Thaksin And His Wife Issued Arrest Warrants Over Ratchadapisek Land Case

[mrbojangles]

If you really want to see some fireworks, what if he claims asylum in the UK, claiming that his life is in danger if he returns to Thailand?

Just speculating ...

To be credible Thaksin would have needed to apply for asylum before the arrest warrants were issued.

And i'm fairly sure he would have had to have been granted it when he first came here. I'm not sure of the type of visa he is on (a business one related no doubt) but it in't asylum status.

[aaaaaa]

It really seems they don't want us to forget about Thaksin. If they would just let it be nobody would even ask about him anymore.

Aliluya !

finally at least some one has expressed something reasonably realistic !

this is my thought exactly: WHY to go on & on & on & on ..... ranting about Thaksin while there are so many much more serious important current issues obviously and naturally attracting attention of anyone marginally objective, not even necessarily SOOO very geniusly shrewd !

here is one hypothesis:

1) Nation, Bkk Post and all present day "mainstream" (="obedient" to CNS) media find this T-bashing a good (or the only?) way to have sufficient Content for their dailies - since they are not allowed (or rather self-censor for safety? yeah, here is the case when usage of term "politically correct" is very appropriate ! ) to discuss.

2) it is actually ThaiVisa who is behind whole T-bashing campaign: the easiest way to drive a lot of net traffic to their website and increase their SE indexing, because TV knows what the most will drive nuts the crowd of cheerleaders in 'Kokosphere. after all, the whole bloggin thing is the biggest fad in da e-commerce

3) or perhaps both of them (TV + Nation + Bkk post) are in conspiracy about this - well, actually nothing much as suspension, just earning livelihood, really ! otherwise - why would The Nation on-line have such a "Thailand Forum" (= ..... guess who? ) and in reciprocation - a lot of news materials in this Forum quote as the source .... (again, to guess who?)

well, nothing bad intended, folks - just kidding, oK?

although, as saying goes: "in every piece of joke there is a grain of ...."

yeah, that's right - a grain of joke !

anyway, if seriously - it is just more and more getting tooo boring

[RKASA]

At lest T bashing seems to be allowed, so many other things are not anymore

[mrbojangles]

At lest T bashing seems to be allowed, so many other things are not anymore

marshbags wouldn't have anything to write if T bashing wasn't allowed

[jdinasia]

Hmmm I am pretty sure that the UK and Thailand currently have "normal" relationships between the governments.

I don't see a rush to do it .. but I do see Thaksin being either returned here via extradition .. or given the opportunity to have his visa revoked and shown the door with no chance of returning whilst waiting for the charges to be settled.

It really doesn't matter how much people cry about the current government not being elected, most countries still have normal relations with Thailand. The US is unwilling to sell a few weapons directly to Thailand but does anyone doubt that they are still getting here?

The guilt of Thaksin is not in question at this time ... because he's guilty of not appearing in court to answer the charges and face trial. THAT is what the arrest warrant is for .... and that is a clear cut issue that the UK will deal with in a straight-forward way. (slow with tons of red tape ... but nobody wants a corrupt dormer PM of a SE Asian country hiding out)

[mrtoad]

Don't bet on it jdinasia, Pinochet ring any bells ?

The British government at it's finest.

[sjaak327]

Hmmm I am pretty sure that the UK and Thailand currently have "normal" relationships between the governments.

I don't see a rush to do it .. but I do see Thaksin being either returned here via extradition .. or given the opportunity to have his visa revoked and shown the door with no chance of returning whilst waiting for the charges to be settled.

It really doesn't matter how much people cry about the current government not being elected, most countries still have normal relations with Thailand. The US is unwilling to sell a few weapons directly to Thailand but does anyone doubt that they are still getting here?

The guilt of Thaksin is not in question at this time ... because he's guilty of not appearing in court to answer the charges and face trial. THAT is what the arrest warrant is for .... and that is a clear cut issue that the UK will deal with in a straight-forward way. (slow with tons of red tape ... but nobody wants a corrupt dormer PM of a SE Asian country hiding out)

Actually I cannot blame him for not wanting to return. He would be mad if he did, even though his safety was officially being guaranteed. (I'm sure nobody in their right mind would actually believe that one..)

Let's face it, the UK will not extradite under these conditions. The current Thai powers have gone out of their way to put pressure on Thaksin, his politcal party and his assets. And why I wonder was the coup carried out, surely not to save the Thai democracy. Probably to ensure that he couldn't win another election. Something that won't be admired in the rest of the world.

