Are Farangs Who Marriages Failed Lucky?

[canadiangirl]

can someone tell me the big difference between a 18 year old and 25 year old village girl? if a 27 year old girl can love a 60 year old man, why cant a 17 year old? your logic seems off here. either it is impossible for both of them to love him, or neither of them.

Dude, a 17 year old in a romantic relationship with a 60 year old? That's just creepy, never mind illegal. So what if her dad introduced him? (I'm referring to the situation someone brought up on the thread) What kind of parent would do something like that? There's a word for men like that, they're called "pimps".

These relationships are creepy because there's NO CHANCE that it's a relationship between equals. No chance.

If the 60 year old man tells me a 17 year old is his equal -- ha! -- that doesn't say anything very good about him. What, you've learned nothing in 43 years of life? Jesus.

Besides, a guy who doesn't believe a man should support his own children (see other bkksinga thread), would be better off forsaking the nubile young bodies for post-menopausal ones.

[canadiangirl]

That maybe has less to do with the age issue we seem to be stuck here, but more on the side-effects of such lopsided relationships in uneven playing fields of those underdeveloped and developing countries which become target of westerners on the search for something. And no, even though predominantly western men, also western women are part of that social phenomenon.

What i try to illustrate here, is that things are more complex than just "love" and a "meeting of souls", and if reduced to this, it is a simple denial of reality. There are more than a few serious studies available on all related subjects. I wish some here would bother reading and internalizing them.

I agree with you ColPyat. I've tried to express this a few pages ago too: the problem isn't really age (so it's pointless to clamor for "what age difference is ok?" the real issue isn't there) the problem is differences in power. By power I mean, socio-economic power, maturity, experience, ability to navigate through life, the amount of choices one has, confidence in oneself, understanding of the society you're in, emotional ability.

This power issue isn't just one way. In some situations, the girl does wield power over the farang (although I think many guys make themselves out to be victim when they should take some responsability) I think that the two last "parts" I mention above are what sometimes explains these "bargirl stole my house" situations you see on TV, where the girl rips off some farang guy, who you'd really expect to know better, all things considered. But many of the guys are lonely, feel unattractive, sad about previous relationships and so they want to believe, and as well the girl has the "home court" advantage, of understanding her own country and her own culture, which the guy doesn't necessarily understand. So she can say things like "oh, yeah, everyone pays huge sin sot" -- trying to pass off personal greed as a cultural tradition.

Edited August 28, 2007 by canadiangirl

[Dupont]

can someone tell me the big difference between a 18 year old and 25 year old village girl? if a 27 year old girl can love a 60 year old man, why cant a 17 year old? your logic seems off here. either it is impossible for both of them to love him, or neither of them.

Dude, a 17 year old in a romantic relationship with a 60 year old? That's just creepy, never mind illegal. So what if her dad introduced him? (I'm referring to the situation someone brought up on the thread) What kind of parent would do something like that? There's a word for men like that, they're called "pimps".

These relationships are creepy because there's NO CHANCE that it's a relationship between equals. No chance.

If the 60 year old man tells me a 17 year old is his equal -- ha! -- that doesn't say anything very good about him. What, you've learned nothing in 43 years of life? Jesus.

Besides, a guy who doesn't believe a man should support his own children (see other bkksinga thread), would be better off forsaking the nubile young bodies for post-menopausal ones.

Love,

If you spent as much time analysing yourself and working on your own relationship issues as you do criticising others and googling up bumf to support your hatred of white men, perhaps you could find some happiness in life.

Perhaps even with... of all things.... A MAN

Perhaps Thailand isn't for you! Maybe in the middle east, Pakistan, Eastern Europe, where all women are free, un-oppressed, and happy would suit you! Nothing to moan about in these bastions of womens rights!

Thailand is a beautiful country, with mostly lovely people of all races. If you want to wage a "wimmins" war, wage it somewhere less safe and beautiful and maybe people will take you more seriously. A few PC posts on here, then off to the beach, a nice restaruant, for a manicure or a massage etc is what western feminists in Thailand are known for.

[mikethevigoman]

can someone tell me the big difference between a 18 year old and 25 year old village girl? if a 27 year old girl can love a 60 year old man, why cant a 17 year old? your logic seems off here. either it is impossible for both of them to love him, or neither of them.

See? It proves what I said. No one dares to state the age difference! Coz once they say it they will show at once their stupidity and their illogicality. It will become obvious and they know it but still want to argue just because they feel it is wrong.

