Another Electrical Question

[JimGant]

Our house's electrical system is grounded, and outlets have third 'grounding' hole. But most of our stuff, like TV, VCR, coffee maker, don't have three-pronged plugs. And in some cases (like, with my TV and computer box), I've gotten mild shocks.

Can I run a grounding wire from the TV and, essentially, jam it in the grounding hole in the receptacle? (yeah, I know, but I'm lazy). Seems simple enough, and why wouldn't it work if the 'jamming' assures good contact?

Why am I getting this mild shock? Also, would reversing the plug help, since maybe I've got the wrong polarity?

Anyone else have this problem? What's the probability of it being life-threatening?

Dumb about Electrons

[ASIC]

If you can find the ground/chassis of your electrical equipment, you can indeed run a wire and stuff it into gounding hole of the mains. Be carefull with your TV though. The chassis may not be ground. Instead use the outside "ring" on the antenna input.

I don't know if it's life-threatening, but for sure it can kill your electronics goods unless you plug everything in "with the power switched off". as they always write in the instruction manuals.

ASIC

[edd]

If you are going to work on any electrics you should follow

S ------ Switch off

I ------ Isolate

D ------ Dump

E ------- And Earth

No exemptions

[Englishman]

Be very very careful here. How old is the TV? On some older models, the antenna ring/chassis is floating at half mains voltage.

You really should get someone in who knows what they're doing. Make one error and you'd be out like a light.

Switch..........

[lopburi3]

Our house's electrical system is grounded, and outlets have third 'grounding' hole. But most of our stuff, like TV, VCR, coffee maker, don't have three-pronged plugs. And in some cases (like, with my TV and computer box), I've gotten mild shocks.

Can I run a grounding wire from the TV and, essentially, jam it in the grounding hole in the receptacle? (yeah, I know, but I'm lazy). Seems simple enough, and why wouldn't it work if the 'jamming' assures good contact?

Why am I getting this mild shock? Also, would reversing the plug help, since maybe I've got the wrong polarity?

Anyone else have this problem? What's the probability of it being life-threatening?

Dumb about Electrons

I have never seen a computer without a three pin plug so maybe someone put an adapter to two pin or cut off the original plug?

In any case you really should have ground fault protection for your home with a Safe-T-Cut or other ELB/RCB/GFI type breaker. It could save your life, especially when we walk around without shoes on tile or marble floors. Do that one thing and you should at least be safe from death.

You can run another wire from a screw in appliance chassis to ground but I would buy three pin plugs and either change cord to three wire, if easy to do, or tape a third wire to present cord and cut off old plug and use the new three pin plug.

I would NOT push electric wire into the ground hole as this may not be closed and if not that wire may easily cross a hot wire.

[paulfr]

Listen to Englishman's advice. Get a professional to fix

this problem, fast.

I am an Electronics Engineer and I would not fool

around with line voltage unless I was sure about

what I was doing (I design computer chips).

Many people have the misconception that only very

high voltages can KILL you, but 50 volts is plenty

to overcome skin resistance and put the needed

10 milliamps thru your heart to activate your will

and last testament.

No Joke, this can kill you if you're not careful

Get an electrician to ground things for you.

[john b good]

It's not quite as easy as just having an ELCB/RCB because to work these devices require a reference to earth.

And you might be surprised how many houses here simply don't have an earthing system.

The standard of electrical wiring in Thailand is shockingly (no pun intended) poor.

From what I have seen many of the so called electricians don't have any qualifications other than the bit of knowledge that they have picked up along the way.

The majority of developed countries require an examination (and registration) before a person can call himself an electrician. Likewise for a plumber.

One of the only measures that you can employ is to ensure that the current is switched off prior to doing as much as changing a light bulb.

But again just by turning off the main switch or breaker is no gaurantee that the current is isolated (I know of instances that a Thai "electrician" has hooked up

in between the main switch and the meter, i.e. the current is not off)

Providing you are prudent when doing anything 'electrical' here, it is probably safer than driving on the roads (but not a lot)

[lopburi3]

It's not quite as easy as just having an ELCB/RCB because to work these devices require a reference to earth.

