Thai Couple Being Exploited In The Uk

[the gent]

Surely Mr Toad is right. I mean the UK has facilities to help people like this ???

Yes it has, the Border and Immigration Agency which detects and removes those who breach their conditions of entry and remain illegally, a duty which it performs at no cost to the offender whatsoever.

Why on earth should these people be helped beyond returning them to their own country? For goodness sakes they invested their trust in their own kind and got shafted royally but ultimately it was their call. This sort of bleeding heart tosh that somehow the British state has a nebulous responsibility for foolish naifs simply because they are poor and exploitable is utterly preposterous and quite insulting particularly when one considers the reciprocal treatment likely to be meted out to farang fallen on hard times in Thailand.

Grief, they're just another pair of illegals pushing their luck. How are they so different to the 50,000 others knocked back annually from the UK. Or are you suggesting that anyone and everyone should stay at will, particularly when they are cute,fluffy little Thai couples?

[the scouser]

As harsh as it may seem, I don't think they have any other option than to hand themselves in and return home.

It would appear that they entered the UK under the provisions of the Sector-Based work permit scheme which allowed employment in certain areas for a year at a time, but which has now largely been done away with. In order to qualify for another work permit, they will have to demonstrate, as a minimum, that they either hold degrees or have three years' experience in the field which could be considered to constitute a GNVQ level 3 qualification. Additionally, any job which they should be offered will have to be advertised within the EU before an application can be made and the employer will have to explain why any other applicants are not suitable. In other words, there is no way they will get a work permit and, even if they did, they would have to leave the UK in order to apply for another visa to get back in. If they plan it correctly, they may be able to take their previous employer down with them, and they will get a free trip back to Thailand, although can potentially expect a few days' detention prior to being removed.

There is a concession that allows people who have been in the UK for 14 years to gain permanent residence, but that is an awfully long time for this couple to be looking over their shoulders and, undoubtedly, they would be consigned to further exploitation during this time.

Scouse.

[UnknownPoster]

Unfortunatly, this is a common issue.

Thais located overseas, often bring in help from Thailand and expect to pay them Thai wages, give them "housing" in the restaurant storeroom and work them 16 hours a day.

[Gumballl]

I am posting to get some views/ advice from members about the following:

Over the past three or four months we have got to know a young Thai couple who live near us in the UK and work in a local Thai restaurant. They have recently disclosed to us a serious personal predicament as they feel they can now trust us and they do not know what to do.

It transpires that they came to the UK about 18 months ago having paid 300,00 baht to some sort of employment agency in Thailand, who promised them work permits and good paid jobs in the UK. They borrowed the money against family land in the hope that they could come to the UK and send money back.

They came over here and initially worked in the hotel industry on very low wages but with live-in accommodation. After deductions, they had barely enough to live on let alone start to pay off the loan back in Thailand. They continued working as they were told that after one year, they would be free to get better paid jobs elsewhere.

The year passed, their work permits lapsed and the hotel dismissed them! They then got a job with this Thai restaurant, again with tied accommodation. I have found out that they were being paid £2.50 per hour for each working 66 hours a week! They were even having accommodation bills deducted from this, so again they could barely afford to feed themselves. When they asked about earning more so that they could start paying the loan, they again were told to pack their bags. They are now staying with a friend and helping out in their pub for free (well for a room I guess).

I know some may see them as illegal immigrants who should be deported, but I just see a nice hard working young couple who have been cheated, lied to and are now being exploited by (Thai) businesses over here who know they cannot complain.

If they go back to Thailand, they cannot pay back the loan and their families will be homeless. If they stay here, they will effectively remain as slaves, scraping to pay off a loan they cannot really afford.

Any ideas will be gratefully received.

They should have used their heads. Everyone knows that illegal aliens in the US make more money.

[bendix]

Presumably your chum will also be happy to pay the 10,000 GBP penalty he will receive if the couple are encountered working illegally in his boozer and he cannot produce a prescribed defence acceptable to the authorities? Lax enforcement in prohibiting illegal employment is gradually receding and the penalties are shortly to be increased and may involve imprisonment for up to 2 years and/or a fine.