I bet RB is going to disappear from now on.

When the age difference in a marital partnership approaches one generational difference (generally assumed as 20 - 25 years) then things turn a bit strange, when though there is an approximate two generation gap - it is just gross.

Citing "Love" is a bit of a simplification, considering that your side of the debate consistently refuses to address important contributing issues in the socio-economic and cultural field, lack of communication, etc.

These large amount of lopsided relationships between westerners and Thais are possible here not because a completely different capacity for "love" by the women - but because it is not a level playing field, and what would be anomalies in similar socio economical conditions (both in the west and here), are possible because of an extremely uneven playing field.

Also in Thailand it is an exception that between Thais of a similar socio-economical group form relationships, other than the ones based on materialistic reasons such as many Mia Noi/Mia Chao relationships, when there is a huge age difference. Why do you guys think that just because one partner is western/foreign - Thai women are so attracted to them even though there often is very little communication possible.

Are you so in denial that you can't see the obvious?

Michael Douglas Catherine Zeta-Jones .acceptable or is he a cradle snatching paedophile ? Edited August 28, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[ColPyat]

Thailand is a beautiful country, with mostly lovely people of all races.

For Christ's sake - before issuing such platitudes, please watch the news here. Thais are as human as everybody else, and this country has some very serious problems.

[mikethevigoman]

With 'women' who act like ladettes, trying to out drink the men. 'Women' found lying in gutters with their knickers down around their ankles, totally p*ssed out of their skulls

'Women' with body jewellrey from clitoris to nasal hole and tattoos from assh*le to earhole acting so macho, causing fights, running round in gangs with knives and other weapons. 'Women' swearing, spewing their guts up and peeing in the streets

Ahhh, Western civilisation. Isn't it wonderful?

And people wonder why some of us like to come to Thailand for a bit of peace and quiet and for females who look and act like I would expect a female to be.!!

Yes, Thai women and men have their faults but nothing like their Western counterparts seem to have developed. OK we may lose a few £/$ or whatever to the gold diggers and rip off merchants. But we would lose that in the West also IMHO

Failed marriages? Seems like a totally failed society to me.

You must be talking about PLYMOUTH AND TORQUAY !

[canadiangirl]

If you spent as much time analysing yourself and working on your own relationship issues as you do criticising others and googling up bumf to support your hatred of white men, perhaps you could find some happiness in life.

Perhaps even with... of all things.... A MAN

Perhaps Thailand isn't for you! Maybe in the middle east, Pakistan, Eastern Europe, where all women are free, un-oppressed, and happy would suit you! Nothing to moan about in these bastions of womens rights!

Thailand is a beautiful country, with mostly lovely people of all races. If you want to wage a "wimmins" war, wage it somewhere less safe and beautiful and maybe people will take you more seriously. A few PC posts on here, then off to the beach, a nice restaruant, for a manicure or a massage etc is what western feminists in Thailand are known for.

What in the world are you talking about? You know absolutely nothing about my life, apart from the fact that, like yourself, I've chosen to waste some time/procrastinate on the internet by posting to TV.

It might come as a surprise to some here, but feminists don't hate men. Nor do I. I dislike idiots, however, and people who repeat the same tired personal insults instead of bringing any real facts to the table.

[ColPyat]

Michael Douglas Catherine Zeta-Jones .acceptable or is he a cradle snatching paedophile ?

I think i have pointed out several times that i don't spend much time thinking about some Hollywood celebrities. Yes, supposedly their age difference is as high as i have pointed out (i have no idea who Catherine Zeta-Jones is, and Michael Douglas is IMHO an actor that will forever stay in the shadow of his father), than naturally it will fall under a rather "creepy" relationship.

Why that fixation on those celebs?

[mikethevigoman]

Canadiangirl, you are a cool chick, and I wish you the best. Please PM me when you come to BKK and I'd be glad to go to morlam clubs with you and anybody else. I'd also be willing to bet that most of these mean-spirited old and getting old men on this forum would be really nice and genuine guys if you met them in person. This internet anonymity is quite deceiving.

You're on for some morlam, Chinthee!

You're probably right about most people being nice and genuine guys outside of forum. I think sometimes the internet makes jerks of the best of us. It's a lot harder to be harsh, (and I include myself in this) with a real human being in front of you.

True, but does that mean you arent being honest to their face ?

[lannarebirth]

instead of bringing any real facts to the table.

