1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Please see the post I was responding to.

Nothing to do with your response to any previous post of yours!

WW11 has no relevance to the situation today between these two countries.

22 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Should hope so im nearly 70. They have never won a military conlict since the japanese walked into Thailand unopossed in the 40s. Worse than the French for giving in.

Which military conflicts have they lost since then?

1 hour ago, Pinot said:

Thailand could roll over Cambodia in a few hours. I've always thought they should go into Mirmar. Nothing to stop them. 

 

If Thailand were aggressive, it could easily take over the area. They would of course, massively screw that up.

 

That's pie in the sky. Thais. Sometimes I wonder how anything gets done here. 

 

Neither Cambodia nor Myanmar have anything worth invading for. Also, it's very difficult to keep what you take by force. The best scenario for keeping a territory requires it to have a well structured government.  Replace the key figureheads and any in power who dissent with quislings and you've got control with minimal bloodshed. 

Who started it? opinions vary 

18 minutes ago, proton said:

Who started it? opinions vary 

Perhaps its "what started it" ...... some stronger than usual recreactional narcotic ?

 

What, in the world, is the point of this carry on......It looks so stupid even compared to say Putins  purile standard

https://funker530.com/video/cambodian-mlrs-unloads-on-thai-positions

https://funker530.com/video/phanom-dong-rak-hospital-struck-by-artillery

 

Is this one a clip from MASH ?

 

https://funker530.com/video/thai-artillery-unleashed-against-cambodian-military-targets

 

I mean, why dont they all go home ?

 

2 hours ago, short-Timer said:

Thailand has fighter jets that can reach PP in minutes. Cambodia only has hairycoppers. What could possibly go wrong in the land of the Rouge? Oh my. 

 

Whether they return, is another matter. The Thai aircraft are not equipped with state of the art defensive options. All it takes are a few Chinese sourced anti aircraft missiles to put an end to their visits. 

 

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

What is the real quality of Thailand's troops? Cambodians are a lot poorer and maybe a lot more rugged????

The Cambodians are used to hardship. The Thais are used to their comforts. The USA found out the hard way when it took on the Viet Cong. Like them, the Cambodians can survive on a handful of rice, and are used to living rough. 

 

2 hours ago, Pinot said:

Thailand could roll over Cambodia in a few hours. I've always thought they should go into Mirmar. Nothing to stop them. 

If Thailand were aggressive, it could easily take over the area. They would of course, massively screw that up.

That's pie in the sky. Thais. Sometimes I wonder how anything gets done here. 

 

Taking territory and holding it are two different concepts. The French, Australian and US militaries could not manage that in Indochina. The coalition forces couldn't do it in Afghanistan. Israel can't do it in Gaza.  The  action you suggest would bankrupt Thailand and the Thai people would rise up as soon as the young Thai kids started to die and come back in bits and pieces.

 

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

Will cambodia get north korean troops like putin got?

 

Doubtful, but I can see Chinese troops being invited in to  help foster "peace".  China is itching for an excuse to expand, and this could be it. 

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

Omg omg only one thing matters now....will gbp reach 44 baht

I thought you used the Canadian Dollar

2 hours ago, Bannoi said:

The dispute dates back to more than a hundred years ago, when the borders of the two nations were drawn after the French occupation of Cambodia.

Things officially became hostile in 2008, when Cambodia tried to register an 11th Century temple located in the disputed area as a Unesco World Heritage Site - a move that was met with heated protest from Thailand.

There were sporadic clashes over the years which saw soldiers and civilians killed on both sides.

The latest tensions ramped up in May after a Cambodian soldier was killed in a clash. This plunged bilateral ties to their lowest point in more than a decade.

In the past two months, both countries have imposed border restrictions on one another. Cambodia banned imports from Thailand such as fruits and vegetables, and stopped importing power and internet services.

Both countries have also strengthened troop presence along the border in recent weeks.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80p8z0y0eko

i mean that's lame as <deleted>. the whole province of surin is also historically Khmer, does that mean Cambodia should suddenly invade it? I get it, Cambodia is the more hostile, manly one. But in what world does that get rewarded?