And you might be surprised how many houses here simply don't have an earthing system.

The standard of electrical wiring in Thailand is shockingly (no pun intended) poor.

From what I have seen many of the so called electricians don't have any qualifications other than the bit of knowledge that they have picked up along the way.

The majority of developed countries require an examination (and registration) before a person can call himself an electrician. Likewise for a plumber.

One of the only measures that you can employ is to ensure that the current is switched off prior to doing as much as changing a light bulb.

But again just by turning off the main switch or breaker is no gaurantee that the current is isolated (I know of instances that a Thai "electrician" has hooked up

in between the main switch and the meter, i.e. the current is not off)

Providing you are prudent when doing anything 'electrical' here, it is probably safer than driving on the roads (but not a lot)

There is no need for a ground for protection. GFI/RCB/ELB all work by a change in the voltage between the hot and neutral wires. They do not require a ground and are not attached to any ground. I first installed GFI here in Bangkok in 1977 and the same unit is still working.

Agree with the rest of your comments. It is very hard to find good electricians and most have no knowledge of grounds as it is only within the last few years that anyone has used them here.

[Englishman]

It's not quite as easy as just having an ELCB/RCB because to work these devices require a reference to earth.

And you might be surprised how many houses here simply don't have an earthing system.

The standard of electrical wiring in Thailand is shockingly (no pun intended) poor.

From what I have seen many of the so called electricians don't have any qualifications other than the bit of knowledge that they have picked up along the way.

The majority of developed countries require an examination (and registration) before a person can call himself an electrician. Likewise for a plumber.

One of the only measures that you can employ is to ensure that the current is switched off prior to doing as much as changing a light bulb.

But again just by turning off the main switch or breaker is no gaurantee that the current is isolated (I know of instances that a Thai "electrician" has hooked up

in between the main switch and the meter, i.e. the current is not off)

Providing you are prudent when doing anything 'electrical' here, it is probably safer than driving on the roads (but not a lot)

There is no need for a ground for protection. GFI/RCB/ELB all work by a change in the voltage between the hot and neutral wires. They do not require a ground and are not attached to any ground. I first installed GFI here in Bangkok in 1977 and the same unit is still working.

Agree with the rest of your comments. It is very hard to find good electricians and most have no knowledge of grounds as it is only within the last few years that anyone has used them here.

You DO need a grounding for the circuit breaker to work properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the metal chassis went live through poor wiring, this would not trigger the circuit breaker if there was no reference to ground!!!

[lopburi3]

You DO need a grounding for the circuit breaker to work properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the metal chassis went live through poor wiring, this would not trigger the circuit breaker if there was no reference to ground!!!

In that case you provide the ground when you touch the chassis and it trips before you die. You do not have to be a good ground as it is not looking for a ground. When there is a difference in the current between hot and neutral wires of more that it is rated (should be under 25ma) it will trip.

I am not advising use of GFI only but when you have no ground it will still work. So if you have a proper grounded system you have the added protection of it tripping before you touch it (as the chassis ground will trip it).

The point is the breaker does not require a grounded system to work and save lives. Many items in the home are not normally grounded (lamps/small appliances etc) and the GFI/RCB/ELB will protect you if they become hot.

[Firefoxx]

Most Thai homes don't have a ground since that's just the way Thailand is. However, new laws (AFAIK) require that all new buildings have ground. The flip side is that nearly all electrical appliances don't have a ground plug, since most of Thailand doens't have the outlet for it.

I haven't had any problem with my VCR or TV, but I've had minor shocks from my computer and microwave. The solution I use for my computer is to use a small carpet in the computer work area. The carpet serves as insulation and hence you don't get any more nasty surprises. Use wall to wall, and you shouldn't have any problems.

One thing I really hate about Thai houses: most electrical wiring is exposed. Very ugly.

[JimGant]

Thanks all for the advice. And it is a brand new TV (but made in Thailand )

Lop,

In any case you really should have ground fault protection for your home with a Safe-T-Cut or other ELB/RCB/GFI type breaker

Where is this installed? Adjacent to the breaker box? In the breaker box? What's the size? Sounds like the same principal as what's on my wife's hairdryer, which is non-grounded (two-prong) but has a GFI apparatus on the power cord.

