Global Correction

[LaoPo]

Lots going on in Europe too. Probably going to cut interest rates this week and then there's this:

I don't understand...

As far as I know many parties have asked the respective Courts in their home countries as well as in Iceland (as far as the last 3 Banks in your image are concerned) to seize/block all assets of those 3 banks. (if there are any assets left..... )

How come there will be a "Net Fund Transfer" or AUCTION as it says ? .....

LaoPo

http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008/11/d...s_prepare_f.php

http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008/10/c...tions_for_i.php

Thank you !

It explains a bit more clear what's happening....and that's not very nice for some people/banks/hedge funds and the like...

"The bonds of Landsbanki, Kaupthing Bank hf and Glitnir Banki hf, Iceland's three largest banks, are trading at a dismal 3 to 5 cents on the euro, a broker at KNG Securities in London told Bloomberg. The auction for Landsbanki will take place on Tuesday November 4; with Glitnir Banki taking place the next day followed by Kaupthing's the day after that.

With bondholders expected to recover so little of the debt's value, sellers of the credit default swaps are on the hook for the rest."

http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008/11/d...s_prepare_f.php

A lot more Billions will go up in smoke and the pain for the sellers will be severe................OUCH...

LaoPo

Edited November 3, 2008 by LaoPo

[bingobongo]

you have not seen anything yet, the second wave is coming....................are you ready

soon many will learn a very expensive lesson in futility

Edited November 3, 2008 by bingobongo

[lannarebirth]

you have not seen anything yet, the second wave is coming....................are you ready

soon many will learn a very expensive lesson in futility

That would be this:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...opStories_ssi_5

http://www.responsiblelending.org/news/new...-last-year.html

Non secured debt:

[LaoPo]

you have not seen anything yet, the second wave is coming....................are you ready

soon many will learn a very expensive lesson in futility

That would be this:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...opStories_ssi_5

http://www.responsiblelending.org/news/new...-last-year.html

Non secured debt:

Yeah....to be expected.......""The next horror for beaten-down financial firms is the $950 billion worth of outstanding credit-card debt—much of it toxic. ""

The Credit Card Bubble is something typical Anglo I suppose (USA, UK, OZ...) as the EU mainland doesn't have such a bad bubble in Credit Cards as most people pay either cash or with debit cards.

The EU doesn't have the phenomenon of Joe-the-Plumber with an average of 7 Credit Cards.

LaoPo

[flying]

[

Yeah....to be expected.......""The next horror for beaten-down financial firms is the $950 billion worth of outstanding credit-card debt—much of it toxic. ""

LaoPo

When you say most of it toxic......Does that mean that even credit card debt was bundled & sold? I did not think so but I guess anything is possible.

If it was not sold then it is bad debt for the issuing bank. The same bank that probably should have never lent Joe six pack more $$$ to buy more 6 packs.

So I hope they enjoy their debt.

[PCA]

I feel bottom in the stock markets during next week and as well in EUR/JPY. Alex spray your magic to make this the real deal.

You were right. I spent around 45k in last 2 weeks over 10 different stocks and all are now in the green. Mostly commodities that were way oversold so I'm very happy as a 1st time investor although it was more luck than knowledge ,it HAD to bottom soon and just about everything is up

It was just a sentiment judgement followed by an overdue bounce coupled with election fuel. What counts are the next 2 weeks if we can call it a bottom or not. In your case I would take out half of your position with profit, put a stop for the remaining at break even of your initial purchase price and let it run wherever. With that move you banked in a quick profit and took out the risk for the rest of your money at the same time. Not the full risk as you are not protected against big gaps down nevertheless thats the right thing to do. In my oppinion we will go further down but oppinions are hindering when making investment decisions.

[LaoPo]

[

Yeah....to be expected.......""The next horror for beaten-down financial firms is the $950 billion worth of outstanding credit-card debt—much of it toxic. ""

LaoPo

When you say most of it toxic......Does that mean that even credit card debt was bundled & sold? I did not think so but I guess anything is possible.

If it was not sold then it is bad debt for the issuing bank. The same bank that probably should have never lent Joe six pack more $$$ to buy more 6 packs.

So I hope they enjoy their debt.

