippybangkok]

As most of you probably know, the doors in pressurized passenger aircraft are plug type doors. Sometimes the noise caused by a slightly faulty seal may start when the aircraft initially takes off but usually stops as the aircraft begins to climb out and pressurization builds up against the door causing the door to seal tighter. If it does not stop of course the noise can be unbearable to people in the aircraft. It is a noise issue but is not a serious safety issue in the sense of the door opening in flight or massive loss of pressurization. Since most pressurized passenger aircraft have about an 8.6 psi differential between the inside and outside of the aircraft once at higher altitudes, it would be impossible to open the door no matter how strong you think you are. Passengers opening doors in flight when the aircraft is pressurized only happens in the movies but is impossible in real life.

OK, lets ask a simple question, how many of the passengers sitting close to that door have a degree or exposure to aeronautics ? In my assessment, its nothing to do with structural integrity, its more about the feeling of passengers, some of whom are shit scared of flying to start off with, and then ( due to their lack of knowledge), wondering if the door is going to fall out.

My sister would be pooping her pants ( she panics with the slightest of turbulence).

I remember my first trip in a 777, after take off, the engines had this amazing clanking drone noise, very loud. Even as a Aero Engineer, I was worried ( i left the industry way before the 777 came out and did not keep track of new developments). Even talked to the crew, who assured me it was ok.

Sure enough, on stable climb and cruise the noise went away.

Its about perception, not engineering.

Edited August 8, 2007 by skippybangkok

[midas]

This isn't a safety issue, it's a noise issue. The aircraft was never in any danger.

A matter of interpretation I would say ........................

" Again, as I understand it, after the BKK-MEL flight, 3 of the cabin crew were taken to hospital with ‘high pitch ringing’ in their ears…." - or doesnt the health and safety of the cabin crew count

[Ricardo]

I thought the door seal went after departure therefore I agree with the Capt. decision to continue with pressurisation normal. Not worth a return.

A pressurisation problem would surely only become apparent some minutes into the flight, after the aircraft had gained altitude, and lower air-pressure outside began to cause cabin-air to escape through the faulty seal.

So the problem with the seal may well have already existed, and not failed after takeoff, and might even have been reported on the inbound flight. Was it ???

[Ricardo]

Its the draughty Outside toilets on jetstar flights that I have a problem with Nignoy

Forget the dunny - just wait for their genuine Aussie outdoor-BBQ experience !

[midas]

I thought the door seal went after departure therefore I agree with the Capt. decision to continue with pressurisation normal. Not worth a return.

A pressurisation problem would surely only become apparent some minutes into the flight, after the aircraft had gained altitude, and lower air-pressure outside began to cause cabin-air to escape through the faulty seal.

So the problem with the seal may well have already existed, and not failed after takeoff, and might even have been reported on the inbound flight. Was it ???

And then the next question becomes - if they did know, how long did they know about it and for how long

were they prepared to keep flying the plane knowing the problem existed ? After all

we now know from the flight crew member on this thread they used it immediately after for another flight.

We now also know that during this whole period the plane was not inspected

by an aeronautical engineer..................................

[Phil Conners]

It's not going to cause the door to fly open.

Is there any subject you're not an instant expert in?

[midas]

It's not going to cause the door to fly open.

Is there any subject you're not an instant expert in?

Yes indeed and I doubt even an Australian licensed aeronautical engineer

would be so naive us to come out with a statement " The aircraft was never in any danger "

maybe they do things differently in Canada

[Who, me ?]

It's not going to cause the door to fly open.

Is there any subject you're not an instant expert in?

Have to rekon that cdnvic's comment was quite accurate, was the first after OP's post, and it makes me feel that he knows what he's talking about. So in this field, yes I would consider his "expertise" as valid !!!