What Percent Of Long Term Farang Can Speak/read Thai

[teacup]

Just making a side dish to your main topic here

I’m a thai but went to school in the states, my problem here is that….

When I’m back in Thailand all my friends and family members always want to speak English to me. Of course their English speaking ability is not ...shall we say "up to the par?" – but they don’t very care anyway! So now it’s a big headache for me to converse in any topic with them when they always insist on speaking - this half thai /half English to me w/ this sort of weird mixed of Irish-Cantanese-Aussie accent!...and of course they expect me to understand them too! Still couldn’t understand most of the time, but this doesn’t matter to them much apparently…. because they say it’s very fashionable and hip/cool nowadays in Bkk metro area if you can mix in some English within a sentence. Even my 7 yrs old niece is trying this trick on me too!

It's a sign of globalization, I guess. I would assume in the next decade we - the thais - will be speaking english much more than the native language itself!

[autonomous_unit]

I believe what people are saying about the percentages not changing much after a few years. I'm going into my fourth year here with essentially zero Thai speaking ability, and I do not see any reason that will change much. At this point, I think I've adopted the feeling that I'm itinerant, whether our stay here will last another one, two, or ten years. I'm not trying to put down roots.

When I first arrived it was with the sense that I had to dig in and make a living, after relocating here with my wife due to her obligations. So I did what I knew best, which was to set up shop doing consulting in my area of expertise for the clients I knew in the west. So, my work is in English by phone and Internet. I have no local clients. My wife operates our company with me, and she deals with the Thai-language bureaucratic stuff. Things were very busy, to the point where I realized the stress and lifestyle would be my ruin. I've had to consciously reduce my work just to find time to have a sensible fitness regimen again. So, I've had very little immersion or pressure to learn Thai, and in fact I would have to take more time off to have any time to focus on something like learning a language.

As it is, my work mostly exhausts my intellectual energies... I don't even find the time to read English books for recreation anymore. To be honest, I don't have any particular urge to learn Thai versus pursuing any other academic interest that might be interesting if I found the time. I'm sure this perspective sounds a bit alien to those on this thread who seem to have the opposite experience in Thailand. I don't have an abundance of time or energy to spend integrating. It's very far down the list of priorities for me.

However, I will say that even with my limited exposure, I am starting to recognize more words and parse a little more meaning out of Thai conversations I overhear. Perhaps if I stay here long enough, some conversion will happen in my mind where enough of this background learning has accumulated to ignite. I still remember teaching myself to read English as a child, and how staring at the gibberish-filled pages of my families' books and magazines eventually turned a corner into pages of communication...

[Jingthing]

I've lived in expat enclaves in Thailand for over four years straight. I'm older than dirt and tone deaf. I know from learning a lot of Spanish that it's extremely unlikely that I'd ever become truly fluent in Thai. Besides, they only let me stay for a year at a time, so why should I invest money, time and effort in a language I may never use after the next cold November rain? One year extensions do not last forever.

Added: as for the actual numbers of expats who are fluent after given periods of time, that is unknowable.

I agree with this view. At least with Spanish. that can be used in many countries all over the world. With Thai, you can use it in Thai restaurants all over the world. So we all have to ask if the investment is worth it.

There are also some disadvantages to understanding Thai by way of ignorance is bliss. I can understand a little and the stuff I hear Thai people talking to each other about me/farangs in general when they don't know you understand isn't always pleasing.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Jingthing

[sukanyacondo]

Some people find learning languages very difficult including myself especailly with age.

[gburns57au]

can someone tell me the difference between reading and writing thai? can some people write but not read, do others read but not write?

Some can read the symbols and understand what the symbols represent but not write the symbols.

Generally those who write can read.

[kankaroo]

I suppose it really depends on how proficient you mean. I can speak Thai OK, can write it fine and can read Thai slowly with occasional hiatuses (hiatii?) - as I meet a word that I havn't used before and have to apply the rules of pronounciation in real-time...

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

Simon

I can see where you are coming from, but because of the tonal aspect of the Thai language some people (through no fault of their own) will never be able to speak it. I have a couple of friends who can understand a lot of Thai but cannot be understood when attempting to speak it. One because he is completely tone deaf, and the other has a lisp.