Her's some facts for you. I know many many people involved in cross cultural relationships here. Some, the spouses are the same age, some, there is a small age difference, and some it's a greater difference. All are involved in living their lives the best they know how and raising their families. Not one marriage I've ever seen has been between "equals". A wife or a husband may make more money, one may be better at nurturing or disciplining children. One may be bright and the other dull. One may be older, One may be better looking, One may have more compassio, One may have more common sense. It's just not that important to them. It is incredible to me that it is so important to you. Would you really not become involved in a relationship with someone beause they are poorer than you or not the same level of education?

I would only wish your life is as happy as most of the people I know.

[canadiangirl]

Canadiangirl, you are a cool chick, and I wish you the best. Please PM me when you come to BKK and I'd be glad to go to morlam clubs with you and anybody else. I'd also be willing to bet that most of these mean-spirited old and getting old men on this forum would be really nice and genuine guys if you met them in person. This internet anonymity is quite deceiving.

You're on for some morlam, Chinthee!

You're probably right about most people being nice and genuine guys outside of forum. I think sometimes the internet makes jerks of the best of us. It's a lot harder to be harsh, (and I include myself in this) with a real human being in front of you.

True, but does that mean you arent being honest to their face ?

Well, I am a rather polite person face to face. If I really don't agree with someone, I usually just avoid them if I can, rather than have a big discussion that can never go anywhere good. On the Internet it's a bit different, it's true, as the whole point of forums is having discussions. In this case the OP asked "what do you guys think of this?" -- so I got sucked in to the big time sink which is TV and answered.

In general, I really don't mind having my point of view challenged by facts , and I've had some pretty candid discussions about love and relationships in Thailand with many men and women, without the conversation degenerating like it does here. I don't like gender wars. I think men and women would benefit from honest discussion and trying to understand each other better.

Edited August 28, 2007 by canadiangirl

[canadiangirl]

[

I would only wish your life is as happy as most of the people I know.

Ah, see, here's what I'm talking about. Why do you feel the need to insult me?

My only claim is that in many cases, economics is a significant factor in relationships between young Thai women and older farang men. Can you dispute that?

[kmart]

The time and effort required to sustain a successful relationship might preclude someone from wading through 34 pages of an internet forum thread like this one...?

Edited August 28, 2007 by kmart

[ColPyat]

instead of bringing any real facts to the table.

Her's some facts for you. I know many many people involved in cross cultural relationships here. Some, the spouses are the same age, some, there is a small age difference, and some it's a greater difference. All are involved in living their lives the best they know how and raising their families. Not one marriage I've ever seen has been between "equals". A wife or a husband may make more money, one may be better at nurturing or disciplining children. One may be bright and the other dull. One may be older, One may be better looking, One may have more compassio, One may have more common sense. It's just not that important to them. It is incredible to me that it is so important to you. Would you really not become involved in a relationship with someone beause they are poorer than you or not the same level of education?

I would only wish your life is as happy as most of the people I know.

I fear it is not that simple.

Yes, i know that many relationships between so called equals break down as well, but i think this is a different topic, but much could be said there as well.

Many of those cross cultural relationships here do end, and more often than not badly. Anyone who is in such a lopsided relationship, and says that it is easy, is IMHO either in denial, not honest, or under some delusions (and some delusions are purposely manufactured). These relationships have their own particular difficulties, and not only that - they have wider impacts on the society as well. The issue of age difference (which is one of the many issues, but here in this debate we seemed to be constantly forced into it) is one of the many factors.

I know several villages where such cross cultural relationships became the main stable of the local economy, and Mia Farang is a career for most women in the village (while often still juggling a Thai husband around - the man they love, vs. the provider who loves them).

There are many other issues (which do get purposely ignored by the defenders of lopsided relationships under all circumstances, even if both partners can't communicate), such as socio-economical and cultural gaps, that take hard work to bridge. And that i can say out of my own experience by being nearly 15 years in such a relationship.

Yes, i do know of course many such cross-cultural relationships. And more than a few are absolutely dysfunctional. Please, don't make them appear as they are all matches found in heaven - you don't do yourself any credit. I know that there is a very strong tabu of interfering in privacy here in Thailand, and Farang living here have to observe this as well. That means that we shouldn't analyze particular relationships here, but we should be honest enough to admit that things aren't all kushty.

[lannarebirth]

[

I would only wish your life is as happy as most of the people I know.

Ah, see, here's what I'm talking about. Why do you feel the need to insult me?

