Proposed Constitution Clears Referendum With Comfortable Margin

[george]

Proposed Constitution clears referendum with comfortable margin

BANGKOK: -- Official results of Sunday's public referendum on Thailand's newly drafted constitution were scheduled to be forwarded to the Constitution Drafting Committee by 6.30 pm Monday, Somchai Juengprasert, a member of the polling agency said.

The results of the polls are scheduled for ratification by the Constitution Drafting Committee at a later date. Most of the votes for the new constitution came from the central and southern regions as well as the capital, while most of the votes against the charter came from the northern and northeastern regions.

About 480,000 ballots were declared invalid, including those on which neither choice was made.

Meanwhile, the Election Commission will forward charges involving Sunday's electoral wrongdoings to the police for questioning and criminal proceedings will be filed against those found to have committed them, Mr. Somchai said.

According to the polling agency, illegal activities were carried out in apparent bid to woo people either to vote for or against the charter, including 42 cases of handing out cash, 24 cases of handing out fliers, 20 cases of handing out items, four cases of providing tour programmes, 35 cases of making public speeches, two cases of throwing banquets, one case of casting a non-eligible vote, one case of transporting voters to a polling unit and five cases of destroying ballots.

Of the five voters who tore up their ballots, only one, a resident of Samut Prakan, said he did so because he was disgruntled with the Council for National Security which ousted former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in last year's military coup, whereas the others, all being residents in the provinces, said they did not mean to break the electoral rules by so doing. One admitted to being drunk at the time when he was ripping his ballot.

-- TNA 2007-08-20

[george]

Vote for new Constitution 'auspicious' for democracy in Thailand

BANGKOK: -- Council for National Security (CNS) chairman Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratkalin said Sunday's referendum which demonstrated support for the newly-drafted constitution auspiciously welcomed Thailand back to democratic rule.

Speaking on a telephone call from Malaysia to Modernine TV (TV channel 9) which broadcast the results of Sunday's polls, the CNS chief said the people had studied and comprehended enough about the new charter that they would not be easily misled or thought-controlled by anyone else when they cast their votes Sunday. That polling which had endorsed the new charter would certainly be followed by democratic rule in due course, according to the CNS chief.

Since last year's military coup which ousted former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Gen. Sonthi said the military had not done anything for personal or partisan interests and only done things to maintain peace and national interests.

The CNS chief sidestepped questions as to whether or not martial law, which might support or thwart one or another candidate's election campaign, should be lifted. He only said the public in a particular part of the country may feel safer under martial law than otherwise.

Neither did the CNS chief confirm or deny whether he himself will jump onto the political bandwagon and contest the upcoming general election. He said only time will tell and he might as well turn to rest after all has been carried out well.

--TNA 2007-08-20

[Jai Dee]

EC: Referendum results this evening

The Election Commission (EC) is set to forward the official results of the national referendum to the Constitution Drafting Committee at 5pm.

EC member Sodsri Sattayatham said early results showed 65.72 percent of Bangkokians approved of the draft charter, 66.8 percent of voters from the central region voted “yes”, 33.14 percent voted “no"

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[george]

At least 14.147 million voters support draft charter: unofficial count by police

An unofficial count of the Royal Thai Police showed that 14.147 million voters voted for the draft constitution while 10.143 million others voted against it.

The Royal Thai Police reported that 95.07 per cent of its unofficial counted at 10:15 pm showed that the draft was supported by 58. 24 per cent voters and rejected by 41.76 per cent.

-- The Nation 2007-08-20

[Jai Dee]

Gen. Sonthi welcomes voters' decision

Council for National Security chairman Sonthi Boonyaratkalin welcomed the majority of voters’ decision to accept the military-backed draft charter in Sunday’s national referendum.

He praised voters for being able to make their own political decision and not allowing their votes to be influenced.

“Most of them knew what they wanted. That can be considered as a new chapter for our democratic country,” he said.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[george]

'Yes' vote paves way for poll

Poll officials report a medium turnout of voters

BANGKOK: -- The draft charter sailed through the national referendum by a margin of about three votes to two - not good enough to reconcile a divided nation but a sufficient mandate to pave the way for a general election in December.