[johnleepbs]

It will be interesting to see how the UK reacts, given that the current Thai govt is illegal. One would assume this is a vaild reason why extradition could not go ahead, regardless of how much the Thai govt stamps it's feet over claims of corruption.

No, No, No.

The political takeover by the junta was illegal.

The current government was surely subsequently approved by the Head of State ... and is therefore entirely legal.

And it is the courts, not the government, who have ordered DL's arrest.

There is nothing legal about this government, the constitution is the law that gives government a legal status, and that one has been abolished.

I am, of course, not sure where you originate, but I can guess . Many countries do not have a constitution but have recognised governments. Most of Europe in fact! As said above the Head of State has approved it, its legal in international law and near normal relations continue apart from a bit of posturing.

All this just ensures that Thaksin stays away from Thailand for now.. it will blow over in the same way as it did with past PM's I would imagine

[Tony Clifton]

If Thaksin's name wasn't in the papers, the Thaksinistas would be crying "CENSORSHIIIP!"

[sjaak327]

It will be interesting to see how the UK reacts, given that the current Thai govt is illegal. One would assume this is a vaild reason why extradition could not go ahead, regardless of how much the Thai govt stamps it's feet over claims of corruption.

No, No, No.

The political takeover by the junta was illegal.

The current government was surely subsequently approved by the Head of State ... and is therefore entirely legal.

And it is the courts, not the government, who have ordered DL's arrest.

There is nothing legal about this government, the constitution is the law that gives government a legal status, and that one has been abolished.

I am, of course, not sure where you originate, but I can guess . Many countries do not have a constitution but have recognised governments. Most of Europe in fact! As said above the Head of State has approved it, its legal in international law and near normal relations continue apart from a bit of posturing.

All this just ensures that Thaksin stays away from Thailand for now.. it will blow over in the same way as it did with past PM's I would imagine

From Europe, in fact from a constitutional monarchy, and it is in the constitution that the head of state is determined, so approval from the head of state, of a country without an functional consitution is meaningless really

[No beleeeeve!]

Why pursue these somewhat minor charge(s) first instead of the larger ones? I would do the same thing. This forces Thaksin's legal team to play their hand, so to speak. I would use the same approach when I was an investigator when I interrogated a suspect. Once I learned the defenses a suspect used it helped me when I pursued larger charges, regardless of how much evidence I had. It worked.

You learn a lot about how the defense will react and the prosecutor will see the strategies and use that when planning the future charges.

This may or may not be the strategy but it does have some merit.

[Mid]

Ex-PM and wife Pojaman become fugitives as judge orders their arrest for failing to appear in court

Published on August 15, 2007

The Supreme Court has set September 25 for a hearing into the execution of arrest warrants for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and wife Khunying Pojaman, a step before seeking their extradition from London.

Thaksin and Pojaman became fugitives yesterday after the court ordered them to be arrested for evading judicial proceedings. The two are facing abuse-of-power charges related to a 2003 Ratchadaphisek land deal in Bangkok.

"This court finds cause to suspect the two defendants of trying to flee. Therefore, arrest warrants are deemed necessary," presiding judge Thonglor Choam-ngam said in his ruling.

Thonglor dismissed a defence argument citing safety concerns as the reason for the no-show by Thaksin and Pojaman.

Thailand is a democratic and free country and its government is obliged to ensure safety for every citizen in spite of the post-coup situation, he said, noting the defence raised speculative concerns without producing evidence of any tangible threat.

Prosecutors said they would start extradition proceedings if the Shinawatras failed to turn up for the new Supreme Court hearing on September 25.

"Since he [Thaksin] is abroad, we are left with no choice but to ask for extradition at some point, but it's too soon to tell when that would be," Athapol Yaisavang, a spokes-man for the Attorney-General's Office, said in a telephone interview with Associated Press.

Attorney-General Pachara Yutithamdamrong said yesterday morning ahead of the warrant approval that prosecutors would seek help from the United Kingdom in having Thaksin and his wife returned. However, the court can try the case in their absence, he said.

snip

nationmultimedia.com

[johnleepbs]

Hmmm I am pretty sure that the UK and Thailand currently have "normal" relationships between the governments.

I don't see a rush to do it .. but I do see Thaksin being either returned here via extradition .. or given the opportunity to have his visa revoked and shown the door with no chance of returning whilst waiting for the charges to be settled.

It really doesn't matter how much people cry about the current government not being elected, most countries still have normal relations with Thailand. The US is unwilling to sell a few weapons directly to Thailand but does anyone doubt that they are still getting here?