My only claim is that in many cases, economics is a significant factor in relationships between young Thai women and older farang men. Can you dispute that?

I don't dispute that. or would I dispute that it is a major factor in relationships elsewhere. All, I'm disputing is that it should matter.

[meemiathai]

can someone tell me the big difference between a 18 year old and 25 year old village girl? if a 27 year old girl can love a 60 year old man, why cant a 17 year old? your logic seems off here. either it is impossible for both of them to love him, or neither of them.

Dude, a 17 year old in a romantic relationship with a 60 year old? That's just creepy, never mind illegal. So what if her dad introduced him? (I'm referring to the situation someone brought up on the thread) What kind of parent would do something like that? There's a word for men like that, they're called "pimps".

These relationships are creepy because there's NO CHANCE that it's a relationship between equals. No chance.

If the 60 year old man tells me a 17 year old is his equal -- ha! -- that doesn't say anything very good about him. What, you've learned nothing in 43 years of life? Jesus.

Besides, a guy who doesn't believe a man should support his own children (see other bkksinga thread), would be better off forsaking the nubile young bodies for post-menopausal ones.

No chance? You are wrong then. There are cases like this. There was a very young actress here in hk, she was in her teens, she got hooked up with a very old man who has a family. This girl came from a well off family. This girl is a lawyer now. It was her choice.

By the way, what equal are you talking about?

[meemiathai]

That maybe has less to do with the age issue we seem to be stuck here, but more on the side-effects of such lopsided relationships in uneven playing fields of those underdeveloped and developing countries which become target of westerners on the search for something. And no, even though predominantly western men, also western women are part of that social phenomenon.

What i try to illustrate here, is that things are more complex than just "love" and a "meeting of souls", and if reduced to this, it is a simple denial of reality. There are more than a few serious studies available on all related subjects. I wish some here would bother reading and internalizing them.

I agree with you ColPyat. I've tried to express this a few pages ago too: the problem isn't really age (so it's pointless to clamor for "what age difference is ok?" the real issue isn't there) the problem is differences in power. By power I mean, socio-economic power, maturity, experience, ability to navigate through life, the amount of choices one has, confidence in oneself, understanding of the society you're in, emotional ability.

This power issue isn't just one way. In some situations, the girl does wield power over the farang (although I think many guys make themselves out to be victim when they should take some responsability) I think that the two last "parts" I mention above are what sometimes explains these "bargirl stole my house" situations you see on TV, where the girl rips off some farang guy, who you'd really expect to know better, all things considered. But many of the guys are lonely, feel unattractive, sad about previous relationships and so they want to believe, and as well the girl has the "home court" advantage, of understanding her own country and her own culture, which the guy doesn't necessarily understand. So she can say things like "oh, yeah, everyone pays huge sin sot" -- trying to pass off personal greed as a cultural tradition.

It is a fair game then. What were we arguing about? Where is the problem? Both taking advantage of another.

[lannarebirth]

instead of bringing any real facts to the table.

Her's some facts for you. I know many many people involved in cross cultural relationships here. Some, the spouses are the same age, some, there is a small age difference, and some it's a greater difference. All are involved in living their lives the best they know how and raising their families. Not one marriage I've ever seen has been between "equals". A wife or a husband may make more money, one may be better at nurturing or disciplining children. One may be bright and the other dull. One may be older, One may be better looking, One may have more compassio, One may have more common sense. It's just not that important to them. It is incredible to me that it is so important to you. Would you really not become involved in a relationship with someone beause they are poorer than you or not the same level of education?

I would only wish your life is as happy as most of the people I know.

I fear it is not that simple.

Yes, i know that many relationships between so called equals break down as well, but i think this is a different topic, but much could be said there as well.

Many of those cross cultural relationships here do end, and more often than not badly. Anyone who is in such a lopsided relationship, and says that it is easy, is IMHO either in denial, not honest, or under some delusions (and some delusions are purposely manufactured). These relationships have their own particular difficulties, and not only that - they have wider impacts on the society as well. The issue of age difference (which is one of the many issues, but here in this debate we seemed to be constantly forced into it) is one of the many factors.

I know several villages where such cross cultural relationships became the main stable of the local economy, and Mia Farang is a career for most women in the village (while often still juggling a Thai husband around - the man they love, vs. the provider who loves them).

There are many other issues (which do get purposely ignored by the defenders of lopsided relationships under all circumstances, even if both partners can't communicate), such as socio-economical and cultural gaps, that take hard work to bridge. And that i can say out of my own experience by being nearly 15 years in such a relationship.

