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Posted (edited)

 

I am organizing a study group for expats who want to practice Thai reading and vocabulary at intermediate level, approximately ป.๓-๔-๕
(Sorry, not for beginners.)

 

Meet once a week in a quiet coffee shop in a central location.
Focused practice and vocabulary drill, (not random conversation).
Bring your own vocabulary lists, with several copies to pass around.
Discuss word meanings, pronunciation, and "register".

 

The unique idea of this group is to apply principles of Kaizen and "Lean" to improve the process of learning a foreign language.
Apply ideas of Paul Akers and Norm O'Hara to language learning.
(As far as I know, this has never been done before.)


Will begin with "morning meeting" (but sitting, not standing, thank you very much).

Then apply "3S" and 2-second lean to learning vocabulary and developing reading fluency.

 

No charge.
Not a business in any way.
(Just pay for your own coffee.)

 

Questions welcome here on the public forum,
but interested queries only by PM/DM please.

 

Edited by Old Curmudgeon
Posted
52 minutes ago, Polaky said:

No need to learn Thai, I understand her perfectly just by observing her hand gestures and the tone of her voice.😀

 

@Polaky's post brings up another point that I need to clear up:

 

The purpose of this group is NOT learning the language for casual conversation.

 

The goal here is:

1 - VOCABULARY ACQUISITION by drill and practice (with others at a similar level.)

2 - IMPROVE the learning process using "Kaizen" methods.

 

If one's goal is just to talk with Thai ladies, this is not a good fit.

But if your goal is to expand your vocabulary and fluency, this could be a good fit.

 

Basic understanding of Kaizen methods is required to understand the process.

Without that understanding, it would be a waste of time for all involved.

 

I will mention again to emphasize:

This will try to apply Kaizen and Lean methods to language learning.

As far as I know, this has never been done before.

 

For several years now, I have been trying to do that in my own language lessons.

However, there is a big problem:

The concept of "process improvement" is anathema to Thai culture.

Both of my private teachers get upset when I even hint at improving learning techniques, "This is the way we do it in Thailand!"

 

So, I'm posting here looking for other expats who also want to improve their own language learning process.

 

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Posted
7 hours ago, Dante99 said:

If you want to learn Thai, study with a Thai teacher.  

Some of the best tips I have received through the years were from foreigners who were a few steps ahead of me - - they knew where my stumbles might be and how to overcome - -  

  • Agree 1
Posted
2 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

 

@Polaky's post brings up another point that I need to clear up:

 

The purpose of this group is NOT learning the language for casual conversation.

 

The goal here is:

1 - VOCABULARY ACQUISITION by drill and practice (with others at a similar level.)

2 - IMPROVE the learning process using "Kaizen" methods.

 

If one's goal is just to talk with Thai ladies, this is not a good fit.

But if your goal is to expand your vocabulary and fluency, this could be a good fit.

 

Basic understanding of Kaizen methods is required to understand the process.

Without that understanding, it would be a waste of time for all involved.

 

I will mention again to emphasize:

This will try to apply Kaizen and Lean methods to language learning.

As far as I know, this has never been done before.

 

For several years now, I have been trying to do that in my own language lessons.

However, there is a big problem:

The concept of "process improvement" is anathema to Thai culture.

Both of my private teachers get upset when I even hint at improving learning techniques, "This is the way we do it in Thailand!"

 

So, I'm posting here looking for other expats who also want to improve their own language learning process.

 

Are you aware of the AUA Chiang Mai Thai language courses?

https://www.expatden.com/thailand/thai-language-school-review-aua-chiang-mai/

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, placnx said:

 

Thanks, @placnx for posting about AUA.

Some readers of this thread are likely to be interested in that.

 

But this thread is not about conventional language courses such as AUA.

It is not a language course.

I tried to make that clear in my posts above.

But if questions remain about the difference between this and conventional classes, welcome to ask here.

 

In addition there is the requirement to be familiar with Kaizen methods.

That is surely not part of any conventional language course.

 

 

Edited by Old Curmudgeon
  • Haha 1
Posted
12 hours ago, Dante99 said:

If you want to learn Thai, study with a Thai teacher.  

That just so happens to be my wife and the neighbors I run into while walking around the neighborhood and at the local kad.

