British Don In Thailand Faces Deportation Call

[george]

British don in Thailand faces deportation call

LONDON: -- A British academic faces calls for his deportation from Thailand after dismissing one of the country's most coveted national treasures as a fake, a London daily said yesterday.

'Inscription One' - a 1m-high stone obelisk engraved on each of its four sides - is said to have been carved on the orders of King Ramkhamkaeng in 1292 and to depict an idyllic kingdom based in Sukhothai, the first capital of Siam.

But author Michael Wright, who has lived in Thailand for 45 years, has sparked outrage by writing in a Thai-language newspaper that the stone is a fake which was actually carved in the 19th century by Prince Mongkut.

Housed in the National Museum in Bangkok, the stone is officially recognised as the first use of the fiendishly complicated Thai script, according to the Daily Telegraph.

'Inscription One is national myth No. 1,' Mr Wright, a lecturer at Thammasat University, told the newspaper.

'As a piece of literature it's brilliant, but to take it as history is woefully ignorant. A modern person reading it with an open mind will find almost nothing that fits the 13th century but it's almost perfect for the mid-19th century.'

A former ruling party politician for Sukhothai has reportedly filed a criminal complaint against Mr Wright.

It alleges defamation of both King Ramkhamkaeng and Prince Mongkut, who went on to become King Rama IV.

'It doesn't bother me at all,' Mr Wright told the Daily Telegraph, adding that a ritual curse had had no ill effects on him.

-- AFP 2004-07-24

[plachon]

45 years........that would be a bit of a bummer of after all that time in LOS, eh?

Just hope he doesn't mention anything about Khunying Mo now.

[marquess]

Defamation, for expressing an opinion?!

[Richard W]

Is this suggestion as to who inistigated the inscription new? I haven't read the standard book on the issue, (The Ramkhamhaeng Controversy: Selected Papers, published by the Siam Society and with a forward by H.R.H. Princess Galyani Vadhana (the king's aunt).

The inscription seems to be viewed with extreme distrust in academic circles.

What's the alleged reason for faking the inscription? Is it that is was to help dispel any notion that Thais were uncivilised heathens unfit to govern themselves? I've heard that Bishop Pallegoix's dictionary of Thai was commissioned to help dispel that notion.

[Wie]

Defamation, for expressing an opinion?!

Excuse me, if Thailand says this artifact belongs to a certain century and has a significant history; all research should establish prove for these beliefs.

Research in in a country where people still will not cut their hair, finger nails on a wednesday may have similar relevance, any relationship with facts will be completely fictual and those who aim to establish relationships between history and Thai ancient artifcats may well be adviced that their research main focus should be on confirming popular beliefs. Or does the article suggest anything else?

Xin Wie

[Rinrada]

And it is still believed by many people that the "Turin Shroud" really did cover the body of Christ.

Carbon dating gave an answer to that one but when a belief is so fundamentally held it hard to shift and common sense tends to go out of the window.

Re:Khunying Mo....long time no hear but dont remember anything too negative about her.

She is still it seems held in high esteem (by K.wife anyway)although she K.w. will not cut her hair for any reason

Whats the score?

[Limbo]

'Inscription One is national myth No. 1,' Mr Wright, a lecturer at Thammasat University, told the newspaper.

'As a piece of literature it's brilliant, but to take it as history is woefully ignorant. A modern person reading it with an open mind will find almost nothing that fits the 13th century but it's almost perfect for the mid-19th century.'

A former ruling party politician for Sukhothai has reportedly filed a criminal complaint against Mr Wright.

Myths are functional and as such they become at due time part of history.

During the second halve of the 19th century nation-building took place in Europe. The borders between nations were almost fixated and the 'we-feeling' had to be substantiated. Statues of national heroes were erected, supported by enhancing literature, ceremonies, national holidays aso.

When historical research started, many of the heroes fell from their pedestal, but we still enjoy the statues. We still even understand and in most cases enjoy the idea behind the erection of the statues.

The 'Inscription One' is not only carved in the stone but also in the hearts of all good Thai people.

It is up to the Thai people to decide if the action of the politician is in line with the spirit of the Royal text.

[p1p]

One of the first things you need to learn, when living and doing business in Thailand, is not to criticise. The Thai are notoriously sensitive to anything which might seem to loose them face.

[marquess]

One of the first things you need to learn, when living and doing business in Thailand, is not to criticise. The Thai are notoriously sensitive to anything which might seem to loose them face.

Does that mean that if something is wrong, one must sit in silence so as not to critise? The gentleman was expressing and opinion. Should he have remained silent?

[plachon]

Re:Khunying Mo....long time no hear but dont remember anything too negative about her.

She is still it seems held in high esteem (by K.wife anyway)although she K.w. will not cut her hair for any reason

Whats the score?