Yes, i do know of course many such cross-cultural relationships. And more than a few are absolutely dysfunctional. Please, don't make them appear as they are all matches found in heaven - you don't do yourself any credit. I know that there is a very strong tabu of interfering in privacy here in Thailand, and Farang living here have to observe this as well. That means that we shouldn't analyze particular relationships here, but we should be honest enough to admit that things aren't all kushty.

You think it's big news that there is difficulty in relationships? Where isn't that the case? In the country I come from the rate of marriages is plummeting and the number of people who marry who wind up getting divorced is skyrocketing. This is going on amongst "equals". Is that a good social trend? I don't think so. Relationships amywhere are a lot of work, and if you don't do the work, they will likely fail. Personally, I like dogs.

[meemiathai]

[

I would only wish your life is as happy as most of the people I know.

Ah, see, here's what I'm talking about. Why do you feel the need to insult me?

My only claim is that in many cases, economics is a significant factor in relationships between young Thai women and older farang men. Can you dispute that?

I don't think anyone will dispute that. But your claim has been more, it seemed to me. You seem to be saying that there should be a limit for the age difference. And if it exceeds the limit, it is unacceptable. Is that the case?

[lannarebirth]

[

I would only wish your life is as happy as most of the people I know.

Ah, see, here's what I'm talking about. Why do you feel the need to insult me?

My only claim is that in many cases, economics is a significant factor in relationships between young Thai women and older farang men. Can you dispute that?

I don't think anyone will dispute that. But your claim has been more, it seemed to me. You seem to be saying that there should be a limit for the age difference. And if it exceeds the limit, it is unacceptable. Is that the case?

I don't see the age difference as being very important, but I would say that reaching a certain age generally gives someone more amturity and ability to reach reasoned decisions. I would have more problems with a 17 year old marrying a 45 year old, tha I would with a 25 year old marry a 65 year old.

[meemiathai]

instead of bringing any real facts to the table.

Her's some facts for you. I know many many people involved in cross cultural relationships here. Some, the spouses are the same age, some, there is a small age difference, and some it's a greater difference. All are involved in living their lives the best they know how and raising their families. Not one marriage I've ever seen has been between "equals". A wife or a husband may make more money, one may be better at nurturing or disciplining children. One may be bright and the other dull. One may be older, One may be better looking, One may have more compassio, One may have more common sense. It's just not that important to them. It is incredible to me that it is so important to you. Would you really not become involved in a relationship with someone beause they are poorer than you or not the same level of education?

I would only wish your life is as happy as most of the people I know.

I fear it is not that simple.

Yes, i know that many relationships between so called equals break down as well, but i think this is a different topic, but much could be said there as well.

Many of those cross cultural relationships here do end, and more often than not badly. Anyone who is in such a lopsided relationship, and says that it is easy, is IMHO either in denial, not honest, or under some delusions (and some delusions are purposely manufactured). These relationships have their own particular difficulties, and not only that - they have wider impacts on the society as well. The issue of age difference (which is one of the many issues, but here in this debate we seemed to be constantly forced into it) is one of the many factors.

I know several villages where such cross cultural relationships became the main stable of the local economy, and Mia Farang is a career for most women in the village (while often still juggling a Thai husband around - the man they love, vs. the provider who loves them).

There are many other issues (which do get purposely ignored by the defenders of lopsided relationships under all circumstances, even if both partners can't communicate), such as socio-economical and cultural gaps, that take hard work to bridge. And that i can say out of my own experience by being nearly 15 years in such a relationship.

Yes, i do know of course many such cross-cultural relationships. And more than a few are absolutely dysfunctional. Please, don't make them appear as they are all matches found in heaven - you don't do yourself any credit. I know that there is a very strong tabu of interfering in privacy here in Thailand, and Farang living here have to observe this as well. That means that we shouldn't analyze particular relationships here, but we should be honest enough to admit that things aren't all kushty.

Let's make it simple. Could people here answer the question.

A 60 year old farang and a 20 year old thai girl gets married, both happy with that for whatever reason:

1)Will you people look down on the man? 2)Is it going to be a problem with you?

[Naam]

Let's make it simple. Could people here answer the question.

A 60 year old farang and a 20 year old thai girl gets married, both happy with that for whatever reason:

1)Will you people look down on the man? 2)Is it going to be a problem with you?