The Election Commission estimated voter turnout of 25 million, or 56.8 per cent of all 44.2 million eligible voters.

The EC's preliminary results from 95 per cent of the poll stations in the country's first-ever national referendum showed that 56.7 per cent of Thais (about 14.3 million voters) voted to support the new constitution, compared to 41.4 per cent (10.2 million voters) who voted against it. There were about 1.9 per cent of spoiled ballots.

But the Northeast region showed it still belonged to the defunct Thai Rak Thai Party's base by a wide margin, with "no" votes of 63 per cent and "yes" votes of only 36 per cent.

The Election Commission announced that it would not officially declare the outcome of the referendum until today because it needed more time to count all the votes.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont confirmed yesterday the general election would take place before the end of the year following His Majesty the King's 80th birthday on December 5.

"A definite election date will be announced after a royal command for the promulgation of the new constitution and the completion of the legislative process for organic laws relating to elections," he said.

He hinted at a tentative date of either December 16 or December 23 - both Sundays.

His comments came after three exit polls showed the referendum had passed.

Charter writers have completed writing draft organic legislation. The law required them to do so within 45 days of the July completion of the constitution. The National Legislative Assembly now has 30 days to deliberate on those laws.

Surayud called on political rivals to accept the referendum, saying the majority had spoken - although minority voices would be respected, too.

He ruled out the possibility of the military continuing to engage in politics following the election.

"I don't think anyone can execute a plan for power succession because the people won't allow it," he said in answer to a question about junta chief General Sonthi Boonyaratglin's political aspirations.

The vote to approve the charter means the people decided to advance democratic rule through elections. It cannot be construed as an endorsement of military involvement in politics, he said.

"My government will not form a political party nor contest the elections; the future is up to political parties," he said.

"I believe the people cast referendum votes because they want to overcome the political crisis."

Council for National Security chief Sonthi yesterday blamed poor public relations for the small margin of victory in the eyes of the voters.

Interviewed over the phone from Malaysia, Sonthi said the public did not get the message from the government campaign on the constitution draft.

"The campaign also did not reach out to them effectively,'' he said.

Asked if he believed the result of the referendum showed that Thai Rak Thai's political bases in the North and Northeast regions were still strong, Sonthi said political parties in the rival camp to Thai Rak Thai would face a tough fight in the election.

"What happened [yesterday] is a lesson on how to solve the country's future problems. It is good since we can see through things,'' he said.

Asked if the referendum result would affect his decision to enter politics, Sonthi said no. "Whatever I do, I do it for the sake of the country and peace."

He said after he retired he would continue to be CNS chief until the government ends its term. He will answer whether he will enter politics on September 30.

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva called for a fresh start in Thai politics. He asked all groups in the ongoing political conflict to bury their past and start anew.

Abhisit said referendum day should be used as Day 1 for Thailand to move forward.

"I would like the conflicts to become a thing of the past and I don't want our country to further lose its chance to move on," Abhisit said.

The Thai Rak Thai group's leading members held a press conference to announce their acceptance of the results of the referendum and will push for amendments to improve the next constitution.

Chaturon Chaisang said the group would accept the results of the referendum, although they saw that it was not organised in line with democratic principles.

"We will try to help maintain reconciliation in society and will not push for a new referendum," Chaturon said.

"And in the future we will propose amendments to make the charter more democratic."

Advocates of the "Vote No" campaign last night closely monitored the results and were satisfaction at the high percentage of voters rejecting the draft.

"It's a wonderful surprise that the 'no' vote count is as high as 40 per cent," said Asst Prof Somchai Preechasilpakul, dean of Chiang Mai University's Faculty of Law and a prominent anti-charter campaigner.

"Such a close margin between the 'yes' and 'no' votes makes us wonder what the result would be if the plebiscite were held under a democratic atmosphere and a more trustworthy Election Commission."

The Stock Exchange of Thailand's index is set to surge today with the passage of the charter as investors will be buoyed by the prospects of Thailand returning to democratic rule and Friday's move of the US Federal Reserve to cut the discount rate to shore up financial markets.

Maris Tarab, chairman of the Association of Investment Management Companies, said the result should boost market sentiment today. He made his comment at 6pm when the preliminary vote count showed 2.242 million people had accepted the draft charter, as against 1.532 million opposed.

