Tax Filing Experience: Jomtien [March-2025]

[Mindful Spender]

it all sound like that they are aggressively trying to scoop up as much money they can get from people to fund the government. 

[jesimps]

On 3/14/2025 at 5:04 PM, bamnutsak said:

 

Fully up to speed on the relevant DTA.

 

I think you missed the point of my question, which is unrelated to DTAs and quite simple...

 

 

If I have ZERO assessable income do I have to file a return?

 

 

In my opinion if I have zero assessable income then it doesn't have to be assessed and if it doesn't need assessing, then I don't need to file. I'd just be making work for people. If they have doubts about me, they can call me in for an audit. I don't want to chance some jobsworth taxing me on income already taxed, which in any case is covered by the DTA.

[jesimps]

On 3/14/2025 at 5:21 PM, jwest10 said:

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Posted April 22, 2024

There has been some debate over several months about who must file a tax return in Thailand, which I think  the TRD makes explicitly clear and is reflected in the Simple Tax Guide. I thought it might be useful however to also provide a quote from PWC on this subject which says:

 

"The following individuals are required to file income tax returns for income earned in the preceding tax year irrespective of whether there is any tax due:

 

• A person who has no spouse and earns income of more than Baht 60,000

• A person who has no spouse and earns income under category (1) (salaries and wages) of more than Baht 120,000

• A person who has a spouse and earns income of more than Baht 120,000

• A person who has a spouse and earns income under category (1) (salaries and wages) of more than Baht 220,000".

Even those who were mocked by the local DTA official for requesting a TIN to do exactly that and were sent packing I assume. You'd have to be mad to have another shot at it.

[Miloki]

My reading of the US-Thai DTA is that if I maintain my permanent home in the US (not rented out & continuously available to me) then I am a US Tax resident ONLY, even if I spend more than 180 days in Thailand.  

 

This is due to the 'tie-breaker' rule for those who might qualify as a tax resident in both jurisdictions.

Assuming only US based income is brought into Thailand I see no reason to get a Thai Tax ID and file a Thai tax return as the DTA makes it clear I am not a Thai tax resident.

 

Correct or does anyone disagree?

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Miloki said:

My reading of the US-Thai DTA is that if I maintain my permanent home in the US (not rented out & continuously available to me) then I am a US Tax resident ONLY, even if I spend more than 180 days in Thailand.  

 

This is due to the 'tie-breaker' rule for those who might qualify as a tax resident in both jurisdictions.

Assuming only US based income is brought into Thailand I see no reason to get a Thai Tax ID and file a Thai tax return as the DTA makes it clear I am not a Thai tax resident.

 

Correct or does anyone disagree?

Bull.

180 days in Thailand, then Thailand considers you a Thai tax resident.

[Miloki]

"The determination of residence for treaty purposes looks first to a person's liability to tax as a resident under the respective taxation laws of the Contracting States. As a general matter, a person who, under those laws, is a resident of one Contracting State and not of the other need look no further. That person is a resident for purposes of the Convention of the State in which he is resident under internal law. If, however, a person is resident in both Contracting States under their respective taxation laws, the Article proceeds, where possible, to assign a single State of residence to such a person for purposes of the Convention through the use of tie-breaker rules."

• 180 days qualifies you Thai Tax Residence
• Fed/State/Property Taxes/Car Reg puts you under USA Tax Residence

Tie breaker for determining Tax Residence is in this order:

1) Permanent Home available

2) Vital Interests

3) Habitual Abode

4) Citizenship

Seems clear unless I am missing something?
 

[JohnnyBD]

2 hours ago, Miloki said:

My reading of the US-Thai DTA is that if I maintain my permanent home in the US (not rented out & continuously available to me) then I am a US Tax resident ONLY, even if I spend more than 180 days in Thailand.

That's really interesting. I would love to hear JimGant's take on that point.

[motdaeng]

2 hours ago, Miloki said:

My reading of the US-Thai DTA is that if I maintain my permanent home in the US (not rented out & continuously available to me) then I am a US Tax resident ONLY, even if I spend more than 180 days in Thailand.  

 

good luck with that ... the thai tax law is very clear who is a tax resident in thailand ... btw, you can be tax resident in more than only one country ...

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

 

good luck with that ... the thai tax law is very clear who is a tax resident in thailand ... btw, you can be tax resident in more than only one country ...

That's clearly where he was confused. Indeed you can be tax resident of multiple countries at SAME TIME. 

 

Understanding Country of Tax Residence and Why it Matters

www.globalcitizensolutions.com/country-of-tax-residence/

[Miloki]

Read the link you just sent.  "When dual residency occurs..."

 

The USA-Thai DTA has precedence over Thai tax laws and the tie-breaker in the DTA determines where you are a tax resident if you meet the qualifications for tax residency in both countries.

 

This may be specific only to Americans and DTA's for other countries might have very different rules.

 

The only question I think now is whether or not the Thai RD requires a letter of U.S. Residency Certification (IRS Form 6166 received my submitting Form 8802).

 

Some countries do but I have not seen this requirement published anywhere in Thailand.  Probably best to just follow the DTA and consider the remitted money not accessible, but produce a 6166 if asked.  Not sure.

 

Here is the exact provision...

 

ARTICLE 4

Residence

1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "resident of a Contracting State" means any person who, under the laws of that State, is liable to tax therein by reason of his domicile, residence, citizenship, place of management, place of incorporation, or any other criterion of a similar nature. The term also includes that State and any political subdivision or local authority thereof. The term, however, does not include any person who is liable to tax in that State in respect only of income from sources in that State. For purposes of this paragraph, an individual who is not a resident of Thailand under this paragraph, and who is a United States citizen or an alien admitted to the United States for permanent residence (a "green card" holder) is a resident of the United States only if the individual has a substantial presence, permanent home or habitual abode in the United States. If such individual is a resident of Thailand under this paragraph, he shall be considered a resident of both Contracting States and his residence for purposes of the Convention shall be determined under paragraph 2.

 

  2. Where by reason of the provisions of paragraph 1, an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, then his status shall be determined as follows:

 

a) he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State in which he has a permanent home available to him; if he has a permanent home available to him in both States, he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State with which his personal and economic relations are closer (center of vital interests);

 

b) if the State in which he has his center of vital interests cannot be determined, or if he does not have a permanent home available to him in either State, he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State in which he has an habitual abode;

 

c) if he has an habitual abode in both States or in neither of them, he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State of which he is a national;

 

d) if he is a national of both States or of neither of them, the competent authorities of the Contracting States shall settle the question by mutual agreement.

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, Miloki said:

Seems clear unless I am missing something?

Well, looks like you're subject to the tie-breaker rules, being subject to Thai taxation by virtue of being in Thailand for 180 days, or more, in a calendar year. Plus, subject to US taxation, by virtue of being a US citizen.

 

And, you maintain a "permanent residence" in the US. So, let's assume you also have a permanent residence in Thailand -- your condo, a long term rental, or living at wife's home. We'll assume your stays in Thailand are NOT from hotel room to hotel room.... So, we can disregard the permanent residence tie breaker, as you have such residence in both countries.

 

So, I guess, it now comes down to how much time do you spend in each country. If only 180 days in Thailand, but 183 days in the US -- I guess your vital interests reside more in the US, as does your habitual abode. Thus, the last two tie breaker items give the nod to the US as your tax residence for DTA purposes.

 

But, if the majority of your time is in Thailand -- I think the vital interests and habitual abode criteria breaks the tie in Thailand's direction.

 

Interesting situation. And one, where if Thailand wins, a US citizen's cap gains could be adversely affected.