8 hours ago, bannork said:

What is the root cause of this present conflict though?

Thailand preventing Thais gambling in Cambodia resulting in loss of income for Cambodia?

Thais cutting electricity and the internet in an attempt to close down the scam centres across the border in Cambodia?

Something else?

It started because Thailand decided some temple was theirs. Even though previously the world court said it belonged to Cambodia years ago. Thailand wants it for their tourism. Then minor conflicts with military that Thailand sent there to lay claim to the land and temple. Then Cambodia began sending some of their soldiers there and more minor conflicts between armies. Then Thailands army stated they would put a fence around the temple to take control of it. Then Thailand sent more troops to the area and began patrols. a couple of the patrols stepped on land mines placed by Cambodia (supposedly on their land side) 

During all this borders were being closed by both sides. Then there is a grey area who fired first that has sent this fighting into full force. But so far Thailand has sent an fighter jet over Cambodia to drop some bombs and send some missiles into Cambodia and more small arms fighting. Embassy personnel evacuated and the Thais told to leave Cambodia.. 

This has nothing to do with cutting power and closing scam centers in Cambodia. 

8 hours ago, Bannoi said:

The dispute dates back to more than a hundred years ago, when the borders of the two nations were drawn after the French occupation of Cambodia.

Things officially became hostile in 2008, when Cambodia tried to register an 11th Century temple located in the disputed area as a Unesco World Heritage Site - a move that was met with heated protest from Thailand.

There were sporadic clashes over the years which saw soldiers and civilians killed on both sides.

The latest tensions ramped up in May after a Cambodian soldier was killed in a clash. This plunged bilateral ties to their lowest point in more than a decade.

In the past two months, both countries have imposed border restrictions on one another. Cambodia banned imports from Thailand such as fruits and vegetables, and stopped importing power and internet services.

Both countries have also strengthened troop presence along the border in recent weeks.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80p8z0y0eko

That border dispute was also the subject of an International Court ruling at the time of Yingluck, some 12 years ago (+/- 1). The ruling was unequivocally on favour of Cambodia. Here are the details, as far as I can remember:

- over 100 years ago now, when France was the colonial power in Indochina, the borders between Siam and the French-held territories were settled in a few agreements. In particular, France and Siam agreed that the border with Cambodia would be the watershed line - a rather common and logical enough principle around the world.

- Siam agreed to let the French do the field work to mark that watershed line, arguing that it did not have the technical capabilities to do so. That, btw, I find rather weak on part of Siam because it does not take genius minds to see where the waters run towards Siam and where they run off towards Cambodia. The reason Siam let the French do the work might very well have been laziness. Siam did not even bother sending representatives to check on what France was doing!

- France as a colonial power was not terribly interested in Cambodia, nor in Laos for that matter - territories that had been under Siamese sovereignty until France showed up in the region. The main reasons France was interested around there were : the unique cultural heritage in Cambodia, ie the Khmer ruins of Siam Reap and so on (yes France was sometimes rather bizarre), and the control of the Mekhong river which it hoped could be navigated all the way to China, hence giving France an advantage on competitors to access the Chinese market (the Mekhong was found not to be navigable). Be it said in passing that a number of politicians in France objected against encroaching on the eastern territories of Siam - not so much for ethical reasons or for sympathy towards Siam, but because there were serious doubts on what was to gain in controling those regions.

- Be it as it was, the French marked the watershed line but when they came to the Preah Vihear Temple, they decided to keep it on the Cambodian side, ie under France's control (remember that bizarre interest in Khmer ruins driving France's colonialism in Cambodia?) - although it was mainly (or entirely?) on the western side of the watershed and should have been allocated to Siam. But there were no Siamese representative around so the French could do what they wanted.

- Several years later, a Siamese prince happened to visit the site and did not object to where the French had set the border.

- Only towards the end of the 20th century did Thailand (the successor of Siam) start making an issue of  the Preah Vihear Temple being in Cambodia.