Maris said: "The Thai market should rise for two reasons. First, of course, the referendum result shows that the political situation should become more stable as the general election is expected soon. Secondly, the market should get the benefits from the surge in the US markets on Friday."

--The Nation 2007-08-20

[Mid]

Editorial:

A small step to bridge a big gap?

Published on August 20, 2007

Referendum result shows the political divide remains, but there's faint light at the end of the tunnel

The outcome of the referendum did not put an end to the polarisation of Thai politics, which is split between the urban middle class and the rural poor.

Although the majority of people in this country voted for the promulgation of the constitution drawn up by the military-appointed Constitution Drafting Assembly and passed by the National Legislative Assembly, it will take time to achieve normalisation of the political process.

The yes vote represents relatively more politically aware, economically better off people who want to see a smooth transition from the current military rule to democracy.

They have no problem with the fact that the drafting process was initiated by the Council for National Security, which came to power after a military coup that toppled the democratically elected but corruption-prone Thaksin government.

Many see the overthrow of the previous government as a necessary evil.

snip

comfortable ....??

[george]

New Charter : Yes: 56.7% No: 41.4%

Invalid: 1.9% as of 10.30pm

Source: The Nation 2007-08-20

[Mid]

New Charter : Yes: 56.7% No: 41.4%

Invalid: 1.9% as of 10.30pm

Source: The Nation 2007-08-20

any figures on the number of votes v's total eligible ??

[KireB]

This is certainly a surprise, because most Thais I talked to were against the new constitution.

Curious what other posters think about the poll.

[george]

Thais approve charter, despite hefty 'No'

* 98% of referendum votes counted on Monday: 57% "Yes;" 41% "No"

* Roughly 25 million of the 45 million electorate voted, a 56% turnout

* Thai PM Surayud Chulanont says elections will be held at end of the year

BANGKOK, Thailand (Reuters) -- Thailand's voters have approved an army-drafted constitution, but a hefty "No" vote suggests December's general election will be messy, with ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra still a potent political force.

Thai soldiers help election officers carry ballot boxes after polls closed on Sunday in Pattani Province.

With 98 percent of votes counted on Monday in Thailand's first referendum, the Election Commission said about 57 percent of people had accepted the charter, designed to prevent a repeat of Thaksin's powerful single-party style of government.

However, 41 percent rejected it, sending a signal to the generals who removed the telecoms billionaire in a coup last September that they will struggle to control the make-up of the next administration.

Roughly 25 million of the 45 million electorate cast their ballots, a 56 percent turnout.

Having pressed for a "Yes" vote, the army-appointed post-coup government had been hoping for at least a 60 percent turnout for what will be the 18th charter in 75 years of on-off democracy.

After early exit polls indicated overall approval -- a result that was never really in question -- Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said elections would "definitely be held at the end of the year." December 16 or December 23 are the most likely dates.

Thaksin, 58, has been in exile in Britain since the coup and spent Sunday afternoon watching his newly acquired soccer club, Manchester City, beat Manchester United 1-0 in a match that generated as much interest back home as the referendum.

Many Thais, especially those in Bangkok, appeared motivated to vote by a desire to see an end to the turmoil that has reigned since Thaksin's family sold control of the telecoms empire he founded to Singapore for a tax-free $1.9 billion in January 2006.

Analysts said investors would also be relieved there had been no major upset, although the smaller-than-expected margin of victory for the "Yes" camp suggested the election would be closely fought, messy -- and dirty.

"This is telling the junta that they are going to have trouble at an election and that could mean all kinds of attempts to influence the result -- and that's worrying," Bangkok-based political analyst Chris Baker said.

Even though Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais) party has been disbanded and 111 top members barred from politics, its leaders hope the mass rural support that twice swept it to power will rally to a new party under a new flag.

Voter breakdowns showed a 62 percent "No" in the Thaksin heartlands of the northeast, suggesting the army's campaign to discredit him and his dissolved party has failed.

Analysts say the charter is designed to restore rule by the elites challenged by Thaksin, son of an ethnic Chinese silk merchant, and rekindle the "managed democracy" of the 1980s under ex-army chief Prem Tinsulanonda. He is now the King's top adviser and seen by the Thaksin camp as the coup mastermind.

