Mohammad Ali Or Tiger Woods

[Prakanong]

I've watched every Ali fight, some live in theatres in UK. I predicted that Frazier would beat him in '71 , but to me he was the simply the best athlete I've ever seen.

Tiger Woods is supreme at what he does and after his performance these last two weeks ( win win ) you have to wonder can anyone be better.

Well consider this, at his peak they got Ali to hit a golf ball, and he murdered it a very long way ( mid 70's ).

I am wondering if Tiger can really surpass Ali in pure simple athletic prowess.

Steve Davis ( 6 x snooker world champion ) always said a little luck and not a little natural talent helped.

What do you think sport fans

Ali was the greatest - as a sportmsman and as a spokesman for his generation. Tiger bottles it and will not admit where he is from

[Prakanong]

I've watched every Ali fight, some live in theatres in UK. I predicted that Frazier would beat him in '71 , but to me he was the simply the best athlete I've ever seen.

Tiger Woods is supreme at what he does and after his performance these last two weeks ( win win ) you have to wonder can anyone be better.

Well consider this, at his peak they got Ali to hit a golf ball, and he murdered it a very long way ( mid 70's ).

I am wondering if Tiger can really surpass Ali in pure simple athletic prowess.

Steve Davis ( 6 x snooker world champion ) always said a little luck and not a little natural talent helped.

What do you think sport fans

Ali was the greatest - as a sportmsman and as a spokesman for his generation. Tiger bottles it and will not admit where he is from

[lazeeboy]

I've watched every Ali fight, some live in theatres in UK. I predicted that Frazier would beat him in '71 , but to me he was the simply the best athlete I've ever seen.

Tiger Woods is supreme at what he does and after his performance these last two weeks ( win win ) you have to wonder can anyone be better.

Well consider this, at his peak they got Ali to hit a golf ball, and he murdered it a very long way ( mid 70's ).

I am wondering if Tiger can really surpass Ali in pure simple athletic prowess.

Steve Davis ( 6 x snooker world champion ) always said a little luck and not a little natural talent helped.

What do you think sport fans

Ali was the greatest - as a sportmsman and as a spokesman for his generation. Tiger bottles it and will not admit where he is from

saw many ali fights ,never bottled it and fought everyone that was around ,for me there is no one better ,shame how he's ended up ..

[OneeyedJohn]

Thanks everyone for all of your very interesting comments. Yes to me Ali is a living God.

His current ailment (Parkinsons) is I am sure something he blames no-one for. He is that kind of man.

He has a daughter ( Leila ) who is doing the unbelievable in womens boxing.

Ali is revered by millions across the world and rightly so.

[Old Man River]

We're primarily talking about golf and heavyweight boxing, two minor sports that most educated people throughout the world don't watch. Two individual sports, not team sports. Not to criticize the accomplishments of any great athlete, but a little, old, bald, frail man from India changed the world far more than any athlete ever did. Long after Ali and Woods are known only in sports, it will be admitted that the Christ, the Buddha, and Gandhi changed the world.

Other than the fact that this is in the Sports, Hobbies and Activities section and the thread is about "Ali or Woods", I couldn't argue with you.

[chinthee]

We're primarily talking about golf and heavyweight boxing, two minor sports that most educated people throughout the world don't watch. Two individual sports, not team sports. Not to criticize the accomplishments of any great athlete, but a little, old, bald, frail man from India changed the world far more than any athlete ever did. Long after Ali and Woods are known only in sports, it will be admitted that the Christ, the Buddha, and Gandhi changed the world.

PB, beg to differ. BTW, your knowledge of classic autos is 1st rate. Anyway, back to golf. Most people I know who watch golf are educated, and in the upper ranks of earners worldwide. Boxing is just plain fun, regardless of education, though criticized as being too boring for today's fighting fan. Mixed Martial Arts, Ultimate Fighting really threatens Boxiing's future.

[digitele]

We're primarily talking about golf and heavyweight boxing, two minor sports that most educated people throughout the world don't watch. Two individual sports, not team sports. Not to criticize the accomplishments of any great athlete, but a little, old, bald, frail man from India changed the world far more than any athlete ever did. Long after Ali and Woods are known only in sports, it will be admitted that the Christ, the Buddha, and Gandhi changed the world.