Mea Culpa: I should have mentioned that the sentence in BOLD was taken from the 1st link, Lannarebirth supplied:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...opStories_ssi_5

LaoPo

[flying]

Mea Culpa: I should have mentioned that the sentence in BOLD was taken from the 1st link, Lannarebirth supplied:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...opStories_ssi_5

LaoPo

Right I see that now

You know this is their new catch phrase

Toxic ...... our financial system like our nuclear waste & govt is toxic

Number 3 below fits best.

1 : containing or being poisonous material especially when capable of causing death or serious debilitation <toxic waste> <a toxic radioactive gas> <an insecticide highly toxic to birds>

2 : exhibiting symptoms of infection or toxicosis <the patient became toxic two days later>

3 : extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful <toxic sarcasm>

[LaoPo]

When you say most of it toxic......Does that mean that even credit card debt was bundled & sold? I did not think so but I guess anything is possible.

If it was not sold then it is bad debt for the issuing bank. The same bank that probably should have never lent Joe six pack more $$$ to buy more 6 packs.

So I hope they enjoy their debt.

You were closer than we thought....

Citigroup says it lost $1.44B on credit card bonds

Citigroup says it lost $1.44 billion in 3Q selling bonds backed by credit cards

November 03, 2008: 09:29 AM EST

NEW YORK (Associated Press) - Citigroup Inc. lost $1.44 billion during the third quarter from packaging credit card debt and selling it as bonds, the banking company says.

It is widely expected credit card lenders will face mounting losses through at least 2009 amid a broader downturn in the global economy. Analysts expect delinquencies and charge-offs _ loans written off as not being repaid _ to grow over the next year as more customers struggle to pay off debt.

Citigroup reported the loss for the July-September period in regulatory filing late Friday. It said it earned $169 million from selling bonds backed by credit card debt during the third quarter last year, according to the filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Citigroup lost $902 million in its global cards business during the third quarter, compared with earnings of $1.44 billion during the year-ago period as revenue in the division fell 40 percent to $3.79 billion

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...7cf42aa143a.htm

LaoPo

[flying]

Citigroup says it lost $1.44B on credit card bonds

Citigroup says it lost $1.44 billion in 3Q selling bonds backed by credit cards

LaoPo

See this seems insane to me. Who would buy credit card debt? Even with the interest.

Also the banks selling this debt. What is it that the bank would ultimately like for all the inerest they collect on loans & the pitance they give on savings?

It is like they dont want to do any banking at all. Just collect the gravy.

I hope they all crash & burn.

[ace]

you have not seen anything yet, the second wave is coming....................are you ready

soon many will learn a very expensive lesson in futility

It's true, markets will go down. And up. And down....But when and why is what's important, I've seen the doubters out for Roubini already, after all a broken watch is right twice a day.

I guess you're alluding to credit card debt. It's a problem sure enough.

[AlexLah]

In the coming years, will we see things like this:

And this is what you can buy for it.........

A lot of sites say that hyperinflation is a real possebility in the coming years.

What ya all think?

[tijnebijn]

It already is .......

IN Zimbabwe .

[midas]

So now it has started to sound VERY worrying ! I was just listening to a

phone in by the normally optimistic Donald Trump on Fox TV who was saying despite

the 700 billion rescue package -it's not working! Because the banks are

sitting on the money and not lending it. He said deals cannot be done

and are not being done.

He is saying that also this Friday the unemployment statistics in the USA

will send " people's heads spinning " ! He also said it is looking more like

1930 everyday and that it is a very serious situation now.

[Naam]

So now it has started to sound VERY worrying ! I was just listening to a

phone in by the normally optimistic Donald Trump on Fox TV who was saying despite

the 700 billion rescue package -it's not working! Because the banks are

sitting on the money and not lending it. He said deals cannot be done

and are not being done.

He is saying that also this Friday the unemployment statistics in the USA

will send " people's heads spinning " ! He also said it is looking more like

1930 everyday and that it is a very serious situation now.

we don't need Donald Trump to tell us that "two plus two equals four and that roads get wet when it rains"!

[midas]

So now it has started to sound VERY worrying ! I was just listening to a

phone in by the normally optimistic Donald Trump on Fox TV who was saying despite

the 700 billion rescue package -it's not working! Because the banks are

sitting on the money and not lending it. He said deals cannot be done

and are not being done.