1) no

2) no

3) i'd wish him all the happiness karma has provided for him and (perhaps) her

4) of course there are low-life clowns who look down on him. especially those married to a bitch of ugly farang hag.

[A_Traveller]

This has to be a really bizarre thread with a level of angst second to none. When every I read about some 'not knowing' about popular culture I'm always reminded of, the no doubt apocryphal, judge asking about the Beatles to be informed that they were 'a rock beat combo, your honour'. However earlier there was some mention of a formulae, half the mans age plus 7 years I think. As an numeric exercise the following might be of interest {or not }, for clarity I've only posted even years, {avoids the untidy .5's} with a nod to Rainmans concerns about longevity.

M - F - Diff

20 - 17 - 3

22 - 18 - 4

24 - 19 - 5

26 - 20 - 6

28 - 21 - 7

30 - 22 - 8

32 - 23 - 9

34 - 24 - 10

36 - 25 - 11

38 - 26 - 12

40 - 27 - 13

42 - 28 - 14

44 - 29 - 15

46 - 30 - 16

48 - 31 - 17

50 - 32 - 18

52 - 33 - 19

54 - 34 - 20

56 - 35 - 21

58 - 36 - 22

60 - 37 - 23

62 - 38 - 24

64 - 39 - 25

66 - 40 - 26

68 - 41 - 27

70 - 42 - 28

72 - 43 - 29

74 - 44 - 30

76 - 45 - 31

78 - 46 - 32

80 - 47 - 33

82 - 48 - 34

84 - 49 - 35

86 - 50 - 36

88 - 51 - 37

90 - 52 - 38

92 - 53 - 39

94 - 54 - 40

96 - 55 - 41

98 - 56 - 42

100 - 57 - 43

Regards

/edit typo//

Edited August 28, 2007 by A_Traveller

[ratchabuild]

can someone tell me the big difference between a 18 year old and 25 year old village girl? if a 27 year old girl can love a 60 year old man, why cant a 17 year old? your logic seems off here. either it is impossible for both of them to love him, or neither of them.

See? It proves what I said. No one dares to state the age difference! Coz once they say it they will show at once their stupidity and their illogicality. It will become obvious and they know it but still want to argue just because they feel it is wrong.

I bet RB is going to disappear from now on.

When the age difference in a marital partnership approaches one generational difference (generally assumed as 20 - 25 years) then things turn a bit strange, when though there is an approximate two generation gap - it is just gross.

Citing "Love" is a bit of a simplification, considering that your side of the debate consistently refuses to address important contributing issues in the socio-economic and cultural field, lack of communication, etc.

These large amount of lopsided relationships between westerners and Thais are possible here not because a completely different capacity for "love" by the women - but because it is not a level playing field, and what would be anomalies in similar socio economical conditions (both in the west and here), are possible because of an extremely uneven playing field.

Also in Thailand it is an exception that between Thais of a similar socio-economical group form relationships, other than the ones based on materialistic reasons such as many Mia Noi/Mia Chao relationships, when there is a huge age difference. Why do you guys think that just because one partner is western/foreign - Thai women are so attracted to them even though there often is very little communication possible.

Are you so in denial that you can't see the obvious?

It is either 20 or it is 25, CP, please? You won't tell me 16-20 if I ask what age is adult, would you?

So why aren't there any laws prohibiting it?

Are people here saying all marriages are based on love? All? That simple? If not, what do we do? Go up to someone and tell him, hey! you ugly man! Did you use your money to get your wife? Was that because you had power? Was it a fair game? How can this world be 100% fair? Think of what you are wearing, it might be made in a factory where workers work 15 hrs a day for 200baht, how long does it take you to work for it? Look at the food you eat! How much money do you think farmers make? Fair? Are you taking advantage? You can live with it?

Just because indeed there are people taking advantage of the system(we all know and are not in denial) that EVERY case that a man a lot older than his partner becomes unacceptable? Even the woman genuinely is quite happy with her situation?(Of course she must think it would be even better if the man looked like Tom Cruise!)

Thai women are so attracted to them even though there often is very little communication possible.

Me and my wife lack communication. Is it any of your business?

Why not just admit this is about age? It is age discrimination? Save us some time so we don't have to argue?

It is about age, right? Not power!