I can well understand the tea and sympathy currently on offer but must confess to some surprise that you the hard nosed Bendix has also succumbed to the siren call of sentiment.

Mellowing in anticipation of your retirement perhaps ?

It wouldn't be illegal employment. He would take care of work permits etc.

Not sure if you know, but Thai food and Thai restaurants are hot in England at the moment and he owns a well-known country pub in a Norfolk Broads village. Norwich, the nearest big city, has six Thai restaurants, booked to the rafters everynight.

He wants his pub to serve Thai food to meet that demand.

He currently pays significantly more to a chef who will be leaving the UK to travel the world, and he's asked if I can source a Thai couple to work legitimately in his pub to build up a Thai restaurant there. Frankly, it's too hard to do from this side of the world, so perhaps the OP's friends would be more useful.

I can't make any promises, but I'm happy to put the two parties in touch with each other to see if they can make a deal.

I will pm the OP.

[spot]

I hope it works out with the contact from Bendix.

If not, or maybe anyway, I would follow Mr Toads idea and get to the nearest Citizens advice office. They do have people there who can deal with these cases and can go through the legal process/status with them.

Unfortunately these sorts of cases are very common.

[bendix]

500 quid each a week for a couple of unqualified cooks?

Is your friend mad?

Do your sums again, pal.

The figure he talked about when we first discussed it was 1000 quid each per month which, in my books, is around 230 quid a week each.

I'd suggest you apply for it, but I think the last thing a charming country pub needs is a perpetual whinger.

[canadiangirl]

I can't make any promises, but I'm happy to put the two parties in touch with each other to see if they can make a deal.

I will pm the OP.

Whatever I think of your other opinions , kudos to you for trying to help these people, Bendix!

[bina]

very common situation here, not sure what uk organizations are but should be some org that deals probono with illegal immigrants and manpower companies... also some of these companies are on lists with law suits pending for illegal employment dealings as they have thai labourers in several countries so complaints can be filed but the worker must be willing to officially complain which they usually dont want to do.

in israel thai workers that have lost their visas due to bad employers or manpower companies that 'abandon' their workers would either get arrested and sit in jail until sent home -and land not returned of courseas it takes at least TWO YEARS (not one year like someone mentioned) to pay back the loans needed after paying manpower company in thailand and in the target country- or go to the labour orgs that try to help out... or try to play the system until caught working illegally as long as possible.

this is not unusual in any target country and yes it is thai scum bags in thailand that recruit these people

bina

israel

Edited August 21, 2007 by bina

[Prakanong]

Presumably your chum will also be happy to pay the 10,000 GBP penalty he will receive if the couple are encountered working illegally in his boozer and he cannot produce a prescribed defence acceptable to the authorities? Lax enforcement in prohibiting illegal employment is gradually receding and the penalties are shortly to be increased and may involve imprisonment for up to 2 years and/or a fine.

I can well understand the tea and sympathy currently on offer but must confess to some surprise that you the hard nosed Bendix has also succumbed to the siren call of sentiment.

Mellowing in anticipation of your retirement perhaps ?

It wouldn't be illegal employment. He would take care of work permits etc.

Not sure if you know, but Thai food and Thai restaurants are hot in England at the moment and he owns a well-known country pub in a Norfolk Broads village. Norwich, the nearest big city, has six Thai restaurants, booked to the rafters everynight.

He wants his pub to serve Thai food to meet that demand.

He currently pays significantly more to a chef who will be leaving the UK to travel the world, and he's asked if I can source a Thai couple to work legitimately in his pub to build up a Thai restaurant there. Frankly, it's too hard to do from this side of the world, so perhaps the OP's friends would be more useful.

I can't make any promises, but I'm happy to put the two parties in touch with each other to see if they can make a deal.

I will pm the OP.

But they would not get WP's according to the Scouser who I believe has expertise in this area?

