Thaksin And His Wife Issued Arrest Warrants Over Ratchadapisek Land Case

[Thai at Heart]

There's a code of conduct for Thai leaders stemming from old Buddhist/Hindu texts, there are twelve rules, and Thaksin just didn't fit in.

He was just a new face among thousands of thieves who pass themselves as leaders here but he aspired for the "real thing", he wasn't content with stuffing his pockets like everyone else. What exactly brough his downfall and how it played out is immaterial, it was bound to happen one way or another - he was clearly out of his place.

The list itself, btw, makes a good reading, the most consise form I could found:

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/econ6.htm

The twelve duties of a universal emperor (cakkavatti-vatta), D.III.61

1. Rule by righteousness

Provision of ward and protection to

2. Those in the emperor's immediate circle

3. The armed forces

4. Governors and administrative officers

5. Royal dependents, civil servants

6. Brahmins, householders, craftsmen, traders

7. Town and country dwellers

8. Religious devotees

9. Beasts and birds

10. Prevention of wrongdoing in the Kingdom

11. Distribution of wealth to the poor

12. Seeking advice from sages, aspiring to greater virtue

Thaksin failed more than half.

Well if that is what is required, put it in the constitution.

[Plus]

These are personal traits, you either have/display them or not

The problem was with Thaksin, not the constitution.

Following constution would come under rule 1, I suppose. Thaksin and righteousness. Yeah, they go together like fire and water.

[Thai at Heart]

These are personal traits, you either have/display them or not

The problem was with Thaksin, not the constitution.

Following constution would come under rule 1, I suppose. Thaksin and righteousness. Yeah, they go together like fire and water.

I don't know the man so I couldn't say if he passes some or all. I don't think giving buddhist qualities as a leader and saying he failed is any more relevant than me saying he got 20mn votes and passed.

This is Thai politics and nothing is ever as clear cut as that.

[Plus]

I don't think giving buddhist qualities as a leader and saying he failed is any more relevant than me saying he got 20mn votes and passed.

Yeah, because it's not up to you to decide. People who HAVE this kind of decision making power might feel differently.

20 million votes don't beat Buddhism in this country. Not yet, at least.

I also think that all government ministers say a pledge that contains something like the above mentioned prinicples at the swearing in ceremony.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't think giving buddhist qualities as a leader and saying he failed is any more relevant than me saying he got 20mn votes and passed.

Yeah, because it's not up to you to decide. People who HAVE this kind of decision making power might feel differently.

20 million votes don't beat Buddhism in this country. Not yet, at least.

I also think that all government ministers say a pledge that contains something like the above mentioned prinicples at the swearing in ceremony.

So it is all a moot point in that case. If getting the votes doesn't mean anything then it is all pointless.

[younghusband]

I don't think giving buddhist qualities as a leader and saying he failed is any more relevant than me saying he got 20mn votes and passed.

Yeah, because it's not up to you to decide. People who HAVE this kind of decision making power might feel differently.

20 million votes don't beat Buddhism in this country. Not yet, at least.

I also think that all government ministers say a pledge that contains something like the above mentioned prinicples at the swearing in ceremony.

We're back in the Twilight Zone again with a concept of mysterious "guardians", superior to mere mortals even if they a command a democratic majority, who somehow dictate how things should be tacked on to what is a completely unhistorical (why, because this is a concept much more associated with Buddhist kingdoms in South Asia) list of virtues that Thai leaders are absolutely required to possess.It's complete hogwash and just a loonier manifestation of reactionary middle class politics.

For a less barmy take on current Thai politics take a look at Kevin Hewison's review of Thak Chalooemitarana's Politics of Despotic Paternalism in today's Bangkok Post largely dealing with Sarit era and its contemporary resonance.

Hewison concludes " Self-righteous middle class and elite commentators who allege the main obstacle to democratic reform is the "uneducated" rural voter who would do well to gaze into the mirror of history."

[hammered]

For all the deabtes on whether votes matter or not or whether a more limited version of democracy would be better I find I dont really like to get involved. My take is that apart from the PPP and Thaksin etc is that the Dems or elected opposition also support the democratic system. I also note that it is obvious at least to my addled mind that the "powers that be" are trying to cobble together a deal with a third or so of the PPP to split away and "do the right thing". It seems apart from the PAD everybody is into this democracy thing one way or another and so it is not really worth debating.

