US Halts Military Aid to Ukraine Amid Push for Peace Talks

[SMIAI]

2 minutes ago, johng said:

 

You just called him a dumb, mental patient, raving nutter  and expect respect !

🤣

 

That is gleaned from evidence. Actual posting history over time. I don't see any intelligent discussion coming from those quarters, so I imagine they are either paid Trolls or just really stupid and unpleasant people.

I can only write honestly as to what I see.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

Trump has now cut off intelligence for the Ukraine, an excellent method to increase Ukrainian death and injury. trump has sunk to the low deaths of betrayal of Western Democratic and Rule of Law interests. As each day passes trump demonstrates he is unfit to Represent the Office of the President of the USA. One wonders if the Supreme Court now regrets absolving him from prosecution for any decisions whilst in power. Will anyone in the current US power structure stand up for decency and support against tyranny.?

Yeah, Zelenski should have just signed the agreement and mugged for the camera like he said he was going to do. 

 

The group that talked him out of it an hour before the meeting should be proud. 

 

On to Moscow! 

[SMIAI]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Trump has now cut off intelligence for the Ukraine, an excellent method to increase Ukrainian death and injury. trump has sunk to the low deaths of betrayal of Western Democratic and Rule of Law interests. As each day passes trump demonstrates he is unfit to Represent the Office of the President of the USA. One wonders if the Supreme Court now regrets absolving him from prosecution for any decisions whilst in power. Will anyone in the current US power structure stand up for decency and support against tyranny.?

 

His 'Art of the Deal' in full view. Coerce the Republicans to withhold aid in order to get Ukraine to lose more ground  and then to continue down that path as president, until he gets what he wants. 

If he is trying to get the world to despise Americans, he is doing a good job of it.

 

[SMIAI]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, Zelenski should have just signed the agreement and mugged for the camera like he said he was going to do. 

 

The group that talked him out of it an hour before the meeting should be proud. 

 

On to Moscow! 

 

Thank you for confirming, so quickly.

[SMIAI]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I know, if only I were as smart as you, I'd be *seething with hate for half the county. 

 

*I was going to say "a leftist", but I did not want you to get your panties all in a bunch again. 

 

Half what country?

Again, you are just projecting your own madness and weirdly altered perception. You see a divided country. I just see people.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, SMIAI said:

 

Half what country?

Again, you are just projecting your own madness and weirdly altered perception. You see a divided country. I just see people.

Oh dude, that is so 'effing deep. 

[Cameroni]

16 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Trump has now cut off intelligence for the Ukraine, an excellent method to increase Ukrainian death and injury. trump has sunk to the low depths of betrayal of Western Democratic and Rule of Law interests.

 

So you think Zelensky argued effectively in the oval office then?

[SMIAI]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Oh dude, that is so 'effing deep. 

 

It's what I see. Some strange people ranting against some unseen enemy, when in fact they are just having a discussion with everyday people.

Lose the Left/Right obsession and discuss the events. It's not one side against the other, unless the other is expressing themselves in such an extreme manner, that you could not possibly agree with them.

 

Try to discuss without attacking the person with whom you communicate, as a Leftist or Trump-hater etc

It's really nonsense, as you really have no idea about that person and it makes for a very unpleasant dialogue. Is that for what you are aiming? Just nasty barbs thrown at each other?

 

[James105]

19 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Trump has now cut off intelligence for the Ukraine, an excellent method to increase Ukrainian death and injury. trump has sunk to the low depths of betrayal of Western Democratic and Rule of Law interests. As each day passes trump demonstrates he is unfit to Represent the Office of the President of the USA. One wonders if the Supreme Court now regrets absolving him from prosecution for any decisions whilst in power. Will anyone in the current US power structure stand up for decency and support against tyranny.?

 

An excellent method to increase death and injury is to keep the war going by funding Ukraine with just enough to keep Russia entrenched.    The war is now closer to coming to an end than it has been since it started 3 years ago.  There was no end in sight until recently.  What has changed to make it this way do you think?  

 

For those of us who despise this war and think it is the most pointless waste of money and lives imaginable, Trump becoming president as a "good" thing as it is the first time someone has genuinely expressed a desire to bring it to an end.  

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

 

It's what I see. Some strange people ranting against some unseen enemy, when in fact they are just having a discussion with everyday people.

Lose the Left/Right obsession and discuss the events. It's not one side against the other, unless the other is expressing themselves in such an extreme manner, that you could not possibly agree with them.