There are so many things people feel strongly about that they can't affect. Your point about sweatshop shoe manufacturers is a good one. If you took on a scale from things happening on the other side of the planet and things happening in your own relationship its obvious which issues you can directly affect and those that you can't. If you are oppressing a young woman from a poorer background, perhaps with little formal education who supports her family and lives on the razors edge of oblivion in the absence of a health service then shame on you and shame on all the other men who act out their control fantasies literally on the back of an exploited woman. If repeat if...........you have so much faith in the sanctity of your bonds then transfer all your money into your wifes name. After all in a real partnership based on trust would it matter whose name it was in? What it would do would show absolute faith. How many of the great lovers have done it? How many would dare to do it?

The answer is none........... because its a relationship built on the shifting sand of exploitation and love for money, all the carefully manicured topiary of equals and respect and meeting of minds would come tumbling down.

And before we hear how X or Y has built a house in back-of-beyond and his wife owns it lets not forget

a These same men will tell you how little it cost them

b They have to put it in wifes name

c like a charming poster earlier regarding children "I would rather burn them and the house to the ground than pay any maintainance"

If the above is a representative sample GOD help you and the company you keep in defending the right of abusers and exploiters to abuse and exploit.

Edited August 28, 2007 by ratchabuild

[ratchabuild]

The real point is that what would be a statistically insignificant number of mis-matched age and socio-economic status couples back in falangland is turned, by all the middleaged men in LOS buying young flesh into a statistically significant number and on this board into perhaps the majority. Then the defenders of the mis-match try to rationalise into into some 'meeting of minds, love of the spheres, non verbal attraction, blend of experience and inexperience' Everything it is not. It's a statistical anomaly ...

Yes, RB hit it right on the nose as usual and this has been my point the whole time I've been on this forum. Thanks RB, and Dustoff for your posts; Meom - very funny

gotta go.

the problem with this analysis, is that it disregards that fact that these teenage girls and her parents are acting under their own freewill. If she and her parents wanted her to meet a man her own age, then she would, but neither her nor her parents do. She lusts after the older farang and seeks their seed and protection.

atleast this is my honest observation.

Its not freewill to be between a rock and a hard place

[ratchabuild]

Edited for: oh, why bother.

You should be more charitable to those less fortunate than yourself. Ok so you have brains, youth and charm but do you have that dogged determination that your opponents display? Like the brain dead zombies surrounding your cabin in the woods they keep shambling forward mumbling their war cry "You are jealous, you lust after my seed, I am the love God and gift to all the young women, Come come my lovely and sample my de-dentured delights..................You haven't known the heights of passion until you subside beneath the soft duvet of my belly and let me blow sweet, sweet beery fumes in your ear while you stoke my long, lank grey pubes into delicious kiss curls".

Just think what you are losing CG, your cut and their bludgeon of debate, your sharp thrust of wit and their dull thrumming until they repeat what they said before and before and before, again and again. Why, some of their words have been over two syllables, and involved sentences over six words. Of course you should be more tolerant. If not actually so old as to have had alzheimers and come through the other side they are certainly way, way beyond the first flush of youth. Most can only get out of bed with the aid of their young partner and a set of jump leads.

Because, like the goldfish, they have an incredibly short attention span the same arguments will be put over and over again. Bear in mind these men would be proud to bring home an octogenarian for their school girl daughter to woo and wed, wouldn't that just be in the fine tradition that Daddy started? Such men are the living dregs of society, washed up on the foreign shore of the blighted and benighted country that offers them the most whores in the shortest time with the least committment. Men who are the invisible grease that lubricates the wheels and cogs of commerce turn into kings full of munificence in their new-found paradise and for a few hours can live the life of a thai drunkard with a few baht in his hand. They are to be pitied. Full of platitudes, of untrue truisms and aphorisms they seek out their kind, that queasy oiliness that marks them out, rolling in the same waterhole and like the common unthinking beasts of the field, wallowing down for days on end, pausing only to soil some greasy bed with another despoiled and abused girl.

Or maybe I'm being uncharitable. Perhaps they are here on a mission to rescue the poor. To save the girls from themselves. I am sure they would say that, if they were capable of stringing the few words together

Have you been raped by an old man?

Why so much anger?

Its obvious I have never been raped by an older man. If I had succumbed to one of these self acclaimed "Lurve Gods" who could ever return to a bland diet of heterosexuality with women my own age. God forbid.

