Continuing Study In Thailand

[Ijustwannateach]

^I concur with Ken, above, both on the issue of greater need for EP science teachers AND his positive opinion of Ajarn's character!!!

[Ajarn]

It's not often you find someone willing to research an alternative viewpoint.....

My plan was to research it to reinforce my position, not yours!

[bluebear]

Richb

I have a friend doing a degree at home with the OU. But, he says its a real bugger to handle the job and the studying. You also need to watch out as some of the courses have residential periods as part of the course. Just check out the OU web site. After graduating, their degree will be as valid as any other uni over here.

To back up Ken, I know a few people that have maths/science degrees and they do tend to get offered more money than "mere" english teachers. But then, that is the situation now. What it will be like in a few years time, who knows? Even so, I would suggest the science degree rather than a general english/business degree if its your intention to teach.

Now, remember the 3 years completion is if you study equivalent to a full time student! If you are planning that with a full time job, I really wish you good luck. A more realistic timescale might be 5-6 years.

Where was your home in the UK? England, Scotland? Have you considered instead of going for the full thing in one go, to go down the Higher National Certificate, Higher National Diploma, Degree route? This way you get a piece of paper after completing each section and you end up with a degree at the end. It means if for whatever reason you decide to drop out you will ( could) have something to show to employers etc ie a HNC rather than just some credits in an uncompleted course.

[Kan Win]

Okay, because of your insistence that things are different now (and with the credible anecdotal evidence you presented), I cruised through some ajarn.com ads and I believe now you are right. There is more of a demand now for science and math teachers than in years past. A few in tutorial centers, a few in Thai govt schools. Of course, these were all for teaching kids. If you like 'em, great.

Still in the extreme minority when compared to the need for English teachers, but clearly more of a need than I'd seen before.... I stand corrected.  I still believe that focusing on English teaching skills will be of most value, but the Science/Math background clearly is now value-added.

http://www.ajarn.com/Jobs/jobs_offered.php#1003764

Hey, even Olde Dinosaurs can learn new tricks 

Thank you Ken for sticking up for me on this one, until you got the old buzzard (joking only Teacher).

Hope you all Kan Win in your lives.

Happy Days

Kan Win

[Ajarn]

Thank you Ken for sticking up

for me on this one, until

you got the old buzzard (joking only Teacher).

[richb2004]

Thanks for the help everyone.

Glad that the disagreement was sorted out without to much upset.

[taweenit]

I think NIDA might also be a good choice for you to consider. I have several friends studying there. It has been ranked by Asia Inc. as the top 6 MBA in Asean. It is the only Thai institute selected by Michael E. Porter to offer his course on Microeconomics of Competitiveness (also teaching at Harvard). As far as I know, its English program is accepting application until the end of September. Maybe you want to check that out NIDA MBA Program

[hUsh]

Bangkok University's MBA is quite easy. My bf took some classes in the MBA program of Bangkok Uni. I also took some classes in the Undergrad level. I would say that this uni needs a lot of improvement when it comes to course content, level of students and teachers and the standard of teaching.

Now, I am taking some business classes in Assumption (ABAC) University Graduate School. The classes are pretty intensive with a lot of group work. But the school's system is not quite different from Bangkok Uni.

However, both schools are okay and recognized if you're just going stay here in Thailand.

I heard Sasin has the best MBA program in Thailand, but don't know much about it.

[ajarnski]

I'll also be using my GI Bill for my MAsters in Thailand. BKK Uni will do the paperwork for u. I also took the tour, nice campus....sexy students (not as sexy as Chula girls but will do). But for the easiest and cheapest route...try Ramkamphang (sp). U dont even have to attend the classes if you don't want to as long as you pass the test. The school is designed for working, busy adults. Those are my 2 main choices due to the price and lack of difficulty. I already have a BA from the U.S and to me (hate to say this) but most education in schools is a waste of money.

Most Uni Masters program will be around 25000-40000 baht per semester. Since you'll be getting about $985 per month in GI Bill benefit.....u can pocket a lot of money or just use the money to treat all your cute classmates to dinner and a trip to Phuket once in awhile. Also, once signed up for a program you qualify for a 1 year student visa (which I don't need because I have a Thai ID card/passport also).