Personally I think the lower house shoudl be totally elected based on one person one vote. Hey give proportional representation a go if you want a more democratic system, and one that gets away from local feudal masters controlling things, but at least stick to some form of omov election. For the upper house I am not so worried. In fact with the vote buying and feudal control stuff it may in some ways make sense to have a body chosen in a manner different from the lower house at least until Thailand's other democratic institutions become stronger and more cemented in the national psyche. The US upper house election system is not exactly a fair version of omov and the Brits select not elect, and until recently inherited by birth. Both the UK and US have functioning democracies - well at least most of the time;)

The more important issues are based around education and opportunity. These need extending to the whole country in a fair way. This wont be easy as it is diametrically opposed to the interests of the feudal lords who exert control by passing on the scraps but never anything that can take root. It is also not helped by governments that constantly chnage, self serving politicians and the odd coup now and againalthough on these points I can only hope that after what has happened in the last three years and probably a bit more to come that whoever is left standing will have learnt. It may also help if the courts do continue their actions past the Thaksin period and past that clique. There are some indications of a willingness to deal with mor ethan just Thaksin but we need to watch a litel longer to see if this trend will become part of the future Thai political traditon. If this were to happen it would be a very positive sign although I am not convinced it will right now.

[younghusband]

It seems apart from the PAD everybody is into this democracy thing one way or another and so it is not really worth debating.

Thanks Hammered for that excellent post.I have highlighted the one area where I differ with you.I think it's quite important to come down hard on reactionary hogwash even if though as you say it has little traction in the wider world other than PAD.

[hammered]

It seems apart from the PAD everybody is into this democracy thing one way or another and so it is not really worth debating.

Thanks Hammered for that excellent post.I have highlighted the one area where I differ with you.I think it's quite important to come down hard on reactionary hogwash even if though as you say it has little traction in the wider world other than PAD.

I actually know people who attend PAD rallies who dont agree with the limited democracy bi. In fact everyone I know who attends PAD rallies doesnt agree with that bit. They go because it is a public way of showing opposition to other things they dont like. May sound crazy but true.

I understand some may want to challenge undemocratic ideals publically at every opportunity and respect that opinion of yours.

[Plus]

We're back in the Twilight Zone again with a concept of mysterious "guardians", superior to mere mortals even if they a command a democratic majority, who somehow dictate how things should be tacked on to what is a completely unhistorical (why, because this is a concept much more associated with Buddhist kingdoms in South Asia) list of virtues that Thai leaders are absolutely required to possess.It's complete hogwash and just a loonier manifestation of reactionary middle class politics.

Just step back a little and look at the big picture - it's simply a Thai version of the same universal "hogwash".

It's the core set of values that no elections are supposed to override. These values are shared all across human race throghout all human history, the utlimate sense of what is right and wrong that gets codified differently according to time and place. The same set of values YOU use to judge Thaksin's drug war, for example. If you went by votes alone, it'd be perfectly normal and acceptable.

If you take an MBA course you'll be told about integrity and good governance and leadership - same things in different words, quantified and scientificaly presented.

I'll say it again - no matter how many votes you get, you can't use them to justify obvious wrongdoing. That's what Thaksin tried to do - whitewash his sins with millions of votes. He also tried money and raw power but found that "democracy" works best.

[sriracha john]

Land case verdict on Wednesday

On Wednesday afternoon, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions is scheduled to hand down the verdict on the Ratchadaphisek land purchase case against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife, Pojaman.

The verdict will be the first in many corruption cases brought against Thaksin by the Assets Examination Committee.

- The Nation / 2008-09-15

[hammered]

Land case verdict on Wednesday

On Wednesday afternoon, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions is scheduled to hand down the verdict on the Ratchadaphisek land purchase case against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife, Pojaman.

The verdict will be the first in many corruption cases brought against Thaksin by the Assets Examination Committee.

- The Nation / 2008-09-15

If that is a guilty it wil be an interesting position for the new PM. Will his first act be the removal of his bo-in-laws diplomatic passport and launching an extradition request. Ho hum

More to the point is found guilty by a criminal court does that mena a constitutional ammendment can no longer unfetter him?

[h90]

Land case verdict on Wednesday

On Wednesday afternoon, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions is scheduled to hand down the verdict on the Ratchadaphisek land purchase case against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife, Pojaman.

The verdict will be the first in many corruption cases brought against Thaksin by the Assets Examination Committee.

- The Nation / 2008-09-15

If that is a guilty it wil be an interesting position for the new PM. Will his first act be the removal of his bo-in-laws diplomatic passport and launching an extradition request. Ho hum

More to the point is found guilty by a criminal court does that mena a constitutional ammendment can no longer unfetter him?

Well I guess he won't do anything.....

[Siripon]

Land case verdict on Wednesday

On Wednesday afternoon, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions is scheduled to hand down the verdict on the Ratchadaphisek land purchase case against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife, Pojaman.

The verdict will be the first in many corruption cases brought against Thaksin by the Assets Examination Committee.

- The Nation / 2008-09-15

If he doesn't turn up I think they'll postpone reading the verdict for one month and meanwhile issue an arrest warrant.

[jumnien]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

[h90]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

and why is the court not legitimate??

[TAWP]

Don't...feed...the...troll.