[Eff1n2ret]

"It transpires that they came to the UK about 18 months ago having paid 300,00 baht to some sort of employment agency in Thailand, who promised them work permits and good paid jobs in the UK"

Given that info, one has to question whether their original work permits and visas were obtained legally. If the OP meant Three hundred thousand baht, this is commensurate with the sort of figures charged by facilitators for an illegal package, and far in excess of what one might expect to be paid to an organiser of a legitimate scheme. I'm afraid it's an all too common scenario, someone bets the family jewels on getting to the West in the hope of earning enough to send money home. There seems to be a part of humanity that is unable to resist the blandishments of timeshare salesmen, internet scammers and the like, and one can only feel sorry for the victims in this story, who may well have been misled into believing they were assured of a future in this country.

Perhaps the OP might ask them whether they actually went to the British Embassy for a visa. If they didn't they're unlikely to have entered this country legally, and their chances of a successful application to remain here are zilch. But, as Scouse says, even if they did enter on a Sector Based Work Permit, those were issued for a one-year period on the basis that the holder would return home when they expired, and they're unlikely to be allowed to stay now.

If they're not happy here they should go home.

[Charma]

As harsh as it may seem, I don't think they have any other option than to hand themselves in and return home.

It would appear that they entered the UK under the provisions of the Sector-Based work permit scheme which allowed employment in certain areas for a year at a time, but which has now largely been done away with. In order to qualify for another work permit, they will have to demonstrate, as a minimum, that they either hold degrees or have three years' experience in the field which could be considered to constitute a GNVQ level 3 qualification. Additionally, any job which they should be offered will have to be advertised within the EU before an application can be made and the employer will have to explain why any other applicants are not suitable. In other words, there is no way they will get a work permit and, even if they did, they would have to leave the UK in order to apply for another visa to get back in. If they plan it correctly, they may be able to take their previous employer down with them, and they will get a free trip back to Thailand, although can potentially expect a few days' detention prior to being removed.

There is a concession that allows people who have been in the UK for 14 years to gain permanent residence, but that is an awfully long time for this couple to be looking over their shoulders and, undoubtedly, they would be consigned to further exploitation during this time.

Scouse.

Scouse

Thanks for the information. I feared this was the case. I will tell the couple and leave it up to them to decide whether to call it a day or remain as fugitives. If they decide to leave, I will certainly encourage and assist them to report the agencies and employers involved in this.

Bendix and I have exchanged PM's and in the light of your post, it may not be possible for his friend to take on the couple, which is a shame as they are perfect for the job.

Having trawled through the Citizens Advice Bureau website I have read some recent reports they have made to government that this problem is getting worse. It is very difficult to prosecute the businesses involved because obviously the individuals do not want to initially report the offences and even when leaving, are reluctant to give evidence because of threats from these "agencies" in their own countries.

Grief, they're just another pair of illegals pushing their luck. How are they so different to the 50,000 others knocked back annually from the UK. Or are you suggesting that anyone and everyone should stay at will, particularly when they are cute,fluffy little Thai couples?

You are all heart

[Charma]

Given that info, one has to question whether their original work permits and visas were obtained legally. If the OP meant Three hundred thousand baht, this is commensurate with the sort of figures charged by facilitators for an illegal package, and far in excess of what one might expect to be paid to an organiser of a legitimate scheme. I'm afraid it's an all too common scenario, someone bets the family jewels on getting to the West in the hope of earning enough to send money home. There seems to be a part of humanity that is unable to resist the blandishments of timeshare salesmen, internet scammers and the like, and one can only feel sorry for the victims in this story, who may well have been misled into believing they were assured of a future in this country.

Perhaps the OP might ask them whether they actually went to the British Embassy for a visa. If they didn't they're unlikely to have entered this country legally, and their chances of a successful application to remain here are zilch. But, as Scouse says, even if they did enter on a Sector Based Work Permit, those were issued for a one-year period on the basis that the holder would return home when they expired, and they're unlikely to be allowed to stay now.

If they're not happy here they should go home.

I will check when I see them, but it looks like it was possibly a sector based work permit. The agency and their employer kept telling them that this would be extended. I think this was done to keep them on low wages and dangle the carrot of earning more money after their first year. It is not surprising this couple did not know the details of the UK immigration rules that relate to them - that is why these agencies get away with it.

It is not really a case them whether they are happy here. It is really a matter of returning to tell the family that they have lost the land! My feeling is that they will go back as soon as they have paid off the loan, even if this means being exploited further.