I also think it is hilarious when people attempt to speak Thai whilst still keeping their strong regional accent, especially cockney. "saboi de moi, mate"

[JimsKnight]

Yeah, Thai speaking seems to be going well when you're in one part of Thailand. Move to another part and its like learning to speak thai again! Pronunciation and tempo can all be different in North,South, East and West of Thailand.

[samran]

can someone tell me the difference between reading and writing thai? can some people write but not read, do others read but not write?

For me it simply boils down to my spelling in thai is terrible. I can read pretty well (trashy newspapers aside...they are hard), though not a light speed. But ask me to write out what I have just read, and it all goes pear shaped without a good dictionary at my side. I used to be a lot better at it (studied it at uni for 3 years) but the second you stop using it, you lose it!

[steveromagnino]

can someone tell me the difference between reading and writing thai? can some people write but not read, do others read but not write?

For me it simply boils down to my spelling in thai is terrible. I can read pretty well (trashy newspapers aside...they are hard), though not a light speed. But ask me to write out what I have just read, and it all goes pear shaped without a good dictionary at my side. I used to be a lot better at it (studied it at uni for 3 years) but the second you stop using it, you lose it!

Very true, although in Samran's case he is part Australian so it is expected he wuold knot b abel to spel at all.

Tata is another one who cannot write, but reads ok, so you are in good company Samroi.

[AlexLah]

I also think it is hilarious when people attempt to speak Thai whilst still keeping their strong regional accent, especially cockney. "saboi de moi, mate"

Ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa,

I have heard like that a few times and mostly when going through immigration when arriving here.

Another one, : Ko (like owe) tuut crap, or : Sawet di crap

Anyway back in the learning books for me ahum, lesson one.......... (boat ti nong)

ha ha ha

[mellow1]

In the 5yrs. I've been living here,I don't believe that I have learned a lot of the Thai language.In that time I have almost always made myself understood,one way or another.This is mainly achieved when communicating with people who want to,and try to understand.I don't really interact a lot socially with many Thais, outside the family.At shops or doing business a few people can speak a little English,and with the little Thai that I know, we work it out.Every now and then I run into some Thais that speak English well enough to have a running conversation.I find that in the last year or so, I can get a pretty good understanding of whats going on, in a Thai conversation,but a lot of it probably involves filling in the blanks with gestures and moods observed.I speak English and French fluently,and I can get by speaking, and understanding German.But Thai words just don't have anything that I can associate them to.While English,French,and German,have similar sounding words,and Latin as a root language.I also live out in the countryside,and don't have much need to go to Town.Many of the people around where I live, walk cattle or buffalo,at night they party,and the next day they follow their cattle around some more,or sleep under a tree and go looking for them when they wake up.I can't think of anything that I want to talk about with them.Our lifestyles are vastly different.In the US. I knew Thais,Germans,French,Russian,Iranian and many other nationalities that couldn't speak English,and hung around their own groups for all their lives,I don't recall people wanting to deport them for their lack of language skills,as someone on TV suggested.Maybe they should.Either way it doesn't matter,no one ever calls me up, to find out what to do, on any of these decisions.

[villagefarang]

When Thais quit telling you how good your Thai is, you know that it is finally pretty good. I learned to read and write as well but really never had much need to use it outside of reading menus and signs and the like. I find Farangs that use literary words to an excess are very annoying. Spoken and written language can be quite different.

[scousemouse]

what do you think are the %'s for farang in thailand for

3 yrs

5 yrs

7 yrs

10 yrs

that can speak thai / read thai

I was fluent in speaking after 3 years and o-k in reading and writing after 5 years ( I've been here 6 years ).

[Rionoir]

Interesting thread, I am still in the US on about lesson 12 of my Pimsleur Thai CDs, but was just asking my partner the other day how many farang actually speak Thai there. Glad to hear so many do - it really seems like a relatively simple language compared to most others I've learned, as long as one can grasp the concept of tones.