Maybe we'll end up in the same class. Just look for the guy not overly concern with his grades

Ski....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The tops for MBA international programs is probably Chula's Sasin, which is jointly supported by Northwestern and U of Pennsylvania. It is very well established -- maybe twenty years now -- and has a high reputation in Thailand. I know of at least one large multi-national company which sends it's people there to groom them for higher management positions.

Good luck!

Sasin

I have an MBA. I wholeheardedly agree that Sasin is the best place in Muang Thai for an MBA or MM. The Kellog influence is a great help too.

[Darth Bangkok]

I have my MBA from Sasin. The professors are excellent. But the students are inexperienced and very young. Often their only experience is a year or two in daddy's business. Most of what the professors said went over their heads. And the group work is tortuous. I didn't hand in any paper that I was proud of over the two years. At the end, I just wanted to finish and get out of there.

The courses run for five weeks each, so the professors can go back to the US or Europe. Usually you take two courses at a time. Cheating is rampant. I even saw that they stole the Hard Rock Cafe logo to advertise their Halloween party (not sure if its this year's or last's - I saw someone at the gym wearing the T-shirt). We took exams in special rooms where the desks were all spread out.

After listening to days and days of marketing presentations once, myself and another foreigner asked the professor if ANY group had followed the instructions. He said no. So why were they all getting A's and B's? because "I want to get invited back next year"

In the end, it is up to you, how much you get out of it. I have not used my MBA much. I've been teaching, although I did help run the last school I worked at.

But at least your diploma will have the Kellogg and Wharton names on it.

[caughtintheact]

I completed the MM program at Sasin many moons ago (on the GI Bill), so I cannot address all the comments on the MBA program. However I do recall the professors complaining about the lack of experience on the part of the MBA students. The MM program is a different ballgame, in that the students are either entrepreneurs who have developed (or inherited) thriving businesses, or are sponsored by banks and other major companies and state enterprises. I believe there is still a requirement for 7 years working experience and a bachelor's degree or the equivalent to attend the MM program (the bachelors degree can be in any subject). If you are in your 30's or older this is a better program. A lot of work, but if you intend to live here, then the networking can be very beneficial to your own future, if you are prepared to cooperate and participate. It was to mine.

[mijan24]

I am of the understanding Assumption University offer a Graduate Diploma in Teaching can anyone offer any comment on, content worth, credibility outside Thailand but in near by countries etc?

[geo]

Search for a detailed answer to your question on ajarn.com. Wait, that idea will not work anymore.

In response to your question, the Ozzies will accept the course as will various American states. Other countries, I do not know.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's hard to say WHAT the "real" schools here want- if you're hinting at what International Schools really want, you're asking about a moving target. I think what they really want is for people who live here at the time of application not to apply, no matter how qualified we are. I have yet to hear a simple answer about what the International Schools here want, aside from the "have a degree in education and experience teaching in your home country." In that regard, I don't think any educational degree or experience from any institution outside your home country will be helpful at all, no matter what its quality level is.

If you're asking about its credibility in terms of general acceptability as a degree, I'd guess that it would be quite acceptable in any nearby country. Home countries would look at it with a certain amount of suspicion from unfamiliarity, just as Thailand has to be careful about vetting the degrees we have. It does seem that people who really want to do so can do real coursework at Assumption, even if it's not really required [from what friends of mine who work there say] for most students to do anything else but show up. I've known folks who studied there who did say their educational programs were challenging.

It's also important to find out what you mean by "credible" and for what purpose. A Graduate Diploma in Teaching might be very well, but if the school you want to work at ONLY wants someone with an M.Ed., that wouldn't be very helpful, then, would it? So make sure you know what the place you'd like to go to wants, and then shoot for those credentials, wherever you study.

"Steven"

[mijan24]

Thanks guys/gals?(Geo & Ijustwannateach).

Geo, I seem to remember you mentioning having attended the said course a year or two ago. I have been away doing other things and was not sure if you had transferred to this forum, so if you have any other tidbits would be happy to hear from you viz here or PM.

Mijan24

[geo]

Mijan 24,

Yes, I did attend this course awhile back and even managed to graduate. This course does satisfy any requirements that ANY international schools in Thailand or the MOE may require.