 

Try to discuss without attacking the person with whom you communicate, as a Leftist or Trump-hater etc

It's really nonsense, as you really have no idea about that person and it makes for a very unpleasant dialogue. Is that for what you are aiming? Just nasty barbs thrown at each other?

 

Okay, I'll try.

 

I think we both support Ukraine, yes? And I think we would both love to see the Ukrainians march on Moscow, kill Putin and demand that Russia surrender, and Ukraine take back their borders and receive reparations, yes? 

 

But how does that happen? Ukraine had the support of the US, and the support of most of Europe, hundreds of billions in aid, and is at an effective stalemate after a million dead and wounded and after a quarter of Ukraine's population have fled the country. 

 

What is different now that additional aid is going to change? 

 

What is so terrible about attempting to negotiate a peace agreement with Russia?
 

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

An excellent method to increase death and injury is to keep the war going by funding Ukraine with just enough to keep Russia entrenched.    The war is now closer to coming to an end than it has been since it started 3 years ago.  There was no end in sight until recently.  What has changed to make it this way do you think?  

 

For those of us who despise this war and think it is the most pointless waste of money and lives imaginable, Trump becoming president as a "good" thing as it is the first time someone has genuinely expressed a desire to bring it to an end.  

 

Why not keep up intelligence sharing in an effort to reduce the deaths of a fellow Western Democratic nation rather than handing another advantage to the enemy whilst bullying an European state suffering invasion. Trump / Putin have yet to include Ukraine in peace negotiations so why think conclusion of the conflict is near when trump is handing over all the advantages to Russia at zero cost; it really does come across as extortion / appeasement which to date Zelensky has rejected.

[simple1]

25 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

So you think Zelensky argued effectively in the oval office then?

 

Reasonably so. I would guess he would have loved to punch out the two of them

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

Reasonably so. I would guess he would have loved to punch out the two of them

He'd likely had as much a chance as he playing in the NBA. 

 

[James105]

28 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Why not keep up intelligence sharing in an effort to reduce the deaths of a fellow Western Democratic nation rather than handing another advantage to the enemy whilst bullying an European state suffering invasion. Trump / Putin have yet to include Ukraine in peace negotiations so why think conclusion of the conflict is near when trump is handing over all the advantages to Russia at zero cost; it really does come across as extortion / appeasement which to date Zelensky has rejected.

 

Are countries that had a coup as recently as 2014 to overthrow a president considered "Democratic" now?  Since 2014 -2022 there has been a civil war on the eastern part of Ukraine resulting in 14,000 deaths before Russia got involved.   Did anybody care then?  Nope.  Before Russia got involved people were being killed.  After Russia got involved people were being killed.   The only involvement the west should have had is to sit down at a table with both sides, maybe bang some heads together and settle it with some kind of monitored democratic vote on this by the people who live in the contested areas.   

[SMIAI]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Okay, I'll try.

 

I think we both support Ukraine, yes? And I think we would both love to see the Ukrainians march on Moscow, kill Putin and demand that Russia surrender, and Ukraine take back their borders and receive reparations, yes? 

 

But how does that happen? Ukraine had the support of the US, and the support of most of Europe, hundreds of billions in aid, and is at an effective stalemate after a million dead and wounded and after a quarter of Ukraine's population have fled the country. 

 

What is different now that additional aid is going to change? 

 

What is so terrible about attempting to negotiate a peace agreement with Russia?
 

 

 

Starting your post with assumptions. it seems that you just cannot help yourself. Stop assuming what other people think and then using that as a basis of your arguments.

It's a discussion, not a zero sum game.

 

Ukraine wanted to be in a strong position to negotiate. Trump and the Republicans deliberately hobbled them under the pretence of caring about the American taxpayer. These are facts. They continue to sabotage Ukraine in order to coerce them into signing an unfavourable contract.

These are despicable acts. Maybe that is the way of the world, but let's not paint it as Trump wanting peace. That's just propaganda and political tricks. It is almost always about the resources and taking control of them. By hook or by crook.

[SMIAI]

40 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Are countries that had a coup as recently as 2014 to overthrow a president considered "Democratic" now?  Since 2014 -2022 there has been a civil war on the eastern part of Ukraine resulting in 14,000 deaths before Russia got involved.   Did anybody care then?  Nope.  Before Russia got involved people were being killed.  After Russia got involved people were being killed.   The only involvement the west should have had is to sit down at a table with both sides, maybe bang some heads together and settle it with some kind of monitored democratic vote on this by the people who live in the contested areas.   