Whoever said they just finished the book about the cat - HILARIOUS! I totally was planning on buying a ton of kids books when I got there!

And totally agree that the best way to motivate yourself to learn Thai is to start dating someone who's family speaks zero english. lol

[Ulysses G.]

There are also some disadvantages to understanding Thai by way of ignorance is bliss. I can understand a little and the stuff I hear Thai people talking to each other about me/farangs in general when they don't know you understand isn't always pleasing.

They mostly seem to talk about money, food and how fat I am!

[crowbait]

I've been to Thailand on hols 5 times and can now order a meal (culinary Thai), ask for the bill and count out the change in Thai. Also (most impoortantly) ask for the toilet..............but he1l, I can do that in 8 other languages, it's sooo necessary.

Spoken Thai seems to be a lot easier than Greek which I have been learning for 4 years, I can't comment on written Thai 'coz the thought of learning another complete alphabet makes me want to go somewhere and open a vein.

I think it helps if one can already handle more than one language at any level of competence 'coz adding another doesn't seem half so bad.

I think also it helps to be musical........all languages have a music to them, if you can get the feel of the music then it helps you to extract the meaning of what is being said without knowing all of the words. If you can mimic the music when you speak the language you seem to be understood better as well.........never mind Brummy/Thai or any other awful combination.

Which reminds me, back in Thailand in Jan, I'd better get the books and tapes out again.

[PeaceBlondie]

I see that Crowbait just mentioned alphabets, and Greek, and Thai. I wasted four days and nights in Moscow because I couldn't read Cyrillic alphabet, and didn't remember the commonalities it had to Greek.

Learning Thai reminds me of the foreigner in Texas who thought he could teach me voice because my wife was a good musician. He showed us some Italian opera on the piano and asked us to sing it. Or he sang it and asked us to play it. I told him I felt like I was in Hungary or Finland, learning Urdu from an Australian aborigine that was speaking in falsetto Swahili.

It's all Greek to me, without even being Greek. I also rebel against the phonetic alphabet. And to borrow a song title, I will survive. My partner does the Thai stuff for me, I don't teach native Thais anymore. Yes, learning Thai would probably help me to understand the soap operas.

I can learn new things, but some things like foreign languages, I never was good at, and I'm getting more worser.

[wittleus]

Been in Thailand over 5 years on part-time basis (stay about 6 months a year) because I still have home in USA as well and some business concerns. Except for my teenage girls, my family speaks only Thai (including relatives) so my spoken Thai has progressed greatly over 5 years, especially when I convinced my girls they could correct my Thai and I would not "lose face."

Last year I finally took a reading and writing course and realized (as I started to actually see the words I was saying) how badly I had been mispronouncing many of the words and how polite many of thais were, not correcting me at every turn. Over the years, the Thais in my immediate surroundings had grown familiar with my voice, cadence, and even mistakes in pronounciation and vocabulary to the point that they understood me quite well, even though I was making egregious errors.

Long term ignorance also manifests itself when you begin to read and write. Just one example--many Thais, (either because they are not well educated or sometimes they are but fall into casual, pronunciation) will pronouce word for car as "lawt", surprise is the word is really "rawt", using "raw reua", not "law ling" when written. So when you start reading and writing you encounter many words that you probably know as a speaker, but will probably not recognize (first time) as a reader or sound out as a writer.

Anyway, there are innumerable examples. And spelling, just like English spelling is sometimes a matter of memorization--how many words in Thai have a silent "haw heep" vs. how many words in English have silent "h's". With more practice it becomes easier and your mind makes notes and even sees patterns in words that seemingly don't fit the standard rules. When I go out of the country, I insist that my family and friends send me e-mails in Thai and I respond in Thai. Buy your own 200 Baht Thai keyboard at Big C before you leave because finding a inexpensive Thai keyboard in USA is difficult (unless you live in Los Angeles area).

[jaiyenjohn]

I lived in Thailand for seven years, and only picked up a very basic level of Thai. I wasn't going to be able to talk religion or philosophy but basic fundamental communications were ok. I made some effort by taking a class, but I always felt guilty that my Thai wasn't better after living in the country for so long.