[Tinkelbell]

quoted..........."as illegal immigrants , they will not suffer in the way of punishment , and will be deported eventually and probably have their fare home paid for by the long suffering british taxpayeruoted........

..........................................................................

Some even became Thai millionairs on his own rights upon being deported back to Thailand.

As it happened in the US around 10 years ago. This cas was a high profile amomg Thai community in LA. Especially for those Thais who own a business in restaurants or garmet factories.

A Thai couple decided to open a garmet factory in LA, so that every piece of these clothing would be lebeled 'Made in USA', which means they could fetch at a premium prices, more profit for them.

But they don't want to pay at the minimum wage at almost $4.00/ hour by laws. By doing so, they turned to human traffic who smuggling Thais into US illegally. Once these unfortunated Thais came to work for them. They were treated worst than slaves : they were kept in big farm house, they were bused to and from factory where they toiled long hardship 12-14 hours a day, no overtime and no holidays paid, they were not allowed to venture anywhere outside. The living conditions was poor and substandards. These poor victims were afraid to seek help because they knew they were here illegally, besides their passports were confiscated on the first day.

One day this two Thai ladies got their chance, they ran away from the buse (while the driver stop by the convenient store), they asked one of the customer to call police.

Fast forward.....There was a trial. It took several months for the LA judge to deliver the verdict. The Thai couple, factory owners were found guilty on several charges. They were sentenced to 5 years in prison and have to pay out compensation to their employees in several milliond USD. At at time, the rate was around 40-43 BH / USD.

I saw that some victims got close to 100,000USD, some received less, depened on the length of the time they were employed.

Side note...... During the trial which went on several months. The LA City footed all the bills which spending on housing and foods for the Thai victims because they were the witnesses. After the trial finished ,they were allowed to go home to TL.

Many came back as a new millionairs.

And the US taxes payers had to work a lot harder. FAIR ???

Live is always full of surprises!

[taxexile]

Some even became Thai millionairs on his own rights upon being deported back to Thailand

and some even become millionaires upon re entering the uk illegally after an initial deportation.

i know two thai women in the uk , both were initially deported ( at the taxpayers expense) for working illegally , but returned quickly with "new names" on "new passports".

within 10 years through the clever use of bank loans and mortgages , one now owns restaurants and prime london properties , and the other one , through hard work , owns her own uk house and 2 prime bangkok properties.

neither have much education , but they both have strong ambition and great determination to succeed.

[bina]

for general info, thai workers do not have to go to an embassy to get the visas, all the leg work is done by 'agencies' manpower companies etc...

i would love to know the name of the company in thailand as i can add it to the list we have here in the workers' rights agency ; the name in england is not important as those companies change names like underwear although they are run by the same people.

i doubt the couple will report officially as all the thai workers that i know that have run into problems refuse because they dont want to make trouble, they just want to 'finish with it'. too bad really cause it is possible to prosecute these companies, the filipinas here have managed with good results.

its too bad really that people who have thai friends/family working as foreign workers dont keep track of companies/manpower groups that cause problems and report them here, to help other thai from falling into the same trap: i'm sure many farangs here know of thai family who are working abroad in this category.

the latest 'streets paved with gold' seem to be canada at the moment; korat people say that all the guys are going to canada now thru some company.

bina

israel

[roygsd]

With a name like "the Gent" it seems reasonable to assume that it what he considers himself to be, accordingly I am suprised and disapointed at the attitude he has expressed in response to this posting.

True there are a number of illegal workers in the uk, as quite likely there are in every country in the world but who can blame people for trying to improve their lot?

Apparently these people have had to raise money on their land and have been ripped of by what one poster has discribed as "their own", it really does not matter who has ripped them off it is unacceptable and these people have worked in the uk and they have every right to recieve at least the minimum wage prescried by Parliament.

Rather than knock this couple what about some assistance in ensuring that the get the basic rights everyone in this country is entitled to recieve?

Agreed this couple will have to choose to return to their home country or risk further exploitation in the future if they remain.

I have no doubt that if these people return penny less they will have a very hard time and quite likely

loose their land into the bargain, and I am disapointed to note that some posters couldnt care less, take a bow chaps, you must be very proud of yourselves, but remember, there but for the race of god goes you or yours.