 

No. Russia were involved from the beginning, but not officially. Just pretending it was some independent separatists who were being unfairly targeted by Ukrainians. You don't know what you are talking about. You should do some proper research, rather than watching RT News.

Doing deals with Ukraine independently of Russia. Under the Democrats, it was labelled as corruption. But under Trump, he's doing it as a "peacemaker". 

 

These people are just both sides of the same coin. You talk about Republicans and Democrats, but look at how chummy George Bush Jnr and Obama.  They often support the same goals and understand the rivalry between the countries. But Trump has come out on the Russian side, so neither of them even acknowledge him. He is seen as a traitor.

It's not about Left nor Right.

 

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

 

 

Starting your post with assumptions. it seems that you just cannot help yourself. Stop assuming what other people think and then using that as a basis of your arguments.

It's a discussion, not a zero sum game.

 

Ukraine wanted to be in a strong position to negotiate. Trump and the Republicans deliberately hobbled them under the pretence of caring about the American taxpayer. These are facts. They continue to sabotage Ukraine in order to coerce them into signing an unfavourable contract.

These are despicable acts. Maybe that is the way of the world, but let's not paint it as Trump wanting peace. That's just propaganda and political tricks. It is almost always about the resources and taking control of them. By hook or by crook.

Sorry, I'll try again.

 

I support Ukraine, and I would love to see the Ukrainians march on Moscow, kill Putin and demand that Russia surrender, and Ukraine take back their borders and receive reparations. 

 

But how does that happen? Ukraine had the support of the US, and the support of most of Europe, hundreds of billions in aid, and is at an effective stalemate after a million dead and wounded and after a quarter of Ukraine's population have fled the country. 

 

What "evidence" do you have that "Trump and the Republicans deliberately hobbled" Ukraine? Zelensky was in the meeting to sign an agreement Ukraine had previously approved. Who Zelensky to threaten the US? 

 

What is terrible about Ukraine partnering with the US on mining interests? 

 

Would US mining operations in Ukraine not provide Ukraine with additional security? 

 

Would US mining operations in Ukraine not help to deter Putin?  

 

Again, what is different now that additional aid is going to change? 

 

Again, what is so terrible about attempting to negotiate a peace agreement with Russia?

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

 

No. Russia were involved from the beginning, but not officially. Just pretending it was some independent separatists who were being unfairly targeted by Ukrainians. You don't know what you are talking about. You should do some proper research, rather than watching RT News.

Doing deals with Ukraine independently of Russia. Under the Democrats, it was labelled as corruption. But under Trump, he's doing it as a "peacemaker". 

 

These people are just both sides of the same coin. You talk about Republicans and Democrats, but look at how chummy George Bush Jnr and Obama.  They often support the same goals and understand the rivalry between the countries. But Trump has come out on the Russian side, so neither of them even acknowledge him. He is seen as a traitor.

It's not about Left nor Right.

 

Another evidence free post from you. You just can't help yourself, can you? 

[SMIAI]

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What "evidence" do you have that "Trump and the Republicans deliberately hobbled" Ukraine? Zelensky was in the meeting to sign an agreement Ukraine had previously approved. Who Zelensky to threaten the US? 

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/avdiivka-s-fall-intensifies-reactions-over-us-aid-package-for-ukraine/7492717.html

 

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What is terrible about Ukraine partnering with the US on mining interests? 

 

Nothing, they likely were going to do it anyway, once there was security of any possible investments. 

The difference here is the despicable behaviour of Trump and the Republicans in this case. This is what you fail to understand. It's just different faces at the trough and some rather unusual friendliness with Russia, that makes people somewhat uneasy.

 

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, what is different now that additional aid is going to change? 

 

The point was to get Ukraine in a strong negotiating position. Trump and the Republicans deliberately sabotaged that in Russia's favour and continues to do so in order to force Ukraine to sign without any security guarantees at all. 

Signing away the future of your country to someone like Trump? This is the man who just backed down over tariffs AGAIN. He is untrustworthy and a bad actor.

 

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, what is so terrible about attempting to negotiate a peace agreement with Russia?

 

What peace agreement with Russia? Can you show it to me?

 

 

 

 

[SMIAI]

27 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Another evidence free post from you. You just can't help yourself, can you? 

 

You cannot help Trolling can you? Is this your character in real life?

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 3/4/2025 at 4:21 PM, RuamRudy said:

Do you know what consensus means? Decisions must be unanimous.