He is saying that also this Friday the unemployment statistics in the USA

will send " people's heads spinning " ! He also said it is looking more like

1930 everyday and that it is a very serious situation now.

we don't need Donald Trump to tell us that "two plus two equals four and that roads get wet when it rains"!

Ok Ok Naam I will not take your extreme sarcasm personnally !

It's just such a change to hear people who would normally still try

to put a positive spin on things actually describing how things really

are ! Over the past week I read a number of times the property market

in the U.S. has bottomed. And others assuring us that the

700 billion was starting to trickle through the system .......................

[lannarebirth]

So now it has started to sound VERY worrying ! I was just listening to a

phone in by the normally optimistic Donald Trump on Fox TV who was saying despite

the 700 billion rescue package -it's not working! Because the banks are

sitting on the money and not lending it. He said deals cannot be done

and are not being done.

He is saying that also this Friday the unemployment statistics in the USA

will send " people's heads spinning " ! He also said it is looking more like

1930 everyday and that it is a very serious situation now.

we don't need Donald Trump to tell us that "two plus two equals four and that roads get wet when it rains"!

Ok Ok Naam I will not take your extreme sarcasm personnally !

It's just such a change to hear people who would normally still try

to put a positive spin on things actually describing how things really

are ! Over the past week I read a number of times the property market

in the U.S. has bottomed. And others assuring us that the

700 billion was starting to trickle through the system .......................

Donald Trump is a flim flam artist. His history is that he hypes himself to suck in OP'sM and then declares bankruptcy. That's his business model. Whatever he has to say, it will either be blatantly obvious, or the reverse is true. He is not a man of great insight.

It's true banks aren't lending money. What they're doing is trying to figure out how they can use that mney to benefit themselves, either through executive compensation schemes or acquisitions. Neither of these things being the intent of the cash infusions. Seems to be very little oversight .

[LaoPo]

So now it has started to sound VERY worrying ! I was just listening to a

phone in by the normally optimistic Donald Trump on Fox TV who was saying despite

the 700 billion rescue package -it's not working! Because the banks are

sitting on the money and not lending it. He said deals cannot be done

and are not being done.

He is saying that also this Friday the unemployment statistics in the USA

will send " people's heads spinning " ! He also said it is looking more like

1930 everyday and that it is a very serious situation now.

we don't need Donald Trump to tell us that "two plus two equals four and that roads get wet when it rains"!

Ok Ok Naam I will not take your extreme sarcasm personnally !

It's just such a change to hear people who would normally still try

to put a positive spin on things actually describing how things really

are ! Over the past week I read a number of times the property market

in the U.S. has bottomed. And others assuring us that the

700 billion was starting to trickle through the system .......................

Donald Trump is a flim flam artist. His history is that he hypes himself to suck in OP'sM and then declares bankruptcy. That's his business model. Whatever he has to say, it will either be blatantly obvious, or the reverse is true. He is not a man of great insight.

It's true banks aren't lending money. What they're doing is trying to figure out how they can use that mney to benefit themselves, either through executive compensation schemes or acquisitions. Neither of these things being the intent of the cash infusions. Seems to be very little oversight .

I agree. The banks are sitting on the money they received and help boost their balance sheets but not their clients who are in dire need of cash.

So....the $ 700 Billion bail out plan failed so far and it seems there are enormous holes/gaps in the rescue-net, Paulson cs didn't anticipate upon and that's a bluddy shame for the so called financial specialists who 'invented' the rescue operation...

It's unbelievable the government didn't step in already and threaten them to withdraw the money again

As for the bottom in the US property market: I hope so but doubt it very much as there are some nasty bankruptcies around the corner. The big 3 in Detroit are in heavy weather and it's even rumored that all three will fall over.

I don't think that will happen but the three need to be restructured and it will cost hundreds of thousands of jobs if not millions (supplying industries as well).

That will affect the real estate market as well.

LaoPo

[NovaBlue05]

We design public works projects using federal money and at the end of the FFY year , we are told to "use it or lose it" (ie: it will be re-distributed to states that will use it). Shouldn't they be telling the banks the same?