Something I've noticed, now that I'm back in the USA is the fact that I can't tune out other people's conversations anymore. Because of my lack of fluency in Thai it was very easy to relegate all the cacophony of conversations around me into background noise. It kept me very calm and peaceful even in the most crowded and noisy environments. I think this was a big reason I found living in Thailand so peaceful. I could always just collapse inward.

I worry that if my Thai improved to where I could understand everything, would I find living there nearly as peaceful?

[DurianChips]

Buy your own 200 Baht Thai keyboard at Big C before you leave because finding a inexpensive Thai keyboard in USA is difficult (unless you live in Los Angeles area).

Even easier, just buy some keyboard stickers. They are transparent, permanent, and you just stick them onto the keys of any keyboard you might buy here in the States. That way you don't have to worry about damaging the keyboard on your journey (This happened to me the first time I tried to bring a keyboard back; the 'T' key never did work) Stickers shouldn't cost any more than 40 baht or so, and should be available in Bangkok.

[Jimjim]

Something I've noticed, now that I'm back in the USA is the fact that I can't tune out other people's conversations anymore. Because of my lack of fluency in Thai it was very easy to relegate all the cacophony of conversations around me into background noise. It kept me very calm and peaceful even in the most crowded and noisy environments. I think this was a big reason I found living in Thailand so peaceful. I could always just collapse inward.

I worry that if my Thai improved to where I could understand everything, would I find living there nearly as peaceful?

Sounds peaceful yet lonely?

[Suszzy]

foreigners speak thai..i find it very...very cute! !

[Upcountry]

Personally, if I wasn't so busy day-to-day, or if I put Thai TV on in the background, I would probably know more Thai. Like many of you, I can get by well enough for the most part with what I know, but there are definitely some troublesome moments.

Just yesterday I needed the word for "air", as in air bubbles in a water tube. I couldn't get the Thais I was talking to to understand me. If I had had a dictionary with me I could have pulled it out and showed them the word.

I just did a search on "talking dictionaries". They are a bit pricey (like mobile phones - too bad my phone doesn't have a translator in it! ), but if I had one handy it would help me get the pronunciation right when I need a word.

I wonder which one is best, and where I should buy it. Maybe I'll check out what they sell at Big C today (hopefully Thai words pronounced).

Can anyone here recommend a good one?

[oldhand]

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

No, a VISA extension doesn't indicate that someone wants to integrate themselfs, it's just a wish to remain in place longer, be it for family or job. An expat relocated here to guide a regional office for 2 years shouldn't be demanded to learn the language to get his VISA since it has no true bearing on his job. If it had, he would already handle this with the company he is employed by.

....and don't forget that a lot of Thais don't want or like farangs speaking THEIR language!

I am sorry but this is absolute cr#p. The only Thais that dislike you speaking their language are the low lifes trying to rip you off and if you are staying here long term you should not be dealing with these people.

I get more done, I get a lot of smiles, I get assistance that Thais don't get, - all of this because I am a farang speaking Thai. If you want to make this your home then you should learn it if you can. Do it nice and it will open doors that you never would have dreamed of.

[sangfroid]

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

No, a VISA extension doesn't indicate that someone wants to integrate themselfs, it's just a wish to remain in place longer, be it for family or job. An expat relocated here to guide a regional office for 2 years shouldn't be demanded to learn the language to get his VISA since it has no true bearing on his job. If it had, he would already handle this with the company he is employed by.

....and don't forget that a lot of Thais don't want or like farangs speaking THEIR language!

I am sorry but this is absolute cr#p. The only Thais that dislike you speaking their language are the low lifes trying to rip you off and if you are staying here long term you should not be dealing with these people.

I get more done, I get a lot of smiles, I get assistance that Thais don't get, - all of this because I am a farang speaking Thai. If you want to make this your home then you should learn it if you can. Do it nice and it will open doors that you never would have dreamed of.