Not so, at least in terms of Article 5, the mutual defence provision of the treaty.

 

Collective defence and Article 5

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/bu/natohq/topics_110496.htm

 

 

Quote

With the invocation of Article 5, Allies can provide any form of assistance they deem necessary to respond to a situation. This is an individual obligation on each Ally and each Ally is responsible for determining what it deems necessary in the particular circumstances.

 

In fact, as explained in that link, this wording was drawn up specifically at the request of the US, so as to avoid the situation where the US would be obliged to become involved in an Article 5 operation if they didn't want to be 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/avdiivka-s-fall-intensifies-reactions-over-us-aid-package-for-ukraine/7492717.html

So, you have no evidence. Just tell me, not need for links. 

3 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

Nothing, they likely were going to do it anyway, once there was security of any possible investments. 

The difference here is the despicable behaviour of Trump and the Republicans in this case. This is what you fail to understand. It's just different faces at the trough and some rather unusual friendliness with Russia, that makes people somewhat uneasy.

Do you think Trump was going to leave American mining interests unsecured? 

3 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

The point was to get Ukraine in a strong negotiating position. Trump and the Republicans deliberately sabotaged that in Russia's favour and continues to do so in order to force Ukraine to sign without any security guarantees at all. 

That train left the station a couple years ago. 

3 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

Signing away the future of your country to someone like Trump? This is the man who just backed down over tariffs AGAIN. He is untrustworthy and a bad actor.

Trump is the US? 

3 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

What peace agreement with Russia? Can you show it to me?

Did you not understand the question? 

[James105]

31 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

 

No. Russia were involved from the beginning, but not officially. Just pretending it was some independent separatists who were being unfairly targeted by Ukrainians. You don't know what you are talking about. You should do some proper research, rather than watching RT News.

Doing deals with Ukraine independently of Russia. Under the Democrats, it was labelled as corruption. But under Trump, he's doing it as a "peacemaker". 

 

These people are just both sides of the same coin. You talk about Republicans and Democrats, but look at how chummy George Bush Jnr and Obama.  They often support the same goals and understand the rivalry between the countries. But Trump has come out on the Russian side, so neither of them even acknowledge him. He is seen as a traitor.

It's not about Left nor Right.

 

 

The point I was trying to make is that this has nothing to do with the west.  Ukraine are not part of NATO so do not get the protection of NATO.   This continued funding of this war has cost many tens (hundreds) of thousands of lives.  Ukraine would have been overrun and surrendered on about day 3 or 4 and maybe dozens or maybe even hundreds would have been killed if foolish enough to fight and not just give up.   The end result is that some lines would be redrawn on a map as has happened hundreds if not thousands of times throughout history as a bigger force claims some territory.   After 3 years and many tens or hundreds of thousands killed, the same end result will occur.  

 

The continued lie that has been perpetuated is that Ukraine are the only thing stopping Putin from going full Hitler and will next try to conquer western Europe to justify the continued money laundering funding.   This is a lie that has no basis in reality.   The sooner this pointless charade is stopped the better and if not for Trump nobody would even be talking about the possibility of it ending.   

[SMIAI]

2 minutes ago, James105 said:

 The end result is that some lines would be redrawn on a map as has happened hundreds if not thousands of times throughout history as a bigger force claims some territory.   After 3 years and many tens or hundreds of thousands killed, the same end result will occur.  

 

In a world where resources matter, it's not just about 'some lines'.

 

So if Russia decided to take your country over, you would just smile meekly and carry on as normal?

It must be quite comfortable in that armchair of yours.

 

If they marched on Kiev and succeeded, where do you think those lines would have been drawn?

 

6 minutes ago, James105 said:

The continued lie that has been perpetuated is that Ukraine are the only thing stopping Putin from going full Hitler and will next try to conquer western Europe to justify the continued money laundering funding.   This is a lie that has no basis in reality.   The sooner this pointless charade is stopped the better and if not for Trump nobody would even be talking about the possibility of it ending.   

 

Of course, the whole thing was about money laundering. Now why didn't I think of that?

Can you explain it to me?

 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, SMIAI said:

 

In a world where resources matter, it's not just about 'some lines'.

 

So if Russia decided to take your country over, you would just smile meekly and carry on as normal?

It must be quite comfortable in that armchair of yours.

 

If they marched on Kiev and succeeded, where do you think those lines would have been drawn?