The guilt of Thaksin is not in question at this time ... because he's guilty of not appearing in court to answer the charges and face trial. THAT is what the arrest warrant is for .... and that is a clear cut issue that the UK will deal with in a straight-forward way. (slow with tons of red tape ... but nobody wants a corrupt dormer PM of a SE Asian country hiding out)

Actually I cannot blame him for not wanting to return. He would be mad if he did, even though his safety was officially being guaranteed. (I'm sure nobody in their right mind would actually believe that one..)

Let's face it, the UK will not extradite under these conditions. The current Thai powers have gone out of their way to put pressure on Thaksin, his politcal party and his assets. And why I wonder was the coup carried out, surely not to save the Thai democracy. Probably to ensure that he couldn't win another election. Something that won't be admired in the rest of the world.

I believe it, he has enough profile that a convenient "accident" would throw Thailand back 50 years in world opinion.

Of course the coup was carried out to ensure he could not win another election; whether it is admired in the rest of the world is neither here nor there. TRT should substitute "Thaksin" for "Thai" and it makes more sense. An old topic.

However, and it has been touched on above. Will the UK allow extradition?. Well they should... but my guess is they won't. Its too late for him to claim political refugee status but money talks

[johnleepbs]

It will be interesting to see how the UK reacts, given that the current Thai govt is illegal. One would assume this is a vaild reason why extradition could not go ahead, regardless of how much the Thai govt stamps it's feet over claims of corruption.

No, No, No.

The political takeover by the junta was illegal.

The current government was surely subsequently approved by the Head of State ... and is therefore entirely legal.

And it is the courts, not the government, who have ordered DL's arrest.

There is nothing legal about this government, the constitution is the law that gives government a legal status, and that one has been abolished.

I am, of course, not sure where you originate, but I can guess . Many countries do not have a constitution but have recognised governments. Most of Europe in fact! As said above the Head of State has approved it, its legal in international law and near normal relations continue apart from a bit of posturing.

All this just ensures that Thaksin stays away from Thailand for now.. it will blow over in the same way as it did with past PM's I would imagine

From Europe, in fact from a constitutional monarchy, and it is in the constitution that the head of state is determined, so approval from the head of state, of a country without an functional consitution is meaningless really

An example, although you seem unclear about International Law. The UK has no constititution whatsover, it is a matter of Common Law that determines what is legal and illegal. Governments are approved by the Head of State (The Queen). Do you suggest that the UK government is illegal? Err...before we take a tour of Europe try...Holland, Spain, Portugal.... need I continue?

The same happened in Thailand; the Head of State gave approval.

The current government in Thailand is entirely legal, which is why normal diplomatic relations continue... however this wanders off topic.......

[sjaak327]

It will be interesting to see how the UK reacts, given that the current Thai govt is illegal. One would assume this is a vaild reason why extradition could not go ahead, regardless of how much the Thai govt stamps it's feet over claims of corruption.

No, No, No.

The political takeover by the junta was illegal.

The current government was surely subsequently approved by the Head of State ... and is therefore entirely legal.

And it is the courts, not the government, who have ordered DL's arrest.

There is nothing legal about this government, the constitution is the law that gives government a legal status, and that one has been abolished.

I am, of course, not sure where you originate, but I can guess . Many countries do not have a constitution but have recognised governments. Most of Europe in fact! As said above the Head of State has approved it, its legal in international law and near normal relations continue apart from a bit of posturing.

All this just ensures that Thaksin stays away from Thailand for now.. it will blow over in the same way as it did with past PM's I would imagine

From Europe, in fact from a constitutional monarchy, and it is in the constitution that the head of state is determined, so approval from the head of state, of a country without an functional consitution is meaningless really

An example, although you seem unclear about International Law. The UK has no constititution whatsover, it is a matter of Common Law that determines what is legal and illegal. Governments are approved by the Head of State (The Queen). Do you suggest that the UK government is illegal? Err...before we take a tour of Europe try...Holland, Spain, Portugal.... need I continue?

The same happened in Thailand; the Head of State gave approval.

The current government in Thailand is entirely legal, which is why normal diplomatic relations continue... however this wanders off topic.......

I'm not an expert on law, but take it from me that Holland =the Netherlands indeed does have a constitution. In fact it is that constitutional monarchy I was talking about, as I am indeed a citizen from that country. In our country, it takes a 2third majority to change anything in that constitution, not a military coup. If indeed that constitution would be abolished by military force, I think it is save to say, that this is illegal. Uncontitutional to say the least.