- Recently (12 years ago?), the International Court ruled that it was too late for Thailand to make an issue of it, that it had tacitly accepted the temple being on Cambodia's side for just about a century. Yingluck, in a typical Thai way of putting a good face on a loss, went public about how "great that ruling was, clearing once and for all that lingering issue".

 

So, in a nutshell, yes, France cheated on Siam (Thailand) and yes, the temple should have been left on the Thailand side of the border. But no, Thailand do not have a case to make a heated dispute about it, having left the situation undisputed for nearly a century.

25 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

That border dispute was also the subject of an International Court ruling at the time of Yingluck, some 12 years ago (+/- 1). The ruling was unequivocally on favour of Cambodia. Here are the details, as far as I can remember:

- over 100 years ago now, when France was the colonial power in Indochina, the borders between Siam and the French-held territories were settled in a few agreements. In particular, France and Siam agreed that the border with Cambodia would be the watershed line - a rather common and logical enough principle around the world.

- Siam agreed to let the French do the field work to mark that watershed line, arguing that it did not have the technical capabilities to do so. That, btw, I find rather weak on part of Siam because it does not take genius minds to see where the waters run towards Siam and where they run off towards Cambodia. The reason Siam let the French do the work might very well have been laziness. Siam did not even bother sending representatives to check on what France was doing!

- France as a colonial power was not terribly interested in Cambodia, nor in Laos for that matter - territories that had been under Siamese sovereignty until France showed up in the region. The main reasons France was interested around there were : the unique cultural heritage in Cambodia, ie the Khmer ruins of Siam Reap and so on (yes France was sometimes rather bizarre), and the control of the Mekhong river which it hoped could be navigated all the way to China, hence giving France an advantage on competitors to access the Chinese market (the Mekhong was found not to be navigable). Be it said in passing that a number of politicians in France objected against encroaching on the eastern territories of Siam - not so much for ethical reasons or for sympathy towards Siam, but because there were serious doubts on what was to gain in controling those regions.

- Be it as it was, the French marked the watershed line but when they came to the Preah Vihear Temple, they decided to keep it on the Cambodian side, ie under France's control (remember that bizarre interest in Khmer ruins driving France's colonialism in Cambodia?) - although it was mainly (or entirely?) on the western side of the watershed and should have been allocated to Siam. But there were no Siamese representative around so the French could do what they wanted.

- Several years later, a Siamese prince happened to visit the site and did not object to where the French had set the border.

- Only towards the end of the 20th century did Thailand (the successor of Siam) start making an issue of  the Preah Vihear Temple being in Cambodia.

- Recently (12 years ago?), the International Court ruled that it was too late for Thailand to make an issue of it, that it had tacitly accepted the temple being on Cambodia's side for just about a century. Yingluck, in a typical Thai way of putting a good face on a loss, went public about how "great that ruling was, clearing once and for all that lingering issue".

 

So, in a nutshell, yes, France cheated on Siam (Thailand) and yes, the temple should have been left on the Thailand side of the border. But no, Thailand do not have a case to make a heated dispute about it, having left the situation undisputed for nearly a century.

Well explained, thank you.

 

Might have known it was all the French fault!

9 hours ago, Pinot said:

Thailand could roll over Cambodia in a few hours

... 

Lol, that worked well (not) with little Laos the last time!!

9 hours ago, Celsius said:

Omg omg only one thing matters now....will gbp reach 44 baht

Which doesn't concern you.

11 hours ago, bannork said:

red

Makes no sense to attack Thailand with the vast difference in air power. Hardly any point in using ground troops when you can literally bomb the hell out of somewhere with aircraft.

10 hours ago, dinsdale said:

What post Second World War military conflicts would they be then that they have never won?

The communists in Thailand 1977-1983. Had to stop it by giving them land.

10 hours ago, dinsdale said:

The military is controlling this not the government.

And that is the problem. The governments have not only been ineffective but have made it worse with their petty, personal bickering.