I think the most practical wayforward for this couple is to help them recover what they are owed from their former employers, there is lttle doubt that the owners of the eating establishment would not welcome the intervention of the law, £20k is apparently the maximum fine.

As these Thai owners are such "cheap charlies" I am sure that when faced with the reality of pay up what you owe plus sufficient compensation to pay for their fare home or have their livelyhood threatened as a result of a Court Appearance, true they would not like it but the very real possibility of having to pay uk prices for their own lawyers and hopefully a hefty fine and the enevitable

generous amount of press coverage will likely result in not only a loss of face for them but also and perhaps more importantly a substantial loss of income.

Faced with the reality of the situation I have no doubt that these business people will what to do what is best for thier business and avoid the enevitable further investigation of the VAT and other authorities which can also be asked to investigate their busness.

Also it is possible they could have their Alcohol licence withdrawn ( if they have one) as they clearly are not Fit and Proper Persons to hold the licence, it remains to be seen if the Local Authority would take similar action but no Restaurant wants to have the Authorities on thier back.

Sometimes we have to step outside of the box to ensure a fair result is obtained.

It is often quoted TIT, but in this instance TAT is fare more appropriate, time to remind those that exploit vulnerable people THIS AINT THAILAND I think.

Its easy to kick someone when they are down, but it sure dont make it right.

If the OP would like to email me, I would like to try to help.

Anyone else got any ideas of how to get these particular employers to see the error of their ways?

Roy GSd

[paulsmithson]

I blame no one for trying to improve their lot BUT they are in my country illegally.

They deserve to be deported!

I am in their country legally.

I abide by Thai laws.

I have money tied up in the bank earning very little!

Thais show no compassion for farangs who cannot meet immigration requirements.Why should we be so soft?

[ratchabuild]

With a name like "the Gent" it seems reasonable to assume that it what he considers himself to be, accordingly I am suprised and disapointed at the attitude he has expressed in response to this posting.

True there are a number of illegal workers in the uk, as quite likely there are in every country in the world but who can blame people for trying to improve their lot?

Apparently these people have had to raise money on their land and have been ripped of by what one poster has discribed as "their own", it really does not matter who has ripped them off it is unacceptable and these people have worked in the uk and they have every right to recieve at least the minimum wage prescried by Parliament.

Rather than knock this couple what about some assistance in ensuring that the get the basic rights everyone in this country is entitled to recieve?

Agreed this couple will have to choose to return to their home country or risk further exploitation in the future if they remain.

I have no doubt that if these people return penny less they will have a very hard time and quite likely

loose their land into the bargain, and I am disapointed to note that some posters couldnt care less, take a bow chaps, you must be very proud of yourselves, but remember, there but for the race of god goes you or yours.

I think the most practical wayforward for this couple is to help them recover what they are owed from their former employers, there is lttle doubt that the owners of the eating establishment would not welcome the intervention of the law, £20k is apparently the maximum fine.

As these Thai owners are such "cheap charlies" I am sure that when faced with the reality of pay up what you owe plus sufficient compensation to pay for their fare home or have their livelyhood threatened as a result of a Court Appearance, true they would not like it but the very real possibility of having to pay uk prices for their own lawyers and hopefully a hefty fine and the enevitable

generous amount of press coverage will likely result in not only a loss of face for them but also and perhaps more importantly a substantial loss of income.

Faced with the reality of the situation I have no doubt that these business people will what to do what is best for thier business and avoid the enevitable further investigation of the VAT and other authorities which can also be asked to investigate their busness.

Also it is possible they could have their Alcohol licence withdrawn ( if they have one) as they clearly are not Fit and Proper Persons to hold the licence, it remains to be seen if the Local Authority would take similar action but no Restaurant wants to have the Authorities on thier back.

Sometimes we have to step outside of the box to ensure a fair result is obtained.

It is often quoted TIT, but in this instance TAT is fare more appropriate, time to remind those that exploit vulnerable people THIS AINT THAILAND I think.

Its easy to kick someone when they are down, but it sure dont make it right.

If the OP would like to email me, I would like to try to help.

Anyone else got any ideas of how to get these particular employers to see the error of their ways?