I attended various classes that had teachers from RIS, BIS, BPS, TIS, TCIS, Harrow and many more. Or at least this is where the teachers told me they were from. Most I know to be true!

Herein the problem lies. Many 'true' international schools are leary about hiring a local expat even with all of the necessary qualifications. Sexpats, drunks, druggies often come into play. Very difficult area.

While this grad dip is not for everyone it will allow an individual to work in the international circuit and remain in Thailand.

As far as I know it is the only course that is recognized by such schools.

Good luck! Feel free to PM.

[phormio]

Mijan 24,

Yes, I did attend this course awhile back and even managed to graduate. This course does satisfy any requirements that ANY international schools in Thailand or the MOE may require.

I attended various classes that had teachers from RIS, BIS, BPS, TIS, TCIS, Harrow and many more. Or at least this is where the teachers told me they were from. Most I know to be true!

Herein the problem lies. Many 'true' international schools are leary about hiring a local expat even with all of the necessary qualifications. Sexpats, drunks, druggies often come into play. Very difficult area.

While this grad dip is not for everyone it will allow an individual to work in the international circuit and remain in Thailand.

As far as I know it is the only course that is recognized by such schools.

Good luck! Feel free to PM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the info, I'll check it out when I get there!

There's hope yet for me teaching at the real internationals !

(I consider these to be the creme de la creme of the teaching positions in the LOS).

[Ijustwannateach]

Still say your best chance at these is to contact the big name schools (Harrow, etc.) before you arrive. Doesn't mean you can't get hired from the ground here, but you have more of a cachet of legitimacy while abroad, fair or not.

"Steven"

[phormio]

I've got a BS in Electrical Engineering and 42 Semester Hours in Graduate Studies(essentially a masters degree) in Engineering/Physics; however, I don't have a teaching degree nor do I have a teaching certificate.

I've been interviewing with some of the 2nd/3rd tier international schools. When I say international school , I like to think I'm talking about a school that is under consideration for or has been accredited by one of the intnl school accrediting bodies. Accrediting organizations include the European Council of International School (ECIS), the Council of International Schools (CIS), the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC) and the New England Association of Schools and Colleges (NEASC).

In the course of my job search I've been told about a program to obtain a teaching certificate right here in Thailand. Its from Mission College (Muan Lek) and its program is called,

Professional Teacher Education Certificate -- 18 Credit Hours

Has anyone heard of this program or does anyone know anything about it ? Would it help me get into one of the top tier international schools as a science/math/IT teacher?

They offer 6 hour Sunday courses and an internship at a school where you already teach. They have a nursing college/hospital in Bangkok and hold classes there for people living in Bangkok. I was told they set up this program specifically to certify teachers for the international schools, that the progam is approved by the Thai Ministry of Education, and furthermore that WASC is satisfied by teachers coming out of this program (I would love to confirm this independently though).

They have a course starting in August 2005 which I plan on attending; its a good idea for me since I intend to remain in Thailand for the rest of my days.

Links for the college and the program are :

Mission College Home Page

Mission College Programs of Study

Thanks for your suggestions.

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry, but I went to the links you provided, and the 18 hour prof. cert. of education courses, in orange, don't go anywhere. Care to try again?

The financial costs section says they charge 1600 baht per credit hour. Would 18 hours then cost 28,800, plus about 9000 baht per semester? How many semesters does it take to earn 18 credit hours? This is a certificate program, not a degree like a bachelor's or master's - right?

I figure that it might possibly theoretically cost perhaps maybe 40,000 baht to get the hours. But if this is the mythical legendary imaginary fantastic '15 credit hours' thingamajiggerbobber we've all heard so little about - what is it, really actually?

Before you go committing yourself to all this time and money, you might check.

By the way, a third tier international school is not exactly an international school. Also, there's a few things quite vague about your wording: "I like to think I'm talking about a school that is under consideration for or has been accredited by one of the intnl school accrediting bodies."

Good luck. I don't know. I've offered a reward for anybody who can prove they really, actually know.

Edited June 6, 2005 by PeaceBlondie

[phormio]

Sorry, but I went to the links you provided, and the 18 hour prof. cert. of education courses, in orange, don't go anywhere.  Care to try again?