11 hours ago, flaming dragon said:

Such a waste. Lovely people on both sides of a line on a map being killed due to decisions made by people who will never feel the effects.  Why is this being done? Probably a distraction. Get the Thais all whipped up and high on nationalism and perhaps they won't notice how dysfunctional the government really is. 

The same is probably true of the Cambodian government?

11 hours ago, Bannoi said:

The dispute dates back to more than a hundred years ago, when the borders of the two nations were drawn after the French occupation of Cambodia.

Things officially became hostile in 2008, when Cambodia tried to register an 11th Century temple located in the disputed area as a Unesco World Heritage Site - a move that was met with heated protest from Thailand.

There were sporadic clashes over the years which saw soldiers and civilians killed on both sides.

The latest tensions ramped up in May after a Cambodian soldier was killed in a clash. This plunged bilateral ties to their lowest point in more than a decade.

In the past two months, both countries have imposed border restrictions on one another. Cambodia banned imports from Thailand such as fruits and vegetables, and stopped importing power and internet services.

Both countries have also strengthened troop presence along the border in recent weeks.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80p8z0y0eko

Thank you Bannoi.

At long last a true account of what is happening.

Still the safest country in the world?

Just read on the Thai Enquirer that Thaksin says there is no need for outside intervention to stop the fighting because "Hun Sen needs to be taught a lesson"

Wonderful government, wonderful man.

12 hours ago, bannork said:

red

 

Apart from the size of their military budget, air force, naval fleet and reserve forces, amazing poor Cambodia has got over 600 tanks over 3000_ apcs; so disproportionate for their size of economy. Back in 2010, their army didn't even have proper army fatigue (seen at Ban Lem   border check point).

 

Looks well standing for their rapid  transformation into  the puppet state of China.

 

 

 

Half of Cambodia's GDP is from the human trafficking and scam compounds being run in the near the border. Thailand's crackdown is an existential threat to the Cambodian regime.

Sure, there's some history to the border dispute, but let's not pretend that right now it's about anything other than the crime syndicates and regime clinging to power.

As long as they are happy and enjoying themselves is all that matters. I can still hear the artillery firing but it will all be over in a few days with wais and smiles.

None of this is good to be certain. Nevertheless, if it is somehow shown / proven that it was the Thai contingent that fired first the whole thing seems almost justified on the Cambodian end

 

Almost all the Cambodian / Thai border issues seem to be in Cambodias favor. Thailand simply cannot accept that.

 

They are not arguing over huge swaths of land. Basically, the argument is over tourism which is shockingly bad form for the Thai

 

The temples are obviously Khmer in their making. Obviously, Cambodia cannot claim all the land in which enveloped the Khmer kingdoms. Nevertheless not to give these tiny and broken temples to the cambodians which is their heritage and there's a loan seems to be extremely unneverly and disingenuous

 

Border set up over 100 years ago under the French clearly DeMark these areas. While they were always somewhat contentious as borders off and are they were not enough so that Thailand made any sort of real issue of them until the last 20 or 30 years

12 hours ago, short-Timer said:

Thailand has fighter jets that can reach PP in minutes. Cambodia only has hairycoppers. What could possibly go wrong in the land of the Rouge? Oh my. 

 

Cambodia is buying 1/4 of their electricity from Thailand.

And they are said to lose 7-8million baht/day while  borders are closed.

Remittance from their workers in Thailand comes up as much as 10% of their GDP.

 

Thailand can hit them  hard enough if they really want to, without firing a round.

 

I heard on the grape vines that both sides have lots of nunation with very near expiry date on them

and they didn't to just discard them, so shooting at each other was the best next idea.

15 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

As long as they are happy and enjoying themselves is all that matters. I can still hear the artillery firing but it will all be over in a few days with wais and smiles.

 

Hi, did you say you live near the current war zone?

Wish they come to cease-fire agreement asap to put an end to this meaningless conflict(not like Ukraine's defense against Putin's aggression) asap.

 

Stay safe and have a good day.

These hostilities put an end to any future role for Paetongtarn/Thaksin in government in Thailand following the Paetogtarn's leaked 'phone conversation with Hun Sen. No way back now. Expect serious charges to follow.