Human-rights groups have criticized the poll as a sham, given that nearly half of Thailand's 76 provinces remain under martial law and that a "No" vote would have allowed the army to impose any one of the previous 17 constitutions.

A full official result was expected later on Monday.

--CNN 2007-08-20

[John K]

Mid and Hammered , in response from the previous thread on Sonthi’s replacement;

Yes all are on the table, but until it is done it is a lets wait and see. Each one of them has a different approach and when you are in business big money rides on knowing the road ahead. I see a lot of top business executives for stress management, and this seems to be a reoccurring theme at the moment.

Waiting for the elections won’t be too bad because they can see who is running and get a rough idea of how things will go based on the track records of the people running. Meaning there could be some turning before the elections.

Also little signs of encouragement like reading today, “The Finance Ministry plans to ask the central bank today to abandon its unpopular capital-control measures and instead adopt an exchange-rate target for the baht that mirrors regional currencies.” from the nation.

The only remaining wild card is how much more damage the TRT will continue to do.

[highdiver]

Mid and Hammered , in response from the previous thread on Sonthi’s replacement;

Yes all are on the table, but until it is done it is a lets wait and see. Each one of them has a different approach and when you are in business big money rides on knowing the road ahead. I see a lot of top business executives for stress management, and this seems to be a reoccurring theme at the moment.

Waiting for the elections won’t be too bad because they can see who is running and get a rough idea of how things will go based on the track records of the people running. Meaning there could be some turning before the elections.

Also little signs of encouragement like reading today, “The Finance Ministry plans to ask the central bank today to abandon its unpopular capital-control measures and instead adopt an exchange-rate target for the baht that mirrors regional currencies.” from the nation.

The only remaining wild card is how much more damage the TRT will continue to do.

very good post...

[Mid]

The only remaining wild card is how much more damage the TRT will continue to do.

not the only , but one of ...................

.......... ......... ............

Thais approve charter, despite hefty 'No'

thank-you

[wrecker]

What you call a comfortable margin 14 million out of a total of 45 million votes.

But there is hope for u all, we can always move to the North East where people seem to have a brain.

As more than half the population is registered there and the charter was rejected with a great majority and as we know that voters were removed from the voterslist in the North and 20% of ballots were not delivered there, I would not be really happy when I was a coup taker. On the other hand, Sothi made it clear that he dos not rule out a future coup. The elite lacks manners that is clear.

From the 56% that voted in favor of the constitution over half probably did so because thy were simply tired of the junta crooks and wanted fresh elections. As constitutions com in Thailand without a bill of rights, and are changed as frequently as a baby changes diapers, they must have thought that Samak and not abhisit will become the new Prime minister anyhow and will reinstall the real constitution.

Spin doctors will claim victory, the Thai press is intellectually lazy and thus will simply restate what officials tell them to state. There is so much hope for Thailand with sensible people in Izan who make up the majority of the population.

It is one , two , three........ and prem is down

[mitrapaap]

This is certainly a surprise, because most Thais I talked to were against the new constitution.

Curious what other posters think about the poll.

All Thais I talked to were for it.

[pjallittle]

This is certainly a surprise, because most Thais I talked to were against the new constitution.

Curious what other posters think about the poll.

Here is how the story played out in the USA's Wall Street Journal

Thai Constitution Passes,

But Thaksin May Still Be Force

A WSJ NEWS ROUNDUP

August 20, 2007

BANGKOK -- Thai voters approved a new military-drafted constitution yesterday, paving the way to elections in December, but a large number of "no" votes suggested that former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra remains a political force.

A tally, with 95% of the votes counted in a nationwide referendum, showed 58.24% accepting the charter, designed to prevent a repeat of Mr. Thaksin's powerful single-party style of government.

However, 41.76% rejected it, sending a signal to the military generals who removed Mr. Thaksin in a coup last September that they will struggle to control the makeup of the next administration.

The election commission Web site said turnout was 56.63% among roughly 45 million eligible voters.

A full official result is expected today.

Having pushed for a "yes" vote, the army-appointed post-coup government had been hoping for at least a 60% turnout for what will be Thailand's 18th constitution in 75 years.