Roy GSd

Agreed. Falangs in LOS are economic migrants in the sense it makes their money go further, they are seeking a better life, usually without contributing much but money, they wont build anything, they wont make anything or develop goods and services, they are too old in the main to pay a lifetimes taxes as the Thai equivalent will do. They are lotus eaters that will only drive up beer sales. Many actively seek to circumvent the law, (Visa runs etc). Exploitation is exploitation wherever it occurs.

Edited August 26, 2007 by ratchabuild

[Charma]

I can now provide an update on this story:

The couple have been given jobs at a pub/hotel up north. The pay is still not minimum wage, but it is much more than they were getting before and includes free accomodation. The owners are prepared to take the risks regarding the expired visas. Their plan is to earn enough to pay off the loan and then go back to Thailand to start again. They do not want to take any action against the other restaurants at this stage as they do not want to be found by authorities. I have asked them to let me help them when they leave, that maybe we can combine them turning themselves in, with action against these companies that have sought to exploit them. When they return, they are going to try to publicise what has happened so that fewer Thais fall into the trap of these "agencies" who promise the world and then leave you and stranded.

To everyone that has offered help and advice (roygsd & bendix in particular) - thanks. At least I was able to clarify their legal situation for them.

I myself agree with some posters that feel immigration controls are necessary. However, that does not mean you have to feel angry with the unfortunate people of the world who seek out a better life for themselves and their families. They are only doing what most oif us would do in a similar situation.

[terryp]

I can now provide an update on this story:

They are only doing what most oif us would do in a similar situation.

There is a big building at Queens Gate London called the Thai Embassy failing that

Khun Taxin is in London possibly he could stand by his motto “Thai Rak Thai” and help them out

Sorry but with the problems many foreigners get in Thailand this is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>o

[Jersey_UK]

I can now provide an update on this story:

The couple have been given jobs at a pub/hotel up north. The pay is still not minimum wage, but it is much more than they were getting before and includes free accomodation. The owners are prepared to take the risks regarding the expired visas. Their plan is to earn enough to pay off the loan and then go back to Thailand to start again. They do not want to take any action against the other restaurants at this stage as they do not want to be found by authorities. I have asked them to let me help them when they leave, that maybe we can combine them turning themselves in, with action against these companies that have sought to exploit them. When they return, they are going to try to publicise what has happened so that fewer Thais fall into the trap of these "agencies" who promise the world and then leave you and stranded.

To everyone that has offered help and advice (roygsd & bendix in particular) - thanks. At least I was able to clarify their legal situation for them.

I myself agree with some posters that feel immigration controls are necessary. However, that does not mean you have to feel angry with the unfortunate people of the world who seek out a better life for themselves and their families. They are only doing what most oif us would do in a similar situation.

How nice of you to provide assistance - whilst I too have sympathy for folk on a personal level - even unpaid (presumably?), it is still at least assisting with (if not actually engaging in) People Trafficking........of course we only have your word that it is an Adult couple you have been seeking assistance to hide and for the reasons you state........

Anyway, even taking things at face value (LOL), you're a braver man than me Gunga Din - especially given that the Internet is not quite as Anon as it used to be / folk think it is..........

Edited August 26, 2007 by Jersey_UK

[Charma]

I can now provide an update on this story:

The couple have been given jobs at a pub/hotel up north. The pay is still not minimum wage, but it is much more than they were getting before and includes free accomodation. The owners are prepared to take the risks regarding the expired visas. Their plan is to earn enough to pay off the loan and then go back to Thailand to start again. They do not want to take any action against the other restaurants at this stage as they do not want to be found by authorities. I have asked them to let me help them when they leave, that maybe we can combine them turning themselves in, with action against these companies that have sought to exploit them. When they return, they are going to try to publicise what has happened so that fewer Thais fall into the trap of these "agencies" who promise the world and then leave you and stranded.

To everyone that has offered help and advice (roygsd & bendix in particular) - thanks. At least I was able to clarify their legal situation for them.

I myself agree with some posters that feel immigration controls are necessary. However, that does not mean you have to feel angry with the unfortunate people of the world who seek out a better life for themselves and their families. They are only doing what most oif us would do in a similar situation.