About 8 years or more back, a young student of history at Chula (I think), wrote her MSc thesis on said Khunying Mo, and proposed that most of the present "facts" around this Khorat heroine were based on a 1960s film glorifying her, and that any hard and factual knowledge about this lady was very scarce indeed. Most of the legend and statue in NR centre had grown up since the film, and prior to this there was very little hoohah about this Thai "Boadicea".

Still, never ones to let facts get in the way of a good story, the poor Chula student was villified, cursed and run out of town by the good citizens of Khorat, and the legend and worship continues unrattled.

BTW, thought that even with carbon dating, the jury was still out on the Turin Shroud, so am off to do a google now.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is this suggestion as to who inistigated the inscription new? I haven't read the standard book on the issue, (The Ramkhamhaeng Controversy: Selected Papers, published by the Siam Society and with a forward by H.R.H. Princess Galyani Vadhana (the king's aunt).

The inscription seems to be viewed with extreme distrust in academic circles.

What's the alleged reason for faking the inscription? Is it that is was to help dispel any notion that Thais were uncivilised heathens unfit to govern themselves? I've heard that Bishop Pallegoix's dictionary of Thai was commissioned to help dispel that notion.

Well His Majesty's elder sister anyway. She is now 80

[Richard W]

H.R.H. Princess Galyani Vadhana (the king's aunt).

Well His Majesty's elder sister anyway. She is now 80

Sorry for the brain failure.

My point was that she appears to have sanctioned the presentation of arguments that the inscription was a fake.

Edited July 26, 2004 by dr_Pat_Pong

[Limbo]

One of the first things you need to learn, when living and doing business in Thailand, is not to criticise. The Thai are notoriously sensitive to anything which might seem to loose them face.

Galileo Galilei 'criticised' the opinion that the world is flat.

One of the first things he should have learned, is that you don't have another opinion than the Jesuits. Is this what you mean?

Science is about seeking the truth. Science is a tool.

Most people understand that it is better if a doctor knows the difference between brains and blatter.

It would be a strange world if science would not be based on facts but on opinions.

Not all Thai people think the same. It depends (as in all other countries of the world) on their background and education.

Your remark could be seen as insulting for many Thai people. As underestimating their intelligence.

[Sarawudt]

Galileo Galilei 'criticised' the opinion that the world is flat.

One of the first things he should have learned, is that you don't have another opinion than the Jesuits. Is this what you mean?

Science is about seeking the truth. Science is a tool.

I was thinking about this 'world is flat' topic myself too.

Science is indeed a tool, it just takes the Thai people a 'bit longer' then the rest of the world to understand this.

There are a lot of things going on in Thailand which farang do not understand, the meaning of dreams for instance. It's all not very scientific but just part of the culture.

[p1p]

One of the first things you need to learn, when living and doing business in Thailand, is not to criticise. The Thai are notoriously sensitive to anything which might seem to loose them face.

Galileo Galilei 'criticised' the opinion that the world is flat.

One of the first things he should have learned, is that you don't have another opinion than the Jesuits. Is this what you mean?

Science is about seeking the truth. Science is a tool.

Most people understand that it is better if a doctor knows the difference between brains and blatter.

It would be a strange world if science would not be based on facts but on opinions.

Not all Thai people think the same. It depends (as in all other countries of the world) on their background and education.

Your remark could be seen as insulting for many Thai people. As underestimating their intelligence.

Limbo,

My post was something of a generalisation, but it was true none the less.

When dealing with senior members of Thai society one needs to walk on egg shells. It is astounding how easily a simple statement or remark can get their backs up and make them feel they have lost face, either personally or as a nation. This can result in their enmity thereafter.

'Inscription One' has long been regarded as one of Thailand's major national treasures. Unfortunately, Michael Wright wrote about and debunked the long held, almost sacred beliefs about the stone in a very direct manner, which left no avenue for the Thai people to save face. This was compounded by the fact that he is not Thai. For a Farang to debunk such an important object is tantamount, almost, to Regicide. They therefore follow the national character by shooting the messenger, rather than taking note of the message.

If he had worded his offending article in an Asian manner and invited the Thai authorities to come to his conclusions themselves, there could have been no repercussions for him.

[Limbo]

Your remark could be seen as insulting for many Thai people. As underestimating their intelligence.

Limbo,

My post was something of a generalisation, but it was true none the less.

Yes, we are both right and we both know it.

C'est le ton qui fait la musique!

[dekestone]

As someone else a said, this is not a new issue in academic circles. Presumambly Wright has done his research and can back up his claims (not just an "opinion" if he can back it up with substantial evidence.)

Maybe someone will translate his article into English ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It is huff and puff on both sides. The ultimate outcome will be nil all. The provability, one way or the other, is not a possiblity

[marquess]

What concerns me, is that once again we have the old defamation laws being put into use at the drop of a hat. Let us allow the matter to be debated and the evidence weighed.

[falux]

What are you talking about? Of course, the world is a flat disc, and when you go over the border, you fall down to ######.