After early exit polls indicated overall approval of the charter -- approval of the charter had been widely expected -- Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said elections would "definitely be held at the end of the year." Dec. 16 or Dec. 23 are the most likely election dates.

Chaturon Chaisaeng, a top member of Mr. Thaksin's now defunct Thai Rak Thai Party, said the former prime minister's loyalists accepted the referendum's results even though they had campaigned strongly against it and considered it unfair. Mr. Thaksin's party was ordered dissolved by the courts in May for electoral fraud last year.

The 186-page charter curbs the role of politicians, emphasizes checks and balances at the expense of participatory democracy, and could perpetuate the behind-the-scenes power the military has wielded in Thailand for decades.

Defenders of the proposed charter concede it is imperfect, but argue it is the best way out of the political stalemate that led the military to seize power last Sept. 19 amid growing unrest over alleged corruption and abuse of power by Mr. Thaksin, now living in self-exile in Britain. Mr. Thaksin has denied accusations of wrongdoing.

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, Thailand's likely next prime minister, speaking to the TITV television network, said that politicians should join hands after the election to amend the constitution because the results showed that there were a substantial number of people who voted against it.

Analysts said investors would be relieved there had been no major upset in the referendum.

"This is telling the junta that they are going to have trouble at an election and that could mean all kinds of attempts to influence the result -- and that's worrying," Bangkok-based political analyst Chris Baker said.

The new charter would serve as a replacement for a 1997 one popularly dubbed "the people's constitution" for the extensive public consultation and debate leading to its adoption.

That version attempted to bring democratic overhauls to a system that left political parties beholden to local power brokers with little or no ideological allegiances, a system that led to unstable, short-lived coalition governments.

The new one would turn the Senate back into a partly appointed body -- the 1997 constitution made it a 100% elective office -- change electoral procedures in a manner that weakens political parties, and shift several responsibilities, such as appointments to independent government commissions, to the judiciary from the executive branch.

[Jai Dee]

Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives says referendum to lead to democratically elected government

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives, Mr. Rungruang Isarangkura Na Ayutthaya (รุ่งเรือง อิศรางกูร ณ อยุธยา), says the outcome of the 2007 constitution referendum will lead to a democratically elected government.

Mr. Rungruang says the national referendum is a political evolution of Thailand and it is the country’s important and historical event, adding that Thai people have become more politically active. He says a democratically elected government will emerge as a consequence.

However, Mr. Rungruang is asking people not to look at the referendum as a winning or losing outcome, but he would like them to see it as a process for national development.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 August 2007

[Jai Dee]

Royal Thai Police report 24 infringement of public referendum laws from August 5-19

The Royal Thai Police revealed that from August 5-19 twenty four incidents of infringement of public referendum laws have been reported.

The Deputy Royal Thai Police Commissioner General Pol.Gen. Wichean Potchposri (วิเชียร พจน์โพธิ์ศรี ) reports that 7 cases of infringement of public referendum laws have been reported from 8:00-16:00 on August 19th. Of these 7 cases, 4 cases involved destruction of voting ballots, in the muang district of Ayutthaya province, in Wiset Chai Chan (วิเศษชัยชาญ ) district of Ang Thong province, in Lam Plai Mat (ลำปลายมาศ) district of Buriram province, and in Mueang Suang (เมืองสรวง) district of Roi Et province. Authorities were able to arrest public referendum offenders in all incidents.

Pol.Gen. Wichean added that from August 5-19 a total of 24 inidents of public referendum law infringements occurred with 10 suspects detained for questioning. Only one minor disruption of the public referendum voting process occurred in Narathiwat province, when a bomb exploded near a voting station.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 August 2007

[mitrapaap]

I'm really getting pissed of human rights groups. They don't anything other than critisize whatever is done.

If an army steps up against a questionable government and makes sure that peace is kept for a while, then that is not acceptable for them. If the same army leads the people to the first public vote in history of accepting or rejecting a constitution then that's again not okay for them, because the army did it. My goodness, when do they start looking at WHAT is done rather than WHO does it. Where is it written that people in uniforms do everything wrong, while people in business suits are always right?

[SARDINES]

From the 56% that voted in favor of the constitution over half probably did so because thy were simply tired of the junta crooks and wanted fresh elections.