New question. My micowave and coffeemaker plugs are two-pronged (round prongs, not blades), but where the third ground prong should be, there's a hole surrounded by a flat medal gismo. I've seen many appliances with such plugs, but can't figure out what I'm seeing(?). What's the purpose of this hole? Is it vacant in case your wall receptacle has no grounding hole? If so, it would seem my appliances would have come with a detachable third prong I could insert -- but they didn't. Does someone sell such detachable prongs?

Thanks again.

[lopburi3]

Thanks all for the advice. And it is a brand new TV (but made in Thailand )

Lop,

In any case you really should have ground fault protection for your home with a Safe-T-Cut or other ELB/RCB/GFI type breaker

Where is this installed? Adjacent to the breaker box? In the breaker box? What's the size? Sounds like the same principal as what's on my wife's hairdryer, which is non-grounded (two-prong) but has a GFI apparatus on the power cord.

New question. My micowave and coffeemaker plugs are two-pronged (round prongs, not blades), but where the third ground prong should be, there's a hole surrounded by a flat medal gismo. I've seen many appliances with such plugs, but can't figure out what I'm seeing(?). What's the purpose of this hole? Is it vacant in case your wall receptacle has no grounding hole? If so, it would seem my appliances would have come with a detachable third prong I could insert -- but they didn't. Does someone sell such detachable prongs?

Thanks again.

You can buy types that fit in the breaker box or the simple fix is between the main breaker/fuse and the box. It would have to be rated the same as your main breaker.

Those three pin plugs (without the pin) will have a metal strip on the side which is ground. I have not found any adapters to plug directly into the pin hole but Home Pro sells clip on units that connect the side strip to a third pin at about 50 baht each (expensive but worth it).

[john b good]

Thanks all for the advice. And it is a brand new TV (but made in Thailand )

Lop,

In any case you really should have ground fault protection for your home with a Safe-T-Cut or other ELB/RCB/GFI type breaker

Where is this installed? Adjacent to the breaker box? In the breaker box? What's the size? Sounds like the same principal as what's on my wife's hairdryer, which is non-grounded (two-prong) but has a GFI apparatus on the power cord.

New question. My micowave and coffeemaker plugs are two-pronged (round prongs, not blades), but where the third ground prong should be, there's a hole surrounded by a flat medal gismo. I've seen many appliances with such plugs, but can't figure out what I'm seeing(?). What's the purpose of this hole? Is it vacant in case your wall receptacle has no grounding hole? If so, it would seem my appliances would have come with a detachable third prong I could insert -- but they didn't. Does someone sell such detachable prongs?

Thanks again.

Yes the third hole (normally with no pin) can used if the wall socks have a thierd hole also.

But bear in mind that the wall socket third hole may be just that (a hole that goes nowhere/connected to nothing. Remember 'TIT' )

On the subjet of the current protection devices I don't concur entirely with you 'lopburi3' particularly in respect of the ELCB's as this device is triggered by current leakage to earth.

If there is no reference to earth the device will either not trip or if it does not in the time necessary to protect you.

The RCD's (residual current devices) work in a different way and quite possibly not require an earth reference.

[bonsaimax]

I agree that hiring a professional electrician is the best way to go. I have hired 2 Thais in the past and had to personally redo their work.

Can anybody refer a competent, farang-friendly electrician who can give us good value for money with their services?

Thanks!

[lopburi3]

Yes the third hole (normally with no pin) can used if the wall socks have a thierd hole also.

But bear in mind that the wall socket third hole may be just that (a hole that goes nowhere/connected to nothing. Remember 'TIT' )

On the subjet of the current protection devices I don't concur entirely with you 'lopburi3' particularly in respect of the ELCB's as this device is triggered by current leakage to earth.

If there is no reference to earth the device will either not trip or if it does not in the time necessary to protect you.

The RCD's (residual current devices) work in a different way and quite possibly not require an earth reference.

Hole to hole gives no ground.

Whatever the name they compare the hot current to the neutral current wire and trip on a change. The ground can be a ground wire or you or a lizard. It will trip at the rated current regardless.