 

 

Of course, the whole thing was about money laundering. Now why didn't I think of that?

Can you explain it to me?

 

 

Russia has not decided to take my country over.

 

I do not want my son to fight and die in Russia. 

[SMIAI]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, you have no evidence. Just tell me, not need for links

 

In order for you to understand the evidence behind the link, you need to have attained a certain level of intelligence.

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you think Trump was going to leave American mining interests unsecured? 

 

He was asked about it and could not provide an answer. His answer of them having workers there would be enough security is clearly not enough for Europe and Ukraine. I guess, like your club member james105, you would prefer for them to capitulate.

 

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Trump is the US? 

 

Yes, he's the US president. Didn't you know?

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Did you not understand the question? 

 

Yes and I asked you about the details of the peace agreement with Russia. Are you aware of such an agreement and can you tell me what it contains?

[SMIAI]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Russia has not decided to take my country over.

 

I do not want my son to fight and die in Russia. 

 

For me, this is just conversation. We are just writing, seemingly far away from the reality. I am certainly not advocating war. We are simply discussing current events. I don't think we are going to affect the outcome and so I don't need to try to figure out a solution. Especially when I don't have all of the information.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

 

In order for you to understand the evidence behind the link, you need to have attained a certain level of intelligence.

Of course, if only I were smart enough, I would hate Trump the way you do and use Vox as a reference. 

 

Why can Trump haters never explain anything? Why are they only ever able to regurgitate links to other Trump haters? 

 

Come on, what evidence do you have that "Trump and the Republicans deliberately hobbled" Ukraine? No need to link, just explain it. But like all Trump haters, you can't, can you? 

2 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

He was asked about it and could not provide an answer. His answer of them having workers there would be enough security is clearly not enough for Europe and Ukraine. I guess, like your club member james105, you would prefer for them to capitulate.

He did provide a number of answers, but you had to watch the whole meeting, not just the last few minutes. 

2 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

Yes, he's the US president. Didn't you know?

Ha ha. The agreement would have been with the United States, not with Trump. Didn't you know? 

2 minutes ago, SMIAI said:

Yes and I asked you about the details of the peace agreement with Russia. Are you aware of such an agreement and can you tell me what it contains?

Apparently, you did not. The question was: What is so terrible about attempting to negotiate a peace agreement with Russia? 

 

Are you willing to answer or not? 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Of course, if only I were smart enough, I would hate Trump the way you do and use Vox as a reference. 

 

Why can Trump haters never explain anything? Why are they only ever able to regurgitate links to other Trump haters? 

 

Come on, what evidence do you have that "Trump and the Republicans deliberately hobbled" Ukraine? No need to link, just explain it. But like all Trump haters, you can't, can you? 

He did provide a number of answers, but you had to watch the whole meeting, not just the last few minutes. 

Ha ha. The agreement would have been with the United States, not with Trump. Didn't you know? 

Apparently, you did not. The question was: What is so terrible about attempting to negotiate a peace agreement with Russia? 

 

Are you willing to answer or not? 

Stupid question, and the rest of that diatribe is based on schoolboy wording.......🙄

 

[SMIAI]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Of course, if only I were smart enough, I would hate Trump the way you do and use Vox as a reference. 

 

Why can Trump haters never explain anything? Why are they only ever able to regurgitate links to other Trump haters? 

 

Come on, what evidence do you have that "Trump and the Republicans deliberately hobbled" Ukraine? No need to link, just explain it. But like all Trump haters, you can't, can you? 

He did provide a number of answers, but you had to watch the whole meeting, not just the last few minutes. 

Ha ha. The agreement would have been with the United States, not with Trump. Didn't you know? 

Apparently, you did not. The question was: What is so terrible about attempting to negotiate a peace agreement with Russia? 

 

Are you willing to answer or not? 

 

You've gone back into ranting mode again. Trump haters etc The hate comes from you. That's why you are ranting and becoming emotional.

For me, it's not personal. For you, you it seems as if you are defending your boyfriend.

We are simply discussing our perceptions of the world. If you are actually hating someone, that's a problem isn't it?

I replied to your questions. No point in ranting at me further. It's my opinion. There's no being perfectly right. We might be right on some things and wrong on others, simply because we don't see the big picture. But we have the luxury of being able to discuss them to the best of our ability without being the ones to make decisions that affect so many lives.

That would be far more interesting than the awful abuse that takes place here. Such an unpleasant environment 😊 Just throwing 💩 at each other all day. The real planet of the apes.