  • Agree 1
Posted (edited)

It can't be that I am the only expat in the Chiang Mai area who wants to improve fluency in Thai language.

But so far on this topic, not even one interested inquiry.

Not one.

 

Seemed to me like a valuable opportunity to team up with other expats nearby who are interested in learning the language to a higher level.

And doing so by using an efficient and "Lean" process.

 

But, on this thread so far, only "snarky" or un-informed replies.

No serious inquiries in direct messages at all.

 

Oh, well, I'm continuing alone, as best I can.

The "Lean" method is working for me, albeit slowly and in fits and starts.

And the worst part: my Thai private teachers really don't like the concept of improving the learning process.

I wish they did, but that's not "how we do it in Thailand".

 

 

Edited by Old Curmudgeon
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Posted
1 hour ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

It can't be that I am the only expat in the Chiang Mai area who wants to improve fluency in Thai language.

But so far on this topic, not even one interested inquiry.

Not one.

 

Seemed to me like a valuable opportunity to team up with other expats nearby who are interested in learning the language to a higher level.

And doing so by using an efficient and "Lean" process.

 

But, on this thread so far, only "snarky" or un-informed replies.

No serious inquiries in direct messages at all.

 

Oh, well, I'm continuing alone, as best I can.

The "Lean" method is working for me, albeit slowly and in fits and starts.

And the worst part: my Thai private teachers really don't like the concept of improving the learning process.

I wish they did, but that's not "how we do it in Thailand".

 

 

What is the "Lean method"  that you refer to?  I don't recall hearing of that before.  

Posted
15 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

I should have made the OP more specific:

 

This group is for practice and drill to gain fluency in vocabulary.

And for using methods of Kaizen and Lean to make improvements in learning vocabulary.

 

Not intended as a substitute for learning with a Thai native-speaker.

Also not intended as a substitute for beginner lessons.

 

To participate in this small group, must already be fluent in Thai alphabet and tone rules and understand the language concept of "register".

 

And, also...

 

What prerequisite vocabulary knowledge is required?

Minimum of 5000 words?

Or, what is the minimum?

 

 

  • Haha 2
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, radiochaser said:

What is the "Lean method"  that you refer to?  I don't recall hearing of that before.  

 

I am NOT trying to promote, sell, or evangalize LEAN.

 

LEAN is a method of process engineering / industrial engineering sometimes used in factories or offices.


I have been using it to improve my methods of learning Thai language.
This thread is to invite others to join me in doing that.

 

In all of Northern Thailand, I'll guess there might be 4-5 other expats who have any experience with LEAN methods.
1 or 2 of those might be actively learning Thai language.
It is those few that I am hoping to find on forums like this one and at Reddit, Facebook, and other social media.

 

Learning LEAN takes a lot of time -- similar to learning a musical instrument.
This group will not try to teach it.
To join this group requires previous experience.
Real experience applying LEAN concepts, not just reading a book or watching a video.

 

 

 

Edited by Old Curmudgeon
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

What prerequisite vocabulary knowledge is required?

Minimum of 5000 words?

Or, what is the minimum?

 

Your question about word count is reasonable, but it leads in the wrong direction.

 

Words you already know don't matter in this process.
Instead, the focus is on the words you don't know, but want / need to know.
And on the process for learning them.

 

For example:
Right now I am struggling to learn / memorize / become fluent with words like these:

   แกล้ง
   ไกล่เกลี่ย
   พลัน
   ครัน
   ตระหนัก
   ระยะเวลา

 

What method would you suggest to learn such words to a level of fluency approaching that of a college-educated native speaker?


This small group will attempt to develop an efficient process for doing exactly that.

 

Nothing like this is ever taught in Thai language schools.
It can not be, because Thai culture is opposed to any concept of process improvement.
If you've been here even just a short time, you've heard, "This is the way we do it."
And / or, "Don't think too much."
Then conversation stops there.
And thinking stops there.

 

The purpose of my little group is to expand the thinking.
Thai people can't do that, because it is beyond the horizons of their psycho-epistemology.
So this group is open only to foreigners who've been raised in a different culture.

 

Japanese are intimately familiar with the concept of "Kaizen" = continuous improvement.