[stumonster]

we don't need Donald Trump to tell us that "two plus two equals four and that roads get wet when it rains"!

people still have confidence in the USD - so maybe they do

[Naam]

So now it has started to sound VERY worrying ! I was just listening to a

phone in by the normally optimistic Donald Trump on Fox TV who was saying despite

the 700 billion rescue package -it's not working! Because the banks are

sitting on the money and not lending it. He said deals cannot be done

and are not being done.

He is saying that also this Friday the unemployment statistics in the USA

will send " people's heads spinning " ! He also said it is looking more like

1930 everyday and that it is a very serious situation now.

we don't need Donald Trump to tell us that "two plus two equals four and that roads get wet when it rains"!

Ok Ok Naam I will not take your extreme sarcasm personnally !

It's just such a change to hear people who would normally still try

to put a positive spin on things actually describing how things really

are ! Over the past week I read a number of times the property market

in the U.S. has bottomed. And others assuring us that the

700 billion was starting to trickle through the system .......................

my sarcasm was not aimed at you Midas but at the clown Trump. some people might think he is "somebody". for me he is nothing but (as mentioned) a big mouthed clown who once inherited 650 million dollars, went inspite of this fact nearly bankrupt but found later enough idiots to finance his ventures.

as far as the U.S. property market is concerned the effect on global economies is equivalent to the blowjob a katoey administers to an unsuspecting tourist at 02.45 hours behind some trees of Pattaya Beach Road

[LaoPo]

we don't need Donald Trump to tell us that "two plus two equals four and that roads get wet when it rains"!

people still have confidence in the USD - so maybe they do

Sorry: wrong !

It's not the people having confidence in the USD; it's a ''forced upon' world wide situation now whereby government bodies/hedge funds/banks/insurers etc. etc. are forced to sell ANYTHING they possess and go into the dollar (to pay their debts because of the giant losses they're suffering) and thus creating enormous demand, creating shortage and thus expensive USD.

It's not that people have so much confidence in the Greenback; far from that since the US is in fact bankrupt.

It spends more then it earns and that's -in the end- BAD for the wallet and thus the USD

LaoPo

[midas]

I agree. The banks are sitting on the money they received and help boost their balance sheets but not their clients who are in dire need of cash.

So....the $ 700 Billion bail out plan failed so far and it seems there are enormous holes/gaps in the rescue-net, Paulson cs didn't anticipate upon and that's a bluddy shame for the so called financial specialists who 'invented' the rescue operation...

It's unbelievable the government didn't step in already and threaten them to withdraw the money again

As for the bottom in the US property market: I hope so but doubt it very much as there are some nasty bankruptcies around the corner. The big 3 in Detroit are in heavy weather and it's even rumored that all three will fall over.

I don't think that will happen but the three need to be restructured and it will cost hundreds of thousands of jobs if not millions (supplying industries as well).

That will affect the real estate market as well.

LaoPo

So what do you think is the next chapter in this story? It seems to me there is a problem firstly with the

vacuum that will occur between now and when the new President takes office? Decisions need to be made

now.After that if he starts to invoke massive spending on infrastructure projects as a Keynesian attempt to kick start things again

-how effective is that likely to be ?

[Bizz]

BOE RATES DOWN 1.5%

ECB RATES DOWN .50

Bank of England in dramatic move cuts benchmark interest rate 1.5% to 3%

[midas]

As for the bottom in the US property market: I hope so but doubt it very much as there are some nasty bankruptcies around the corner. The big 3 in Detroit are in heavy weather and it's even rumored that all three will fall over.

I don't think that will happen but the three need to be restructured and it will cost hundreds of thousands of jobs if not millions (supplying industries as well).

That will affect the real estate market as well.

LaoPo

You were right LaoPo it was just announced that the 3 main U.S. car makers

are today asking the government for another $25 Billion to keep them in business on top of

the $25 Billion that has already been promised to them......................................

isn't it like flogging a dead horse because they just don't seem to be making the right product anyway?

But the closure would lead to 100,000 jobs being lost

[Felt 35]

Asia Can Escape Global Crisis, Morgan Stanley Says (Update1)

By Chan Tien Hin

Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Asian stock markets and economies can escape the worst of the global downturn, with China, Hong Kong and Taiwan best placed to ride through the turbulence, Morgan Stanley said.