[sbk]

Anyway, this is about Thaksin's arrest warrant and not the Netherlands

[Tony Clifton]

Why pursue these somewhat minor charge(s) first instead of the larger ones? I would do the same thing. This forces Thaksin's legal team to play their hand, so to speak. I would use the same approach when I was an investigator when I interrogated a suspect. Once I learned the defenses a suspect used it helped me when I pursued larger charges, regardless of how much evidence I had. It worked.

You learn a lot about how the defense will react and the prosecutor will see the strategies and use that when planning the future charges.

This may or may not be the strategy but it does have some merit.

I believe it's because there are numerous cases against him and these particular charges were the most evident AND easiest regarding procedure. Don't forget that Thaksin and friends have done everything possible to delay and try to derail cases against them.

[sjaak327]

Sorry, got carried away

Anway I would be surprised if this will ever go further. I mean boy the horror, a Thai politician who is corrupt, that will be a long queue.

[johnleepbs]

It will be interesting to see how the UK reacts, given that the current Thai govt is illegal. One would assume this is a vaild reason why extradition could not go ahead, regardless of how much the Thai govt stamps it's feet over claims of corruption.

No, No, No.

The political takeover by the junta was illegal.

The current government was surely subsequently approved by the Head of State ... and is therefore entirely legal.

And it is the courts, not the government, who have ordered DL's arrest.

There is nothing legal about this government, the constitution is the law that gives government a legal status, and that one has been abolished.

I am, of course, not sure where you originate, but I can guess . Many countries do not have a constitution but have recognised governments. Most of Europe in fact! As said above the Head of State has approved it, its legal in international law and near normal relations continue apart from a bit of posturing.

All this just ensures that Thaksin stays away from Thailand for now.. it will blow over in the same way as it did with past PM's I would imagine

From Europe, in fact from a constitutional monarchy, and it is in the constitution that the head of state is determined, so approval from the head of state, of a country without an functional consitution is meaningless really

An example, although you seem unclear about International Law. The UK has no constititution whatsover, it is a matter of Common Law that determines what is legal and illegal. Governments are approved by the Head of State (The Queen). Do you suggest that the UK government is illegal? Err...before we take a tour of Europe try...Holland, Spain, Portugal.... need I continue?

The same happened in Thailand; the Head of State gave approval.

The current government in Thailand is entirely legal, which is why normal diplomatic relations continue... however this wanders off topic.......

I'm not an expert on law, but take it from me that Holland =the Netherlands indeed does have a constitution. In fact it is that constitutional monarchy I was talking about, as I am indeed a citizen from that country. In our country, it takes a 2third majority to change anything in that constitution, not a military coup. If indeed that constitution would be abolished by military force, I think it is save to say, that this is illegal. Uncontitutional to say the least.

And..you said the current Thai government was illegal, despite not having knowledge of the law.

The Queen Beatrix approves the government in Holland..yes? Its a formalilty because she must... but that is the legal seal of approval.

Nobody would argue that the coup was a good thing, but it was necessary if you care about the future of Thailand. We had better continue this discussion in PM if you wish, as its hugely off topic and not surprisingly may attract moderator attention.

[jackie45]

One interpretation that is implied in several of the responses: Containment. The land deal implicates the fewest of the other influential elite that are still active and powerful in the Kingdom. Just a few expendable civil servants. A thorough investigation of the Airport, for example, would result in the implication of members of probably every influential family in the Kingdom as well as more generals than in all of the Pentagon, Russia and the continents of Africa and South America.

[tropo]

the legal implications of this Arrest Warrants are very severe for him as a lockheed1011 posted.

thailand can now demand his extradition.

in most countries it will be a imidiate arrest or a house arrest pending the rulling of the extradition process.

undoubtaly he is in for a rough ride.

doubt that any more than lip service will be paid to an extradition request by a junta who seized power at the point of a gun , fired or not .

i can belive i am saying this.

wait here it comes......

I agree with you..... there I said it.

however that will keep him busy for a while.

There won't even be "lip service" over this, only some well chosen expletives of where they can go (the Thai government).

[ColPyat]

The current government in Thailand is entirely legal, which is why normal diplomatic relations continue... however this wanders off topic.......

Relevant article of the then valid '97 constitution:

Section 63. No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of the State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution.

The present government has been put in place by a military Junta that has overthrown the interim government a few weeks before elections were set up. The overthrow was clearly illegal and unconstitutional under Thai law, and therefore this government is as well.

[Shah Jahan]

If nobody else will take him, there is always Paraguay....