How nice of you to provide assistance - whilst I too have sympathy for folk on a personal level - even unpaid (presumably?), it is still at least assisting with (if not actually engaging in) People Trafficking........of course we only have your word that it is an Adult couple you have been seeking assistance to hide and for the reasons you state........

Anyway, even taking things at face value (LOL), you're a braver man than me Gunga Din - especially given that the Internet is not quite as Anon as it used to be / folk think it is..........

What on earth was all that about. Have you even bothered to read the threads? It is not very often I get annoyed by posts on TV, but yours has to be about the most pathetic I have read to date. It is clear from your post what particular things are on your mind when you post!

[roygsd]

I am not sure if some of the critic's of this couple have chosen to ignore the fact that they did not enter the uk illegally, yes they are overstayers and whilst I understand that they are breaking our laws by doing so lets not loose sight of the fact that they had to ut their land in hock to get here and through no fault of their own ( as appears to be the case) they have been ripped off by their employers here in the uk.

Put yourself in their position for a moment, dont you feel sorry for the brits and others who have sunk thier savings (possibly more) into purchasing a home in spain and been conned by developers/agents and find themselves losing their homes due to strange land laws? This couple are in a very similar position and similarly are deserving of sympathy.

We all know these people cannnot go hope pennyless, it isnt right to break our laws but in their posiion we would all do the same I am sure.

My concern is to make sure that they have not fallen out of the fat into the fire.

RoyGSD

[Eff1n2ret]

"My concern is to make sure that they have not fallen out of the fat into the fire"

Sadly, I would suspect that is the most likely outcome.

I think Jersey UK was suggesting that the OP may have committed some offence by offering assistance to these people. The offences under S25 (as amended) of the 1971 Immigration Act are facilitation of illegal entry, which obviously does not apply to the OP, or "knowingly harbouring" an offender. I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for seeking or offering a bit of pro bono advice.

Whether it's right to assist the subjects of this thread is a matter for individual conscience. It's perfectly reasonable to suggest that assisting lawbreakers isn't right - it all comes back to the old chestnut about picking and choosing which laws to obey, and whether a genuine strongly-held opinion justifies disobedience.

[Charma]

Just to clarify - the advice I gave to this couple, having established that they would never be able to renew/extend their visa, was to go home. I had an option from another TV member to put them in touch with an employer in Norfolk, but on realising that this would have to be without a WP or Visa, decided that I did not want to arrange this or put the TV members friend in a position of illegal employment.

The jobs they took up north were found for them by someone else and I had no dealings with that. I still wish them well and hope that they can pay off the loan a get back home.

My issue with JerseyUK's post was more to do with his suggestions that I was either doing it for money or I am some sort of paedophile. I think this says more about his state of mind than mine!

[taxexile]

they are in the uk illegaly , working without a permit , possible taking jobs from those who are legally in the uk.

the person who has employed them is knowingly breaking the law and taking advantage of them , and what makes you think someone like that will give them a better deal than the last employer. he is using them as cheap labour to maximise his profits.

they gambolled their land on a chance to improve their lot , and they lost.

its hard luck , but thats gambolling for you.

to stake your home/ land was a stupid thing to do.

but it happens to thousands of people every day.

whilst i have some sympathy with them , i think they should return home , having learned a lesson , and having had some of their their country bumpkin naivety replaced with some hard earned experience.

the uk is too much of a soft touch these days , and when they eventually get caught , the taxpayer will have to foot the bill for the court case , the detention and the deportation........ multiply that by 20,000 cases and youve got enough money to treat 500 cancer patients , build a couple of childrens wards , etc.etc.etc........ but whats the use ...... the country is chock full of bleeding heart liberals who cant see what damage they are doing to the country in the long run.

[the scouser]

they gambolled their land....

Visions of bucolic bliss spring to mind.

Scouse.

[taxexile]

they gambolled their land....

Visions of bucolic bliss spring to mind.

Scouse.

oh fckety fck.

gambled then !

[Vulture]

Charma,

given that you have stated the owners of this restaurant are exploiting people wouldnt you agree that the correct thing for you to do now is serve them up to HM Revenue and Customs ?