Other than the fact that this is in the Sports, Hobbies and Activities section and the thread is about "Ali or Woods", I couldn't argue with you.

Me too. Good 1 old man river!

[JimmyCA]

Ali was an athlete as boxing is a sport

Woods is a hobbyist as golf is a hobby or pastime like snooker, chess or poker. Any fat wad can do these things.

So I choose Ali

Any fat wad? If you can find some fat on Tiger Woods, let me know. Golf as a hobby? Obviously you have never played the game. Let's see how you do when you have to sink a six-foot putt to win $1 million. Or when you have to thread a drive 290 yards down a narrow fairway on the 18th hole in order to win a championship. Duh!

Are you saying that you MUST be in top physical condition to PLAY golf? I say any fat wad can PLAY, and have some chance of winning. Golf is much more like bowling or pool than boxing. Not a sport.

[chinthee]

Ali was an athlete as boxing is a sport

Woods is a hobbyist as golf is a hobby or pastime like snooker, chess or poker. Any fat wad can do these things.

So I choose Ali

Any fat wad? If you can find some fat on Tiger Woods, let me know. Golf as a hobby? Obviously you have never played the game. Let's see how you do when you have to sink a six-foot putt to win $1 million. Or when you have to thread a drive 290 yards down a narrow fairway on the 18th hole in order to win a championship. Duh!

Are you saying that you MUST be in top physical condition to PLAY golf? I say any fat wad can PLAY, and have some chance of winning. Golf is much more like bowling or pool than boxing. Not a sport.

I always thought Monty (Colin Montgomerie) cut a fine forme, along with Jack Nicklaus in his later years with his pronounced paunch. Come on, golf is about mental toughness, absolute single-mindedness, focus, and many other things. And, since the Shark from Oz, it's about fitness as well, as evidenced by Tiger, the new generation of player. Any club pro can hit a par or sub par round on any given day. How many can do this 365 days a year. Horsehockey that Golf isn't a world class sport.

Edited August 19, 2007 by chinthee

[Lucifer]

Sir Donald Bradman. No contest.

Agreed.

Dick Reynolds is the greatest ever Aussie Rules player though.

Rubbish.

There was so much racism in the old days, that not many blacks were competing.

Nowadays there are no whites running. They're not fast enough.

[Amethyst]

Ali!! Ali!! Ali!!

Muhammad Ali punches challenger Joe Frazier in the head during their 1975 heavyweight title fight in Manila, Philippines.

Fly Like a Butterfly Sting Like a Bee

[bendix]

ESPN greatest N. Am. athletes of the 20th century only puts Ali in 3rd, behind 1st Michael Jordan, and Babe Ruth - Gretsky at 5th.

I think Jack Nicklaus would be delighted and honored to witness Tiger tie and break his record. He's said as much already - another class guy.

I had to laugh at the ESPN list and the US-centric nature of it. It reminds me of actor and writer Stephen Fry's answer to a question on some US chat show:

Interviewer: "What do you think is the biggest difference between the US and the rest of the world?"

Fry: "Well, when other countries organise world championships in sporting events, they are polite enough to invite competitors from other countries."

Two thirds of the world have never heard of baseball, let alone Babe Ruth.

There was a time when Ali was the most famous man on the planet, loved and revered in big cities, in villages, and across continents. In my view, he still is. Ali goes beyond sport - he is iconic, a symbol of the second half of the 20th century. His like will never be seen again. He is the greatest.

Woods is a phenomena. A huge talent and he seems like a decent chap. He has the potential to be the Ali of his generation, but only in the sporting arena. He doesnt touch people in the way Ali did, and still does.

Ali? The moments and memories are priceless. The fights. The lip. That famous poster of him shouting at an opponent to get up. Throwing away his Olympic gold medals. The ban. The humanity. But the greatest Ali image for me was seeing the pride in his eyes as he lit the flame at the Olympics starting ceremony a few years ago, his whole body shaking with Parkinsons. I'm proud to say that brought tears to my eyes.

[chinthee]

Bendix, agree with you, but I did say that list was of "North American" athletes. It wasn't intended as a world's best. Still, you do have to question why Ali was only 3rd...