[retirednavyman]

Whether these specific charges are true or not, one statement is:

Saam nahm naa

Does Saam nahm naa mean "and the saga continues"?

[The Philosopher]

The pictures attached to these reports are minor classics. One wonders if some journos are enjoying themselves.

On a more serious note, this development was inevitable. It will be interesting to see how or whether the extradiction will be sought. Obviously this intensifies pressure and no doubt the timing is helpful to the government and military. There have been a few things well timed in the last few days from their point of view.

Extradiction is not possible until Thailand has a democratically elected government

[Vulture]

The pictures attached to these reports are minor classics. One wonders if some journos are enjoying themselves.

On a more serious note, this development was inevitable. It will be interesting to see how or whether the extradiction will be sought. Obviously this intensifies pressure and no doubt the timing is helpful to the government and military. There have been a few things well timed in the last few days from their point of view.

Extradiction is not possible until Thailand has a democratically elected government

Is that your prediction then or do you actually know some law ?

[brahmburgers]

Stoneman's query is very pertinent and your response does nothing to answer it.Why has this relatively mild particular charge been placed centre stage when on the face of it there are much more serious accusations to seek Thaksin's arrest? Firstly it demonstrates that the junta has not been able to identify any corruption charge which will stick and thus justify their illegal coup d'etat.Secondly, as regards the serious human rights charges, it demonstrates the connivance of those crimes by the military/feudal apparatus.

I agree. Plus, the slowness of indictments and overall trepidations of the junta point to unsuredness among the 'powers that

be.'

Thaksin and his ilk will not be successfully extradited and will continue to thumb their noses as the Keystone Cops in Bangkok. Thaksin still has many cards to play. One example, which contemporary despots use often, is to feign ill health. Watch for that ploy if his feet get held anywhere near the fire, which they won't.

[Alex8]

Wouldnt it be great if someone made a citizens arrest when he was in the directors box at Manchester City!

You can only conduct a citizen's arrest on UK soil if the 'apprehended' has committed a crime under UK law / criminal code, or his extradition warrant has been validated by UK legal process and how would you know that?

Other than that, yes, it would be amusing or satisfying. But courts aound the world are not constructed for fairness

or justice. Law operates on vastly different tracks.

Toxin employs legal eagles who know how to manipulate the rules to his and their advantage. You don't and I don't

unless we are part of the setup.

IMO

Alex8

To the membership/readership, please forgive me my Newbie clumsiness but do feel free to pick holes in my opinions. Bless you all. Thanks. I'll enjoy locking horns with all and any. I'm still on a steep learning curve but thoroughly enjoying Thaivisa. (to you Moderators, please be patient while I'm learning)

[Alex8]

What has to be remembered is that extradition is not a case of arresting someone in the UK and putting them on the next plane home. It is a long drawn out process which can roll along for years. In Australia the authorities tried to have Christopher Skase extradited from Majorca. That went on for so long that he died before the authorities ever got a hand on him.

Just get ready for legal battles and then the sudden illnesses making the ex-PM unfit to travel. It will be a case of how long his money lasts and he still has heaps, make no mistake about that.

What was the name of that delinquent, fragile ex S.American President who was wanted by the Spanish Government, when he was visiting Europe, on UK soil? HM M.Thatcher marinated him in cotton wool in a first class mansion on the northern suburbs of London, complete with his own retinue of slaves and ringed by Brit protective troops (don't mention MI5, MI6, Special Branch, Red Berets or Hereford SAS Commandos)

The Spanish were refused. The guy was released to return home, even though he was 'supposed' to be medically unfit to travel the few miles to Spain (grounds for the Brit refusal). After he landed back on home turf, he ran around like a spring chicken, totally reinvigorated. He never went to the gallows, or did he? Did he have as much dosh as Toxin? Answers invited.

Oh mmmmmmh, as an after thought, does Pinochet click a mental link?

Signed Alex8

If I went off topic, sorry. I thought this thread was also to do with comparisons.

Sorry; don't yet know how to construct one of those funny pikkies in the top left hand corner or to take on an entertaining pseudonim.

[Alex8]

What has to be remembered is that extradition is not a case of arresting someone in the UK and putting them on the next plane home. It is a long drawn out process which can roll along for years. In Australia the authorities tried to have Christopher Skase extradited from Majorca. That went on for so long that he died before the authorities ever got a hand on him.

Just get ready for legal battles and then the sudden illnesses making the ex-PM unfit to travel. It will be a case of how long his money lasts and he still has heaps, make no mistake about that.