That reminds me of the Thai saying "Farang ruu maak mai dii" ฝรั่งรู้มากไม่ดี "A farang who knows too much is not a good thing" (usually used by the bar girls)

Edited August 19, 2007 by sangfroid

[oldhand]

Spot - you should speak to your kid in both languages - so many people get obsessed with their kid speaking english; they are like sponges and will do just fine hearing your wife's butchered english (perhaps) and your butchered Thai (;-)) - just speak lots to them and teach them lots of stuff instead of plonking them in front of TV is a massive head start :_)

Sorry Steve - but this is wrong advice.

When I had my first kid I contacted a professor of languages specialising in multi lingual kids. Their advice was as follows:

Each parent should speak to their child exclusively in their native language. In addition to this the language spoken between the parents should always be the same one.

In my case

I speak exclusively to my kids in English

My wife speaks exclusively to my kids in Thai

When I am speaking to my wife or she to me in the house it is always in Thai.

My kids are now 10 and 9 and we have just started to make changes to this as I can teach them their Thai homework better than my wife, other than that we still stick to it.

My kids are fluent in both languages, they have never been mixed up or confused and they speak both languages as a native.

IMHO I was give the right advice, I have seen many, many, families doing otherwise and none of the kids have the fluency of mine. It is hard at times but worth it.

Hope this is of help

[meadish_sweetball]

The only Thai people I have bumped into who will complain about farang who speak Thai or 'know too much', are those who work in tourist/farang places where few Thais go. Usually it's said in a joking way too.

In all other places I go, I will get positive remarks, if any.

[Goldcup]

Are there any intensive university thai classes for foreigners?

[disforkid]

<br />

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

<br /><br />No, a VISA extension doesn't indicate that someone wants to integrate themselfs, it's just a wish to remain in place longer, be it for family or job. An expat relocated here to guide a regional office for 2 years shouldn't be demanded to learn the language to get his VISA since it has no true bearing on his job. If it had, he would already handle this with the company he is employed by.<br />

<br /><br />....and don't forget that a lot of Thais don't want or like farangs speaking THEIR language!<br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Revealing your ignorance.....Opps Me thinks someone spends too much time in girly bars/crappy tourist areas as thats the only time you will hear a Thai person say that they don't want to hear foreigners speaking Thai. And the only reason they don't like it is because if you speak Thai well enough you know the 'Thai way' and they can't rip you off!

I have lived and worked in many places in Thailand and outside of girly bars/crappy tourist ares you only get positive responses from Thai people if you can speak Thai - and in fact most of the time they well moan about laugh about farangs who have lived here for years and can't speak a word of Thai (especially BKK taxi drivers!) it makes no sense to them - this after all is Thailand, and if you can't speak Thai after living here for more than a couple of years you should be down right ashamed of yourself - thats pathetic!

[distortedlink]

I suppose it really depends on how proficient you mean. I can speak Thai OK, can write it fine and can read Thai slowly with occasional hiatuses (hiatii?) - as I meet a word that I havn't used before and have to apply the rules of pronounciation in real-time...

I personally cannot understand why a 1-year visa extension application does not require proof of ability to (at least), speak passable Thai. After all, a visa extension application implies that one wishes to remain in Thailand for a reasonable length of time. Integration into Thai society, (if that's what we 'farang' should be doing) - implies knowledge of the local language and culture.

Simon

That`s OK for you to say, you claim that you can already speak, read and write in Thai.

I have been here for many years and can only speak a few words of Thai. Tried so darn hard but maybe a brain cell or two missing, just cant grasp it.

I personally know of many other English & American people here who have tried, some have even been to learn at the AUA and still cant speak hardly a word in Thai.

I suppose the ones like myself who cant speak the lingo often take it for granted that there is always a Thai somewhere who speaks English, especially in a shop or if we require a service of some kind.

I do realise that life in Thailand for farangs would be greatly enhanced if they spoke Thai language and if anyone has any good suggestions for the best and easiest ways to learn Thai, I am all ears, providing the instructions are in English of course.

I think if immigration stipulated that a farang must speak Thai in order to obtain an annual visa, most of us would be gone within the next twelve months.

Am I ashamed that I cant speak Thai? Yes, very.

Edited August 19, 2007 by distortedlink