I think the reason this thread had run and run is because it touches a sore point. Whatever the supposed status of the relationship with a younger woman there's always a degree of self conciousness. There has to be because the couple are the subject of scrutiny and curiosity wherever they go. Rightly so. Its an anomaly that you dont see much outside of countries with poor young women. Every single man is determined to prove that he and his wife/[partner are the exception to the rule. Yet each falang knows, by the simple law of averages that out of any group of six drinking mates four have relationships that are a sham. The girl is going through the motions. A large study of Finns married to younger Thai women found that the men found the women far from sexy and less so than Finnish counterparts. They put it down to Bhuddism. As Mandy Rice Davis said "Well they would wouldn't they" Its easier than facing the truth. Young women dont like screwing old bodies in various stages of decay.

Thats why there is such fierce debate becasue no one is prepared to look at their own situation and acknwoledge the dynamics of the bulk of relationship between old and young. Its not a coincidence is it that the men have money and the women beauty?

Is it a concidence that the girls usually have little education?

Give me some examples of rich young Thai women marrying poor old men and I'll buy the meeting of minds scenario....because don't forget if it exists as a phenomenon then it has to exist outside the lopsided arrangement the average falang makes.

The truth of the matter is no such examples exist. The falangs who preach that they have found love with a woman light years younger with a different culture and a different education and life experience are deluding themselves. They have bought companionship. And in a few too short years the love......what little existed will turn to care and then they will die and the whole sorry episode will be laid to rest and the survivor will pick up the piecces of her life, hopefully with some money and marry for love.

Thats the reason the antis dont like it; its real and its honest and it describes their relationships accurately.

My view is that if you have to be a serial abuser and ensnare some young woman to be your handmaiden/carer then at least you owe her a duty of care.......and that duty implies some realism and none of the pretence of a romantic liaison. That particular self delusion is only a prop to enable the man to move onto another victim when he can no longer pretend that she loves him.

[bangkoksingapore]

i would really love to see some of you pick up a book about evolution and then tell me that its not naturally for a 58 year old man and a 18 year old girl to shack up. this has been happening since the beginning of man. both parties are very very very happy with their partner. who are you tell them that this person is not their soul mate and true love?

there is only one answer which is that you are arrogant and sticking your nose where it does not belong.

[ratchabuild]

i would really love to see some of you pick up a book about evolution and then tell me that its not naturally for a 58 year old man and a 18 year old girl to shack up. this has been happening since the beginning of man. both parties are very very very happy with their partner. who are you tell them that this person is not their soul mate and true love?

there is only one answer which is that you are arrogant and sticking your nose where it does not belong.

I am sorry Bangkokinsingapore but its impossible to think of a reply that does not breach posting rules. Suffice to say I am blown away by the depth of your ignorance once again..............I bow to you master...I am not worthy.

[Dustoff]

You think it's big news that there is difficulty in relationships? Where isn't that the case? In the country I come from the rate of marriages is plummeting and the number of people who marry who wind up getting divorced is skyrocketing. This is going on amongst "equals". Is that a good social trend? I don't think so. Relationships amywhere are a lot of work, and if you don't do the work, they will likely fail. Personally, I like dogs.

Banging your head against the wall, are you? Wear a helmet.

This thread reminds me of my neighbor in Southern Louisiana in the States wandering over to vent his anger about the local hospital. He went in with a minor problem and they assigned him to a black doctor and, in a huff, he stormed out. "Good God man", says I, "he's a licensed physician!" Looking at me like I just didn't have a clue in the world he said, "I know, but he's black." Then when I made mention of his prejudice against black people, he was highly insulted. "I am NOT prejudiced! As long as blacks know their place, I have no problem with them at all."

People who have chosen a particular group to judge feel very comfortable with their 'reasoned decision' and will defend themselves vehemently against anyone who dares suggest that they may be misguided. For me, a professional farang of 60 who met and married a Thai woman 30 years my junior, to insist that we are both very happy indeed means to 'them' that I am either a liar, in denial or delusional. Worse yet that I condone the extremes of the very people they target.

Ridiculous, of course but this is typical. One poster on here rages very much like an evangelist which is indicative of his fervor, not necessarily the 'rightness' of his sermon. Try mentioning to a religious evangelist something about belief in supernatural beings and stand back to watch the show.

"Im not painting all blacks with the same brush, GOD painted them that way so we could see what they are!"

Yeah, I get it...

Edited August 28, 2007 by Dustoff

[bangkoksingapore]

well said dustoff. like i said in the first post, people are mostly jealous. they might be in love with a women their own age, but they are still bitter and jealous that youve got a younger women than them. that is why you will always see men feeling more strongly about this issue than women. it is out of jealousy.