Equity strategists at the brokerage added to their ``overweight'' position in Taiwan in their model portfolio of stocks and raised South Korea to ``equal-weight'' from ``underweight,'' a report today said. Malaysia was cut to ``underweight'' from ``overweight.''

``Asia's fundamentals are far stronger,'' analysts Malcolm Wood, Ryan Tsai and Corey Ng wrote. ``A combination of easier monetary and fiscal policy and lower commodity prices should enable Asia to avoid the worst of the global downturn.''

China and Japan have slashed borrowing costs in the past two weeks to ease the economic fallout from the global credit crunch that is pushing some countries into a recession. The turmoil, which caused the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., has frozen credit markets and triggered a worldwide rout for equities, wiping out more than $25 trillion of market value this year.

``If the worst of the global liquidity crisis is behind us, macro strength is probably going to become a key market driver,'' the report said. ``This should favor Greater China. A key difference between Asia today and in 1997-98 is the emergence of China as a key driver of growth.''

Cutting Rates

China's growth will slow to 9.3 percent in 2009, from 9.7 percent this year, the World Bank last month, predicting that the country is well positioned to withstand financial market turmoil. The central bank cut interest rates for the first time in six years on Sept. 15, following up with two more reductions since. On Oct. 29, the key one-year lending rate was cut to 6.66 percent from 6.93 percent.

China is the ``strongest'' to cope with the global slowdown while Australia, Malaysia and India ``face challenges,'' Morgan Stanley said.

Malaysia's ``external macro exposure and limited policy flexibility'' makes it vulnerable to the global slowdown, the note said. South Korea's upgrade comes as Morgan Stanley added Samsung Electronics Co. to its portfolio, saying Asia's biggest maker of chips and handsets is ``best positioned'' to ``enjoy earnings growth into 2010.''

On Oct. 7, the International Monetary Fund said the world economy would expand by 3 percent in 2009, paring the 3.9 percent forecast made in July. Emerging markets will account for 100 percent of the global economic growth next year, mainly Brazil, Russia, India, China and other Asian economies including South Korea, the IMF said yesterday.

[bingobongo]

uh oh, here it comes, looks like we may have a death cross, IF the blue line crosses below the red line and STAYS (when the short term MA moves below the longer term MA), you were warned, even greater pain is coming and yes that includes LOS..............you were warned...........again

don't hate me because some of you have emotional attachment to your depreciating stocks, hate yourself for not selling/going short

Edited November 6, 2008 by bingobongo

[LaoPo]

I agree. The banks are sitting on the money they received and help boost their balance sheets but not their clients who are in dire need of cash.

So....the $ 700 Billion bail out plan failed so far and it seems there are enormous holes/gaps in the rescue-net, Paulson cs didn't anticipate upon and that's a bluddy shame for the so called financial specialists who 'invented' the rescue operation...

It's unbelievable the government didn't step in already and threaten them to withdraw the money again

As for the bottom in the US property market: I hope so but doubt it very much as there are some nasty bankruptcies around the corner. The big 3 in Detroit are in heavy weather and it's even rumored that all three will fall over.

I don't think that will happen but the three need to be restructured and it will cost hundreds of thousands of jobs if not millions (supplying industries as well).

That will affect the real estate market as well.

LaoPo

So what do you think is the next chapter in this story? It seems to me there is a problem firstly with the

vacuum that will occur between now and when the new President takes office? Decisions need to be made

now.After that if he starts to invoke massive spending on infrastructure projects as a Keynesian attempt to kick start things again

-how effective is that likely to be ?

Ouch... you're asking me a very difficult question which I'm not able to answer without speculating.

I think we have to divide the present global crisis into 2 main groups:

1. The financial crisis which had it's origin in the US and spread out throughout most countries (but not all) of the world.

We watched all the bail outs and supports by all of the governments but so far there is not much of a progress to be noticed as far as I can see since the banks who were rescued are sitting on the rescue money and the much needed credit by private- and company clients is almost impossible to get. The banks are stricter than ever and every single bankwoman/man is afraid to lose his/her job and sits back, instructed by their bosses, who, in turn are also scared to death to lose their job.

It's a dangerous circle,

and thus leading to the:

2. Real Economy Crisis where small time business owners as well as the middle to large companies are in desperate need of credit from the banks. But the banks either don't have that money or sitting on it.