The financial costs section says they charge 1600 baht per credit hour.  Would 18 hours then cost 28,800, plus about 9000 baht per semester?  How many semesters does it take to earn 18 credit hours?  This is a certificate program, not a degree like a bachelor's or master's - right?

I figure that it might possibly theoretically cost perhaps maybe 40,000 baht to get the hours.  But if this is the mythical legendary imaginary fantastic '15 credit hours' thingamajiggerbobber we've all heard so little about - what is it, really actually?

Before you go committing yourself to all this time and money, you might check. 

By the way, a third tier international school is not exactly an international school. Also, there's a few things quite vague about your wording: "I like to think I'm talking about a school that is under consideration for or has been accredited by one of the intnl school accrediting bodies."

Good luck.  I don't know.  I've offered a reward for anybody who can prove they really, actually know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a way I did check - I talked to the Owner/Director of a international school(application pending with one of the accrediting bodies ); there are a lot of new, smaller international schools around, according to him, because the MOE (ministry of Education) changed its rules a couple of years ago - if they have a request for accredidation pending with one of the international school accrediting bodies, they could operate as an international school; before this rule change, they had to wait for accredidation before operating as an international school.

Anyway , this director, who I'll call Steve, has 25 years experience in Thailand, fluency in Thai, and a Thai Citizenship. He deals with the MOE frequently and wanted to offer me a job, though I was offerred a better job at a different school (which I had to turn down- different story in a different post) . I specifically asked him if this Mission College program was approved by the MOE - he said yes. I specifically asked him if the WASC accrediting body recognized the teachers from this progam as legitimate for international school accrediting purposes - he said yes.

I have to admit that I have not actually received this response from Mission College itself. They said that the brochure for this program would come out in late June. They said that the program was specifically created in response to the international schools need for "qualified" teachers. They also said that they would help transfer ed credits back to colleges in the US to help with teaching certification there (this is a statewide function and varies from state to state).

Do you have the wherewithal and/or connections (you've been around the LOS for a while haven't you?) to check it out. Remember this is a new program with the first class just now graduating.

Thanks

[PeaceBlondie]

I've only been here for two years and have limited experience. No wherewithal, no connections. We've challenged those who have more of those things, and have heard unsubstantiated rumors, to check it out and get back with more info. If it's the 15 or 18 credit hours thing that was batted back and forth in 2003 and 2004, nothing appears to have come of it.

Many of us have bachelor's degrees but no academic course in educational methodology, no certification by state, province, region, or nation as 'teachers.' The guys who are trying to increase their 30K to 35K salaries to much more, are occasionally told that the EP schools think that some Khun Somchatasapanakornakorn up in the MoE was quoted in the Thai newspaper as saying something; by the time it's translated into English, nobody knows.

In my arrogant opinion, here's a standing offer: 500 baht to the first person who finds us properly certified government regulations that clearly spell out this requirement of 15 or 18 credit hours in education, including lots of details. I suspect the money's safe in my wallet.

[mijan24]

I searched around the net for "Mission College" I then extracted the following from an advertisement for a position at the College. I have deliberately edited some detail as the purpose of my post is to provide some info I found about the College.

http://www.nadeducation.org/employment/wor...cation.html#top

Mission College (founded in 1996) as it is today, represents a union of three proud Adventist institutions: Southeast Asia Union College, Singapore (est 1906); Bangkok Adventist Hospital School of Nursing (est 1947); and Mission College, Muak Lek campus (est 1988).

The College operates two campuses and five faculties. Its current enrollment is about 900. The College employs approximately 250 faculty and staff. Its main campus is located on 230 hectares set in the beautiful rural resort area of Muak Lek, 148 km northeast of Bangkok. It is a private institution of higher education with over 30 nationalities represented in its student body and among its faculty and staff.

The College is accredited by both the AAA (Adventist Accrediting Association of Schools, Colleges and Universities) and the Thailand Ministry of Education. The institution offers eight undergraduate degrees and two postgraduate qualifications in its international program, and three undergraduate degrees its Thai program.