[h90]

Don't...feed...the...troll.

sorry forgot that......

[jumnien]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

and why is the court not legitimate??

google it!

[steveromagnino]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

What a pity you don't know anything about the study of law. Or much else.

[h90]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

What a pity you don't know anything about the study of law. Or much else.

Don't...feed...the...troll.

[Samuian]

Interesting stuff, worldwide amrkets are declining heavely and his Families Portfolio jumps a decent 21.48%, don't anybody talk about vested interests! :

Stocks of Wongsawat family's firms jump

By The Nation

Wyncoast Industrial Park Plc and MLink Asia Corp Plc stocks, politically connected to Somchai Wongsawat, the acting prime minister, jumped significantly on speculation that he would become Thailand's next prime minister.

MLink stock prices jumped 21.48 per cent at the end of the first trading session to close at Bt1.64, while Wyncoast stock rose dramatically by around 40 per cent to Bt0.99.

The two stocks enjoy strong price surge although the general sentiment of the stock market is depressed by the financial sector turmoil in the US surrounding the collapse of Lehman Brothers.

Wongsawat family has earlier sold out Wyncoast stocks but many still believed the stock is related to the family. The family still has majority stake in MLink.

PPP faces break-up over Somchai

by The Nation

The People Power Party's decision to nominate Somchai Wongsawat as prime minister is threatening to break up the ruling party after more than 70 PPP MPs vowed to veto the nomination.

The PPP's executive board had earlier today agreed to nominate Somchai, the brother-in-law of self-exiled Thaksin Shinawatra, as its candidate to be next prime minister.

Somchai was nominated to replace Samak Sundaravej at an executive meeting of the People Power Party (PPP), party leader Kuthep Saikrachang said.

Whereas Somchai's nomination is expected to receive support from coalition allies, he will run straight into trouble.

The People Alliance for Democracy has declared its rejection of his nomination. The ruling People Power Party, meanwhile, is now in danger of a rebellion by a key faction led by Newin Chidchob.

Newin's faction controls 73 MPs, who declared in the afternoon that they would not vote for Somchai despite his nomination by the PPP's executive board.

Does the PPP break up on it's own?

[jumnien]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

What a pity you don't know anything about the study of law. Or much else.

Don't...feed...the...troll.

Looks like the legitimacy of the Thai judicial system really hits a raw nerve amongst PAD cheerleaders! Bought and paid for; the best money can buy!

[h90]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

What a pity you don't know anything about the study of law. Or much else.

Don't...feed...the...troll.

Looks like the legitimacy of the Thai judicial system really hits a raw nerve amongst PAD cheerleaders! Bought and paid for; the best money can buy!

Yes so you can be happy...this time the court is not corrupt, taking Thaksins money....and is doing its job.

[jumnien]

"The distinguishing features of the (PAD) movement are its wealth, its explicit and implicit use of violence and its magical protection against threats, including police action, court orders and legal process."

All this and more in today's Nation.

[steveromagnino]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

What a pity you don't know anything about the study of law. Or much else.

Don't...feed...the...troll.

Looks like the legitimacy of the Thai judicial system really hits a raw nerve amongst PAD cheerleaders! Bought and paid for; the best money can buy!

what a pity as I don't like the PAD. Sorry pal, you really don't know anything.

[jumnien]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

What a pity you don't know anything about the study of law. Or much else.

Don't...feed...the...troll.

Looks like the legitimacy of the Thai judicial system really hits a raw nerve amongst PAD cheerleaders! Bought and paid for; the best money can buy!

what a pity as I don't like the PAD. Sorry pal, you really don't know anything.

Well, I agree with you as I don't like the PAD. Seems we're both geniuses!

[h90]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

What a pity you don't know anything about the study of law. Or much else.

Don't...feed...the...troll.

Looks like the legitimacy of the Thai judicial system really hits a raw nerve amongst PAD cheerleaders! Bought and paid for; the best money can buy!

what a pity as I don't like the PAD. Sorry pal, you really don't know anything.

Well, I agree with you as I don't like the PAD. Seems we're both geniuses!

you are definitely one :D

[jumnien]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

What a pity you don't know anything about the study of law. Or much else.

Don't...feed...the...troll.

Looks like the legitimacy of the Thai judicial system really hits a raw nerve amongst PAD cheerleaders! Bought and paid for; the best money can buy!

what a pity as I don't like the PAD. Sorry pal, you really don't know anything.

Well, I agree with you as I don't like the PAD. Seems we're both geniuses!

you are definitely one :D

Do I detect a note of sarcasm from my Thai judicial system trusting friend?

[animatic]

Without a legitimate judicial system in place it's going to be rather hard to convict anyone of anything. Nonetheless, it won't be surprising if the PAD find him guilty.

and why is the court not legitimate??

Cause sunrise needs to get a life outside of T.V.