The Central Banks are trying to do their utmost and lowering the rates like today's cut of 0.5% from the EU Central Bank and a staggering 1.5% by the BoE, down to 3% but I'm afraid this won't be enough to save a declining UK economy which is in a bad shape, worse than the EU as a whole I think.

Nr. 1 and 2 combined is a death trap.

One example is a friend who bought (and paid for) 2 enormous office towers in Hannover/Germany with his own money. He made plans and rented the towers out (on refurbishing plans) to the regional court system (5 different courts -Gerichte-) with a contract for 10 years - fully guaranteed by the government - !

Although he has an extraordinary track record in real estate and development he is, so far, unable to find the appropriate finance for the refurbishing/reconstruction of the dated buildings; a few Million €.

Simply because the banks are scared to death to supply the credit.

Back to Obama:

Yes, he's facing a vacuum and he is not to be envied but I don't think he will start with massive spending on mega projects to boost the economy. He has to find a way to cut in spendings and slowly but surely cut into the giant defense spendings (read: wars) and start lowering the deficits.

But the hope and positivity Obama created all around the world could help him a lot and one of his main enormous abilities is that he's able to build bridges between Democrats and Republicans.

I think he will surprise us all with the appointment of many new but also old faces from both sides; that's his strength.

I also think he is one tough cookie to crack and that he will be a lot tougher than he showed us so far; the Democratic majority he has now to back him in Senate and House of Representatives will give him the speed, necessary to change things.

But, it will be tough, very tough !

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

I think some of you would like to read and study this a bit more closely:

"Total Bank Loans and Leases Reach New Record"

....$7.258 trillion by the first week of October; total Bank loans and leases from the FED.

According to banking data * from the Federal Reserve that was updated today, Total Loans and Leases of Commercial Banks in the U.S. continue to grow, and have doubled from $3.5 trillion in 1999 to $7 trillion in 2008. On a monthly basis, Total Bank Loans and Leases exceeded $7 trillion for the first time in September 2008 **, and reached $7.258 trillion by the first week of October ***. (up to Oct 22)

We keep hearing news reports that describe U.S. credit markets as being "tight," "frozen," "seized-up," "ultra-tight," "drum tight," etc. Why isn't that much-publicized credit tightness showing up in commercial bank loan data, which keeps setting record highs, and is now more than $7 trillion?

* http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/categories/100

** http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/LOANS.txt

*** http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/TOTBKCR.txt >> Bank Credit of All Commercial Banks

Note: all info from Professor Mark J. Perry's Blog for Economics and Finance.

BUT:

It's even worse than above:

...more than USD 10 Trillion in total Bank Credit of all Commercial Banks January 2000 to Oct. 22, 2008

According to the most recent weekly banking data * from the Federal Reserve, the Total Bank Credit of All Commercial Banks exceeded $10 trillion for the first time during the week of October 22 (see chart above, click to enlarge). Compared to mid-October 2007, total bank credit in October 2008 increased by almost 11%, and is almost $1 trillion higher ($977 billion). Compared to mid-2000, total bank credit has doubled from $5 trillion to $10 trillion.

* http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/TOTBKCR.txt

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/

Conclusion:

Where is the USD 10 Trillion if the money/credit is so tight ?

LaoPo

[midas]

We watched all the bail outs and supports by all of the governments but so far there is not much of a progress to be noticed as far as I can see since the banks who were rescued are sitting on the rescue money and the much needed credit by private- and company clients is almost impossible to get. The banks are stricter than ever and every single bankwoman/man is afraid to lose his/her job and sits back, instructed by their bosses, who, in turn are also scared to death to lose their job.

................. business owners as well as the middle to large companies are in desperate need of credit from the banks. But the banks either don't have that money or sitting on it.

LaoPo

While this may seem simplistic, as we see central banks aggressively slashing interest rates

and we know from past history that this didn't have much effect in Japan in 1990's it seems we are hurtling

towards deflation ? Isn't it part of the problem that if they

lend out money now that we're in this vicious spiral it will end up on assets that one year from now

could be much lower in value? What incentive is there for any banker to do that ?

So I cannot see how we can get out of this?

Edited November 7, 2008 by midas