[Ritti]

Well the way I view it, Ali would of been famous in any sport he liked. He could of been a first class NBA pleyer, Great NBL player, athletic champion or natural sportsman yet he prefered the square ring, where any mistake could mean a KO. Fighting against Liston, Smokin Joe and the mighty Forman Ali proved time and time again that his skills could not be matched

I am not an Ali fan (a liar, cheat, thief and racist) but as an athlete I believe no one can match him

If Tiger quit golf what else could he do???? NOTHING

Also like to metion Andrew"Joey" Johns. This man dominated the toughest sport in the world

[bendix]

I am not an Ali fan (a liar, cheat, thief and racist) but as an athlete I believe no one can match him

Huh? Liar, cheat, thief and racist? Do you want to elaborate?

[cdnvic]

I am not an Ali fan (a liar, cheat, thief and racist)

Well, you can't be everything. Four out of five's not bad.

[roietjimmy]

Still, you do have to question why Ali was only 3rd...

Along with being the greatest, Ali was the most controversial sports celebrity America has ever witnessed. To many white Americans he challenged the status quo i.e. "black men should know their place". His outspoken behavior as a boxer and his conversion to Islam further inflamed his detractors. And the final straw!! "I'm not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end."

Even in the current era of "enlightened" thinking, for many Ali represents all things "Unamerican". Consequently, recognition of his greatness will only come long after he is gone.

Edited August 26, 2007 by roietjimmy

[vegas]

Sir Donald Bradman. No contest.

Without doubt the Don is the best. Statistics don't lie and his record will almost certanly never be beaten. There is no other sport where one champion stands so far above all the others.

Ali and Woods? Only if you come from a country where baseballers and grid irons team are declared 'world champions' in a domestic competition that the rest of the world ignores.

Don Bradman is number 1, the rest are not in the same league.

[bendix]

Oh come on. I'm a cricket fan, but even I know it's a marginal sport. Bradman might have been best in the world at that support, but you can hardly claim it has universal appeal. Who, outside of the major cricket countries, have heard of Bradnam?

Ali, on the other hand, was/is universal. And it belies your implication of US bias when you consider he is probably more popular OUTSIDE the US than inside, for the reasons roletjimmy mentioned above.

[mikethevigoman]

If you are talking sportmen probably Tiger, personallity wise Ali wins hands down.. Tiger has the personality of a Traffic warden .

[mikethevigoman]

bigpond.com

next ......................

MD the king !

[mikethevigoman]

Eddy the eagle !

[mikethevigoman]

It is very difficult to compare great athletes from different sports. All are dominant in their sports genre. If you consider all aspects of these athletes, from their dominance of their sport, to their global impact that goes outside athletics, then I think Ali is still the greatest. Tiger Woods is still a young man in a sport that allows its athletes to continue on well after most athletes in other sports have retired. He still has another 20 years to add to his legacy. When he is through, he will be the most dominant athlete of any sport. But I don't think he has the same charisma as Ali...very few athletes ever have. Tiger still values his privacy and he is not by nature an extrovert like Ali was.

Well put , if this had asked who has/had the better personaility/charisma it only needs one round, ! and the winner is .... mohammed ali

[Donnyboy]

I am not an Ali fan (a liar, cheat, thief and racist)

Well, you can't be everything. Four out of five's not bad.

[vegas]

Oh come on. I'm a cricket fan, but even I know it's a marginal sport. Bradman might have been best in the world at that support, but you can hardly claim it has universal appeal. Who, outside of the major cricket countries, have heard of Bradnam?

Ali, on the other hand, was/is universal. And it belies your implication of US bias when you consider he is probably more popular OUTSIDE the US than inside, for the reasons roletjimmy mentioned above.

I thought we were talking best athlete, not most interesting personality, international appeal etc. To me that means the best of the best, not just an opinion. So in terms of figures, in comparison to others in the same sport, no other athlete can claim to be almost twice as good as their peers in terms of actual sporting results. Bradman average 99.94, the rest, 50-60. Does matter if 300,000,000 yanks haven't heard of him. Don't forget that 270,000,000 yanks don't own a passport. That'll give you an idea how sheltered they are.