It is a wide spread concept in their culture.
I would be thrilled to find any Japanese interested in this little group.

 

 

Edited by Old Curmudgeon
  • Haha 1
Posted
55 minutes ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

For example:
Right now I am struggling to learn / memorize / become fluent with words like these:

   แกล้ง
   ไกล่เกลี่ย
   พลัน
   ครัน
   ตระหนัก
   ระยะเวลา

 

What method would you suggest to learn such words to a level of fluency approaching that of a college-educated native speaker?


This small group will attempt to develop an efficient process for doing exactly that.

 

I will not only suggest, but I will also COMMAND you to use the same most effective method that I use, and have used, for over a decade.

 

Namely:  ANKI...    

 

image.png.7f8a73203e76caaea25daeb7b195e8a9.png

 

https://apps.ankiweb.net/

 

Anki is best for vocabulary learning and retention, including Chinese vocabulary, Thai language vocabulary, and Medical terminology, including physiology and anatomy-course terminology. This app is the best, and used worldwide by medical students who need to learn difficult medical terminology and concepts in a hurry, and not forget.

 

There is no other similar app which is as good and versatile.

 

I thought all language learners knew about ANKI.

 

The algorithm of spaced-repetition is quite effective.  Also, I am aware of a few recalcitrant detractors that go on the internet and unfairly try to denigrate the great ANKI App, which works easily on Linux, Windows OS, and Apple, and, importantly on Android.

 

Of course, that Nutty Apple Company makes it so that ANKI is not free for the brainchild of that Control Freak Jobs (glad he is no longer with us), but this is Apple's fault...(as if the company did not have enough money as it is).

 

I use ANKI on Android and on Linux for free.  And, in the past I used it on Windows OS for free.

 

There are many Thai decks already created by others for free use.

But I create my own.

 

ANKI is a bit more complicated if one wishes to do more complex tasks, but it's also simple for beginners.

 

image.thumb.png.ae439981bc711902673f7308272f01dd.png

 

https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks?search=thai

 

I bet you didn't know that I know so much....right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Sad 2
Posted (edited)

I've been wondering who would be the first to mention ANKI.

Or to suggest flash cards.

 

Now that's been mentioned, I hope we can return to the thread topic.

Edited by Old Curmudgeon
  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

The purpose of my little group is to expand the thinking.
Thai people can't do that, because it is beyond the horizons of their psycho-epistemology.
So this group is open only to foreigners who've been raised in a different culture.

 

Japanese are intimately familiar with the concept of "Kaizen" = continuous improvement.

It is a wide spread concept in their culture.
I would be thrilled to find any Japanese interested in this little group.

 

Unfortunately, I have only long been familiar with this, having lived in Japan off and on since 1971....

 

image.png.571a4e48853256f27ffe8b5e7f981234.png

 

Maybe you are talking about Process Control....but I can't say for sure.

I doubt that you will get to college-level Thai, if you are talking about graduate-level Chula vocabulary level.

 

Chula already publishes a word list of Thai vocabulary from it's work at Chula.

 

By the way...

How long have you been studying Thai?

 

And, what methodology/strategy have you tried thus far?

 

 

 

 

  • Confused 1
Posted
6 minutes ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

I've been wondering who would be the first to mention ANKI.

Or to suggest flash cards.

 

Now that's been mentioned, I hope we can return to the thread topic.

 

If you did not want ANKI mentioned, then you should have expressly stated so in the OP.

 

And, the reason I mentioned ANKI is that you actually ASKED ME to tell you what strategy I thought best for doing vocab acquisition work.

 

Therefore, if you DO NOT want some subject broached, then PLEASE do NOT Ask for it....!!!!!!

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sounds like your little group is going to be a merry bunch, though.......for sure.....maybe.....

 

 

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Posted
Just now, Old Curmudgeon said:

 

Nope.

 

So....then....

 

One of my other strategies for learning Thai vocabulary is to....

NEVER study with FARANG.

Why would I wish to do this?

Especially when your proposed strategy for learning Thai Vocab has no justification, and no logic either....IMHO.

 

So, according to your ground rules stated by you:

 

I guess i will not be joining your Merry Bunch.

 

Still....wishing you good luck.....

 

But, I think you are engaged in a project similar to that of the famed....Sisyphus...