Actually, there was an ABAC poll in the Thai media TITV showing that only about 15% of those voted in favor really did agree with the contents of the 2007 const. The rest did not have much idea of the contents of the const. but only voted in favor because, as you said, sick of the junta and everything and just wanted to get on with elections in the belief that the next government can amend what needs to be fixed (yeah, good luck!)

On the contrary, of the "no" voters, it was a mix of both "saying no to the junta" and with a lot of folks who read the draft and not agreed.

I voted "no" but already believed that it would pass and only hoped that it would be by a much slimmer margin to send a message to the current government that there is a very large population out there who do not appreciate what they have done.

rgds / sardines

[stevemiddie]

I'm really getting pissed of human rights groups. They don't anything other than critisize whatever is done.

If an army steps up against a questionable government and makes sure that peace is kept for a while, then that is not acceptable for them. If the same army leads the people to the first public vote in history of accepting or rejecting a constitution then that's again not okay for them, because the army did it. My goodness, when do they start looking at WHAT is done rather than WHO does it. Where is it written that people in uniforms do everything wrong, while people in business suits are always right?

I understand that within all of this is the power of search, arrest and detention without trial ( by the Army )?.

[roietjimmy]

New Charter : Yes: 56.7% No: 41.4%

Invalid: 1.9% as of 10.30pm

Source: The Nation 2007-08-20

any figures on the number of votes v's total eligible ??

I put this together from the "unoffical numbers" as reported by The Nation. Might be helpful. If you look at it, I sure would not call it a comfortable win given the number of eligible voters that did not vote. In particular, over 7.5M did not vote from Isaan.

Vote_1.xls

[SARDINES]

I'm really getting pissed of human rights groups. They don't anything other than critisize whatever is done.

If an army steps up against a questionable government and makes sure that peace is kept for a while, then that is not acceptable for them. If the same army leads the people to the first public vote in history of accepting or rejecting a constitution then that's again not okay for them, because the army did it. My goodness, when do they start looking at WHAT is done rather than WHO does it. Where is it written that people in uniforms do everything wrong, while people in business suits are always right?

Mitrapaap,

The simple truth is that the military have NO business meddling in the public affairs. Their job is to secure and defend which a clear mandate on what they are suppose to secure and defend against. They've move past their correct duties. A company's security guard doesn't go into management and kicks out he CEO and runs the company himself.

The Thai military's problem is that they believe "whatever they think is right or good for the people" is the only right thing. I have no problem with having this train of thought, but the difference is when "thinking / feeling" about it vs. acting on it by coming in, taking over because their belief that the people can't think on their own and MUST HAVE their so called "wise judgement" to tell them what to do.

rgds / sardines

[LaoPo]

Elections are just 4 months away...

It will be a bumpy road to December 16 with a lot of unrest.

BTW: December 16th = the start of the High Season for Thailand, more or less.

LaoPo

[hammered]

What you call a comfortable margin 14 million out of a total of 45 million votes.

But there is hope for u all, we can always move to the North East where people seem to have a brain.

As more than half the population is registered there and the charter was rejected with a great majority and as we know that voters were removed from the voterslist in the North and 20% of ballots were not delivered there, I would not be really happy when I was a coup taker. On the other hand, Sothi made it clear that he dos not rule out a future coup. The elite lacks manners that is clear.

From the 56% that voted in favor of the constitution over half probably did so because thy were simply tired of the junta crooks and wanted fresh elections. As constitutions com in Thailand without a bill of rights, and are changed as frequently as a baby changes diapers, they must have thought that Samak and not abhisit will become the new Prime minister anyhow and will reinstall the real constitution.

Spin doctors will claim victory, the Thai press is intellectually lazy and thus will simply restate what officials tell them to state. There is so much hope for Thailand with sensible people in Izan who make up the majority of the population.

It is one , two , three........ and prem is down

There are a number of factual errors in what you write which totally undermines what you are saying. I will leave it to you to sort them out.

Peace

[Mid]

roietjimmy thanxs,

will be interesting to watch the D/L counter ...........

[ColPyat]

I'm really getting pissed of human rights groups. They don't anything other than critisize whatever is done.