[OneeyedJohn]

<<<<. Don't forget that 270,000,000 yanks don't own a passport. That'll give you an idea how sheltered they are.

Now that is a scary statistic.

[roietjimmy]

<<<<. Don't forget that 270,000,000 yanks don't own a passport. That'll give you an idea how sheltered they are.

Now that is a scary statistic.

You think that's scary!! The best I can determine given the difficulty in finding statistics on how many people from the various countries have passports is:

USA - 76,000,000 (No. 1 in the world)

UK - 39,000,000 (No. 2 in the world)

China - 26,000,000 (only 2% of the population)

Japan - 22,000,000

Canada - 13,000,000

Australia - 8,000,000

Edited August 27, 2007 by roietjimmy

[TBWG]

<<<<. Don't forget that 270,000,000 yanks don't own a passport. That'll give you an idea how sheltered they are.

Now that is a scary statistic.

You think that's scary!! The best I can determine given the difficulty in finding statistics on how many people from the various countries have passports is:

USA - 76,000,000 (No. 1 in the world)

UK - 39,000,000 (No. 2 in the world)

China - 26,000,000 (only 2% of the population)

Japan - 22,000,000

Canada - 13,000,000

Australia - 8,000,000

Hi

Now I am not a current fan of all things American, but I think their lack of world awareness could be put down to the size of the country.

Approaching 60% of Brits have passports, but the UK is very small and if you want to ski or dive or just want some sun you have go abroad, the US is such a vast place that whatever their needs it is available "in House" so why go to all the hassle of passports visa's etc, etc, associated with international travel.

Unfortunately this has led to a very parochial outlook, despite probably having the most international mix of citizens. They say travel broadens the mind and personally I think it would do them a lot of good to get about more and see that there are other alternatives to a material greed/fame based culture.

For all his faults Clinton was at least well travelled and to my mind had a the best grasp of foreign policy.

Now to keep it on topic "Eddie the eagle" gets my vote

TBWG

[calibanjr.]

Hi

Now I am not a current fan of all things American, but I think their lack of world awareness could be put down to the size of the country.

Approaching 60% of Brits have passports, but the UK is very small and if you want to ski or dive or just want some sun you have go abroad, the US is such a vast place that whatever their needs it is available "in House" so why go to all the hassle of passports visa's etc, etc, associated with international travel.

Unfortunately this has led to a very parochial outlook, despite probably having the most international mix of citizens. They say travel broadens the mind and personally I think it would do them a lot of good to get about more and see that there are other alternatives to a material greed/fame based culture.

For all his faults Clinton was at least well travelled and to my mind had a the best grasp of foreign policy.

Now to keep it on topic "Eddie the eagle" gets my vote

TBWG

Just to broaden that point, I haven't done the research for data post-youknowwhen, but up until then (about 6 years ago), if you lived in the states, you could pretty much go anywhere in North F'ing America without passport: Canada, Mexico, Carribean, Central America, blah, blah, blah. You could go from the tropics to the north pole (within a broad longitudinal area), with a driver's license/student ID. I rode a motorcycle from Santa Fe NM to San Jose, Costa Rica, never got checked by anyone for more that my driver's license. The only people who give you crap are, of course, the US govt. So yeah, if you lived in the Midwest (or even the East Coast) whatever, you'd have to fly a couple thousand miles, over oceans, before you'd NEED a passport.

I won't argue that that kind of distance doesn't result in a degree of provincialism, but it's worth noting the causality.

Don't get me started on the "least traveled" (physically AND mentally) president and what his provincialism/idiocy have achieved.

BTW, am I to take it that these people who are whining about Americans' passport numbers want to see us double that level and start showing up en masse in their hometown?

I don't understand enough about the rules of cricket (only watch it on WETV here in CM) to slag on a cricketer (cricketeer?) being a greater athlete than Ali, even given the truly outstanding statistics cited, but let's just say it seems counter-intuitive to me.

Edited August 28, 2007 by calibanjr.

[vegas]

USA - 76,000,000 (No. 1 in the world)

Does the include or exclude the military? If military is not included then the handful of yanks I know in Bangkok probably make up the majority those living abroad.