The President

Southeast Asia Union Mission

798 Thomson Road

Singapore 298186

For more information, contact The President via email at [email protected], via phone at 65-6355-2700 or at the following address:

Southeast Asia Union Mission

798 TGhomson Road

Republic of Singapore 298186

A direct site for information -

http://www.geocities.com/hmongthailand/missioncollege.html

Mijan24

Edited June 8, 2005 by mijan24

[PeaceBlondie]

Fair to say that the website is not helpful about the 18 hour program because the orange line goes to no other site. Perhaps the program is so new (and not launched yet) that the info's not available at all.

500 baht award is still on the table for definite, clear information in English, from the MoE, as to precisely what courses are required to qualify a BA to teach in which types of programs, amd where to get such training so that it will be approved by the MoE. Perferably signed in blood by a civil servant who promises to lose face if he's not 90% correct.

[phormio]

Fair to say that the website is not helpful about the 18 hour program because the orange line goes to no other site.  Perhaps the program is so new (and not launched yet) that the info's not available at all.

500 baht award is still on the table for definite, clear information in English, from the MoE, as to precisely what courses are required to qualify a BA to teach in which types of programs, amd where to get such training so that it will be approved by the MoE.  Perferably signed in blood by a civil servant who promises to lose face if he's not 90% correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That may be the crux of the problem; but it seems to me that the real question is what will the international school accrediting bodies(WASC,NEASC, CIS, ECIS) accept in teachers at international schools in Thailand; don't think this is at the discretion of the MOE, but I aint really sure. The vagueness of the situation is such that I posted my questions on the forum here to see what might turn up.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond.

[phormio]

Well I downloaded the on-line application forms, filled them out, sent them in and received confirmation of my acceptance into the Professional Teacher's Certification Program at Mission College, Aug 2005 , Bangkok Campus.

I still haven't gotten all the details but my geuss is that it'll help me get a good teaching position in Thailand and will help me satisfy the requirements of the bona-fide international schools. TiT. Nothing wrong with being optimistic ; nothing wrong with getting lucky.

I'll let you know as more information becomes available.

[phormio]

Fair to say that the website is not helpful about the 18 hour program because the orange line goes to no other site.  Perhaps the program is so new (and not launched yet) that the info's not available at all.

Mentioned this to the program coordinator in an email. He just got back to me and said that the web site would be updated by the end of the week (lets check next Monday) and a program brochure would be ready soon and that he would send one out to me (when I get this I will photograph it with a digital camera and make it available here - if I can figure out how to do this)

500 baht award is still on the table for definite, clear information in English, from the MoE, as to precisely what courses are required to qualify a BA to teach in which types of programs, amd where to get such training so that it will be approved by the MoE.  Perferably signed in blood by a civil servant who promises to lose face if he's not 90% correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Program coordinator said he checked with some of the international schools and that the WASC(Western Association of Schools and Colleges), one of the important international school accrediting bodies here in Thailand, does accredit schools that employ teachers who have gotten their teacher credentials(Professional Teacher Certification) through Mission Colleges' program. He has previously indicated that the MOE of Thailand also approves the program.

Nothing much else I can say,

just give her a try and pray.

[phormio]

Mission College's HomePage

Mission College's HomePage

So here it is, they've put a pdf up about the program - by going from Mission College's HomePage , selecting the Academics Tab, and the Programs of Study menu link you'll get to a link (below) with a pdf file - its a two page description of the program in pdf file format.

Mission College Professional Teacher Education pdf file

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, phormio. I'm still confused and ignorant, or dazed and confused. The new pdf that you just posted is little more than a green and white single page ad, that says the course goes from January to December (not the same as the prior URL that said it starts on August 28, 2005). Which program is this? How much does it cost? How many hours per week, which days of the week? Is it 15 or 18 credit thingies? Does the MoE accept it? Does the MoE not accept something else?

Thanks. Sorry to keep bothering you. Looks like the 500 baht is still safe in my wallet. I know I'm being picky, and honestly I'm not likely to go this route, anyway, for personal reasons like my age. But before some aspiring younger, serious teacher spends up to 40,000 baht and countless hours of graduate-level work, what's it worth when they finish?

Edited July 8, 2005 by PeaceBlondie