If an army steps up against a questionable government and makes sure that peace is kept for a while, then that is not acceptable for them. If the same army leads the people to the first public vote in history of accepting or rejecting a constitution then that's again not okay for them, because the army did it. My goodness, when do they start looking at WHAT is done rather than WHO does it. Where is it written that people in uniforms do everything wrong, while people in business suits are always right?

I would advise you to read what Human Rights groups are complaining about. The complained lots against Thaksin as well.

What they complained though in this referendum is that several anti constitution activists were arrested, their campaign material was confiscated, they had very little access to the medias (as compared to the pro constitution side). They complain that school children were commanded out of school without consent of their parents to march for the constitution in public demonstrations.

And yes, they also look at what is done as well, just as the highly questionable ISOC laws which are severely restricting civil liberties.

With a voter turn out of well lower than 60%, and more than 40% "No" votes, and clear indications that many of the "yes" votes only did vote so because they believe that this is the quickest way to get the military out - this is neither a strong vote of confidence for the military, nor for the constitution.

And if you translate this result into the next elections - there is a strong possibility that the next government is formed by the TRT follow up party Parang Prachachon. Given Gen. Sonthi's statements not ruling out future coups, i think that it should be clear for all that this is a clear sign that Thailand's problems are far from over.

[hammered]

I'm really getting pissed of human rights groups. They don't anything other than critisize whatever is done.

If an army steps up against a questionable government and makes sure that peace is kept for a while, then that is not acceptable for them. If the same army leads the people to the first public vote in history of accepting or rejecting a constitution then that's again not okay for them, because the army did it. My goodness, when do they start looking at WHAT is done rather than WHO does it. Where is it written that people in uniforms do everything wrong, while people in business suits are always right?

I would advise you to read what Human Rights groups are complaining about. The complained lots against Thaksin as well.

What they complained though in this referendum is that several anti constitution activists were arrested, their campaign material was confiscated, they had very little access to the medias (as compared to the pro constitution side). They complain that school children were commanded out of school without consent of their parents to march for the constitution in public demonstrations.

And yes, they also look at what is done as well, just as the highly questionable ISOC laws which are severely restricting civil liberties.

With a voter turn out of well lower than 60%, and more than 40% "No" votes, and clear indications that many of the "yes" votes only did vote so because they believe that this is the quickest way to get the military out - this is neither a strong vote of confidence for the military, nor for the constitution.

And if you translate this result into the next elections - there is a strong possibility that the next government is formed by the TRT follow up party Parang Prachachon. Given Gen. Sonthi's statements not ruling out future coups, i think that it should be clear for all that this is a clear sign that Thailand's problems are far from over.

Hi Colpyat

I think your last paragraph is where we are at. In some ways the numbers for or against the charter dont matter now as even opponents are accepting it. Where we go before and after the next election will be crucial and in the next few days as new parties are formed and MPs decide who to run under things will become clearer. While we sit and row over what things mean the politicians have moved on and are gearing up for the election and after. Already we have seen those statements of compromise by several politicians. PPP could be the largest party after the next election and having Samak as PM doesnt appeal much to me, but would the military really mind? After all Samak and Generals go back a long way. Somewhere there has got to be a compromise or there will be violence. Hopefully we are now approaching a point where compromise rather than brinkmanship is turned to.

Personally and barring big events I dont think another coup would be tolerated by people for quite some time. What we need is actually politicains to step up to the plate for once and put the needs of the whole country and its people first. Somehow I dont think we are going to get this which will be sad for the people of this country if it happens. I try to be optomistic but it takes a lot of looking. Instead of saying they wont work with each other why dont PPP and Dems not rule anything out? A coalition of them would actually represent all the regions. I better stop before going overboard in fantasy land.

[cmsally]

This is just an example. But I know of many people who voted for the constitution whilst being against it, they are sick and tired of the upheavals and want to get on with their business. Whether they made a good decision remains to be seen. In my housekeepers village there were at least 10 elderly people who filled out their slips , not understanding them, only to find out after they had crossed the wrong box. That's only 1 small village, so times the amount of villages in Thailand, that is an awful lot of people who made a wrong vote because of not having a clue (that doesn't count those that got the right box but still didn't have a clue).