I mean THIS guy....

 

image.png.3215510b51f9e45770411d474aa0eb9b.png 

 

My final advice to you, though is to.....

Try to Remain Optimistic.....

 

 

 

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Posted

So ... then ...

If anyone seeing this is studying Thai at an Intermediate level,

AND has experience with LEAN process improvement,

I invite you to contact me by direct message.

  • Haha 2
Posted
On 12/3/2024 at 1:22 PM, Old Curmudgeon said:

 

@Polaky's post brings up another point that I need to clear up:

 

The purpose of this group is NOT learning the language for casual conversation.

 

The goal here is:

1 - VOCABULARY ACQUISITION by drill and practice (with others at a similar level.)

2 - IMPROVE the learning process using "Kaizen" methods.

 

If one's goal is just to talk with Thai ladies, this is not a good fit.

But if your goal is to expand your vocabulary and fluency, this could be a good fit.

 

Basic understanding of Kaizen methods is required to understand the process.

Without that understanding, it would be a waste of time for all involved.

 

I will mention again to emphasize:

This will try to apply Kaizen and Lean methods to language learning.

As far as I know, this has never been done before.

 

For several years now, I have been trying to do that in my own language lessons.

However, there is a big problem:

The concept of "process improvement" is anathema to Thai culture.

Both of my private teachers get upset when I even hint at improving learning techniques, "This is the way we do it in Thailand!"

 

So, I'm posting here looking for other expats who also want to improve their own language learning process.

 

Could you explain  what is the Kaizen method, please.

Posted
Just now, placnx said:

Could you explain  what is the Kaizen method, please.

 

Certainly.

I already wrote a bit about Kaizen method above.

Apparently not clear enough.

It means, "continuous improvement".

Everything and everywhere.

A conscious attempt to make any process better, and better,  and better.

Kaizen method never ends, is never finished.

Learning a language (or learning anything really) is a process.

Hence, the commonality with process engineering.

 

I've been applying Kaizen + Lean to my learning of Thai language.

Results have been pretty good.

Not stunning, but far better than results from any of several Thai language schools that I've attended.

 

But I want better results, and faster, so I posted here to find others of like mind hoping we could help together.

 

And there I will end my explanation of Kaizen.

I did not post here to promote that.

I'm only looking for other language learners who are already familiar with the Kaizen method.

Posted
13 minutes ago, placnx said:

Could you explain  what is the Kaizen method, please.

 

This is still in early development, I think.

The Kaizen method has never been used in this way.

This is a revolutionary approach, presumably.

 

Posted
3 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

This is still in early development, I think.

The Kaizen method has never been used in this way.

This is a revolutionary approach, presumably.

 

@GammaGlobulin is 100% correct about that.

 

It is my own idea to do this.

As far as I know, it's never been tried before.

 

But I've been doing this for about two years.

Results have been good, not earth-shaking, but pretty good.

So I posted here hoping to find a few others who were interested in helping each other.

 

Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

 

Certainly.

I already wrote a bit about Kaizen method above.

Apparently not clear enough.

It means, "continuous improvement".

Everything and everywhere.

A conscious attempt to make any process better, and better,  and better.

Kaizen method never ends, is never finished.

Learning a language (or learning anything really) is a process.

Hence, the commonality with process engineering.

 

I've been applying Kaizen + Lean to my learning of Thai language.

Results have been pretty good.

Not stunning, but far better than results from any of several Thai language schools that I've attended.

 

But I want better results, and faster, so I posted here to find others of like mind hoping we could help together.

 

And there I will end my explanation of Kaizen.

I did not post here to promote that.

I'm only looking for other language learners who are already familiar with the Kaizen method.

 

I found a nice intro concerning the  methodology of Lean & Kaizen, an intro which is not wasteful in itself, at all, and one which is simple for everyone to understand, even without your further explanation of this method of college-level Thai vocabulary acquisition.

 

Hope this might help to clarify this strategy because I found it interesting, too.

 

 

 

Edited by GammaGlobulin
Posted
6 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I will not only suggest, but I will also COMMAND you to use the same most effective method that I use, and have used, for over a decade.

 

Namely:  ANKI...    

The James Cagney approach

 

I'm an Anki Doodle Dandy

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